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I think it is a more appropriate name. That site is no comedy and some of the strings I have read over there are downright scary. They seem to have a real out-to-get mentality and I sense a bit of paranoia as well. Especially the founder, he gives me the creeps. And yes, they project an elitist attitude far worse than anything I have seen here. That whole public school liberalism versus home schooled conservatism. I pray that they don’t really believe that. I think they give Christians and Conservatives a bad name. -- Baronmarbot 00:02, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
I read on this in Taxon 56(2) and I think it is very funny. I think we should have a Leftpedia, another Liberalpedia (actually Liberapedia, etc, etc, as well. Berton 00:27, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
It maybe something that should be included in the article, if someone can find them.-- 142.68.42.145 05:11, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
No, that would give this article even more of an anti-Conservapedia POV most likely. StaticElectric 04:51, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
I removed the following sections - the statement about Liberalpedia seems like OR; at minimum, a reference to the website being created in response to CP should be provided. Plus, I don't see it as a particularly noteworthy inclusion as is.
The 'ideological' section seems NPOV and OR-ish as well - it's a stretch to say it's for ideological reasons and the history link that's provided as a reference is not a permanent link to those particular edits. Also, the e-mail is essentially unciteable.
A website called Liberapedia has been created in response to Conservapedia, although the objective is apparently more to supply humor than actual educational content.
Although Conservapedia claims not to block users for idealogical reasons, one user was blocked when he tried to edit the Conservapedia entry for Al Gore, merely adding four "Citation Needed" tags. The tags were deleted within 60 seconds and the user was blocked. (The tags were for statements of "fact" that seem to cast a negative light on Gore.)[ [1]] Another user was blocked when he tried to edit the Conservapedia entry for "murder", by adding that soldiers in war are allowed to kill without violating the Sixth Commandment. That user received an e-mail from one of the Conservapedia sysops that said "You're not going to insult our military here!"[ [2]
WLU 13:26, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
Conservapedia now blocks all users who aren't "in good standing" from editing for at least 12-hours a day. That means that only sysops (about 30) and trusted non-sysop characters (less than 10) can edit 24 hours a day, and all other editors are either vandals (90%) or editors legitimately on the site who become discouraged by having their opinions squelched and reverted, and then quit (rolling 10%).
I honestly don't think that Conservapedia can claim to be a wiki anymore. If you suppress all but 30 of your membership, you're not an open project anymore. See the discussion here.
Should the article reflect this somehow?- AmesG 16:56, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
So is it not even worth mentioning? It strikes me as anti-wiki philosophy that the only editors not blocked are conservative Christians.- AmesG 17:03, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
Right, that's what I was afraid of. Downer. And hey Trent :-)- AmesG 17:10, 19 August 2007 (UTC) It is not big enough (yet) to find enough secondary sources on it. Doesn't that mean that you can use less accepted sources? If it calls itself "encyclopedic", does that mean that this wiki should call it an "encyclopedia", just because there is no good secondary source where they have taken the trouble to prove that it does not qualify as an encyclopedia? Corailrouge-eng —The preceding signed but undated comment was added at 21:42, August 20, 2007 (UTC).
The site has gotten even worse. I signed up for an account, and made a few changes on a relatively noncontroversial topic – an article titled "Involuntary bankruptcy", which more resembled a (wrong) definition of the term (it stated that the purpose was to force a debtor into liquidation, which is not always so in an involuntary hearing). I attempted to revise the article to correct the wrong statement and to add small segments on the various sections (Chapter 7, 11, and 13) which come into play in bankruptcy cases. Only to learn that the entire article was blocked from editing. I consider myself a conservative Christian and agree with them on some things (though I strongly disagree with them on others, primarly when they get in to conspiracy theory issues), but I guess you have to be a dues-paying member to make edits. Quidam65 ( talk) 05:36, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
No, creation science is not a commonly accepted neologism. In fact, the only regular use of the term comes from creationists themselves. As such, it is in fact blatant POV pushing on your part to suggest that Creation Science stay. Even here on wikipedia, Creation science is defined as creationists' attempts to find scientific support for creationism, and even that definition is generous. At present, there is absolutely no research going on to prove or disprove testable hypothesis concerning any origins found in the Bible.
Finally, in searching Webster's Dictionary, I didn't find creation science, but I did find creationism. If Webster's sees fit to add words such as D'oh! to the dictionary but not creation science, your claim that creation science is a widely accepted neologism looks especially specious. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bynoceros ( talk • contribs) 13:50, August 21, 2007 (UTC).
Creation Science is not commonly used by ANYONE EXCEPT CREATIONISTS, and the fact that the wikientry says as much in the first sentence should be a clue.
Finally, in regards to your mind-numbing display of pedantry, I hate to break it to you, but other people in the world are just as bright as you, and dithering on about neologisms when the term in question has been around for at least forty years in the fudamentalist community is the epitome of irony. Creation Science is not a neologism; D'oh as I mentioned in my previous example is, and MW is doing a fantastic job of adding three or four year old words to the dictionary in each subsequent addition.
To summarize: 1) Creation Science, having been around for forty years plus, is not a neologism; 2) the wikiarticle on creation science explicitly states that it is a term used for and by creationists, and; 3) the term itself is an oxymoron. In the paster, there was the term of astrological science, yet today, no thinking person would make the mistake of lumping astrology in with science. Just because you are willing to allow fundamentalists leeway to term their sophistry as anything more than pseudoscience doesn't actually make it correct. I am reverting to perspective of creationism. Call things by their proper names instead of trolling around in defense of intellectual dishonesty. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.254.237.92 ( talk)
Even more irony. If you’ll notice, the first google link is to a book by Nick Matzke in which he destroys the concept that creation science is in fact science. Moreover, said link references creation science as defined in the 1981 Arkansas court case in which the Supreme Court ruled that creationism is not in fact science.
In fact, among the first ten links, six are from creationist/intelligent design sources (e.g. letters to the editor, Answers in Genesis). Three more are either referencing the lunacy of the term creation science or simply quoting creationists. The only instance in which the term is not used either derisively or by creationists comes from a Baptist university in North Carolina, and even then the articles speaks of a professor speaking out against the vacuity of the “DOCTRINE of creation science.”
My point all along has been and is that, by using the term creation science, one is not maintaining an NPOV. In fact, one is decidedly casting creationism in a pro-creationism light, given, and I'm getting to the point of ad nauseum here, that ONLY CREATIONISTS USE THE TERM, AND WHEN NON-CREATIONISTS USE THE TERM THEY ARE EITHER REFERRING TO THE TERM AS USED BY CREATIONIISTS OR USING THE TERM TONGUE IN CHEEK.
Are we going to maintain NPOV or aren't we. If we are, the term is creationism. If we're going to bow down to the fringe group, keep using creation science. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.239.163.141 ( talk) 13:24, August 23, 2007 (UTC)
Look, it appears that we're all on the *same team*, but that, given the fact that I can't see faces or hear tones some things are being interpreted in a hostile way when they probably aren't intended as such. My point was not that creation science is never used, only that it is used by creationists or folks who simply don't know better. Back in the 80's, the Big Bang Theory was still referred to as the Big Bang hypothesis every once in a while by the non-scientific community, even though it had basically decimated the steady state theory by that point. By the same token, creation science is accidentally used by the non-scientific public sporadically (i.e. the Wired article), but nearly all journalists and all scientists use the term creationism when referring to fundamentalists' Christian beliefs concerning the origin of the universe. I am reverting to perspective of creationism, not to be a jerk or an edit fascist (or whatever the appropriate term may be), but to generate attention so that you come to to the talk page and we can hammer this out.
