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Could someone PLEASE update this article with relevant NPOV information?
IMPROVE! IMPROOOOOOVEEE!!!! - 69.29.141.54
Think the POV's a bit over the top for a simple update. 153.2.246.32 07:33, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
I agree - I think this phrase in particular is biased: "In most denominations, infants are baptized before they can even know about Christianity. Other denominations, however, do not baptize infants forcing them to accept the faith for themselves."
As i am not experienced with Christianity, i cant edit to it usefully, but statements like "in the third world" definately need to be cleaned up. Please leave a message on my page if u need help in doing so. Thanks! Bhaveer 20:01, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
His information isn't so awful, but his writing style is atrocious, and he has all kinds of headings with nothing in them. Clamshop 18:05, 7 December 2006 (UTC) Clamshop
I have a PhD in religious studies and religious conversion is one of my fortes. I will try to improve this page which, yes, needs a lot of work. For now I have added some material on conversion from Islam to Christianity. I will try to gradually improve the rest of it too. Xphilosopherking ( talk) 15:36, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
This topic seems to overlap with the content of articles like Believer's baptism and Born again (among others). To try to flesh this article out would merely duplicate the work on those articles (in my opinion). I saw that an AfD failed for this article, but would a merge be possible? Pastordavid 09:51, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
I deleted the "Pre-Majority Conversion" section which read: "Several churches, such as the Catholic Church baptize children a few days after birth. Mennonites and other denominations reject this practice." I found it to be too underdeveloped. Ejectgoose 08:23, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm going to try and fix this page up a bit. Should I post the new content here in discussion before replacing the article or just go ahead and make changes? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Neffland ( talk • contribs) 21:02, 25 January 2007 (UTC).
I've substantially expanded the article, differentiating between reception through baptism and otherwise, and again differentiating between Churches with paedobaptism (most of them) and denominations with believer baptism. It would be nice if someone could contribute some details especially about the Orthodox Church and the mainline Protestant Churches. Lumendelumine 12:59, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
I've added the "Peer Review" tag to the banner above, and listed this on the WP Christianity Peer Review page. You can see my initial comments on the article there. I'll see what I can do in the next few days. Nswinton 14:07, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
I started a section called Conversion through "Relationship". The name could definitely be changed, I was going to say "Faith" but that seems to imply there is no faith involved in the baptism version (although this implies it doesn't involve relationship which isn't right either). Either way, it is just a stub. Please feel free to change or add. Akubhai 13:08, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
I don't know if that would be ideal, but it seems to me like there should be more clarity in the how and why of conversion to christianity in the mind of the potential/recent/longtime convert. Nswinton\ talk 16:09, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
Is there any way to have a caption show below an image besides having it formatted as a "thumb"? I think the image of Paul's conversion looks better ~275px, but the caption only shows with a mouseover at that size, and there's no links in the mouseover, obviously. Nswinton\ talk 14:21, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
This could be a very touchy subject, but I'm wondering if it'd be worth it to add a section on Speaking in Tongues or being "Filled with the Holy Spirit" to the article, as many people groups in Acts and in some demographics since have had both those occurences as they've "received the gospel" for the first time. I know this is a very controversial point of doctrine, and I'm not totally sure if it's worthy of mention in the article. Any thoughts? Nswinton\ talk 14:33, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
I have an issue with the phrase "Baptism's role in the biblical text was pivotal." It seems to violate NPOV or is atleast disputed by many Christians. From what I understand, Catholics and LDS require baptism, but I think more Protestant churches believe you can be a Christian and not have been baptized. Isn't this correct? Akubhai 15:57, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
I just undid the last edit by X451422. It added a lot of talk of conversion through baptism to the conversion through salvation section. I don't see what the point of that was. Please explain. Akubhai 15:44, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
> In terms of people converting from Islam, an Al-Jazeerah interview gave evidence that up to 6 million Africans leave Islam for Christianity every year.
