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IS has started a large offensive in Qamishli-region tonight! According to SOHR and other sources 4 villages and several checkpoints already taken, IS is 15 kilometers southeast of the city! Looks like SAA and YPG were totally surprised and thus were overrun 79.233.56.226 ( talk) 13:22, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
Daily Star quoting SOHR on IS offensive Boredwhytekid ( talk) 13:36, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
According to this [1] report by SOHR the clashes in abu-qasayib area are between YPG and ISIL not Rgime and ISIL and also there are clashes taking place between YPG and NDF. Saeed alaee ( talk) 15:06, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
I think turning all the villages -even ones controlled by kurds AND islamists- contested between SAA-IS seems rushed, this offensive was started by IS against both YPG and SAA and most of the reports (SOHR, PetoLucem, SANA, Hawarnews, pro-IS twitters) indicate clashes centered in Abu Qasayeb and Tal Gazal with all three parties participating, while the only source that reports clashes bw SAA and IS in all of these villages is EjmAlrai.
Furthermore, according to the edits done as per EjmAlrai clashes between IS and SAA have as gone as far as behind the YPG lines and IS lines, seriously, this offensive was started by IS so how does it make sense to put Ghanamiya as contested when not even official loyalist sources have reported getting close to it? Same goes for Tal Nasr which not a single IS source has reported to be close to.
I suggest changing the villages previously marked as YPG controlled yellow again, leaving Abu Qasayeb black and putting Tal Gazal as contested, which is the only info we have multi-POV confirmation for.
190.65.38.206 ( talk) 17:09, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
The YPG makes significant gains in NorthEast. here, here. Lindi29 ( talk) 18:37, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
Many pro-opp sources reporting rebel attacks on the regime-held Missile Battalion near Khan Touman. https://www.facebook.com/Syrian.Revolution/posts/10155139834390727 Is it indicated on the map? And what's the status of the 3 Ammo Storages nearby? ChrissCh94 ( talk) 15:31, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
When the Islamic State took over the Menagh Military Airbase? Here in gray
Please see:
The FSA is removed from the base: Al-Monitor. Jabhat al-Nusra eyes Idlib for Islamic emirate
The ISIL is removed from the base, which is under the control of al-Nusra Front: html McClatchy DC. In Syria, ISIS pulls out of Azaz as intra-rebel battle brews. BY MITCHELL Prothero. McClatchy Foreign Staff, February 28, 2014
No meeting news that the ISIS retake the base. Greetings.-- Nerêo ( talk) 17:01, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
Today SOHR reported that violent clashes took place between IS and YPG in the south and southwest of city Ras al- Ayn and near the town of Tall Hmis. SOHR So maybe there for now is clashes between Kurds and ISIS near the town of Tall Hamis. Who has more information about this issue? Hanibal911 ( talk) 14:14, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
According to deSyracuse it's YPG fighting IS "near" Tal Ghazal and Abu Qasayib with SAA artillery support:
https://twitter.com/deSyracuse/status/549116579221635072
179.32.121.230 ( talk) 14:52, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
According to kurds themselves the clashes near Ras al- Ayn are "cleansing-operations" in the villages of Mebrûka and Aliya here. I think that the clashes around Tall Hamis SOHR refers to is the clashes around Abu Qasayib (it´s only 10 km or so away). Rhocagil ( talk) 14:59, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
Btw any point in keeping Tal Ahmad as besieged by YPG from North? With the frontline now closer to Tal Maruf and Qamishli I doubt YPG is still capable of raiding there.
