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This scenario reflects what often happens in real battles between 2 well organized armies.
Army x sends several battalions into territory controlled by army y. The weather is not clear, and army y is caught by surprise, and doesn't notice the incursion right away. Army x takes a few villages.
When army y notices the incursion, they send reinforcements to the area, and in the counter attack army x suffers heavy losses and is forced outside most of the villages they have entered.
Army x sends reinforcements, and manages to reenter most of the villages they entered before, and there are heavy casualties on both sides. Additional reinforcements from army y arrive, and again army x is expelled, this time with much heavier casualties. The battle persists in one or two of the attacked villages. Army y regains total control of most of the battlefields, with dozens of fallen enemy soldiers.
Meanwhile, some forces of army x succeeded passing through enemy lines to attain an area under their control, but besieged by army y.
News agency a, which relies on pro-army x media (they never listen to "terrorists"), reports that army x has made tremendous advances, describing the area controlled before army y counter-attacked, adding a little extra territory for good measure.
Map drawer b, relying on news agency a, quickly draws a new map, adding a little more for good measure. He always trusts news agency a, since he never listens to "terrorists" either.
News agency c, who tries to be impartial even though he doesn't really like army x, reports the situation after the first counter-attack by army y, which retook most of the villages.
News agency d, waits a while, and reports the situation during the second wave of attacks by army x. He doesn't trust "amateur videos", so he ignores the videos produced on the ground by various observers. He reports clashes in most villages, with army x in control of some.
Some observers on the ground later report that army y has regained control of almost all the villages, with clashes ongoing in the rest.
So of the various reporters, who is right ?
We could say they all are, although some exaggerate the situation according to their bias.
This is a typical situation in a real war.
So what is my point ?
This isn't a video game. In real war, fortunes can change quickly, and what is true at one moment can be far from true a few hours later.
Since we are supposed to be indicating the situation for readers who will likely be viewing our map a few hours or days later, we don't have to try to give minute-by-minute results. Our sources aren't that up to date. They often depend on info days or even a week out of date. So we should wait until a situation stabilizes before posting changes.
André437 (
talk) 12:15, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
We now have confirmed that Turkish ground forces crossed into Syria through Kobane border crossing and are on the way to Suleiman Shah tomb. According to Turkish source this involved at least 40 armored vehicles (photos showing also several tanks) and helicopter air support.
http://www.sanliurfa.com/mursitpinar-kapisinda-suleyman-sah-hareketliligi/1671429589/
This is unlikely last rotation of TSK in the tomb last year, this is combat intervention. Should we put up a tomb on a map and marked it as under control of Turkish troops / contested currently? EllsworthSK ( talk) 00:02, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
go ahead,i believe so,put turkey as Purplish red,to distinguish from Regime forces. Alhanuty ( talk) 00:50, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
But the tomb of Sulayman Shah is turkish territory and not syrian, so imho is a nonsense to put a new icon on the map, we should edit the background map instead (even if it would be a tiny dot) -- 8fra0 ( talk) 09:10, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
The 38 soldiers who had been guarding the tomb of Suleyman Shah, grandfather of the founder of the Ottoman Empire, were brought safely home. The tomb, which is on a site within Syria that Ankara considers sovereign territory, was relocated. Reuters And here on photos the Turkish soldiers fixing a flag in the new location of tomb Suleiman Shah on the Turkish-Syrian borders. Elijah J. Magnier So that it just the 700 Turkish sokdiers from Special Forces were used in the removing of Tomb Salesman Shah from ISIS territory. Elijah J. Magnier and here new location of the Tomb Suleiman Shah on the Turkish territory. Elijah J. Magnier Panoramio So that we dont need new mark on map. Hanibal911 ( talk) 11:20, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
What is the source for SAA having any sort of base there? Derik never had any actual military unit attached there, nor does any army base appears on sattelite images and Rumeilan has been overrun by YPG in 2012 as you can see here Robert Fisk report from Rumeilan where he sees YPG guarding it or here. There is also another source here [2]. EllsworthSK ( talk) 23:14, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
I agree on removing both, but if not possible at least the base on Derik, as the Syrian Regime doesn't have a base there for sure. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 177.16.154.30 ( talk) 10:40, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
186.116.23.131 ( talk) 12:36, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
From SOHR fighting is still ongoing around Hardatin. Should we mark it with a red half ring? Paolowalter ( talk) 20:03, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
SAA frontlines are still around Bashkuy and Dweir-AlZeitun..they`re not even close to Hrdatnin.the only change is that SAA recaptured northern part of Al-Malah farms yesterday while Malah village,southern Mallah and Arab-Sulum(between Handarat village and Arad Malah)totally under militants control..that`s the most recent update of frontlines.Rida Albasha (AlMayadeen reporter) is my friend,He informs me everything happens on the field neutrally every few hours via chat.If anyone wants confirmation,his news publishes in ElijahMagnier and many other credible pro/opp sources in twitter some hours later! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Xerxes92005 ( talk • contribs) 08:05, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
https://twitter.com/ColdKurd/status/569532093266587648 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Creepz55 ( talk • contribs) 16:36, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
Pro-kurdish source can't be used to show YPG advances. DuckZz ( talk) 16:38, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
Here is the location of the three claimed villages:
https://twitter.com/yunus4akca7/status/569568104411480064
According to local pro-govr source clashes are happening in the area between YPG and its al-Karama militia against Islamic State:
Enough for at least putting the villages in the map as contested?
186.116.23.131 ( talk) 18:49, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/22/us-mideast-crisis-syria-iraq-idUSKBN0LQ0RG20150222?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews. Alhanuty ( talk) 21:14, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
Some of the villages captured today by YPG in southeast and east of Tal Hamis are: http://ar.hawarnewsagency.com/%D8%AA%D8%AD%D8%B1%D9%8A%D8%B1-9-%D9%82%D8%B1%D9%89-%D9%81%D9%8A-%D8%B1%D9%8A%D9%81-%D9%82%D8%A7%D9%85%D8%B4%D9%84%D9%88/ Zahra: http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=36.583503&lon=41.434121&z=16&m=b Zahran: http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=36.641255&lon=41.579089&z=16&m=b Gassan: http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=36.549100&lon=41.420412&z=19&m=b Homs: http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=36.596341&lon=41.473694&z=18&m=b Hulwa: http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=36.803746&lon=41.588815&z=18&m=b Tal Tahin: http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=36.812514&lon=41.600064&z=17&m=b Roboskiye ( talk) 10:26, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
Pro opposition source reported that ISIS captured village of Tall Shamiram after clashes against YPG. Qasion news and that ISIS kill civilians and burn the Ashuryan Church in the town of Tall Tamer. Qasion news SOHR also reported that ISIS captured village of Ghabshah. SOHR Hanibal911 ( talk) 13:28, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
It claims regime forces come from north to liberate Tal Hamees, while ypg coming from south to also liberate Tal Hamees. http://www.almasdarnews.com/article/isis-stronghold-tal-hamees-besieged-sides/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.231.150.148 ( talk) 22:44, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
Also many many reports now online of assyrian militias in the area mobilizing.. and beheaders attacking assyrian civilians,women & children. Not sure if assyrians are working with kurds or damascus government?