I feel quite strongly that the term should be creationism; that creation science only abets the loonies and, that; creation 'science' is only used as a misnomer or by folks who really believe that the earth was created 7,000 years after the first recorded instance of the Cherokee people. Cheers to all. Sorry about the militance before.
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An encyclopedia is not the proper venue for proving a point about the appropriateness of a word or phrase. The terminology "creation science" is well-known, documented in the American Heritage dictionary, and is featured as an article here at Wikipedia. It is the term that has been applied by creationists to the career their leaders have chosen.
That the term makes a mockery of real science is irrelevant. The term Christian Science makes a mockery of both science and Christianity, as that religion is neither scientific nor Christian in nature. Yet it is how we refer to that religion, as it is known by that title. We don't go making up new names for it, or using some other term that is grammatically incorrect, just to avoid calling it by a title that we think is ridiculous.
Creationism is a set of beliefs based on the notion that life, the universe, and everything was created. Creation Science is the pursuit of observable evidence for creation. There is really only one rule for us to follow: use proper grammar. When discussing creationist beliefs, the term to use is creationism; and when discussing the effort to prove creationism true, the term to use is Creation Science, since that is the term by which it is known.
The Oracle of Podunk 03:12, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
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Conservapedia has sanctions as a disctinguishing feature. They are on the commandments page. That is reason enough to leave the section on them in the wiki. I propose to put the section back in place Corailrouge-eng 20:59, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
Absolutely. Conservapedia threatens anyone who vandalises it with 10 years imprisonment under US Federal Law. This is of course quite bogus, since the statute cited relates to interfering with government or commercial traffic which Conservapedia is not, but also what constitutes vandalism in the eyes of the self-named "Bureaucrats" who police the Conservapedia could well be highly subjective- such as the use of British English. Although there is probably much less peer review, the small size of Conservapedia (20,000+ entries cf. wikipeidia 8.5 million) enables a small number of Mr Schafly's bulldogs to patrol it for ideological rectitude. Streona 20:29, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
In the article, it compares Conservapedia's 9 commandments to only two of Wikipedia's five pillars, not even mentioning the rest of the policies and guidelines. Is this a biased comparison? -- JDitto 02:07, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
Conservapedia is impossible to navigate. When browsing it (i spent an hour frustrated with it this morning... not the most accurate assessment i guess), you will find that every single article is blocked from editing. Later on, my username was banned for the reason of "please chose another name" (don't understand why "itsnotmyfault" is an illegitimate username to begin with). to discuss the block, the site invites me to post an edit to the blocker's (or other admin's) discussion page... a little hard to do when A) every article is protected and B) you're blocked from posting... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.249.110.111 ( talk) 13:19, August 25, 2007 (UTC)
What is the name of the logical misdirection of which "A Conservative Encyclopedia You Can Trust." is an example - are there conservative encyclopedias which cannot be trusted etc (and some non-US conservative encyclopedias which can)?
Can someone do an archive on this talk page. Jackiespeel 15:30, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Again, this page is for discussion of the Wikipedia page on Conservapedia, not for discussion of Conservapedia itself. StaticElectric 16:33, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
I was asking for a definition/link (g). IMO most of the discussions about Conservapedia, its USPs and what people here think of it have already been gone through - and the meta-analysis of the various Wikis and their USPs belongs in another place. Jackiespeel 17:37, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
A friend of mine recently joined Conservapedia. [3] In it, he posted a section on the user talk page labeled 'Bias,' [4] and challenged its views toward Wikipedia and bias in articles ( [5]). Within the hour that he posted this, several notable editors jumped in and added their own opinions, the editors being the owner of the site, Aschlafy, as well as major editors iDuan and Rob Smith. In addition, the user Joaquin Martinez decided to send him a message saying "We're glad you are here to edit articles better than to Talk. OK?," my friend stated that he was trying to learn via discussion, which is his favored way of learning, rather than simply editing articles. However, this immediately sparked a remark from his friend, --şŷŝôρ-₮K, who criticized him for his lack of editing, and questioned his Christian morals. He even made the case that my friend's comment on grammar was racist because Joaquin was apparently Mexican. He left him with two comments: 1)"Know that I will indeed be watching you 2) so don't be surprised, shocked or dismayed not to be able to edit at any time.
My friend and I are outraged at this injustice. It seems that whenever someone comes on with a differing opinion to Conservapedia's views, they are ridiculed and "watched." This is clearly a group of high-up editors banding together to control this wiki. No self-respecting non-biased encyclopedia would do this, so I propose two things:
You do not have free speech rights on someone else's Web site, Conservapedia or Wikipedia. In particular this entire discussion does not belong here. As StaticElectric points out above "this page is for discussion of the Wikipedia page on Conservapedia, not for discussion of Conservapedia itself."-- agr 09:49, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
Some of the Conservapedia editors (especially Andy Schlafly) do have a history of incivility: personal attacks, flaming, etc. If criticism shows up in "reputable sources" then would it be eligible for inclusion? The decision would have to be careful since it would probably show up in Andy's "Examples of Bias in Wikipedia" page/rant on Conservapedia. - Pingveno ( talk | contrib ) 22:07, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Surely this phrase which keeps popping up in the wiki article is POV? "Percieved liberal bias" would be a better wording. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.7.11.98 ( talk) 11:53, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
While I appreciate that edits such as this raise the ire of Wikipedia editors, I wonder at the inclusion of the information that "The site had 13,000 registered usernames of which about 7,000 were permanently blocked (about 54%)." This seems designed exclusively as a crowing contrast to the enormity of Wikipedia itself, any thoughts? Mallocks 12:04, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
This article reads like it's on Conservapedia itself. I'm not sure what can be done other than a wipe and restart. Is anyone who's not a regular Conservapedia editor working on this article? Simões ( talk/ contribs) 03:08, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
As a side note to those unfamiliar with American politics - or familiar with it and understandably baffled - in certain circles, "liberal" equates with "bad". It's used by many conservatives (e.g. "liberal media bias" that Fox fans and their associates talk about, "liberal agenda" as a path to socialism, even the term "bleeding heart liberal"). Rush Limbaugh and Michael Savage are good examples of people who decry things as liberal in this sense. Hillary Clinton in one debate summed it up when she was asked about considering herself a liberal and she said something to the effect of "the term 'liberal' has been used so negatively so often that I'd have to say 'progressive' instead". So whereas in some countries "liberal" might be a good adjective, in US politics, yes, it's almost a slur depending on who's using it. Luatha 19:50, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
Maybe we could include some information about the Big Word that some Conservapedia users have learned: "Pedantic". The word has been redefined as "any writing by one that disagrees with me". They don't use it correctly but it's so widespread on the site that it's practically a culture reference. 71.35.252.65 04:30, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
Sorry but that's been bugging me. I mean I know they spell it "Conservapedia" but it just doesn't look right. Serendipod ous 10:35, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
Since this bit was removed and inserted a few times now, it may be an idea to duke it out here.