179.32.121.230 ( talk) 18:49, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
According to Prensa Latina [2] [3] reports is al-Nusra Front militia besieging the towns of Nubl and Al-Zahraa. This site says the same adding that Ansar al Islam coordinating with the Al Nusrah Front, Jaish al Muhajireen wal Ansar in the attack on the two localities. This website also mentions the attack al-Nusra Front. -- Nerêo ( talk) 19:06, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
Dozens of groups have their members around Al Zahra and Nubl town, coming from Al Nusra, Ansar Al deen, Brigade 16, Faylaq al-Sham, Islamic Front Aleppo, Ansar Islam, Jaish al-Mujahideen etc ... nobody is trying to make a push besides Al Nusra (in the past month), but they failed too. 109.175.54.247 ( talk) 19:39, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
Five a powerful armed groups which active in Aleppo have announced the latest bid to rebel unity, dubbing their effort the “Shamiah Front,” as fears grow of a regime encirclement of the rebel-held parts of the northern city. The new alliance is comprised of the Islamic Front, the Mujahedeen Army, the Noureddine Zengi movement, the Fastaqim Kama Umirt gathering and the Asala wa Tanmiya Front. But the Shamiah Front excludes cooperation with the al Nusra , which ejected FSA groups from Idlib province. The Daily Star So let's not kid ourselves hoping that moderate rebels will continue to work closely with the Al Nusra. Besides Al Nusra just as and the ISIS are recognized by many countries as a terrorist organization. Hanibal911 ( talk) 08:51, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
Not the entire Islamic front, only Al Tawhid brigade (ex FSA). DuckZz ( talk) 14:49, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
You are mistaken DuckZz. Indeed, the Shamiah Front is under the command of the former chief of Islamic Front in Aleppo. And in the declaration, as in many articles, I understood that the whole members of Islamic Front operating in the Aleppo area have joined forces in the Shamiah Front. Besides, I totally agree with Hanibal911. Lot's of people inside the ranks of moderate rebels are critisizing Al Nusra now, and are afraid from Nusra turning to an other Islamic State against them, as they did in Idlib with the Syrian Revolutionaries Front... Oussj ( talk) 16:05, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
According to data from reliable and neutral source it is Syrian troops backed NDF retake village Abu Qasayib from ISIS and ISIS advance toward Amara, Wahhabiya and Kharab Asker was stopped. Elijah J. Magnier Hanibal911 ( talk) 11:59, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
Agathocle's new map not only confirms Abu Qasayeb being under joint control but reveals there are no clashes in Abu Khazaf and Tal Nasr which are de facto under kurdish control, and Ghanamiyah which is much farther down the frontline and controlled by IS.
It does however put several villages formerly under SAA or YPG control under IS control which is in accordance to what has happened since they are right in the route IS would have had to use to advance north towards Abu Qasayeb and elsewhere.
https://twitter.com/deSyracuse/status/548767571206746112/photo/1
179.32.121.230 ( talk) 14:13, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
Hanibal911 Ok then I will revert my edit but i could not find any other sources that these villages belong to SSA or YPG ,if you find any source that confrim them tell me.Regard and Respect Lindi29 ( talk) 16:38, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
Heres a Map of the Ongoing Fighting over Syria and Iraq. Also have some interesting features, like US/Israel bases and Gaza. May be usefull in the future. http://www.fps-predators.com/#/middle-east-conflict/4585140400. 200.48.214.19 ( talk) 12:52, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
3 directional concentric icons have been removed without source or discussion. Personally, I think all 3 should be reinstated because they show the front lines. lime presence north of Abu Shafiq checkpoint (where the front line is/where clashes are ongoing), red presence south of Muta'iyah (also a front line position), and lime presence north of the Nassib border crossing (rebels hold the town, the SAA holds the checkpoint and last we heard the rebels had the initiative, hence the lime north of Nassib crossing) Boredwhytekid ( talk) 14:13, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=748013041959319 That's an interview with a regime officer describing the SAA's tactical retreat from Wadi-El-Deif/Hamidiyah. In the last part of the interview he says that retreating SAA forces bypassed the Khazzanat Camp to reach the first SAA positions, located north of Morek. We conclude that Khazzanat Camp is rebel-held. Here is another proof, the SAA's 11th Tank Division, the one operating in Idlib & Hama, denying that SAA captured Khazzanat Camp. https://www.facebook.com/Division11.Tanks/posts/749090718504420 ChrissCh94 ( talk) 01:26, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
ChrissCh94 ( talk) 01:36, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
I agree Khazzanat to green Khan Shaykhoun to contested . 81.156.224.243 ( talk) 12:09, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
ChrissCh94 ( talk) 12:21, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
Can you guys compromise some how? 81.156.224.243 ( talk) 12:25, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
ChrissCh94 ( talk) 12:32, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
LET THE USERS/EDITORS DECIDE. ChrissCh94 ( talk) 13:18, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
why we don't put all cities in green? you are destroying map. please hanibal react!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.155.17.25 ( talk) 13:56, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
[4] [5]SOHR and Mojez (pro-opp) saying that Syrian Air force dropped barrel bombs on/in Madaya.