Official statement of Syriac Military Council https://twitter.com/kovandire/status/569955779652014080 citing at least two other villages captured by IS today( Tel Hourmiz and Tel Tawil) that should be changed to black on map , but the same source says there are many others ...I think a large number of the Khabour River villages are now in IS hands...and about Tel Tamer itself: is it contested? Many reports of fighting inside the town, though not from a major source... Fab8405 ( talk) 23:52, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
I don't know if this is a reliable source, sure is not pro-IS...this map pretend to show the 10 villages on the Khabour River captured today by IS...if it's accurate, the villages should be Tal Tawil, Tal Shamiran( already edited), Tal Talla, Abu Tina, Tel Quran, Qabr Shamiya, Kharitha, Tal Makhatha, Tal Taal, Tal Hurmiz...here is the map, decide you what use to do of it https://twitter.com/rConflictNews/status/569988674064154624 Fab8405 ( talk) 00:33, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
Sources https://twitter.com/markito0171/status/570270448048574465 are suggesting that YPG/FSA have taken this village http://wikimapia.org/#lang=it&lat=36.656370&lon=38.781910&z=13&m=b , just 15 km west of Tall Abyad. Let's wait for more confirmations. -- 8fra0 ( talk) 17:49, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
Official Kataib Shamal page (FSA) said the same, "Their group captured Judajdah". DuckZz ( talk) 22:18, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
Since the town of Dabiq figures prominently in ISIS myth and destiny your map should reflect its exact location and footnote the religious, political, historical and millennial significance of the town. Your well read visitors will appreciate the attention drawn to this site as an area seen by ISIS as critical to its own future. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 100.36.116.81 ( talk) 17:46, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
ANHA (kurdish source) states that YPG has taken 22 villages from ISIS in south Qamislo here: https://twitter.com/dilkocer/status/569402740016877568 . Can anybody confirm this news? -- 8fra0 ( talk) 09:14, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
Sources are also reporting about a Peshmerga/YPG joint attack to villages near the border in east Hasakah: https://twitter.com/EjmAlrai/status/569490519677661184 -- 8fra0 ( talk) 14:35, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
Confirmed by SOHR, so the villages mentioned before can be edited I think. http://syriahr.com/en/2015/02/ypg-takes-control-over-20-villages-and-farmlands-in-al-hasakah/ -- 8fra0 ( talk) 15:01, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
Whoever edited the map got it wrong, the twenty liberated villages are around Xirbet Cihash not directly south of Qamishli.
186.116.23.131 ( talk) 18:13, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=36.817256&lon=41.682816&z=12&m=b
Here is Khaz'ah on the map. Salim and Tamim are to the right of this village. http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=36.582521&lon=41.666164&z=14&m=b&show=/30379066/Khaza-ah 46.239.121.121 ( talk) 22:48, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
From AlMasdar advances of SAA and YPG toward Tal Hamees. Khaz'ah is claimed to be under control of SAA, maybe is controlled by SAA and YPG. Paolowalter ( talk) 09:21, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
Damerji: http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=36.827510&lon=41.473764&z=17&m=b Tal Qarsa: http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=36.833251&lon=41.436433&z=18&m=b Shura: http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=36.811668&lon=41.395508&z=17&m=b Safiya: http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=36.845562&lon=41.625862&z=19&m=b Khirbat Bagh: http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=36.834896&lon=41.647671&z=19&m=b
Tamim: http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=36.578437&lon=41.623421&z=16&m=b Wael: http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=36.567874&lon=41.542675&z=16&m=b Taglab: http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=36.564996&lon=41.524887&z=16&m=b Rabia: http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=36.550940&lon=41.475486&z=18&m=b Roboskiye ( talk) 09:33, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
Al-Masdar is unreliable,and there is not any known presense of SAA there. for the status of the villages to the north of Tal Hamis,what should be done. Alhanuty ( talk) 17:38, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
http://ar.hawarnewsagency.com/%D8%AA%D8%AD%D8%B1%D9%8A%D8%B1-8-%D9%82%D8%B1%D9%89-%D9%88%D9%85%D9%86%D8%A7%D8%B7%D9%82-%D8%A7%D8%B3%D8%AA%D8%B1%D8%A7%D8%AA%D9%8A%D8%AC%D9%8A%D8%A9-%D9%81%D9%8A-%D9%85%D8%AD%D9%8A%D8%B7-%D8%AA%D9%84/. Alhanuty ( talk) 22:00, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
There is information that ISIS blew up the Lafarge Cement plant after taking all that can be carried from it. here Also here the pro opposition source reported that ISIS destroyed Lafraj concrete factory. here So maybe we need remove the Lafarge Cement plant from map if he actually was destroyed. Hanibal911 ( talk) 21:05, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
It's really weird and ridicouls showing this village contested in that area when YPG captured more than 70 villages in Tel-Hamis area also this village is show near Tal Hamis. here, here. Lindi29 ( talk) 15:44, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
A side note in the same area. Should there be a border border post located on the IS held road between Mosul and Raqqa just south of Tel Hamis here http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=36.252303&lon=41.306190&z=12&m=b&show=/9795241/Iraqi-border-posts-on-the-Syrian-border-. MesmerMe ( talk) 17:37, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
There are a number of villages that are shown as being beyond or right at the edge of the line used for the Syrian border such as Al-Hamman, Maydan, Ikbis, and a bunch near Kobane. Is this because there is a problem with the location map, or because they are marked incorrectly on this map? Banak ( talk) 11:09, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
May be some skilled editor could update the inactive front line between YPG controlled Afrin and rebels, between Turkish border and Nubl, based on my jan 22 map : [1]
The line of control is based on reliable information I got from a rebel fighter who stationed along that border 2 years ago. As there was no fighting between both parties for the lest 2 years, I think it is still OK. I noticed at least 2 names to change to green : Ziyara and Deir Jamal, but there may be others.
DeSyracuse ( talk) 15:04, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
What do you think who control the Minakh airbase ? Rebels or Al Nusra members ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by DuckZz ( talk • contribs) 17:24, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
Any update on the YPG advance in Kobani,especially inside Raqqa province. Alhanuty ( talk) 19:40, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
According to this guy with close links to jabhat al akrad he claims that Jabhat al akrad kurds controll tatmarash which is rebel held in this map. Also Deir jemal city is joint jabhat al akrad/YPG held but they let rebels use the countryside of deir jamal to target assad.
https://twitter.com/sergermed/status/560578422511259648 -- Creepz55 ( talk) 16:14, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
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Can we please change the label size for Dabiq .... line 185 from 0 to 85 so that the name for that village shows up on the map. That town is center to ISIS religion and I had a very hard time finding it on the map. This will help others to locate it.
63.171.234.11 ( talk) 16:31, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Some more info from AlMasdar. Al-Habariya contested and maybe Tel also Qareen. Paolowalter ( talk) 07:52, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
There are many hamlets of maybe 10 houses cluttering up the map. They have no military or strategic interest, even if they were at some time on or near the front lines. Hills near towns or cities or important highways might have strategic importance, but not these hamlets.
So I suggest that we remove all such points, and not add them in the future.
This came to my attention on investigation after a viewer questioned some villages placed outside Syria. Most of the dots I checked were not even big enough to be called a village.
I was looking in the Kobani area, but a similar density of dots appears in Daesh-controlled areas in northern Raqqa. This doesn't make much sense, since these areas are very sparsely populated. Many don't even have any roads on google maps, which means nothing more than dirt paths.
So what does everyone think ?