This is not from a statistics poll or anything like that but what a person said on an interview to Al Jazeera. It is baseless and has no data supporting it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SakibArifin ( talk • contribs) 10:43, 30 May 2017 (UTC)
I have done my best to revise this article. I tried to use more relevant, well sourced, and neutral information that I can. I might still enact more edits to the article. It would be helpful if other editors could expand upon Protestant conversions and well as nontrinitarian conversions. Mooters 1563 ( talk) 5:15, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
Social scientists have shown great interest in the Christian conversion as a religious experience that believers describe as strengthening their faith and changing their lives. Christianization, defined as the "reformulation of social relations, cultural meanings, and personal experience in terms of (commonly accepted or supposed) Christian ideals", should be distinguished from conversion. Christianization is the broader cultural term, and typically has involved efforts to systematically convert an entire continent or culture from existing beliefs to Christianity
This is not what the source says. In fact, it's kind of the opposite of what it says. Plus, it's in the lead and social science isn't covered in the article - and it should be. I'm going to be changing that and probably making some other changes to this article accordingly. Just letting everyone know up front, please come here and yell at me here (or just talk) if there are any problems with anything I do. Jenhawk777 ( talk) 20:16, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
Text and/or other creative content from user talk:J Milburn was copied or moved into Talk:Conversion to Christianity. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
Hi Josh! I see that you are semi-retired so I am hoping you might be interested in helping me get my first FA article, I have just completely redone Conversion to Christianity and hope it's worthy, but I need expert advice. Jenhawk777 ( talk) 15:14, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
@ Jenhawk777: I still haven't read the article properly, but a quick thought occurs: the article now has a lot on the science of conversion (which is great) but it's perhaps light on 1) The history of conversion; and (relatedly) 2) Christian/theological/philosophical understandings of conversion. It strikes me that conversion stories are a big deal in the Bible itself (Saul/Paul being the obvious one) and conversion is very important to Christianity generally, as it's a proselytising religion (unlike plenty of others). So my guess is that we could do with something about conversion in the early church and then the spread of Christianity over the subsequent millennia (missionaries etc. -- the word missionary only appears once in the article, and it's in the title of a cited source) plus more on theological perspectives on conversion. But I'm here just guessing what I'd expect to see in the article, rather than recommending based on any deep knowledge of the relevant literature! It might be interesting to take a read of this enyclopedia article on conversion, which is recent, in-depth, focussed on Christianity, and written by a professor of religious studies. (By the way: Definitely citable as a reliable source. It's CC-licensed, but not sufficiently free for Wikipedia's purposes, sadly, so we can't copy-paste. Some people are of the view that encyclopedia articles should be cited sparingly as they are tertiary sources, but I don't necessarily share that view; the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, on which the St Andrews Encyclopaedia of Theology is based, is a fantastic source.) Josh Milburn ( talk) 07:50, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Conversion to Christianity article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article was nominated for deletion on December 7, 2006. The result of the discussion was KEEP. |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Could someone PLEASE update this article with relevant NPOV information?
IMPROVE! IMPROOOOOOVEEE!!!! - 69.29.141.54
Think the POV's a bit over the top for a simple update. 153.2.246.32 07:33, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
I agree - I think this phrase in particular is biased: "In most denominations, infants are baptized before they can even know about Christianity. Other denominations, however, do not baptize infants forcing them to accept the faith for themselves."
As i am not experienced with Christianity, i cant edit to it usefully, but statements like "in the third world" definately need to be cleaned up. Please leave a message on my page if u need help in doing so. Thanks! Bhaveer 20:01, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
His information isn't so awful, but his writing style is atrocious, and he has all kinds of headings with nothing in them. Clamshop 18:05, 7 December 2006 (UTC) Clamshop
I have a PhD in religious studies and religious conversion is one of my fortes. I will try to improve this page which, yes, needs a lot of work. For now I have added some material on conversion from Islam to Christianity. I will try to gradually improve the rest of it too. Xphilosopherking ( talk) 15:36, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
This topic seems to overlap with the content of articles like Believer's baptism and Born again (among others). To try to flesh this article out would merely duplicate the work on those articles (in my opinion). I saw that an AfD failed for this article, but would a merge be possible? Pastordavid 09:51, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
I deleted the "Pre-Majority Conversion" section which read: "Several churches, such as the Catholic Church baptize children a few days after birth. Mennonites and other denominations reject this practice." I found it to be too underdeveloped. Ejectgoose 08:23, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm going to try and fix this page up a bit. Should I post the new content here in discussion before replacing the article or just go ahead and make changes? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Neffland ( talk • contribs) 21:02, 25 January 2007 (UTC).