Before I even start a conversation about a bigger change on the map, is Cheldric Labrouse considered reliable ? DuckZz ( talk) 10:44, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
Al-Melabyia is marked red. Even according to Sana here, there are clashes inside the village. Al-Melabyia should be marked contested. Rhocagil ( talk) 18:28, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
Maybe then we should add a red one side siege icon north of Regiment 121. Anyway it seams logical. Rhocagil ( talk) 19:41, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
I added Ebla GTP Gas Plant here as the gas plant referenced by SOHR. Pretty sure it's the right one. Any comments? Also, to indicate the IS presence from whence the vehicle born suicide attack originated, I put a black concentric to the northeast of Murran al Fuwairah here since it is closer to the front line with IS than the actual gas plant, and as such is a clearer indicator of the front line. Boredwhytekid ( talk) 20:44, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
According to TahriSy, IS is massing troups in Al Taibah. Now he didn't said that IS captured this or that what would indicate that he's trying to convince us in something, but it looks like this area has been under their control for a while. Now I find him very reliable, he uses his own sources. What other think ? DuckZz ( talk) 22:41, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
SOHR reported that Al Nusra seized a post of Hazem Movement in Kafar Karmin area in the western countryside of Aleppo. SOHR So we need add this village and mark her as contested between Al Nusra and moderate rebels. Hanibal911 ( talk) 13:51, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
Why contested ? No logic, if you put it as contested, it will stay forever like that. SOHR didn't report about clashes, so the town needs to go under JAN control with a semicircle DuckZz ( talk) 21:58, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
We all know that there were clashes between most rebel groups with each other. even between groups from Islamic front itself or FSA. Most Gray towns in the map have other rebel groups and most green towns in the map have also Nusra presence. this is not the right time to use a unique color for Nusra Front. So let us give accurate information and unite the two colors again. 3bdulelah ( talk) 14:30, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
Most of the Nusra control towns have Islamic Front and Jund Al-Aqsa jihadists, that are considered under the green color. I also agree to remove Nusra. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.219.152.90 ( talk) 15:23, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
I like the idea of the additional rural icons, but I'm not sure if we can fit them into Western Qalamoun. Perhaps we should make them straddle the border, half on the Lebanese side. Boredwhytekid ( talk) 16:30, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
Agree with Boredwhytekid and ChrissCh94. Lindi29 ( talk) 16:53, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
I think the majority of people who don't like this color is because it reminds them of ISIS on this map. I have never seen JAN using the grey color as their symbol. I don't think we should remove the icon, especially from Idlib, they earn it there, but maybe it's a good idea to change its color ? Besides black (already used here), JAN logo color is blue. A better idea would be to use a dark green color to represent JAN presence, as this would improve the quality of the map, ease of editing, remove excess discuss etc ... Here's a good example of how the map would look like, altought Thomas uses dark green for something else but it's the same concept. What do you think ? Boredwhytekid DuckZz ( talk) 21:40, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
I agree. Dark green also hints that the relations between JAN and the other rebels hasn't fallen apart to the degree that it did with IS. It shows that they are separate from the main rebels but still cooperate as mainly the same fighting force against Assad. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.184.90.239 ( talk) 22:27, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
It's a good point - that dark green is a more appropriate color to depict JAN's (mostly) working relationship with the other rebel organizations/groups than grey. Grey is closer in color to the IS black, and the implication is that we are equating JAN closer to the IS than to any other belligerent party. I agree that right now, yes, a dark green more accurately depicts the current tentative alliances between JAN and the other rebel groups than grey does; but, I still prefer the grey because in the long run, no matter what direction this war in the Levant goes, JAN will never be fighting to hoist the green flag of the revolution. I agree with Hannibal - JAN wants to hoist the black flag, and their color on our map should indicate so. To show them in green would misrepresent their professed ideological platform. Boredwhytekid ( talk) 23:56, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
Hanibal911 I know, their color is black but it's already in use. A dark green color would perfectly fit in the map, it would show the jihady presence in Syria, light green would show more moderate rebels, yes that includes Ahrar Sham, because an emirate is not their goal neither they committe crimes like Jund Al Aqsa (JAN) or ISIS. The map would be much clearer and easier to understand. I know they don't use dark green for their flags, but neither grey, it's even more logical to use dark blue because they use that color for their public channels. On some parts in Syria they hate ISIS more than anyone (Quneitra, Darra, Damascus, Deir Ezor). My suggestion is dark green or dark blue (looks like grey) its only my opinion DuckZz ( talk) 00:28, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
1) Leave a gray color because it is neutral between white and black colors which present are on the flag of Al Nusra. 2) Or choose a neutral color Crimson Lake Favourite Green Dark Brown Orange Midnight Blue Golden Brown Raw 20Umber Hanibal911 ( talk) 08:06, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
Just wanted to voice my opinion. Nusra, like its been stated, is an anomaly among moderate rebel groups since even though they are allies with some of them they come into conflict with others and are the official branch of Al Qaeda. Thus they are notable enough to have their own color on the map. EkoGraf ( talk) 11:54, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
Hanibal911 Favourite green looks pretty good, its similar to grey but still fits in the map as a different color. Maybe use this one, it has more contrast :) DuckZz ( talk) 14:46, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
Hanibal911 Did someone actually made the file circle or ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by DuckZz ( talk • contribs) 15:51, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
My interest is pretty much only about File:Syria and Iraq 2014-onward War map which is made from this module.