André437 (
talk) 04:38, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Agree .pyphon — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pyphon ( talk • contribs) 12:10, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
In general I agree, some areas in the deset or on the mountans in the norther province are overrepresented. They are unlikely to be quoted when they change control, therefore they stick for ever bringing little informaton to the map. Paolowalter ( talk) 13:26, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
I disagree. When a major offensive occurs, we will then have to go to the trouble to find the villages, reach a consensus, and then re-add the villages, hoping we have the right coordinates. It is better to leave them where they are, because you never know when they might become of 'strategic interest'. For example, if the Syrian Army advances east of Homs, you will have to show that advance. If the villages north of Raqqa become contested, by the YPG or perhaps American-backed moderate Syrian rebels, you will have to show that on the map. It is for that reason that I think they should be left, even if they are only 10 houses. Besides, you can always physically decrease their mark size on the map. 2601:0:B200:F7D9:119F:7E70:9C28:7947 ( talk) 22:53, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
The capture town of Tel Hamis was announced by the Kurdish YPG militia and confirmed by the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights. Reuters Hanibal911 ( talk) 15:23, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Pro-Kurdish reporter says that YPG is preventing government forces to join them. Same said by the kurdish reporter
Andre437 yes that is correct but EllsworthSK is suggesting that the SAA are not involved in the offensive which can not be true if YPG have barred them from entering the town .Reports of joint offensive and the fact that if barred from entering the town must mean they are nearby . Pyphon ( talk) 11:43, 28 February 2015 (UTC)pyphon
Tall Brak and its neighbouring villages was turned yellow with very weak sources. Can we calim for sure that ISIS does not control them anymore and SAA does not controle them either? Paolowalter ( talk) 16:24, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Pro-opp source confirming SAA advance in Hasaka https://twitter.com/archicivilians/status/571695911719473152. It does not state precisely where. Original source speaks about south of Qamishli Paolowalter ( talk) 16:30, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Pro-SAA source stating YPG is in control of Tal Brak while SAA controls Bahiyah to the southwest: https://twitter.com/SyrianLion_/status/571704498260992000
186.119.189.150 ( talk) 16:47, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
According to pro-Islamic State source
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1632426480323380&id=1418222505077113 clashes ongoing near Tal Brak in Tal Faras N of the city and this village which despite being roughly the size of Tal Brak is not marked in the map:
http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=36.708958&lon=41.102858&z=14&m=b
Tal Faras is already marked as yellow but I would suggest putting it contested too, along with the other.
186.119.189.150 ( talk) 17:30, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
I do not understand logic - using biased pro kurd source to show progress ypg and in this same time ignor pro gov and pro rebel source saying about saa offensive in this same region. It is very easy here to change black dots to yellow ( 217.99.113.146 ( talk) 19:11, 28 February 2015 (UTC))
Pro-govt media has stated SAA captured the following villages, near Tawarij area south of Qamishli: https://www.facebook.com/SyrianArabNewsAgencySana/posts/888252777863917
If you can provide coordinates they can be marked in the map.
186.119.189.150 ( talk) 20:18, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Also in https://twitter.com/search?q=%23hasakah&src=typd there are a list of villages taken by SAA and http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13931209000428 there is a list of viallges taken by SAA. Paolowalter ( talk) 21:36, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Also Al Masdar reports some villages taken by SAA. Di Paolowalter ( talk) 09:33, 1 March 2015 (UTC)d anybody locate them?
It seems that whenever YPG and its Assyrian and Arab allies gain a victory over ISIL the Assadists try to push themselves in and make out as if it was a joint operation. BTW, it's very very very unlikely that Coalition airstrikes would be supporting an operation in favor of SAA. Saeed alaee ( talk) 21:27, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Saeed alaee there are many sources from all sides that say YPG and SAA are in joint offensive against ISIS and as for airstrikes they are targeting JAN in Aleppo also which will obviously help SAA . Pyphon ( talk) 21:49, 28 February 2015 (UTC)PYPHON
According pro rebel map archicivilians many of villages in Qamishili area is still controling by ISIS and SAA progress in this area is not false ( 217.99.113.146 ( talk) 23:39, 28 February 2015 (UTC))
Many ISIS controlled locations were removed with little support from the sources. I guess that the lack of ISIS supporter between the editors has obscured out quest for reliability. We should review all recent changes and see which are reliable and which not. Furthermore many quick switch to yellow was done on purpose to avoid setting some of them red. Paolowalter ( talk) 09:33, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
SOHR confirms advance of SAA in Hasaka http://syriahr.com/en/2015/03/is-beheads-a-defected-first-lieutenant-in-deir-ezzor-while-the-regime-troops-retake-some-villages-in-al-hasakah/ on the road between Tal-brak and al-Qameshli. Paolowalter ( talk) 09:39, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
According to SOHR arabic SAA captured tell qareen , habbariyah ,tell sultaniyah ,khirbet sultaniyah and himrit source: http://www.syriahr.com/2015/02/%D8%AD%D8%B2%D8%A8-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%84%D9%87-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%84%D8%A8%D9%86%D8%A7%D9%86%D9%8A-%D9%8A%D8%B3%D9%8A%D8%B7%D8%B1-%D8%B9%D9%84%D9%89-4-%D8%A8%D9%84%D8%AF%D8%A7%D8%AA-%D9%88%D9%82%D8%B1%D9%89/ Hwinsp ( talk) 11:36, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Also document sy confirmed SAA captured tell qareen , habbariyah ,tell sultaniyah ,khirbet sultaniyah and himrit: https://www.facebook.com/documents.sy/posts/901068736622550 https://www.facebook.com/documents.sy/posts/901063536623070 Hwinsp ( talk) 11:40, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Al Masdar http://www.almasdarnews.com/article/syrian-army-hezbollah-advances-towards-rebel-held-daraa/ reports that Himrit, Al-Sultaniyah, Sibsiba and 5 villages altogether have been captured by SAA. Paolowalter ( talk) 13:09, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Pro rebel source confirm that Thomas van Linge about Himrit, Sultaniyah and Sabsabah ( 83.26.142.133 ( talk) 13:38, 28 February 2015 (UTC))
SOHR for Hamrit and Sasba http://syriahr.com/en/2015/02/7-rebels-killed-by-clashes-against-hezbollah-in-reef-dimashq/ as well. Paolowalter ( talk) 13:53, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
According to The statement of the General Command of the Armed Forces (SAA) SAA also captured tell al fatimah source: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=581994665236472&set=vb.236781613091114&type=2&theater Hwinsp ( talk) 17:48, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Thas is supported also by the new Petolucem map https://twitter.com/PetoLucem/status/571759910653992960. Paolowalter ( talk) 21:51, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
sohr arabic confirmed , tell al fatimah and sabsaba under saa control : http://www.syriahr.com/2015/03/%D8%AD%D8%B2%D8%A8-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%84%D9%87-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%84%D8%A8%D9%86%D8%A7%D9%86%D9%8A-%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%82%D9%88%D8%A7%D8%AA-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AF%D8%A7%D8%B9%D9%85%D8%A9-%D9%84%D9%87-%D9%8A/ Hwinsp ( talk) 22:46, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
From https://twitter.com/Damascus_01/status/571975879305404416 Rajm AlSayd was taken by SAA. Where is this town? Paolowalter ( talk) 20:28, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
Rasm al Sayd is located on the map at coordinates lat = 33.094, long = 35.909 and Rasm al Kharrar at coordinates lat = 33.091, long = 35.926, those places in wikimapia poin to http://wikimapia.org/#lang=it&lat=33.094000&lon=35.909000&z=14&m=b and http://wikimapia.org/#lang=it&lat=33.091000&lon=35.926000&z=14&m=b. Those positions are not obviously associated to villages. There are close Rasm al Halabai at lat = 33.093 and lon = 35.891 and Rasm al-Khawalid at lat = 33.113 and lon = 35.911. Does anybody understand the situation? Paolowalter ( talk) 21:23, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