Maybe I can start this by giving some general info (no third-party sources to my knowledge; just so editors have a rough idea what's going on): Yes, several articles on CP are plagiarized. As a matter of fact, Andrew Schlafly explicitly encourages copy-paste jobs as long as the source is a .gov site (with the exclusion of state sites or something).
The reasoning being: "We paid for work on government websites. It's ours already. It's not just public domain, but it is also bought and paid for by the public. So it's fine to copy unbiased material from such sites. Of course the entries can and should then be improved. But it helps having a start, and having a succinct explanation." (Andrew Schlafly, July 2, 2007)
(Trivia: Schlafly also has this to say about Wikipedia: "Moreover, is copying OK to 'kickstart' a project? No, of course not, especially when attribution is not prominently given for such wholesale copying." - don't ask me how the two statements fit together, especially since their government copy-paste jobs are not always marked as such...)
As such, the copying from .gov sites can be horribly obvious on a "good day". Especially during their official "team contests" (the second one ended a few hours ago), where teams get points for creating articles, no matter if they're copy-paste jobs or not.
I actually sometimes took the time to check the New Article log for obvious copy-paste jobs, with quite interesting results: June 23 check (a day on which the sysops suddenly declared that they wanted to break the record for the most new articles per day); first 12 hours of the first team contest day. Even browsing those lists briefly shows how common the copy-paste jobs are.
These cases are legal (I guess... I'm no expert there), but they go against the first commandment ("Do not copy from Wikipedia or elsewhere unless it was your original work.").
However, it doesn't really end there. Quite a few articles are plagiarized/copied from copyrighted sources. Those cases are often removed on sight, but sometimes, the sysops do the copying, and then the motto seems to be "Don't remove it; edit it so it's not a direct copy anymore". It's cringeworthy, but it happens. In some cases, the sysops (once confronted) ask the source site for permission. Sometimes, they heavily lean on re-use policies to justify the copy-pasting.
Summing up: The edit in question is factual and verifiable by looking around, but I don't know of any Notable/Reliable Source that covers it. I'll leave it to the more policy-experienced editors to figure out what to do with this. I just felt like sharing some insight and maybe start discussion on the "Should we include it? If so, how?" questions. -- Sid 3050 01:15, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
Just wondering if it should be mentioned that the staff of Conservapedia reported vandalism to the FBI and after being ridiculed about it being ignored started to ban anyone who mentioned it? Archived talk pages: http://www.conservapedia.com/User_talk:Aschlafly/Archive26#FBI and http://www.conservapedia.com/User_talk:Aschlafly/Archive26#Prosecuting_Vandals RationalWiki article including some deleted bits from the talk pages and a list of those banned for mentioning the FBI since the event: http://www.rationalwiki.com/wiki/Conservapedia:FBI_Incident 193.120.116.178 15:56, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
Then some of these references should be revised. They are pretty much WP:OR, according to many reverts I've seen here. -- Equidistant 12:52, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
Just like articles, as they please? - Dukered 02:22, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
Some Related Articles I put ( Christian right, Conservatism, Fundamentalist Christianity, Right-wing politics, Neoconservatism, Homeschooling) have been reverted, yet I haven't seen a strong argument to do so. MCgeddon says that it's "broad and borderline-POV ... these should be sourced in the body text of the article (and some already are), rather than bolted lazily on)", while Hut 8.5 repeats the same thing (to claim "consensus" later on Hut?) Wisdom 89 alleges that I'm trying to prove a point, using TW.
On that basis, virtually every article on Wikipedia shouldn't have "Related Articles" or the "See Also" section, since everything should be "covered in the body of text". Sincerely, I'd like to see some reasoning here. Equidistant 19:57, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
Conservapedia has no article for vagina, penis, erection and masturbation and only 9 lines for the sex article, however the homosexuality article is over 250 lines long and is referenced to 179 documents. Perhaps this kind of bias should be mentioned in the Wikipedia article.-- 217.44.82.230 11:42, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
Conservapedia considers the Enlightenment to be an atheistic hoax. Alloco1 22:18, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
The homosexuality article is also a anti-gay screed. It seems like it is the point of the site to be anti gay.
The entire 'encyclopedia' is just concentrated idiocy that's point is to be anti-everything that scares them. There is absolutely no mention of hate crimes against homosexuals in that particular article on Conservapedia, for example. Personally, I think Wikipedia should just completely ignore that site. It can do no good to mention it here, it'll just spread the word and give Conservdoesn'tknowhowtospellapedia another reason to badmouth Wikipedia. It's not up to me though, I hardly ever comment anyway.-- 24.192.224.242 ( talk) 15:42, 6 December 2007 (UTC)Hermesscholar
Maybe they are not anti-gay, just anti-gay marriage, like how a lot of people are not anti-white, just anti-KKK. Do you have any examples from the article showing they are anti-gay?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.234.198.154 ( talk • contribs) 19:37, 10 December 2007
Wow. I never thought I'd see the act of marriage described as morally equivalent to joining a hate-driven terrorist organization. Thanks for destroying my faith in humanity. -- SCJE ( talk) 08:32, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
http://www.conservapedia.com/Conservapedia:Commandments
I quote: "Minors under 16 years old use this site. Posting of obscenity here is punishable by up to 10 years in jail under 18 USC § 1470. Vandalism is punishable up to 10 years in jail per 18 USC § 1030. The IP addresses of vandals will be reported to authorities. That includes your employer and your local prosecutor."
I know we can't take this straight from the page, as that would constitute original research (I suppose Conservapedia has no such rule from what I've seen of its material), but this kind of threat—which they have in the past acted on—is clearly abhorrent and completely contrary to the purposes of the wiki software that these insects stole and shamelessly trashed. Anyway, I'm sure most of the editors here are aware of this little bit, as much as it has been paraded around. That this has been mentioned in countless blogs (or at least one: http://crankydaze.blogspot.com/2007/03/conservapedia.html) and been parodied at least on Uncyclopedia and ED (which perhaps ought not be included considering its blacklisted status) should or could count for something. I'm sure some "notable" source will eventually pick up on it if Conservapedia doesn't die in the meantime, but I really think this should be somehow included, seeing as how Wikipedia uses the Wiki software and Conservapedia is fairly notable and all that. Bloodbeard 15:25, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
Block quote Major policies that the party has recently supported include a neoconservative foreign policy, including War on Terror, liberations of Afghanistan and Iraq, strong support for democracy especially in the Middle East, and 'distrust of the United Nations due to the organization's incompetent bureaucracy, anti-capitalist undertone, corruption on the Security Council and in UN humanitarian programs'
That is in conservapedia in the republican party article. I think we all know whether its biased or not
Why is an article on RW not allowed if this article is allowed to stand? Either allow both or allow neither - to do anything else would be hypocritical. Concernedcitizen102 19:22, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
Can someone explain to me why we cannot have an article on Rationalwiki without the childish legal mumbo jumbo. Concernedcitizen102 19:35, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
Rationalwiki was mentioned in the LA Times article on conservapedia. Just because YOU happen to believe it is not notable doesn't make it so. Concernedcitizen102 19:39, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
So I'm glad you like the site!!!!- AmesG 03:09, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
Wisdom89, why did you revert this edit?