I'd prefer Al-Nursa to be re-included in green, but I doubt that's going to happen. In that case any colour that's not close to existing dot colours, redy-purple, pink, grey, yellowy-orange and greenish-yellow, or cyanish green. Also, not the green-red overlap purple or the yellow-grey overlap yellow (from contested. This pretty much leaves: Dark green, Some oranges, White (which wouldn't for shading). I'd consider it likely that a not dark enough green or a light blue may cause confusion on a map.
But realistically, pretty much anything is better than grey, so even though I might not like a colour we change to, unless you want to reuse a colour, I'd agree with changing to it. Both another editor and I have made mistakes with thinking grey is black, the difference only being obvious when dealing with towns. With helicopters and besieged at one side icons mistakes are harder to spot.
Also, grey is causing problems with the file, because if grey is used in the foreground to shade the map, it is easily confused with black.
Going through above suggested colours my opinion is: Crimson Lake: Not likely to cause confusion Favourite Green: Looks a lot much like Black on map Dark Brown: Looks too much like Black on map Hannible's orange: Looks a lot much like Red on the map Midnight Blue: Looks a lot like Black on the map Golden Brown: Looks a little like Black on the map. Raw Umber: Looks a lot like Black on the map.
Tl;DR: My colour preference from selection above
Also, not sure if this should be here but can we clear up the template a little, we don't really need to list all possible the 2 way conflicts, do we? Though if we were listing them, we'd need rebel/Kurds and IS/JaN (though those two are unlikely). 3 way is really unlikely to be used, at least I can't see a 3 way fight without IS.
-- John Smith the Gamer ( talk) 23:05, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
Blue color is a terrible idea, the map would look like a rainbow, too much colors. In my opinion, we need to use a dark color because the JAN circles will be around in out Rebel areas, which are marked as light green, JAN need to have a darker color because it would fit right there and of course darker color indicates their jihady ideology. My suggestion :
Greetings. I believe it is important to add some missing military sites to add strategic depth and importance to certain areas.
Many many more sites can be found on Wikimapia showing SAA presence in numerous areas that seemingly lack this presence. The desert for example is not as empty as we may have thought. ChrissCh94 ( talk) 17:53, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
I'm not against Sheikh Khader Zubin Farma nd Abu Ras, al-Mashafi hamlets going on the map - they are SAA held, no doubt about it, and they should be added. I think we should add them, AND sites in Idlib, AND the IS pathway to Hama province. Let's get all 3 done while we're in this consensus spirit of fixing our evident mistakes though without sources.
I'm all for adding the bases - I just proposed filling in Idlib a bit when other SAA sites starting going up, like farms and industrial sites. Also not against those either though. Just wanted to fill in Eastern Idlib a little and the same for the IS corridor to Hama. Both also add realism/strategic depth to the map, because they are known areas of control that up til now we have not accurately shown. We still need to sprinkle in a few dots between Abu al-Duhur and the Aleppo road too - still a major blank spot on our map, shown as rebel held on every other map. There are not bases, or even specific sites, but the area is littered with rebel villages and yet by glancing at our map you'd think it's an unoccupied desert. Boredwhytekid ( talk) 13:53, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
No, we're going 1-for-1-for-1, if anything, or nothing. The unsourced but accurate SAA sites on the Jordanian border and the unsourced but accurate rebel control in Eastern Idlib and the equally unsourced but accurate IS corridor from Raqqah to Hama. All 3 have strategic importance, and by doing all 3 no one can be accused of bias because we'll be bending the rules equally for all sides while not compromising the integrity of the map. Central/southern Latakia and Tartus are #1 irrelevant because we already show both provinces SAA held, and #2 inappropriate because that'd be 2 locations for the SAA and only 1 each for rebels and IS. Boredwhytekid ( talk) 15:24, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
Probably a good idea. I added some Idlib towns here. That's it. No more. Just enough to show the area is rebel held. Not trying to add every town or any nonsense like that. Everyone ok with this? It's unsourced so I'm asking for comments here, not trying to arbitrarily add anything. Boredwhytekid ( talk) 16:45, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 35 | Archive 36 | Archive 37 | Archive 38 | Archive 39 | Archive 40 | → | Archive 45 |
IS has started a large offensive in Qamishli-region tonight! According to SOHR and other sources 4 villages and several checkpoints already taken, IS is 15 kilometers southeast of the city! Looks like SAA and YPG were totally surprised and thus were overrun 79.233.56.226 ( talk) 13:22, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
Daily Star quoting SOHR on IS offensive Boredwhytekid ( talk) 13:36, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
According to this [1] report by SOHR the clashes in abu-qasayib area are between YPG and ISIL not Rgime and ISIL and also there are clashes taking place between YPG and NDF. Saeed alaee ( talk) 15:06, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
I think turning all the villages -even ones controlled by kurds AND islamists- contested between SAA-IS seems rushed, this offensive was started by IS against both YPG and SAA and most of the reports (SOHR, PetoLucem, SANA, Hawarnews, pro-IS twitters) indicate clashes centered in Abu Qasayeb and Tal Gazal with all three parties participating, while the only source that reports clashes bw SAA and IS in all of these villages is EjmAlrai.