Confirmed by Al Masdar but the location seems not to correspond to what we see on the map. I am puzzled. Paolowalter ( talk) 08:04, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
Rasm al sayd location acording to saa source: https://www.facebook.com/syriafutureagency/photos/pb.1416705415237221.-2207520000.1425287218./1577522569155504/?type=3&theater LOCATION : http://wikimapia.org/#lang=tr&lat=33.145241&lon=35.997562&z=13&m=b&gz=0;360088062;331574572;71239;71851;0;24789;79822;718;114154;5029;152778;57122;68664;71851 195.155.234.12 ( talk) 09:07, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
Hannibal they are same , source says ' Syrian army controls the Rasm al sayd area known as the Tel hunter. Rasm al sayd = Tel Hunter :) Hwinsp ( talk) 13:41, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
the news confirmed that these villages were captured by SAA during YPG advances in east of Hasakeh
Farfarat, Tal Ahmad, Khirbat Noura, Tafeehiyah, Khaznat, Sawama’ Al-Tawareej, Bayzari, Khirbat Zouman, Tal Assoud, Maqbrat Tal Assoud, Al-Bwaab, Tal Al-Fawqaani, and Tal Hamza
http://www.almasdarnews.com/article/al-hasakah-syrian-army-secures-13-villages-24-hours/ 2.180.12.44 ( talk) 10:19, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
Considering SOHR confirmed the SAA captured several villages in that area and we have Masdar naming some of them they should be marked as SAA-held. EkoGraf ( talk) 15:00, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
Tal Ahmad: http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=36.851054&lon=41.352196&z=12&m=b
Farfara: http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=36.821378&lon=41.333656&z=12&m=b
Tawarej&grain silos: http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=36.861768&lon=41.300697&z=12&m=b
190.67.227.234 ( talk) 16:02, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
Unfortunately SOHR doesn't say how many villages(it uses "some villages and farmlands") have been captured by SAA so we don't know if all the villages named by al-Masdar which is pro Regime are actually under the control of the SAA. I would suggest adding(or editing) the ones that are close to the SAA front-line and wait for additional reports. I also think the ones named by Masdar that are not close to SAA front should not be marked as YPG-held until we have more information about the situation. Saeed alaee ( talk) 16:54, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
From the ones I managed to find they're not only all close to the SAA frontline but include a couple of villages that are already marked as red (Tal Ahmad is marked red-yellow mixed so turn it red fully and Tawarij is already there too), probably as a result of an under-reported Daesh offensive.
190.67.227.234 ( talk) 17:04, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
List of villages control by SAA (SAA source)
[18] SAA and NDF + Arab Tribes are in control of 33 villages North East of Hasakah. 2 KM away from Tel Brek (
217.99.122.67 (
talk) 22:07, 1 March 2015 (UTC))
That source should be good enough for making those villages SAA controlled . Pyphon ( talk) 11:19, 2 March 2015 (UTC)pyphon
190.67.227 234 oh I am sorry I did not know source was pro-government may be we need more sources or we will be accused of bias . Pyphon ( talk) 12:25, 2 March 2015 (UTC)pyphon
Since the progress was confirmed by SOHR I think it's plausible to make use of this source -or almasdar- to edit the villages, but in order to reflect kurdish progress ANHA report should be taken in account too. More neutral sources should be used when editing villages claimed by both sides however. What do the rest of editors think about it?
190.67.227.234 ( talk) 12:38, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
SOHR confirmed the SAA captured 23 villages [19]. EkoGraf ( talk) 00:43, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
SOHR reported today that SAA has captured the 101 well and the adjacent 111 Hill. Clashes continue between ISIS and SAA near the 105 Well (the biggest and last well held by ISIS). [20] ChrissCh94 ( talk) 08:51, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
Why was Tel Brak and villages to the north recently re-marked as under ISIS control, when even pro-ISIS sources are admitting that the YPG took them yesterday and still control them today? (Some claim both YPG and SAA, but either way these places are no longer controlled by ISIS). Ryn78 ( talk) 21:06, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
I do not understand which chaneg to the map you suggest. Do you agree the change of Robosiye are not based on reliable sources? I do not think that the situation since 2nd March (day before yesterday) changed much. Is somebody willing to revert the changes I reverted already once? Paolowalter ( talk) 14:04, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
According to pro-government source: https://www.facebook.com/HASAKAHNEWS/posts/70788183599965 and pro-kurdish sources: https://twitter.com/ColdKurd/status/572822285838639105 https://twitter.com/sylezjusz/status/572776705309462528 YPG is clashing with ISIS in the area near the town of Khatuniyah, since there are no villages in between the ones YPG grabbed earlier and Khatuniyah, would a besieged from north icon suffice for the moment?
190.67.236.63 ( talk) 18:28, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
Another time someone change all city in north Hasakah to yellow... ( 217.99.142.124 ( talk) 20:33, 3 March 2015 (UTC))
This is the problem with editors adding tiny villages to the map without prior sources ,they never get mentioned again and get left behind .At some point we will have to change them with out a source which is not how it should work .Isuggest not adding any more villages unless reports state they have changed over control . Pyphon ( talk) 21:56, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
Paolowalter,stop being disrespectful to other editors here,you have disrespected multiple editors here,plus you have launched multiple personal attacks on alot of editors here,so you better refrain from such behavior. Alhanuty ( talk) 08:07, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
Robosiye used multiple sources for his edit,plus the situation on the ground is changing rapidly,and this happened before during ISIS offensive on Kobani,where multiple villages where turned to ISIS controlled. Alhanuty ( talk) 09:02, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
You all must understand there will not be any sources that mention some tiny villages there so the question is what should we do ? Pyphon ( talk) 16:44, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
According to Pro-regime source Mashrah is not contested just besieged in the northeren side. here. Lindi29 ( talk) 19:16, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
This region together with eastern Qalamun, especially the desert area isn't interesting for neutral sources. Everything here is pro-opposition.
According to Army Usud Shaqijah channels (Authenticity and development front), they captured Al Ulayanija and the areas around after IS withdrew from there. Here are some English pro-opposition sources, from arCivilian, also location explained here. I'm not sure about this guy but he only posts stuff that was published from the original rebel channels on Arabic.
I know, that's why i made a section here to discuss about that. I highly highly doubt there will be any more sources other that from pro-opposition channels. Mainly because these areas are deep inside the desert, nobody cares about that. DuckZz ( talk) 21:56, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
It is only a matter for discussion but associated with Syria. Many source said today that SAA air force hit and kill many high rank commanders reuters, EjmAlrai 18 JN killed Abu Omar al-Kurdi , Abu al-Bara' al-Ansari and Abu Mos'ab al Falastini Samir Hijazi Aka Abu Humam al-Suri Leith Abou Fadel 3 confirmed Al-Nusra leaders killed leader of Nusra's operations in the north and part of their central command 83.26.171.115 ( talk) 21:24, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
A video of the destroy building can be seen at ( myawesomedailyfinds )blog . Pyphon ( talk) 16:56, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
According regime source saa nad ndf take control in Ildib: Baydr Shamsou and Qarsaayah location here and in latakia Durin village and nearby Mount Duri [25] location here Now we wait for confirmation from other source 83.26.171.115 ( talk) 15:31, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
Durin mount and village taken by SAA AlMasdar. Comment: these areas is clutterd of too many dots: small villages, some of them now of little interest. Can we remove some of them? E.g. Tell Durin after conquer of Durin is of little use. Paolowalter ( talk) 08:15, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
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This scenario reflects what often happens in real battles between 2 well organized armies.