The claimed primary goal of the Conservapedia article is to create a "trustworthy encyclopedia." This goal is given such emphasis that they've made it the subtitle or slogan for their site. It appears in the upper-left corner of every page on their site, as part of their logo.
It seems to me that the first-stated goal of the Conservapedia project should be mentioned in Wikipedia's article about it. Don't you agree?
So I added it. But a few hours later you reverted it.
You made no Talk page comment about your deletion, and your edit summary is confusing to me. Your edit summary said, "The less original research we have in this article the better." Why did you call quoting that subtitle WP:OR? Did you think that I came up with the subtitle myself? Did you, perhaps, overlook the "trustworthy encyclopedia" subtitle in the upper-left corner of every page on their site? NCdave 07:50, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
I ask this question because the article says it is "an English-language wiki-based web encyclopedia project..." True, it is a project, still young (one year this month), but is it an encyclopedia? So far, Conservapedia essentially fails as a reference site. It seems more like a political forum. Just take a good look at it. And *please* don't say that would break the NOR rule, 'cause this is basic. Flor Silvestre 21:18, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
em...sorry...but... it WOULD break the NOR rule - if describes itself as an encyclopedia, that's how we describe it. If you can find sources that say those things then we can add them in the relevent sections but not the lead-in. -- Fredrick day 21:41, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
“ | a book or set of books giving information on many subjects or on many aspects of one subject and typically arranged alphabetically. | ” |
This article ends rather weirdly, just stopping at a random point. there needs to be a concluding section, perhaps about CP's future, or its context in the wider world. Perhaps the material to draw on isn't there yet, but the article ending does kind of hang in mid-air. Incidentally, this is not a call to add uncited speculation. Totnesmartin ( talk) 19:20, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
I've put the title back to "Accusations of Censorship". The first title is both not NPOV and is not supported by the sources. JoshuaZ ( talk) 23:33, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
According to the Conservapedia statistics page, the most often searched topics as of 10/20/2007 are: Homosexuality (1,505,034 views), Homosexuality and Hepatitis (516,277), Homosexuality and Promiscuity (417,416), Homosexuality and Parasites (387,532), Homosexuality and Domestic Violence (333,452), Homosexuality and Gonorrhea (328,632), Gay Bowel Syndrome (322,735), Homosexuality and Syphilis (262,583), and Homosexuality and Mental Health (257,560).
So it appears that a large percentage of Conservapedia's audience is interested in homosexuality. Had topics regarding homosexuality placed only a few of the top page ranks, it might not be considered newsworthy. However, save the main page, articles regarding homosexuality outrank every other conservative issue (such as abortion, the Bible, the Commandments, terrorism, etc...) out there. This might be something to consider writing about. Dinjiin ( talk) 03:47, 21 November 2007 (UTC)Dinjiin
Assuming this was "probably the result of click bots" what is the purpose of mentioning it in the section "Creationism, conservatism, and bias"? Perhaps there should be a new section on "Attacks" where it might be relevant (although I imagine they consider any attempt at introducing any facts counter to their particular POV as an attack). With its current wording and placement, I can't think of a reason for including it. -- Rick Block ( talk) 16:48, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
The LA Times article includes the sentence "A glance at an entry's history -- which shows editing over time -- makes clear how quickly dissenting views are deleted." - what are other editors' opinions on how we should use this quote? Is the writer talking about a single article (the breast cancer article that she goes on to discuss), or does she mean "any article"? Is the line sufficiently ambiguous that we can't really conclude anything from it?
The current version of the Wikipedia article uses this quote to conclude that "Conservapedia's sysops quickly delete dissenting views added to its articles on science and medicine.", but this seems like too much of a generalisation (and perhaps credits the Conservapedia sysops with too much omniscience). What do we think? -- McGeddon ( talk) 18:38, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
I discovered conservapedia last night and basically laughed out loud the whole night nonstop. Anyhow, seeing how the project seems to be serious from it's editors, I hope wikipedia does not get caught up in their accusations and react in anyway. I did find one line in the article here: "Such accusations are not found in Wikipedia's article.[20]" which seems to be a provoked response to Conservapedia. I think it's best to refrain from starting a fight of any sort and to remain objective. The title of this article is 'Conservapedia' not 'Comparisons of Wikipedia and Convervapedia'. So I'm removing that one line, hope no one has a problem with that. Abhishekbh ( talk) 15:38, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
The Daily Show reference was removed today. The Daily Show is very notable, is it worth a mention? Perhaps not as a criticism, but as a reaction? I'm trying to find the video and having little luck. WLU ( talk) 21:22, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
Try Youtube, 'Wikipedia & Youtube: liberal bias' or something like that. I found it while looking for last laugh 07. Lewis Black talks about it, and it's hilarious. However, Lewis Black isn't exactly the most neutral guy in the world, so you might want to reconsider before putting that link on a website that has such a liberal bias already... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.192.224.242 ( talk) 15:52, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
The question has arisen whether " Wikipedia presents evolution as a biological process defined by observable, empirical, and measurable evidence, subject to specific principles of reasoning." is less correct than " Wikipedia presents evolution as a biological scientific theory defined by observable, empirical, and measurable evidence, subject to specific principles of reasoning." I submit it is more correct; the sentence describes the process of evolution, which is observable, and not the theory, which is not. Further, Wikipedia's article on evolution begins by presenting the observable fact of evolution, and doesn't mention "theory" until the third paragraph. "Process" is correct here. - Nunh-huh 05:19, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
Can you both live with the following:
The point is that Conservapedia claims evolution is only a theory (indeed, "evolution" is a redirect to "theory of evolution") while Wikipedia's article on evolution describes a process that the theory explains. Note I've deleted the reference to Newton, who certainly didn't have anything to say about Wikipedia's article. I actually think it would be best to find a secondary source describing both Conservapedia's and Wikipedia's articles about evolution rather than these summaries which border on WP:OR. -- Rick Block ( talk) 20:36, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
Wisdom89,
In the Conservapedia article, the claim that Conservapedia has the "stated goal" of being oriented toward right-wing Christian views is not verifiable. Anyone who bothers to visit Conservapedia and look for such a statement will come up empty-handed. It is indeed obvious that this is what Conservapedia is all about, but there is no such mission statement at Conservapedia.
Thus, the correct way to note the site's bias is to say it is "apparent" rather than to say it is a "stated" gaol, when no such statement is made. To say the goal is stated, when it seems not to be, constitutes "original research" on the part of the editor. Where does Conservapedia state such a mission?
My correction was in perfect order. Please revert your revert. --The Oracle of Podunk 16:44, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
Ahhh...that's better. Thanks, Wisdom89. —Preceding unsigned comment added by The Oracle of Podunk ( talk • contribs) 18:03, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
Re
this change:
The cited sources do confirm that Schlafly and Conservapedia have said this. The derivation of the statistic is indeed unscientific (the words ludicrous and comical might be appropriate, too), but the cited sources do not criticize the statistic, nor do they call it "unscientific."
Dpbsmith
(talk) 02:15, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
Oops, you're right, my apologies.