Furthermore, according to the edits done as per EjmAlrai clashes between IS and SAA have as gone as far as behind the YPG lines and IS lines, seriously, this offensive was started by IS so how does it make sense to put Ghanamiya as contested when not even official loyalist sources have reported getting close to it? Same goes for Tal Nasr which not a single IS source has reported to be close to.
I suggest changing the villages previously marked as YPG controlled yellow again, leaving Abu Qasayeb black and putting Tal Gazal as contested, which is the only info we have multi-POV confirmation for.
190.65.38.206 ( talk) 17:09, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
The YPG makes significant gains in NorthEast. here, here. Lindi29 ( talk) 18:37, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
Many pro-opp sources reporting rebel attacks on the regime-held Missile Battalion near Khan Touman. https://www.facebook.com/Syrian.Revolution/posts/10155139834390727 Is it indicated on the map? And what's the status of the 3 Ammo Storages nearby? ChrissCh94 ( talk) 15:31, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
When the Islamic State took over the Menagh Military Airbase? Here in gray
Please see:
The FSA is removed from the base: Al-Monitor. Jabhat al-Nusra eyes Idlib for Islamic emirate
The ISIL is removed from the base, which is under the control of al-Nusra Front: html McClatchy DC. In Syria, ISIS pulls out of Azaz as intra-rebel battle brews. BY MITCHELL Prothero. McClatchy Foreign Staff, February 28, 2014
No meeting news that the ISIS retake the base. Greetings.-- Nerêo ( talk) 17:01, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
Today SOHR reported that violent clashes took place between IS and YPG in the south and southwest of city Ras al- Ayn and near the town of Tall Hmis. SOHR So maybe there for now is clashes between Kurds and ISIS near the town of Tall Hamis. Who has more information about this issue? Hanibal911 ( talk) 14:14, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
According to deSyracuse it's YPG fighting IS "near" Tal Ghazal and Abu Qasayib with SAA artillery support:
https://twitter.com/deSyracuse/status/549116579221635072
179.32.121.230 ( talk) 14:52, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
According to kurds themselves the clashes near Ras al- Ayn are "cleansing-operations" in the villages of Mebrûka and Aliya here. I think that the clashes around Tall Hamis SOHR refers to is the clashes around Abu Qasayib (it´s only 10 km or so away). Rhocagil ( talk) 14:59, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
Btw any point in keeping Tal Ahmad as besieged by YPG from North? With the frontline now closer to Tal Maruf and Qamishli I doubt YPG is still capable of raiding there.