Army x sends several battalions into territory controlled by army y. The weather is not clear, and army y is caught by surprise, and doesn't notice the incursion right away. Army x takes a few villages.
When army y notices the incursion, they send reinforcements to the area, and in the counter attack army x suffers heavy losses and is forced outside most of the villages they have entered.
Army x sends reinforcements, and manages to reenter most of the villages they entered before, and there are heavy casualties on both sides. Additional reinforcements from army y arrive, and again army x is expelled, this time with much heavier casualties. The battle persists in one or two of the attacked villages. Army y regains total control of most of the battlefields, with dozens of fallen enemy soldiers.
Meanwhile, some forces of army x succeeded passing through enemy lines to attain an area under their control, but besieged by army y.
News agency a, which relies on pro-army x media (they never listen to "terrorists"), reports that army x has made tremendous advances, describing the area controlled before army y counter-attacked, adding a little extra territory for good measure.
Map drawer b, relying on news agency a, quickly draws a new map, adding a little more for good measure. He always trusts news agency a, since he never listens to "terrorists" either.
News agency c, who tries to be impartial even though he doesn't really like army x, reports the situation after the first counter-attack by army y, which retook most of the villages.
News agency d, waits a while, and reports the situation during the second wave of attacks by army x. He doesn't trust "amateur videos", so he ignores the videos produced on the ground by various observers. He reports clashes in most villages, with army x in control of some.
Some observers on the ground later report that army y has regained control of almost all the villages, with clashes ongoing in the rest.
So of the various reporters, who is right ?
We could say they all are, although some exaggerate the situation according to their bias.
This is a typical situation in a real war.
So what is my point ?
This isn't a video game. In real war, fortunes can change quickly, and what is true at one moment can be far from true a few hours later.
Since we are supposed to be indicating the situation for readers who will likely be viewing our map a few hours or days later, we don't have to try to give minute-by-minute results. Our sources aren't that up to date. They often depend on info days or even a week out of date. So we should wait until a situation stabilizes before posting changes.
André437 (
talk) 12:15, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
We now have confirmed that Turkish ground forces crossed into Syria through Kobane border crossing and are on the way to Suleiman Shah tomb. According to Turkish source this involved at least 40 armored vehicles (photos showing also several tanks) and helicopter air support.
http://www.sanliurfa.com/mursitpinar-kapisinda-suleyman-sah-hareketliligi/1671429589/
This is unlikely last rotation of TSK in the tomb last year, this is combat intervention. Should we put up a tomb on a map and marked it as under control of Turkish troops / contested currently? EllsworthSK ( talk) 00:02, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
go ahead,i believe so,put turkey as Purplish red,to distinguish from Regime forces. Alhanuty ( talk) 00:50, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
But the tomb of Sulayman Shah is turkish territory and not syrian, so imho is a nonsense to put a new icon on the map, we should edit the background map instead (even if it would be a tiny dot) -- 8fra0 ( talk) 09:10, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
The 38 soldiers who had been guarding the tomb of Suleyman Shah, grandfather of the founder of the Ottoman Empire, were brought safely home. The tomb, which is on a site within Syria that Ankara considers sovereign territory, was relocated. Reuters And here on photos the Turkish soldiers fixing a flag in the new location of tomb Suleiman Shah on the Turkish-Syrian borders. Elijah J. Magnier So that it just the 700 Turkish sokdiers from Special Forces were used in the removing of Tomb Salesman Shah from ISIS territory. Elijah J. Magnier and here new location of the Tomb Suleiman Shah on the Turkish territory. Elijah J. Magnier Panoramio So that we dont need new mark on map. Hanibal911 ( talk) 11:20, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
What is the source for SAA having any sort of base there? Derik never had any actual military unit attached there, nor does any army base appears on sattelite images and Rumeilan has been overrun by YPG in 2012 as you can see here Robert Fisk report from Rumeilan where he sees YPG guarding it or here. There is also another source here [2]. EllsworthSK ( talk) 23:14, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
I agree on removing both, but if not possible at least the base on Derik, as the Syrian Regime doesn't have a base there for sure. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 177.16.154.30 ( talk) 10:40, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
186.116.23.131 ( talk) 12:36, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
From SOHR fighting is still ongoing around Hardatin. Should we mark it with a red half ring? Paolowalter ( talk) 20:03, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
SAA frontlines are still around Bashkuy and Dweir-AlZeitun..they`re not even close to Hrdatnin.the only change is that SAA recaptured northern part of Al-Malah farms yesterday while Malah village,southern Mallah and Arab-Sulum(between Handarat village and Arad Malah)totally under militants control..that`s the most recent update of frontlines.Rida Albasha (AlMayadeen reporter) is my friend,He informs me everything happens on the field neutrally every few hours via chat.If anyone wants confirmation,his news publishes in ElijahMagnier and many other credible pro/opp sources in twitter some hours later! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Xerxes92005 ( talk • contribs) 08:05, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
https://twitter.com/ColdKurd/status/569532093266587648 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Creepz55 ( talk • contribs) 16:36, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
Pro-kurdish source can't be used to show YPG advances. DuckZz ( talk) 16:38, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
Here is the location of the three claimed villages:
https://twitter.com/yunus4akca7/status/569568104411480064
According to local pro-govr source clashes are happening in the area between YPG and its al-Karama militia against Islamic State:
Enough for at least putting the villages in the map as contested?
186.116.23.131 ( talk) 18:49, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/22/us-mideast-crisis-syria-iraq-idUSKBN0LQ0RG20150222?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews. Alhanuty ( talk) 21:14, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
Some of the villages captured today by YPG in southeast and east of Tal Hamis are: http://ar.hawarnewsagency.com/%D8%AA%D8%AD%D8%B1%D9%8A%D8%B1-9-%D9%82%D8%B1%D9%89-%D9%81%D9%8A-%D8%B1%D9%8A%D9%81-%D9%82%D8%A7%D9%85%D8%B4%D9%84%D9%88/ Zahra: http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=36.583503&lon=41.434121&z=16&m=b Zahran: http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=36.641255&lon=41.579089&z=16&m=b Gassan: http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=36.549100&lon=41.420412&z=19&m=b Homs: http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=36.596341&lon=41.473694&z=18&m=b Hulwa: http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=36.803746&lon=41.588815&z=18&m=b Tal Tahin: http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=36.812514&lon=41.600064&z=17&m=b Roboskiye ( talk) 10:26, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
Pro opposition source reported that ISIS captured village of Tall Shamiram after clashes against YPG. Qasion news and that ISIS kill civilians and burn the Ashuryan Church in the town of Tall Tamer. Qasion news SOHR also reported that ISIS captured village of Ghabshah. SOHR Hanibal911 ( talk) 13:28, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
It claims regime forces come from north to liberate Tal Hamees, while ypg coming from south to also liberate Tal Hamees. http://www.almasdarnews.com/article/isis-stronghold-tal-hamees-besieged-sides/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.231.150.148 ( talk) 22:44, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
Also many many reports now online of assyrian militias in the area mobilizing.. and beheaders attacking assyrian civilians,women & children. Not sure if assyrians are working with kurds or damascus government?