Dpbsmith
(talk)
02:19, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
Does conservapedia have guidelines similar to wikipedia? Such as NPOV, OR, etc.? I just took a gander at their homosexuality page (hey everyone's doing it) and it is basically one huge hate crime - it repeatedly references completely discredited theories and individuals, and presents as facts almost all of the most disparaging and scientifically inaccurate anti-gay claims ever made. Other than being plain offensive, it leads me to the conclusion that they must not have any of the guidelines that wikipedia does. What exactly are their rules or guidelines, and should this be in the article here? VatoFirme ( talk) 09:26, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
The Conservapedia entry for Moustache seems minimalist and that for Pelagianism appears to contain incorrect information - and I would expect the article on Liberalism to mention Gladstone and others under the European section.
Using the "basic counting of articles" "statistical" method I used previously, Conservapedia still has a higher proportion of unsourced articles than Wikipedia. (I am not going to write the comparative statistical article mentioned above: I am just observing.)
I think "examples of blocking policies", "examples of seemingly bizarre presentations of articles" and "fallacy of 6x general American liberal bias statement" have been flagged often enough for minimal further references to the topics.
As there are repeated references on the talk page to NOR - can "the proverbial someone" do the Wikinfo article, and so resolve the issues mentioned rather than "never decreasing circles" here. Jackiespeel ( talk) 16:52, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | Archive 9 | Archive 10 |
I think it is a more appropriate name. That site is no comedy and some of the strings I have read over there are downright scary. They seem to have a real out-to-get mentality and I sense a bit of paranoia as well. Especially the founder, he gives me the creeps. And yes, they project an elitist attitude far worse than anything I have seen here. That whole public school liberalism versus home schooled conservatism. I pray that they don’t really believe that. I think they give Christians and Conservatives a bad name. -- Baronmarbot 00:02, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
I read on this in Taxon 56(2) and I think it is very funny. I think we should have a Leftpedia, another Liberalpedia (actually Liberapedia, etc, etc, as well. Berton 00:27, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
It maybe something that should be included in the article, if someone can find them.-- 142.68.42.145 05:11, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
No, that would give this article even more of an anti-Conservapedia POV most likely. StaticElectric 04:51, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
I removed the following sections - the statement about Liberalpedia seems like OR; at minimum, a reference to the website being created in response to CP should be provided. Plus, I don't see it as a particularly noteworthy inclusion as is.
The 'ideological' section seems NPOV and OR-ish as well - it's a stretch to say it's for ideological reasons and the history link that's provided as a reference is not a permanent link to those particular edits. Also, the e-mail is essentially unciteable.
A website called Liberapedia has been created in response to Conservapedia, although the objective is apparently more to supply humor than actual educational content.
Although Conservapedia claims not to block users for idealogical reasons, one user was blocked when he tried to edit the Conservapedia entry for Al Gore, merely adding four "Citation Needed" tags. The tags were deleted within 60 seconds and the user was blocked. (The tags were for statements of "fact" that seem to cast a negative light on Gore.)[ [1]] Another user was blocked when he tried to edit the Conservapedia entry for "murder", by adding that soldiers in war are allowed to kill without violating the Sixth Commandment. That user received an e-mail from one of the Conservapedia sysops that said "You're not going to insult our military here!"[ [2]
WLU 13:26, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
Conservapedia now blocks all users who aren't "in good standing" from editing for at least 12-hours a day. That means that only sysops (about 30) and trusted non-sysop characters (less than 10) can edit 24 hours a day, and all other editors are either vandals (90%) or editors legitimately on the site who become discouraged by having their opinions squelched and reverted, and then quit (rolling 10%).
I honestly don't think that Conservapedia can claim to be a wiki anymore. If you suppress all but 30 of your membership, you're not an open project anymore. See the discussion here.
Should the article reflect this somehow?- AmesG 16:56, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
So is it not even worth mentioning? It strikes me as anti-wiki philosophy that the only editors not blocked are conservative Christians.- AmesG 17:03, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
Right, that's what I was afraid of. Downer. And hey Trent :-)- AmesG 17:10, 19 August 2007 (UTC) It is not big enough (yet) to find enough secondary sources on it. Doesn't that mean that you can use less accepted sources? If it calls itself "encyclopedic", does that mean that this wiki should call it an "encyclopedia", just because there is no good secondary source where they have taken the trouble to prove that it does not qualify as an encyclopedia? Corailrouge-eng —The preceding signed but undated comment was added at 21:42, August 20, 2007 (UTC).
The site has gotten even worse. I signed up for an account, and made a few changes on a relatively noncontroversial topic – an article titled "Involuntary bankruptcy", which more resembled a (wrong) definition of the term (it stated that the purpose was to force a debtor into liquidation, which is not always so in an involuntary hearing). I attempted to revise the article to correct the wrong statement and to add small segments on the various sections (Chapter 7, 11, and 13) which come into play in bankruptcy cases. Only to learn that the entire article was blocked from editing. I consider myself a conservative Christian and agree with them on some things (though I strongly disagree with them on others, primarly when they get in to conspiracy theory issues), but I guess you have to be a dues-paying member to make edits. Quidam65 ( talk) 05:36, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
No, creation science is not a commonly accepted neologism. In fact, the only regular use of the term comes from creationists themselves. As such, it is in fact blatant POV pushing on your part to suggest that Creation Science stay. Even here on wikipedia, Creation science is defined as creationists' attempts to find scientific support for creationism, and even that definition is generous. At present, there is absolutely no research going on to prove or disprove testable hypothesis concerning any origins found in the Bible.
Finally, in searching Webster's Dictionary, I didn't find creation science, but I did find creationism. If Webster's sees fit to add words such as D'oh! to the dictionary but not creation science, your claim that creation science is a widely accepted neologism looks especially specious. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bynoceros ( talk • contribs) 13:50, August 21, 2007 (UTC).
Creation Science is not commonly used by ANYONE EXCEPT CREATIONISTS, and the fact that the wikientry says as much in the first sentence should be a clue.
Finally, in regards to your mind-numbing display of pedantry, I hate to break it to you, but other people in the world are just as bright as you, and dithering on about neologisms when the term in question has been around for at least forty years in the fudamentalist community is the epitome of irony. Creation Science is not a neologism; D'oh as I mentioned in my previous example is, and MW is doing a fantastic job of adding three or four year old words to the dictionary in each subsequent addition.
To summarize: 1) Creation Science, having been around for forty years plus, is not a neologism; 2) the wikiarticle on creation science explicitly states that it is a term used for and by creationists, and; 3) the term itself is an oxymoron. In the paster, there was the term of astrological science, yet today, no thinking person would make the mistake of lumping astrology in with science. Just because you are willing to allow fundamentalists leeway to term their sophistry as anything more than pseudoscience doesn't actually make it correct. I am reverting to perspective of creationism. Call things by their proper names instead of trolling around in defense of intellectual dishonesty. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.254.237.92 ( talk)
Even more irony. If you’ll notice, the first google link is to a book by Nick Matzke in which he destroys the concept that creation science is in fact science. Moreover, said link references creation science as defined in the 1981 Arkansas court case in which the Supreme Court ruled that creationism is not in fact science.