179.32.121.230 ( talk) 18:49, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
According to Prensa Latina [2] [3] reports is al-Nusra Front militia besieging the towns of Nubl and Al-Zahraa. This site says the same adding that Ansar al Islam coordinating with the Al Nusrah Front, Jaish al Muhajireen wal Ansar in the attack on the two localities. This website also mentions the attack al-Nusra Front. -- Nerêo ( talk) 19:06, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
Dozens of groups have their members around Al Zahra and Nubl town, coming from Al Nusra, Ansar Al deen, Brigade 16, Faylaq al-Sham, Islamic Front Aleppo, Ansar Islam, Jaish al-Mujahideen etc ... nobody is trying to make a push besides Al Nusra (in the past month), but they failed too. 109.175.54.247 ( talk) 19:39, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
Five a powerful armed groups which active in Aleppo have announced the latest bid to rebel unity, dubbing their effort the “Shamiah Front,” as fears grow of a regime encirclement of the rebel-held parts of the northern city. The new alliance is comprised of the Islamic Front, the Mujahedeen Army, the Noureddine Zengi movement, the Fastaqim Kama Umirt gathering and the Asala wa Tanmiya Front. But the Shamiah Front excludes cooperation with the al Nusra , which ejected FSA groups from Idlib province. The Daily Star So let's not kid ourselves hoping that moderate rebels will continue to work closely with the Al Nusra. Besides Al Nusra just as and the ISIS are recognized by many countries as a terrorist organization. Hanibal911 ( talk) 08:51, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
Not the entire Islamic front, only Al Tawhid brigade (ex FSA). DuckZz ( talk) 14:49, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
You are mistaken DuckZz. Indeed, the Shamiah Front is under the command of the former chief of Islamic Front in Aleppo. And in the declaration, as in many articles, I understood that the whole members of Islamic Front operating in the Aleppo area have joined forces in the Shamiah Front. Besides, I totally agree with Hanibal911. Lot's of people inside the ranks of moderate rebels are critisizing Al Nusra now, and are afraid from Nusra turning to an other Islamic State against them, as they did in Idlib with the Syrian Revolutionaries Front... Oussj ( talk) 16:05, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
According to data from reliable and neutral source it is Syrian troops backed NDF retake village Abu Qasayib from ISIS and ISIS advance toward Amara, Wahhabiya and Kharab Asker was stopped. Elijah J. Magnier Hanibal911 ( talk) 11:59, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
Agathocle's new map not only confirms Abu Qasayeb being under joint control but reveals there are no clashes in Abu Khazaf and Tal Nasr which are de facto under kurdish control, and Ghanamiyah which is much farther down the frontline and controlled by IS.
It does however put several villages formerly under SAA or YPG control under IS control which is in accordance to what has happened since they are right in the route IS would have had to use to advance north towards Abu Qasayeb and elsewhere.
https://twitter.com/deSyracuse/status/548767571206746112/photo/1
179.32.121.230 ( talk) 14:13, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
Hanibal911 Ok then I will revert my edit but i could not find any other sources that these villages belong to SSA or YPG ,if you find any source that confrim them tell me.Regard and Respect Lindi29 ( talk) 16:38, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
Heres a Map of the Ongoing Fighting over Syria and Iraq. Also have some interesting features, like US/Israel bases and Gaza. May be usefull in the future. http://www.fps-predators.com/#/middle-east-conflict/4585140400. 200.48.214.19 ( talk) 12:52, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
3 directional concentric icons have been removed without source or discussion. Personally, I think all 3 should be reinstated because they show the front lines. lime presence north of Abu Shafiq checkpoint (where the front line is/where clashes are ongoing), red presence south of Muta'iyah (also a front line position), and lime presence north of the Nassib border crossing (rebels hold the town, the SAA holds the checkpoint and last we heard the rebels had the initiative, hence the lime north of Nassib crossing) Boredwhytekid ( talk) 14:13, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=748013041959319 That's an interview with a regime officer describing the SAA's tactical retreat from Wadi-El-Deif/Hamidiyah. In the last part of the interview he says that retreating SAA forces bypassed the Khazzanat Camp to reach the first SAA positions, located north of Morek. We conclude that Khazzanat Camp is rebel-held. Here is another proof, the SAA's 11th Tank Division, the one operating in Idlib & Hama, denying that SAA captured Khazzanat Camp. https://www.facebook.com/Division11.Tanks/posts/749090718504420 ChrissCh94 ( talk) 01:26, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
ChrissCh94 ( talk) 01:36, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
I agree Khazzanat to green Khan Shaykhoun to contested . 81.156.224.243 ( talk) 12:09, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
ChrissCh94 ( talk) 12:21, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
Can you guys compromise some how? 81.156.224.243 ( talk) 12:25, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
ChrissCh94 ( talk) 12:32, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
LET THE USERS/EDITORS DECIDE. ChrissCh94 ( talk) 13:18, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
why we don't put all cities in green? you are destroying map. please hanibal react!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.155.17.25 ( talk) 13:56, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
[4] [5]SOHR and Mojez (pro-opp) saying that Syrian Air force dropped barrel bombs on/in Madaya.