Official statement of Syriac Military Council https://twitter.com/kovandire/status/569955779652014080 citing at least two other villages captured by IS today( Tel Hourmiz and Tel Tawil) that should be changed to black on map , but the same source says there are many others ...I think a large number of the Khabour River villages are now in IS hands...and about Tel Tamer itself: is it contested? Many reports of fighting inside the town, though not from a major source... Fab8405 ( talk) 23:52, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
I don't know if this is a reliable source, sure is not pro-IS...this map pretend to show the 10 villages on the Khabour River captured today by IS...if it's accurate, the villages should be Tal Tawil, Tal Shamiran( already edited), Tal Talla, Abu Tina, Tel Quran, Qabr Shamiya, Kharitha, Tal Makhatha, Tal Taal, Tal Hurmiz...here is the map, decide you what use to do of it https://twitter.com/rConflictNews/status/569988674064154624 Fab8405 ( talk) 00:33, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
Sources https://twitter.com/markito0171/status/570270448048574465 are suggesting that YPG/FSA have taken this village http://wikimapia.org/#lang=it&lat=36.656370&lon=38.781910&z=13&m=b , just 15 km west of Tall Abyad. Let's wait for more confirmations. -- 8fra0 ( talk) 17:49, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
Official Kataib Shamal page (FSA) said the same, "Their group captured Judajdah". DuckZz ( talk) 22:18, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
Since the town of Dabiq figures prominently in ISIS myth and destiny your map should reflect its exact location and footnote the religious, political, historical and millennial significance of the town. Your well read visitors will appreciate the attention drawn to this site as an area seen by ISIS as critical to its own future. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 100.36.116.81 ( talk) 17:46, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
ANHA (kurdish source) states that YPG has taken 22 villages from ISIS in south Qamislo here: https://twitter.com/dilkocer/status/569402740016877568 . Can anybody confirm this news? -- 8fra0 ( talk) 09:14, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
Sources are also reporting about a Peshmerga/YPG joint attack to villages near the border in east Hasakah: https://twitter.com/EjmAlrai/status/569490519677661184 -- 8fra0 ( talk) 14:35, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
Confirmed by SOHR, so the villages mentioned before can be edited I think. http://syriahr.com/en/2015/02/ypg-takes-control-over-20-villages-and-farmlands-in-al-hasakah/ -- 8fra0 ( talk) 15:01, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
Whoever edited the map got it wrong, the twenty liberated villages are around Xirbet Cihash not directly south of Qamishli.
186.116.23.131 ( talk) 18:13, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=36.817256&lon=41.682816&z=12&m=b
Here is Khaz'ah on the map. Salim and Tamim are to the right of this village. http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=36.582521&lon=41.666164&z=14&m=b&show=/30379066/Khaza-ah 46.239.121.121 ( talk) 22:48, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
From AlMasdar advances of SAA and YPG toward Tal Hamees. Khaz'ah is claimed to be under control of SAA, maybe is controlled by SAA and YPG. Paolowalter ( talk) 09:21, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
Damerji: http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=36.827510&lon=41.473764&z=17&m=b Tal Qarsa: http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=36.833251&lon=41.436433&z=18&m=b Shura: http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=36.811668&lon=41.395508&z=17&m=b Safiya: http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=36.845562&lon=41.625862&z=19&m=b Khirbat Bagh: http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=36.834896&lon=41.647671&z=19&m=b
Tamim: http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=36.578437&lon=41.623421&z=16&m=b Wael: http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=36.567874&lon=41.542675&z=16&m=b Taglab: http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=36.564996&lon=41.524887&z=16&m=b Rabia: http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=36.550940&lon=41.475486&z=18&m=b Roboskiye ( talk) 09:33, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
Al-Masdar is unreliable,and there is not any known presense of SAA there. for the status of the villages to the north of Tal Hamis,what should be done. Alhanuty ( talk) 17:38, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
http://ar.hawarnewsagency.com/%D8%AA%D8%AD%D8%B1%D9%8A%D8%B1-8-%D9%82%D8%B1%D9%89-%D9%88%D9%85%D9%86%D8%A7%D8%B7%D9%82-%D8%A7%D8%B3%D8%AA%D8%B1%D8%A7%D8%AA%D9%8A%D8%AC%D9%8A%D8%A9-%D9%81%D9%8A-%D9%85%D8%AD%D9%8A%D8%B7-%D8%AA%D9%84/. Alhanuty ( talk) 22:00, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
There is information that ISIS blew up the Lafarge Cement plant after taking all that can be carried from it. here Also here the pro opposition source reported that ISIS destroyed Lafraj concrete factory. here So maybe we need remove the Lafarge Cement plant from map if he actually was destroyed. Hanibal911 ( talk) 21:05, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
It's really weird and ridicouls showing this village contested in that area when YPG captured more than 70 villages in Tel-Hamis area also this village is show near Tal Hamis. here, here. Lindi29 ( talk) 15:44, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
A side note in the same area. Should there be a border border post located on the IS held road between Mosul and Raqqa just south of Tel Hamis here http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=36.252303&lon=41.306190&z=12&m=b&show=/9795241/Iraqi-border-posts-on-the-Syrian-border-. MesmerMe ( talk) 17:37, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
There are a number of villages that are shown as being beyond or right at the edge of the line used for the Syrian border such as Al-Hamman, Maydan, Ikbis, and a bunch near Kobane. Is this because there is a problem with the location map, or because they are marked incorrectly on this map? Banak ( talk) 11:09, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
May be some skilled editor could update the inactive front line between YPG controlled Afrin and rebels, between Turkish border and Nubl, based on my jan 22 map : [1]
The line of control is based on reliable information I got from a rebel fighter who stationed along that border 2 years ago. As there was no fighting between both parties for the lest 2 years, I think it is still OK. I noticed at least 2 names to change to green : Ziyara and Deir Jamal, but there may be others.
DeSyracuse ( talk) 15:04, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
What do you think who control the Minakh airbase ? Rebels or Al Nusra members ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by DuckZz ( talk • contribs) 17:24, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
Any update on the YPG advance in Kobani,especially inside Raqqa province. Alhanuty ( talk) 19:40, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
According to this guy with close links to jabhat al akrad he claims that Jabhat al akrad kurds controll tatmarash which is rebel held in this map. Also Deir jemal city is joint jabhat al akrad/YPG held but they let rebels use the countryside of deir jamal to target assad.
https://twitter.com/sergermed/status/560578422511259648 -- Creepz55 ( talk) 16:14, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
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Can we please change the label size for Dabiq .... line 185 from 0 to 85 so that the name for that village shows up on the map. That town is center to ISIS religion and I had a very hard time finding it on the map. This will help others to locate it.
63.171.234.11 ( talk) 16:31, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Some more info from AlMasdar. Al-Habariya contested and maybe Tel also Qareen. Paolowalter ( talk) 07:52, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
There are many hamlets of maybe 10 houses cluttering up the map. They have no military or strategic interest, even if they were at some time on or near the front lines. Hills near towns or cities or important highways might have strategic importance, but not these hamlets.
So I suggest that we remove all such points, and not add them in the future.
This came to my attention on investigation after a viewer questioned some villages placed outside Syria. Most of the dots I checked were not even big enough to be called a village.
I was looking in the Kobani area, but a similar density of dots appears in Daesh-controlled areas in northern Raqqa. This doesn't make much sense, since these areas are very sparsely populated. Many don't even have any roads on google maps, which means nothing more than dirt paths.
So what does everyone think ?