In fact, among the first ten links, six are from creationist/intelligent design sources (e.g. letters to the editor, Answers in Genesis). Three more are either referencing the lunacy of the term creation science or simply quoting creationists. The only instance in which the term is not used either derisively or by creationists comes from a Baptist university in North Carolina, and even then the articles speaks of a professor speaking out against the vacuity of the “DOCTRINE of creation science.”
My point all along has been and is that, by using the term creation science, one is not maintaining an NPOV. In fact, one is decidedly casting creationism in a pro-creationism light, given, and I'm getting to the point of ad nauseum here, that ONLY CREATIONISTS USE THE TERM, AND WHEN NON-CREATIONISTS USE THE TERM THEY ARE EITHER REFERRING TO THE TERM AS USED BY CREATIONIISTS OR USING THE TERM TONGUE IN CHEEK.
Are we going to maintain NPOV or aren't we. If we are, the term is creationism. If we're going to bow down to the fringe group, keep using creation science. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.239.163.141 ( talk) 13:24, August 23, 2007 (UTC)
Look, it appears that we're all on the *same team*, but that, given the fact that I can't see faces or hear tones some things are being interpreted in a hostile way when they probably aren't intended as such. My point was not that creation science is never used, only that it is used by creationists or folks who simply don't know better. Back in the 80's, the Big Bang Theory was still referred to as the Big Bang hypothesis every once in a while by the non-scientific community, even though it had basically decimated the steady state theory by that point. By the same token, creation science is accidentally used by the non-scientific public sporadically (i.e. the Wired article), but nearly all journalists and all scientists use the term creationism when referring to fundamentalists' Christian beliefs concerning the origin of the universe. I am reverting to perspective of creationism, not to be a jerk or an edit fascist (or whatever the appropriate term may be), but to generate attention so that you come to to the talk page and we can hammer this out.
I feel quite strongly that the term should be creationism; that creation science only abets the loonies and, that; creation 'science' is only used as a misnomer or by folks who really believe that the earth was created 7,000 years after the first recorded instance of the Cherokee people. Cheers to all. Sorry about the militance before.
_______
An encyclopedia is not the proper venue for proving a point about the appropriateness of a word or phrase. The terminology "creation science" is well-known, documented in the American Heritage dictionary, and is featured as an article here at Wikipedia. It is the term that has been applied by creationists to the career their leaders have chosen.
That the term makes a mockery of real science is irrelevant. The term Christian Science makes a mockery of both science and Christianity, as that religion is neither scientific nor Christian in nature. Yet it is how we refer to that religion, as it is known by that title. We don't go making up new names for it, or using some other term that is grammatically incorrect, just to avoid calling it by a title that we think is ridiculous.
Creationism is a set of beliefs based on the notion that life, the universe, and everything was created. Creation Science is the pursuit of observable evidence for creation. There is really only one rule for us to follow: use proper grammar. When discussing creationist beliefs, the term to use is creationism; and when discussing the effort to prove creationism true, the term to use is Creation Science, since that is the term by which it is known.
The Oracle of Podunk 03:12, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
_______
Conservapedia has sanctions as a disctinguishing feature. They are on the commandments page. That is reason enough to leave the section on them in the wiki. I propose to put the section back in place Corailrouge-eng 20:59, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
Absolutely. Conservapedia threatens anyone who vandalises it with 10 years imprisonment under US Federal Law. This is of course quite bogus, since the statute cited relates to interfering with government or commercial traffic which Conservapedia is not, but also what constitutes vandalism in the eyes of the self-named "Bureaucrats" who police the Conservapedia could well be highly subjective- such as the use of British English. Although there is probably much less peer review, the small size of Conservapedia (20,000+ entries cf. wikipeidia 8.5 million) enables a small number of Mr Schafly's bulldogs to patrol it for ideological rectitude. Streona 20:29, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
In the article, it compares Conservapedia's 9 commandments to only two of Wikipedia's five pillars, not even mentioning the rest of the policies and guidelines. Is this a biased comparison? -- JDitto 02:07, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
Conservapedia is impossible to navigate. When browsing it (i spent an hour frustrated with it this morning... not the most accurate assessment i guess), you will find that every single article is blocked from editing. Later on, my username was banned for the reason of "please chose another name" (don't understand why "itsnotmyfault" is an illegitimate username to begin with). to discuss the block, the site invites me to post an edit to the blocker's (or other admin's) discussion page... a little hard to do when A) every article is protected and B) you're blocked from posting... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.249.110.111 ( talk) 13:19, August 25, 2007 (UTC)
What is the name of the logical misdirection of which "A Conservative Encyclopedia You Can Trust." is an example - are there conservative encyclopedias which cannot be trusted etc (and some non-US conservative encyclopedias which can)?
Can someone do an archive on this talk page. Jackiespeel 15:30, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Again, this page is for discussion of the Wikipedia page on Conservapedia, not for discussion of Conservapedia itself. StaticElectric 16:33, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
I was asking for a definition/link (g). IMO most of the discussions about Conservapedia, its USPs and what people here think of it have already been gone through - and the meta-analysis of the various Wikis and their USPs belongs in another place. Jackiespeel 17:37, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
A friend of mine recently joined Conservapedia. [3] In it, he posted a section on the user talk page labeled 'Bias,' [4] and challenged its views toward Wikipedia and bias in articles ( [5]). Within the hour that he posted this, several notable editors jumped in and added their own opinions, the editors being the owner of the site, Aschlafy, as well as major editors iDuan and Rob Smith. In addition, the user Joaquin Martinez decided to send him a message saying "We're glad you are here to edit articles better than to Talk. OK?," my friend stated that he was trying to learn via discussion, which is his favored way of learning, rather than simply editing articles. However, this immediately sparked a remark from his friend, --şŷŝôρ-₮K, who criticized him for his lack of editing, and questioned his Christian morals. He even made the case that my friend's comment on grammar was racist because Joaquin was apparently Mexican. He left him with two comments: 1)"Know that I will indeed be watching you 2) so don't be surprised, shocked or dismayed not to be able to edit at any time.