Before I even start a conversation about a bigger change on the map, is Cheldric Labrouse considered reliable ? DuckZz ( talk) 10:44, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
Al-Melabyia is marked red. Even according to Sana here, there are clashes inside the village. Al-Melabyia should be marked contested. Rhocagil ( talk) 18:28, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
Maybe then we should add a red one side siege icon north of Regiment 121. Anyway it seams logical. Rhocagil ( talk) 19:41, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
I added Ebla GTP Gas Plant here as the gas plant referenced by SOHR. Pretty sure it's the right one. Any comments? Also, to indicate the IS presence from whence the vehicle born suicide attack originated, I put a black concentric to the northeast of Murran al Fuwairah here since it is closer to the front line with IS than the actual gas plant, and as such is a clearer indicator of the front line. Boredwhytekid ( talk) 20:44, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
According to TahriSy, IS is massing troups in Al Taibah. Now he didn't said that IS captured this or that what would indicate that he's trying to convince us in something, but it looks like this area has been under their control for a while. Now I find him very reliable, he uses his own sources. What other think ? DuckZz ( talk) 22:41, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
SOHR reported that Al Nusra seized a post of Hazem Movement in Kafar Karmin area in the western countryside of Aleppo. SOHR So we need add this village and mark her as contested between Al Nusra and moderate rebels. Hanibal911 ( talk) 13:51, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
Why contested ? No logic, if you put it as contested, it will stay forever like that. SOHR didn't report about clashes, so the town needs to go under JAN control with a semicircle DuckZz ( talk) 21:58, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
We all know that there were clashes between most rebel groups with each other. even between groups from Islamic front itself or FSA. Most Gray towns in the map have other rebel groups and most green towns in the map have also Nusra presence. this is not the right time to use a unique color for Nusra Front. So let us give accurate information and unite the two colors again. 3bdulelah ( talk) 14:30, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
Most of the Nusra control towns have Islamic Front and Jund Al-Aqsa jihadists, that are considered under the green color. I also agree to remove Nusra. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.219.152.90 ( talk) 15:23, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
I like the idea of the additional rural icons, but I'm not sure if we can fit them into Western Qalamoun. Perhaps we should make them straddle the border, half on the Lebanese side. Boredwhytekid ( talk) 16:30, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
Agree with Boredwhytekid and ChrissCh94. Lindi29 ( talk) 16:53, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
I think the majority of people who don't like this color is because it reminds them of ISIS on this map. I have never seen JAN using the grey color as their symbol. I don't think we should remove the icon, especially from Idlib, they earn it there, but maybe it's a good idea to change its color ? Besides black (already used here), JAN logo color is blue. A better idea would be to use a dark green color to represent JAN presence, as this would improve the quality of the map, ease of editing, remove excess discuss etc ... Here's a good example of how the map would look like, altought Thomas uses dark green for something else but it's the same concept. What do you think ? Boredwhytekid DuckZz ( talk) 21:40, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
I agree. Dark green also hints that the relations between JAN and the other rebels hasn't fallen apart to the degree that it did with IS. It shows that they are separate from the main rebels but still cooperate as mainly the same fighting force against Assad. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.184.90.239 ( talk) 22:27, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
It's a good point - that dark green is a more appropriate color to depict JAN's (mostly) working relationship with the other rebel organizations/groups than grey. Grey is closer in color to the IS black, and the implication is that we are equating JAN closer to the IS than to any other belligerent party. I agree that right now, yes, a dark green more accurately depicts the current tentative alliances between JAN and the other rebel groups than grey does; but, I still prefer the grey because in the long run, no matter what direction this war in the Levant goes, JAN will never be fighting to hoist the green flag of the revolution. I agree with Hannibal - JAN wants to hoist the black flag, and their color on our map should indicate so. To show them in green would misrepresent their professed ideological platform. Boredwhytekid ( talk) 23:56, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
Hanibal911 I know, their color is black but it's already in use. A dark green color would perfectly fit in the map, it would show the jihady presence in Syria, light green would show more moderate rebels, yes that includes Ahrar Sham, because an emirate is not their goal neither they committe crimes like Jund Al Aqsa (JAN) or ISIS. The map would be much clearer and easier to understand. I know they don't use dark green for their flags, but neither grey, it's even more logical to use dark blue because they use that color for their public channels. On some parts in Syria they hate ISIS more than anyone (Quneitra, Darra, Damascus, Deir Ezor). My suggestion is dark green or dark blue (looks like grey) its only my opinion DuckZz ( talk) 00:28, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
1) Leave a gray color because it is neutral between white and black colors which present are on the flag of Al Nusra. 2) Or choose a neutral color Crimson Lake Favourite Green Dark Brown Orange Midnight Blue Golden Brown Raw 20Umber Hanibal911 ( talk) 08:06, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
Just wanted to voice my opinion. Nusra, like its been stated, is an anomaly among moderate rebel groups since even though they are allies with some of them they come into conflict with others and are the official branch of Al Qaeda. Thus they are notable enough to have their own color on the map. EkoGraf ( talk) 11:54, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
Hanibal911 Favourite green looks pretty good, its similar to grey but still fits in the map as a different color. Maybe use this one, it has more contrast :) DuckZz ( talk) 14:46, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
Hanibal911 Did someone actually made the file circle or ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by DuckZz ( talk • contribs) 15:51, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
My interest is pretty much only about File:Syria and Iraq 2014-onward War map which is made from this module.