I've substantially expanded the article, differentiating between reception through baptism and otherwise, and again differentiating between Churches with paedobaptism (most of them) and denominations with believer baptism. It would be nice if someone could contribute some details especially about the Orthodox Church and the mainline Protestant Churches. Lumendelumine 12:59, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
I've added the "Peer Review" tag to the banner above, and listed this on the WP Christianity Peer Review page. You can see my initial comments on the article there. I'll see what I can do in the next few days. Nswinton 14:07, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
I started a section called Conversion through "Relationship". The name could definitely be changed, I was going to say "Faith" but that seems to imply there is no faith involved in the baptism version (although this implies it doesn't involve relationship which isn't right either). Either way, it is just a stub. Please feel free to change or add. Akubhai 13:08, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
I don't know if that would be ideal, but it seems to me like there should be more clarity in the how and why of conversion to christianity in the mind of the potential/recent/longtime convert. Nswinton\ talk 16:09, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
Is there any way to have a caption show below an image besides having it formatted as a "thumb"? I think the image of Paul's conversion looks better ~275px, but the caption only shows with a mouseover at that size, and there's no links in the mouseover, obviously. Nswinton\ talk 14:21, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
This could be a very touchy subject, but I'm wondering if it'd be worth it to add a section on Speaking in Tongues or being "Filled with the Holy Spirit" to the article, as many people groups in Acts and in some demographics since have had both those occurences as they've "received the gospel" for the first time. I know this is a very controversial point of doctrine, and I'm not totally sure if it's worthy of mention in the article. Any thoughts? Nswinton\ talk 14:33, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
I have an issue with the phrase "Baptism's role in the biblical text was pivotal." It seems to violate NPOV or is atleast disputed by many Christians. From what I understand, Catholics and LDS require baptism, but I think more Protestant churches believe you can be a Christian and not have been baptized. Isn't this correct? Akubhai 15:57, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
I just undid the last edit by X451422. It added a lot of talk of conversion through baptism to the conversion through salvation section. I don't see what the point of that was. Please explain. Akubhai 15:44, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
> In terms of people converting from Islam, an Al-Jazeerah interview gave evidence that up to 6 million Africans leave Islam for Christianity every year.
This is not from a statistics poll or anything like that but what a person said on an interview to Al Jazeera. It is baseless and has no data supporting it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SakibArifin ( talk • contribs) 10:43, 30 May 2017 (UTC)
I have done my best to revise this article. I tried to use more relevant, well sourced, and neutral information that I can. I might still enact more edits to the article. It would be helpful if other editors could expand upon Protestant conversions and well as nontrinitarian conversions. Mooters 1563 ( talk) 5:15, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
Social scientists have shown great interest in the Christian conversion as a religious experience that believers describe as strengthening their faith and changing their lives. Christianization, defined as the "reformulation of social relations, cultural meanings, and personal experience in terms of (commonly accepted or supposed) Christian ideals", should be distinguished from conversion. Christianization is the broader cultural term, and typically has involved efforts to systematically convert an entire continent or culture from existing beliefs to Christianity
This is not what the source says. In fact, it's kind of the opposite of what it says. Plus, it's in the lead and social science isn't covered in the article - and it should be. I'm going to be changing that and probably making some other changes to this article accordingly. Just letting everyone know up front, please come here and yell at me here (or just talk) if there are any problems with anything I do. Jenhawk777 ( talk) 20:16, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
Text and/or other creative content from user talk:J Milburn was copied or moved into Talk:Conversion to Christianity. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
Hi Josh! I see that you are semi-retired so I am hoping you might be interested in helping me get my first FA article, I have just completely redone Conversion to Christianity and hope it's worthy, but I need expert advice. Jenhawk777 ( talk) 15:14, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
@ Jenhawk777: I still haven't read the article properly, but a quick thought occurs: the article now has a lot on the science of conversion (which is great) but it's perhaps light on 1) The history of conversion; and (relatedly) 2) Christian/theological/philosophical understandings of conversion. It strikes me that conversion stories are a big deal in the Bible itself (Saul/Paul being the obvious one) and conversion is very important to Christianity generally, as it's a proselytising religion (unlike plenty of others). So my guess is that we could do with something about conversion in the early church and then the spread of Christianity over the subsequent millennia (missionaries etc. -- the word missionary only appears once in the article, and it's in the title of a cited source) plus more on theological perspectives on conversion. But I'm here just guessing what I'd expect to see in the article, rather than recommending based on any deep knowledge of the relevant literature! It might be interesting to take a read of this enyclopedia article on conversion, which is recent, in-depth, focussed on Christianity, and written by a professor of religious studies. (By the way: Definitely citable as a reliable source. It's CC-licensed, but not sufficiently free for Wikipedia's purposes, sadly, so we can't copy-paste. Some people are of the view that encyclopedia articles should be cited sparingly as they are tertiary sources, but I don't necessarily share that view; the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, on which the St Andrews Encyclopaedia of Theology is based, is a fantastic source.) Josh Milburn ( talk) 07:50, 5 September 2023 (UTC)