André437 (
talk) 04:38, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Agree .pyphon — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pyphon ( talk • contribs) 12:10, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
In general I agree, some areas in the deset or on the mountans in the norther province are overrepresented. They are unlikely to be quoted when they change control, therefore they stick for ever bringing little informaton to the map. Paolowalter ( talk) 13:26, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
I disagree. When a major offensive occurs, we will then have to go to the trouble to find the villages, reach a consensus, and then re-add the villages, hoping we have the right coordinates. It is better to leave them where they are, because you never know when they might become of 'strategic interest'. For example, if the Syrian Army advances east of Homs, you will have to show that advance. If the villages north of Raqqa become contested, by the YPG or perhaps American-backed moderate Syrian rebels, you will have to show that on the map. It is for that reason that I think they should be left, even if they are only 10 houses. Besides, you can always physically decrease their mark size on the map. 2601:0:B200:F7D9:119F:7E70:9C28:7947 ( talk) 22:53, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
The capture town of Tel Hamis was announced by the Kurdish YPG militia and confirmed by the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights. Reuters Hanibal911 ( talk) 15:23, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Pro-Kurdish reporter says that YPG is preventing government forces to join them. Same said by the kurdish reporter
Andre437 yes that is correct but EllsworthSK is suggesting that the SAA are not involved in the offensive which can not be true if YPG have barred them from entering the town .Reports of joint offensive and the fact that if barred from entering the town must mean they are nearby . Pyphon ( talk) 11:43, 28 February 2015 (UTC)pyphon
Tall Brak and its neighbouring villages was turned yellow with very weak sources. Can we calim for sure that ISIS does not control them anymore and SAA does not controle them either? Paolowalter ( talk) 16:24, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Pro-opp source confirming SAA advance in Hasaka https://twitter.com/archicivilians/status/571695911719473152. It does not state precisely where. Original source speaks about south of Qamishli Paolowalter ( talk) 16:30, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Pro-SAA source stating YPG is in control of Tal Brak while SAA controls Bahiyah to the southwest: https://twitter.com/SyrianLion_/status/571704498260992000
186.119.189.150 ( talk) 16:47, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
According to pro-Islamic State source
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1632426480323380&id=1418222505077113 clashes ongoing near Tal Brak in Tal Faras N of the city and this village which despite being roughly the size of Tal Brak is not marked in the map:
http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=36.708958&lon=41.102858&z=14&m=b
Tal Faras is already marked as yellow but I would suggest putting it contested too, along with the other.
186.119.189.150 ( talk) 17:30, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
I do not understand logic - using biased pro kurd source to show progress ypg and in this same time ignor pro gov and pro rebel source saying about saa offensive in this same region. It is very easy here to change black dots to yellow ( 217.99.113.146 ( talk) 19:11, 28 February 2015 (UTC))
Pro-govt media has stated SAA captured the following villages, near Tawarij area south of Qamishli: https://www.facebook.com/SyrianArabNewsAgencySana/posts/888252777863917
If you can provide coordinates they can be marked in the map.
186.119.189.150 ( talk) 20:18, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Also in https://twitter.com/search?q=%23hasakah&src=typd there are a list of villages taken by SAA and http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13931209000428 there is a list of viallges taken by SAA. Paolowalter ( talk) 21:36, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Also Al Masdar reports some villages taken by SAA. Di Paolowalter ( talk) 09:33, 1 March 2015 (UTC)d anybody locate them?
It seems that whenever YPG and its Assyrian and Arab allies gain a victory over ISIL the Assadists try to push themselves in and make out as if it was a joint operation. BTW, it's very very very unlikely that Coalition airstrikes would be supporting an operation in favor of SAA. Saeed alaee ( talk) 21:27, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Saeed alaee there are many sources from all sides that say YPG and SAA are in joint offensive against ISIS and as for airstrikes they are targeting JAN in Aleppo also which will obviously help SAA . Pyphon ( talk) 21:49, 28 February 2015 (UTC)PYPHON
According pro rebel map archicivilians many of villages in Qamishili area is still controling by ISIS and SAA progress in this area is not false ( 217.99.113.146 ( talk) 23:39, 28 February 2015 (UTC))
Many ISIS controlled locations were removed with little support from the sources. I guess that the lack of ISIS supporter between the editors has obscured out quest for reliability. We should review all recent changes and see which are reliable and which not. Furthermore many quick switch to yellow was done on purpose to avoid setting some of them red. Paolowalter ( talk) 09:33, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
SOHR confirms advance of SAA in Hasaka http://syriahr.com/en/2015/03/is-beheads-a-defected-first-lieutenant-in-deir-ezzor-while-the-regime-troops-retake-some-villages-in-al-hasakah/ on the road between Tal-brak and al-Qameshli. Paolowalter ( talk) 09:39, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
According to SOHR arabic SAA captured tell qareen , habbariyah ,tell sultaniyah ,khirbet sultaniyah and himrit source: http://www.syriahr.com/2015/02/%D8%AD%D8%B2%D8%A8-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%84%D9%87-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%84%D8%A8%D9%86%D8%A7%D9%86%D9%8A-%D9%8A%D8%B3%D9%8A%D8%B7%D8%B1-%D8%B9%D9%84%D9%89-4-%D8%A8%D9%84%D8%AF%D8%A7%D8%AA-%D9%88%D9%82%D8%B1%D9%89/ Hwinsp ( talk) 11:36, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Also document sy confirmed SAA captured tell qareen , habbariyah ,tell sultaniyah ,khirbet sultaniyah and himrit: https://www.facebook.com/documents.sy/posts/901068736622550 https://www.facebook.com/documents.sy/posts/901063536623070 Hwinsp ( talk) 11:40, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Al Masdar http://www.almasdarnews.com/article/syrian-army-hezbollah-advances-towards-rebel-held-daraa/ reports that Himrit, Al-Sultaniyah, Sibsiba and 5 villages altogether have been captured by SAA. Paolowalter ( talk) 13:09, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Pro rebel source confirm that Thomas van Linge about Himrit, Sultaniyah and Sabsabah ( 83.26.142.133 ( talk) 13:38, 28 February 2015 (UTC))
SOHR for Hamrit and Sasba http://syriahr.com/en/2015/02/7-rebels-killed-by-clashes-against-hezbollah-in-reef-dimashq/ as well. Paolowalter ( talk) 13:53, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
According to The statement of the General Command of the Armed Forces (SAA) SAA also captured tell al fatimah source: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=581994665236472&set=vb.236781613091114&type=2&theater Hwinsp ( talk) 17:48, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Thas is supported also by the new Petolucem map https://twitter.com/PetoLucem/status/571759910653992960. Paolowalter ( talk) 21:51, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
sohr arabic confirmed , tell al fatimah and sabsaba under saa control : http://www.syriahr.com/2015/03/%D8%AD%D8%B2%D8%A8-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%84%D9%87-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%84%D8%A8%D9%86%D8%A7%D9%86%D9%8A-%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%82%D9%88%D8%A7%D8%AA-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AF%D8%A7%D8%B9%D9%85%D8%A9-%D9%84%D9%87-%D9%8A/ Hwinsp ( talk) 22:46, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
From https://twitter.com/Damascus_01/status/571975879305404416 Rajm AlSayd was taken by SAA. Where is this town? Paolowalter ( talk) 20:28, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
Rasm al Sayd is located on the map at coordinates lat = 33.094, long = 35.909 and Rasm al Kharrar at coordinates lat = 33.091, long = 35.926, those places in wikimapia poin to http://wikimapia.org/#lang=it&lat=33.094000&lon=35.909000&z=14&m=b and http://wikimapia.org/#lang=it&lat=33.091000&lon=35.926000&z=14&m=b. Those positions are not obviously associated to villages. There are close Rasm al Halabai at lat = 33.093 and lon = 35.891 and Rasm al-Khawalid at lat = 33.113 and lon = 35.911. Does anybody understand the situation? Paolowalter ( talk) 21:23, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