I'd prefer Al-Nursa to be re-included in green, but I doubt that's going to happen. In that case any colour that's not close to existing dot colours, redy-purple, pink, grey, yellowy-orange and greenish-yellow, or cyanish green. Also, not the green-red overlap purple or the yellow-grey overlap yellow (from contested. This pretty much leaves: Dark green, Some oranges, White (which wouldn't for shading). I'd consider it likely that a not dark enough green or a light blue may cause confusion on a map.
But realistically, pretty much anything is better than grey, so even though I might not like a colour we change to, unless you want to reuse a colour, I'd agree with changing to it. Both another editor and I have made mistakes with thinking grey is black, the difference only being obvious when dealing with towns. With helicopters and besieged at one side icons mistakes are harder to spot.
Also, grey is causing problems with the file, because if grey is used in the foreground to shade the map, it is easily confused with black.
Going through above suggested colours my opinion is: Crimson Lake: Not likely to cause confusion Favourite Green: Looks a lot much like Black on map Dark Brown: Looks too much like Black on map Hannible's orange: Looks a lot much like Red on the map Midnight Blue: Looks a lot like Black on the map Golden Brown: Looks a little like Black on the map. Raw Umber: Looks a lot like Black on the map.
Tl;DR: My colour preference from selection above
Also, not sure if this should be here but can we clear up the template a little, we don't really need to list all possible the 2 way conflicts, do we? Though if we were listing them, we'd need rebel/Kurds and IS/JaN (though those two are unlikely). 3 way is really unlikely to be used, at least I can't see a 3 way fight without IS.
-- John Smith the Gamer ( talk) 23:05, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
Blue color is a terrible idea, the map would look like a rainbow, too much colors. In my opinion, we need to use a dark color because the JAN circles will be around in out Rebel areas, which are marked as light green, JAN need to have a darker color because it would fit right there and of course darker color indicates their jihady ideology. My suggestion :
Greetings. I believe it is important to add some missing military sites to add strategic depth and importance to certain areas.
Many many more sites can be found on Wikimapia showing SAA presence in numerous areas that seemingly lack this presence. The desert for example is not as empty as we may have thought. ChrissCh94 ( talk) 17:53, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
I'm not against Sheikh Khader Zubin Farma nd Abu Ras, al-Mashafi hamlets going on the map - they are SAA held, no doubt about it, and they should be added. I think we should add them, AND sites in Idlib, AND the IS pathway to Hama province. Let's get all 3 done while we're in this consensus spirit of fixing our evident mistakes though without sources.
I'm all for adding the bases - I just proposed filling in Idlib a bit when other SAA sites starting going up, like farms and industrial sites. Also not against those either though. Just wanted to fill in Eastern Idlib a little and the same for the IS corridor to Hama. Both also add realism/strategic depth to the map, because they are known areas of control that up til now we have not accurately shown. We still need to sprinkle in a few dots between Abu al-Duhur and the Aleppo road too - still a major blank spot on our map, shown as rebel held on every other map. There are not bases, or even specific sites, but the area is littered with rebel villages and yet by glancing at our map you'd think it's an unoccupied desert. Boredwhytekid ( talk) 13:53, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
No, we're going 1-for-1-for-1, if anything, or nothing. The unsourced but accurate SAA sites on the Jordanian border and the unsourced but accurate rebel control in Eastern Idlib and the equally unsourced but accurate IS corridor from Raqqah to Hama. All 3 have strategic importance, and by doing all 3 no one can be accused of bias because we'll be bending the rules equally for all sides while not compromising the integrity of the map. Central/southern Latakia and Tartus are #1 irrelevant because we already show both provinces SAA held, and #2 inappropriate because that'd be 2 locations for the SAA and only 1 each for rebels and IS. Boredwhytekid ( talk) 15:24, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
Probably a good idea. I added some Idlib towns here. That's it. No more. Just enough to show the area is rebel held. Not trying to add every town or any nonsense like that. Everyone ok with this? It's unsourced so I'm asking for comments here, not trying to arbitrarily add anything. Boredwhytekid ( talk) 16:45, 30 December 2014 (UTC)