My friend and I are outraged at this injustice. It seems that whenever someone comes on with a differing opinion to Conservapedia's views, they are ridiculed and "watched." This is clearly a group of high-up editors banding together to control this wiki. No self-respecting non-biased encyclopedia would do this, so I propose two things:
You do not have free speech rights on someone else's Web site, Conservapedia or Wikipedia. In particular this entire discussion does not belong here. As StaticElectric points out above "this page is for discussion of the Wikipedia page on Conservapedia, not for discussion of Conservapedia itself."-- agr 09:49, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
Some of the Conservapedia editors (especially Andy Schlafly) do have a history of incivility: personal attacks, flaming, etc. If criticism shows up in "reputable sources" then would it be eligible for inclusion? The decision would have to be careful since it would probably show up in Andy's "Examples of Bias in Wikipedia" page/rant on Conservapedia. - Pingveno ( talk | contrib ) 22:07, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Surely this phrase which keeps popping up in the wiki article is POV? "Percieved liberal bias" would be a better wording. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.7.11.98 ( talk) 11:53, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
While I appreciate that edits such as this raise the ire of Wikipedia editors, I wonder at the inclusion of the information that "The site had 13,000 registered usernames of which about 7,000 were permanently blocked (about 54%)." This seems designed exclusively as a crowing contrast to the enormity of Wikipedia itself, any thoughts? Mallocks 12:04, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
This article reads like it's on Conservapedia itself. I'm not sure what can be done other than a wipe and restart. Is anyone who's not a regular Conservapedia editor working on this article? Simões ( talk/ contribs) 03:08, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
As a side note to those unfamiliar with American politics - or familiar with it and understandably baffled - in certain circles, "liberal" equates with "bad". It's used by many conservatives (e.g. "liberal media bias" that Fox fans and their associates talk about, "liberal agenda" as a path to socialism, even the term "bleeding heart liberal"). Rush Limbaugh and Michael Savage are good examples of people who decry things as liberal in this sense. Hillary Clinton in one debate summed it up when she was asked about considering herself a liberal and she said something to the effect of "the term 'liberal' has been used so negatively so often that I'd have to say 'progressive' instead". So whereas in some countries "liberal" might be a good adjective, in US politics, yes, it's almost a slur depending on who's using it. Luatha 19:50, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
Maybe we could include some information about the Big Word that some Conservapedia users have learned: "Pedantic". The word has been redefined as "any writing by one that disagrees with me". They don't use it correctly but it's so widespread on the site that it's practically a culture reference. 71.35.252.65 04:30, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
Sorry but that's been bugging me. I mean I know they spell it "Conservapedia" but it just doesn't look right. Serendipod ous 10:35, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
Since this bit was removed and inserted a few times now, it may be an idea to duke it out here.
Maybe I can start this by giving some general info (no third-party sources to my knowledge; just so editors have a rough idea what's going on): Yes, several articles on CP are plagiarized. As a matter of fact, Andrew Schlafly explicitly encourages copy-paste jobs as long as the source is a .gov site (with the exclusion of state sites or something).
The reasoning being: "We paid for work on government websites. It's ours already. It's not just public domain, but it is also bought and paid for by the public. So it's fine to copy unbiased material from such sites. Of course the entries can and should then be improved. But it helps having a start, and having a succinct explanation." (Andrew Schlafly, July 2, 2007)
(Trivia: Schlafly also has this to say about Wikipedia: "Moreover, is copying OK to 'kickstart' a project? No, of course not, especially when attribution is not prominently given for such wholesale copying." - don't ask me how the two statements fit together, especially since their government copy-paste jobs are not always marked as such...)
As such, the copying from .gov sites can be horribly obvious on a "good day". Especially during their official "team contests" (the second one ended a few hours ago), where teams get points for creating articles, no matter if they're copy-paste jobs or not.
I actually sometimes took the time to check the New Article log for obvious copy-paste jobs, with quite interesting results: June 23 check (a day on which the sysops suddenly declared that they wanted to break the record for the most new articles per day); first 12 hours of the first team contest day. Even browsing those lists briefly shows how common the copy-paste jobs are.
These cases are legal (I guess... I'm no expert there), but they go against the first commandment ("Do not copy from Wikipedia or elsewhere unless it was your original work.").
However, it doesn't really end there. Quite a few articles are plagiarized/copied from copyrighted sources. Those cases are often removed on sight, but sometimes, the sysops do the copying, and then the motto seems to be "Don't remove it; edit it so it's not a direct copy anymore". It's cringeworthy, but it happens. In some cases, the sysops (once confronted) ask the source site for permission. Sometimes, they heavily lean on re-use policies to justify the copy-pasting.
Summing up: The edit in question is factual and verifiable by looking around, but I don't know of any Notable/Reliable Source that covers it. I'll leave it to the more policy-experienced editors to figure out what to do with this. I just felt like sharing some insight and maybe start discussion on the "Should we include it? If so, how?" questions. -- Sid 3050 01:15, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
Just wondering if it should be mentioned that the staff of Conservapedia reported vandalism to the FBI and after being ridiculed about it being ignored started to ban anyone who mentioned it? Archived talk pages: http://www.conservapedia.com/User_talk:Aschlafly/Archive26#FBI and http://www.conservapedia.com/User_talk:Aschlafly/Archive26#Prosecuting_Vandals RationalWiki article including some deleted bits from the talk pages and a list of those banned for mentioning the FBI since the event: http://www.rationalwiki.com/wiki/Conservapedia:FBI_Incident 193.120.116.178 15:56, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
Then some of these references should be revised. They are pretty much WP:OR, according to many reverts I've seen here. -- Equidistant 12:52, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
Just like articles, as they please? - Dukered 02:22, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
Some Related Articles I put ( Christian right, Conservatism, Fundamentalist Christianity, Right-wing politics, Neoconservatism, Homeschooling) have been reverted, yet I haven't seen a strong argument to do so. MCgeddon says that it's "broad and borderline-POV ... these should be sourced in the body text of the article (and some already are), rather than bolted lazily on)", while Hut 8.5 repeats the same thing (to claim "consensus" later on Hut?) Wisdom 89 alleges that I'm trying to prove a point, using TW.
On that basis, virtually every article on Wikipedia shouldn't have "Related Articles" or the "See Also" section, since everything should be "covered in the body of text". Sincerely, I'd like to see some reasoning here. Equidistant 19:57, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
Conservapedia has no article for vagina, penis, erection and masturbation and only 9 lines for the sex article, however the homosexuality article is over 250 lines long and is referenced to 179 documents. Perhaps this kind of bias should be mentioned in the Wikipedia article.-- 217.44.82.230 11:42, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
Conservapedia considers the Enlightenment to be an atheistic hoax. Alloco1 22:18, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
The homosexuality article is also a anti-gay screed. It seems like it is the point of the site to be anti gay.
The entire 'encyclopedia' is just concentrated idiocy that's point is to be anti-everything that scares them. There is absolutely no mention of hate crimes against homosexuals in that particular article on Conservapedia, for example. Personally, I think Wikipedia should just completely ignore that site. It can do no good to mention it here, it'll just spread the word and give Conservdoesn'tknowhowtospellapedia another reason to badmouth Wikipedia. It's not up to me though, I hardly ever comment anyway.-- 24.192.224.242 ( talk) 15:42, 6 December 2007 (UTC)Hermesscholar
Maybe they are not anti-gay, just anti-gay marriage, like how a lot of people are not anti-white, just anti-KKK. Do you have any examples from the article showing they are anti-gay?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.234.198.154 ( talk • contribs) 19:37, 10 December 2007
Wow. I never thought I'd see the act of marriage described as morally equivalent to joining a hate-driven terrorist organization. Thanks for destroying my faith in humanity. -- SCJE ( talk) 08:32, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
http://www.conservapedia.com/Conservapedia:Commandments
I quote: "Minors under 16 years old use this site. Posting of obscenity here is punishable by up to 10 years in jail under 18 USC § 1470. Vandalism is punishable up to 10 years in jail per 18 USC § 1030. The IP addresses of vandals will be reported to authorities. That includes your employer and your local prosecutor."