Confirmed by Al Masdar but the location seems not to correspond to what we see on the map. I am puzzled. Paolowalter ( talk) 08:04, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
Rasm al sayd location acording to saa source: https://www.facebook.com/syriafutureagency/photos/pb.1416705415237221.-2207520000.1425287218./1577522569155504/?type=3&theater LOCATION : http://wikimapia.org/#lang=tr&lat=33.145241&lon=35.997562&z=13&m=b&gz=0;360088062;331574572;71239;71851;0;24789;79822;718;114154;5029;152778;57122;68664;71851 195.155.234.12 ( talk) 09:07, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
Hannibal they are same , source says ' Syrian army controls the Rasm al sayd area known as the Tel hunter. Rasm al sayd = Tel Hunter :) Hwinsp ( talk) 13:41, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
the news confirmed that these villages were captured by SAA during YPG advances in east of Hasakeh
Farfarat, Tal Ahmad, Khirbat Noura, Tafeehiyah, Khaznat, Sawama’ Al-Tawareej, Bayzari, Khirbat Zouman, Tal Assoud, Maqbrat Tal Assoud, Al-Bwaab, Tal Al-Fawqaani, and Tal Hamza
http://www.almasdarnews.com/article/al-hasakah-syrian-army-secures-13-villages-24-hours/ 2.180.12.44 ( talk) 10:19, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
Considering SOHR confirmed the SAA captured several villages in that area and we have Masdar naming some of them they should be marked as SAA-held. EkoGraf ( talk) 15:00, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
Tal Ahmad: http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=36.851054&lon=41.352196&z=12&m=b
Farfara: http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=36.821378&lon=41.333656&z=12&m=b
Tawarej&grain silos: http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=36.861768&lon=41.300697&z=12&m=b
190.67.227.234 ( talk) 16:02, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
Unfortunately SOHR doesn't say how many villages(it uses "some villages and farmlands") have been captured by SAA so we don't know if all the villages named by al-Masdar which is pro Regime are actually under the control of the SAA. I would suggest adding(or editing) the ones that are close to the SAA front-line and wait for additional reports. I also think the ones named by Masdar that are not close to SAA front should not be marked as YPG-held until we have more information about the situation. Saeed alaee ( talk) 16:54, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
From the ones I managed to find they're not only all close to the SAA frontline but include a couple of villages that are already marked as red (Tal Ahmad is marked red-yellow mixed so turn it red fully and Tawarij is already there too), probably as a result of an under-reported Daesh offensive.
190.67.227.234 ( talk) 17:04, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
List of villages control by SAA (SAA source)
[18] SAA and NDF + Arab Tribes are in control of 33 villages North East of Hasakah. 2 KM away from Tel Brek (
217.99.122.67 (
talk) 22:07, 1 March 2015 (UTC))
That source should be good enough for making those villages SAA controlled . Pyphon ( talk) 11:19, 2 March 2015 (UTC)pyphon
190.67.227 234 oh I am sorry I did not know source was pro-government may be we need more sources or we will be accused of bias . Pyphon ( talk) 12:25, 2 March 2015 (UTC)pyphon
Since the progress was confirmed by SOHR I think it's plausible to make use of this source -or almasdar- to edit the villages, but in order to reflect kurdish progress ANHA report should be taken in account too. More neutral sources should be used when editing villages claimed by both sides however. What do the rest of editors think about it?
190.67.227.234 ( talk) 12:38, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
SOHR confirmed the SAA captured 23 villages [19]. EkoGraf ( talk) 00:43, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
SOHR reported today that SAA has captured the 101 well and the adjacent 111 Hill. Clashes continue between ISIS and SAA near the 105 Well (the biggest and last well held by ISIS). [20] ChrissCh94 ( talk) 08:51, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
Why was Tel Brak and villages to the north recently re-marked as under ISIS control, when even pro-ISIS sources are admitting that the YPG took them yesterday and still control them today? (Some claim both YPG and SAA, but either way these places are no longer controlled by ISIS). Ryn78 ( talk) 21:06, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
I do not understand which chaneg to the map you suggest. Do you agree the change of Robosiye are not based on reliable sources? I do not think that the situation since 2nd March (day before yesterday) changed much. Is somebody willing to revert the changes I reverted already once? Paolowalter ( talk) 14:04, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
According to pro-government source: https://www.facebook.com/HASAKAHNEWS/posts/70788183599965 and pro-kurdish sources: https://twitter.com/ColdKurd/status/572822285838639105 https://twitter.com/sylezjusz/status/572776705309462528 YPG is clashing with ISIS in the area near the town of Khatuniyah, since there are no villages in between the ones YPG grabbed earlier and Khatuniyah, would a besieged from north icon suffice for the moment?
190.67.236.63 ( talk) 18:28, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
Another time someone change all city in north Hasakah to yellow... ( 217.99.142.124 ( talk) 20:33, 3 March 2015 (UTC))
This is the problem with editors adding tiny villages to the map without prior sources ,they never get mentioned again and get left behind .At some point we will have to change them with out a source which is not how it should work .Isuggest not adding any more villages unless reports state they have changed over control . Pyphon ( talk) 21:56, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
Paolowalter,stop being disrespectful to other editors here,you have disrespected multiple editors here,plus you have launched multiple personal attacks on alot of editors here,so you better refrain from such behavior. Alhanuty ( talk) 08:07, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
Robosiye used multiple sources for his edit,plus the situation on the ground is changing rapidly,and this happened before during ISIS offensive on Kobani,where multiple villages where turned to ISIS controlled. Alhanuty ( talk) 09:02, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
You all must understand there will not be any sources that mention some tiny villages there so the question is what should we do ? Pyphon ( talk) 16:44, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
According to Pro-regime source Mashrah is not contested just besieged in the northeren side. here. Lindi29 ( talk) 19:16, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
This region together with eastern Qalamun, especially the desert area isn't interesting for neutral sources. Everything here is pro-opposition.
According to Army Usud Shaqijah channels (Authenticity and development front), they captured Al Ulayanija and the areas around after IS withdrew from there. Here are some English pro-opposition sources, from arCivilian, also location explained here. I'm not sure about this guy but he only posts stuff that was published from the original rebel channels on Arabic.
I know, that's why i made a section here to discuss about that. I highly highly doubt there will be any more sources other that from pro-opposition channels. Mainly because these areas are deep inside the desert, nobody cares about that. DuckZz ( talk) 21:56, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
It is only a matter for discussion but associated with Syria. Many source said today that SAA air force hit and kill many high rank commanders reuters, EjmAlrai 18 JN killed Abu Omar al-Kurdi , Abu al-Bara' al-Ansari and Abu Mos'ab al Falastini Samir Hijazi Aka Abu Humam al-Suri Leith Abou Fadel 3 confirmed Al-Nusra leaders killed leader of Nusra's operations in the north and part of their central command 83.26.171.115 ( talk) 21:24, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
A video of the destroy building can be seen at ( myawesomedailyfinds )blog . Pyphon ( talk) 16:56, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
According regime source saa nad ndf take control in Ildib: Baydr Shamsou and Qarsaayah location here and in latakia Durin village and nearby Mount Duri [25] location here Now we wait for confirmation from other source 83.26.171.115 ( talk) 15:31, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
Durin mount and village taken by SAA AlMasdar. Comment: these areas is clutterd of too many dots: small villages, some of them now of little interest. Can we remove some of them? E.g. Tell Durin after conquer of Durin is of little use. Paolowalter ( talk) 08:15, 6 March 2015 (UTC)