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/Archive 1- 2007 discussions |
Constructive suggestions and discussion welcome! The contents of this page are for ongoing discussions. For past discussions please see the archives.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Nrswanson ( talk • contribs) 08:17, 12 April 2008
How about adding a section for contraltos in other forms than classical/operatic? E.g., Cher, Amanda Marshall (popular), Sarah Vaughan (jazz), etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thulcandra ( talk • contribs) 14:50, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
Isn't "the second F above middle C" more idiomatic than "two F's above middle C"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.129.32.158 ( talk) 23:52, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
Cristina Scabbia from Lacuna Coil has a beautiful contralto voice. Someone should add that! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.115.4.113 ( talk) 20:38, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
I'm of the opinion that a listing for singers from other genres should be perfectly fine as long as they can be backed up with references. Given that a perfectly stated range and description for this voice type are listed in this very article compiling a list should not be a problem. I think the real issue has been musical elitism.-- Toady Mcgee ( talk) 03:50, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
I'm reverting all three of these. To the editor who made these changes, please do not delete content without an edit summary. Voceditenore ( talk) 14:50, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
I have removed multiple names to this section – nowhere in their articles does it state, let alone verify, that they are contraltos. A few had been placed the singers in Category:Contraltos with no evidence whatsoever in the article to support the classification. They have also been removed. Some of them have extremely dubious references in their articles, e.g. someone's claim on a fansite or forum - please read Wikipedia:Reliable sources and Wikipedia:No original research. If it is that important to list them here, then those who are adding them can take the time to reference their articles accordingly:
In my view both the classical and non-classical lists are inappropriate in this article. They add nothing to the reader's understanding of the term, and they especially fail to do this when the articles linked to have no mention of the term, as is the case with the majority of pop singer additions. I am going to hive off these sections to separate lists. Voceditenore ( talk) 06:12, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
That was my fault, I'm sorry. I should have added sources. Katy Perry and Fiona Apple does have references on their pages somewhere. I'll find them and put it on the page. Tribal44 ( talk) 19:40, 5 November 2009 (UTC)Tribal44
The section formerly named Notable contraltos has now been split off to a separate article, List of operatic contraltos. Likewise, Contraltos in popular music has been split off to List of contraltos in non-classical music. (The title is used to include musicians in jazz and musical theatre, and to bring it in line with List of baritones in non-classical music.) The new lists are now linked from this article under the relevant headings. The headings remain in this article for the addition of referenced prose text which illuminates the topic. It is not for simply listing "examples" of singers. Please use the new lists for that. Voceditenore ( talk) 08:38, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
Noting that Nrswanson's extensive contributions to this article raised the possibility of copyright issues, and in hopes of improving the general presentation, I have undertaken a fairly extensive revision and reorganization of the text; I did not make any changes to the lists of roles. In the process, I noted a few issues that I don't know how to resolve. First, in more gracefully incorporating the cross reference to Voice classification in non-classical music, I imported the concept that non-classical genres have no authoritative system of classification. Then, just as I hit "save," I realized the statement at least in theory conflicts with the presence of a list of "contralto roles in musical theater." Seems to me one or the other should go, but I don't know which. Second, "coloratura contralto" set forth a typical range flagged with a challenge to its documentation. Pending resolution of that issue, I simply deleted the information. Third and finally, the section on "lyric contralto" indicates that voices of this type are "lighter in timbre" than the others--does this claim hold water relative to "coloratura contralto," which is "light" and "agile"? Drhoehl ( talk) 22:12, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
This category is being inaccurately and misleadingly over-applied to this article which goes against WP:DEFINING. There is nothing inherent or defining in the contralto voice that is androgynous. Contralto is simply a voice type, determined by a particular range and timbre. Some male castrato singers had this voice type, but the roles they played were not androgynous, they were unambiguously male or (less commonly) female characters. Female singers with this voice type have been known to play male roles, but the roles themselves are not androgynous at all, they are unambiguously male characters. Note also that in some operas, sopranos can also be assigned to unambiguously male roles. Voceditenore ( talk) 09:31, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
"vocal cords" is not an "incorrect" term, it's simply falling out of use in favor of "vocal folds." That doesn't make the use of the term wrong; I suggest the reference to vocal cords being incorrect be removed. Corsair Caruso ( talk) 14:38, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
Is there supposed to be a topical break between the sentence about the rarity of dramatic contraltos and the paragraph about the rarity of contralto roles in opera? As a layperson, I can't tell if it's saying that dramatic contraltos rarely have roles written for them, or that all contraltos rarely have roles written for them. - 2606:A000:4321:7300:ED64:47C0:5125:2491 ( talk) 14:34, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
See Talk:Bass_(voice_type)#Potential edit warring on the voice types articles. Kuulopuhe ( talk) 13:35, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||
|
![]() | Contralto is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination failed. For older candidates, please check the archive. | |||||||||
|
![]() | It is requested that one or more audio files of a musical instrument or component be uploaded to Wikimedia Commons and included in this article to improve its quality by demonstrating the way it sounds or alters sound. Please see Wikipedia:Requested recordings for more on this request. |
/Archive 1- 2007 discussions |
Constructive suggestions and discussion welcome! The contents of this page are for ongoing discussions. For past discussions please see the archives.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Nrswanson ( talk • contribs) 08:17, 12 April 2008
How about adding a section for contraltos in other forms than classical/operatic? E.g., Cher, Amanda Marshall (popular), Sarah Vaughan (jazz), etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thulcandra ( talk • contribs) 14:50, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
Isn't "the second F above middle C" more idiomatic than "two F's above middle C"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.129.32.158 ( talk) 23:52, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
Cristina Scabbia from Lacuna Coil has a beautiful contralto voice. Someone should add that! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.115.4.113 ( talk) 20:38, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
I'm of the opinion that a listing for singers from other genres should be perfectly fine as long as they can be backed up with references. Given that a perfectly stated range and description for this voice type are listed in this very article compiling a list should not be a problem. I think the real issue has been musical elitism.-- Toady Mcgee ( talk) 03:50, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
I'm reverting all three of these. To the editor who made these changes, please do not delete content without an edit summary. Voceditenore ( talk) 14:50, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
I have removed multiple names to this section – nowhere in their articles does it state, let alone verify, that they are contraltos. A few had been placed the singers in Category:Contraltos with no evidence whatsoever in the article to support the classification. They have also been removed. Some of them have extremely dubious references in their articles, e.g. someone's claim on a fansite or forum - please read Wikipedia:Reliable sources and Wikipedia:No original research. If it is that important to list them here, then those who are adding them can take the time to reference their articles accordingly:
In my view both the classical and non-classical lists are inappropriate in this article. They add nothing to the reader's understanding of the term, and they especially fail to do this when the articles linked to have no mention of the term, as is the case with the majority of pop singer additions. I am going to hive off these sections to separate lists. Voceditenore ( talk) 06:12, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
That was my fault, I'm sorry. I should have added sources. Katy Perry and Fiona Apple does have references on their pages somewhere. I'll find them and put it on the page. Tribal44 ( talk) 19:40, 5 November 2009 (UTC)Tribal44
The section formerly named Notable contraltos has now been split off to a separate article, List of operatic contraltos. Likewise, Contraltos in popular music has been split off to List of contraltos in non-classical music. (The title is used to include musicians in jazz and musical theatre, and to bring it in line with List of baritones in non-classical music.) The new lists are now linked from this article under the relevant headings. The headings remain in this article for the addition of referenced prose text which illuminates the topic. It is not for simply listing "examples" of singers. Please use the new lists for that. Voceditenore ( talk) 08:38, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
Noting that Nrswanson's extensive contributions to this article raised the possibility of copyright issues, and in hopes of improving the general presentation, I have undertaken a fairly extensive revision and reorganization of the text; I did not make any changes to the lists of roles. In the process, I noted a few issues that I don't know how to resolve. First, in more gracefully incorporating the cross reference to Voice classification in non-classical music, I imported the concept that non-classical genres have no authoritative system of classification. Then, just as I hit "save," I realized the statement at least in theory conflicts with the presence of a list of "contralto roles in musical theater." Seems to me one or the other should go, but I don't know which. Second, "coloratura contralto" set forth a typical range flagged with a challenge to its documentation. Pending resolution of that issue, I simply deleted the information. Third and finally, the section on "lyric contralto" indicates that voices of this type are "lighter in timbre" than the others--does this claim hold water relative to "coloratura contralto," which is "light" and "agile"? Drhoehl ( talk) 22:12, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
This category is being inaccurately and misleadingly over-applied to this article which goes against WP:DEFINING. There is nothing inherent or defining in the contralto voice that is androgynous. Contralto is simply a voice type, determined by a particular range and timbre. Some male castrato singers had this voice type, but the roles they played were not androgynous, they were unambiguously male or (less commonly) female characters. Female singers with this voice type have been known to play male roles, but the roles themselves are not androgynous at all, they are unambiguously male characters. Note also that in some operas, sopranos can also be assigned to unambiguously male roles. Voceditenore ( talk) 09:31, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
"vocal cords" is not an "incorrect" term, it's simply falling out of use in favor of "vocal folds." That doesn't make the use of the term wrong; I suggest the reference to vocal cords being incorrect be removed. Corsair Caruso ( talk) 14:38, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
Is there supposed to be a topical break between the sentence about the rarity of dramatic contraltos and the paragraph about the rarity of contralto roles in opera? As a layperson, I can't tell if it's saying that dramatic contraltos rarely have roles written for them, or that all contraltos rarely have roles written for them. - 2606:A000:4321:7300:ED64:47C0:5125:2491 ( talk) 14:34, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
See Talk:Bass_(voice_type)#Potential edit warring on the voice types articles. Kuulopuhe ( talk) 13:35, 30 January 2024 (UTC)