I know we can't take this straight from the page, as that would constitute original research (I suppose Conservapedia has no such rule from what I've seen of its material), but this kind of threat—which they have in the past acted on—is clearly abhorrent and completely contrary to the purposes of the wiki software that these insects stole and shamelessly trashed. Anyway, I'm sure most of the editors here are aware of this little bit, as much as it has been paraded around. That this has been mentioned in countless blogs (or at least one: http://crankydaze.blogspot.com/2007/03/conservapedia.html) and been parodied at least on Uncyclopedia and ED (which perhaps ought not be included considering its blacklisted status) should or could count for something. I'm sure some "notable" source will eventually pick up on it if Conservapedia doesn't die in the meantime, but I really think this should be somehow included, seeing as how Wikipedia uses the Wiki software and Conservapedia is fairly notable and all that. Bloodbeard 15:25, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
Block quote Major policies that the party has recently supported include a neoconservative foreign policy, including War on Terror, liberations of Afghanistan and Iraq, strong support for democracy especially in the Middle East, and 'distrust of the United Nations due to the organization's incompetent bureaucracy, anti-capitalist undertone, corruption on the Security Council and in UN humanitarian programs'
That is in conservapedia in the republican party article. I think we all know whether its biased or not
Why is an article on RW not allowed if this article is allowed to stand? Either allow both or allow neither - to do anything else would be hypocritical. Concernedcitizen102 19:22, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
Can someone explain to me why we cannot have an article on Rationalwiki without the childish legal mumbo jumbo. Concernedcitizen102 19:35, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
Rationalwiki was mentioned in the LA Times article on conservapedia. Just because YOU happen to believe it is not notable doesn't make it so. Concernedcitizen102 19:39, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
So I'm glad you like the site!!!!- AmesG 03:09, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
Wisdom89, why did you revert this edit?
The claimed primary goal of the Conservapedia article is to create a "trustworthy encyclopedia." This goal is given such emphasis that they've made it the subtitle or slogan for their site. It appears in the upper-left corner of every page on their site, as part of their logo.
It seems to me that the first-stated goal of the Conservapedia project should be mentioned in Wikipedia's article about it. Don't you agree?
So I added it. But a few hours later you reverted it.
You made no Talk page comment about your deletion, and your edit summary is confusing to me. Your edit summary said, "The less original research we have in this article the better." Why did you call quoting that subtitle WP:OR? Did you think that I came up with the subtitle myself? Did you, perhaps, overlook the "trustworthy encyclopedia" subtitle in the upper-left corner of every page on their site? NCdave 07:50, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
I ask this question because the article says it is "an English-language wiki-based web encyclopedia project..." True, it is a project, still young (one year this month), but is it an encyclopedia? So far, Conservapedia essentially fails as a reference site. It seems more like a political forum. Just take a good look at it. And *please* don't say that would break the NOR rule, 'cause this is basic. Flor Silvestre 21:18, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
em...sorry...but... it WOULD break the NOR rule - if describes itself as an encyclopedia, that's how we describe it. If you can find sources that say those things then we can add them in the relevent sections but not the lead-in. -- Fredrick day 21:41, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
“ | a book or set of books giving information on many subjects or on many aspects of one subject and typically arranged alphabetically. | ” |
This article ends rather weirdly, just stopping at a random point. there needs to be a concluding section, perhaps about CP's future, or its context in the wider world. Perhaps the material to draw on isn't there yet, but the article ending does kind of hang in mid-air. Incidentally, this is not a call to add uncited speculation. Totnesmartin ( talk) 19:20, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
I've put the title back to "Accusations of Censorship". The first title is both not NPOV and is not supported by the sources. JoshuaZ ( talk) 23:33, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
According to the Conservapedia statistics page, the most often searched topics as of 10/20/2007 are: Homosexuality (1,505,034 views), Homosexuality and Hepatitis (516,277), Homosexuality and Promiscuity (417,416), Homosexuality and Parasites (387,532), Homosexuality and Domestic Violence (333,452), Homosexuality and Gonorrhea (328,632), Gay Bowel Syndrome (322,735), Homosexuality and Syphilis (262,583), and Homosexuality and Mental Health (257,560).
So it appears that a large percentage of Conservapedia's audience is interested in homosexuality. Had topics regarding homosexuality placed only a few of the top page ranks, it might not be considered newsworthy. However, save the main page, articles regarding homosexuality outrank every other conservative issue (such as abortion, the Bible, the Commandments, terrorism, etc...) out there. This might be something to consider writing about. Dinjiin ( talk) 03:47, 21 November 2007 (UTC)Dinjiin
Assuming this was "probably the result of click bots" what is the purpose of mentioning it in the section "Creationism, conservatism, and bias"? Perhaps there should be a new section on "Attacks" where it might be relevant (although I imagine they consider any attempt at introducing any facts counter to their particular POV as an attack). With its current wording and placement, I can't think of a reason for including it. -- Rick Block ( talk) 16:48, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
The LA Times article includes the sentence "A glance at an entry's history -- which shows editing over time -- makes clear how quickly dissenting views are deleted." - what are other editors' opinions on how we should use this quote? Is the writer talking about a single article (the breast cancer article that she goes on to discuss), or does she mean "any article"? Is the line sufficiently ambiguous that we can't really conclude anything from it?
The current version of the Wikipedia article uses this quote to conclude that "Conservapedia's sysops quickly delete dissenting views added to its articles on science and medicine.", but this seems like too much of a generalisation (and perhaps credits the Conservapedia sysops with too much omniscience). What do we think? -- McGeddon ( talk) 18:38, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
I discovered conservapedia last night and basically laughed out loud the whole night nonstop. Anyhow, seeing how the project seems to be serious from it's editors, I hope wikipedia does not get caught up in their accusations and react in anyway. I did find one line in the article here: "Such accusations are not found in Wikipedia's article.[20]" which seems to be a provoked response to Conservapedia. I think it's best to refrain from starting a fight of any sort and to remain objective. The title of this article is 'Conservapedia' not 'Comparisons of Wikipedia and Convervapedia'. So I'm removing that one line, hope no one has a problem with that. Abhishekbh ( talk) 15:38, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
The Daily Show reference was removed today. The Daily Show is very notable, is it worth a mention? Perhaps not as a criticism, but as a reaction? I'm trying to find the video and having little luck. WLU ( talk) 21:22, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
Try Youtube, 'Wikipedia & Youtube: liberal bias' or something like that. I found it while looking for last laugh 07. Lewis Black talks about it, and it's hilarious. However, Lewis Black isn't exactly the most neutral guy in the world, so you might want to reconsider before putting that link on a website that has such a liberal bias already... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.192.224.242 ( talk) 15:52, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
The question has arisen whether " Wikipedia presents evolution as a biological process defined by observable, empirical, and measurable evidence, subject to specific principles of reasoning." is less correct than " Wikipedia presents evolution as a biological scientific theory defined by observable, empirical, and measurable evidence, subject to specific principles of reasoning." I submit it is more correct; the sentence describes the process of evolution, which is observable, and not the theory, which is not. Further, Wikipedia's article on evolution begins by presenting the observable fact of evolution, and doesn't mention "theory" until the third paragraph. "Process" is correct here. - Nunh-huh 05:19, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
Can you both live with the following:
The point is that Conservapedia claims evolution is only a theory (indeed, "evolution" is a redirect to "theory of evolution") while Wikipedia's article on evolution describes a process that the theory explains. Note I've deleted the reference to Newton, who certainly didn't have anything to say about Wikipedia's article. I actually think it would be best to find a secondary source describing both Conservapedia's and Wikipedia's articles about evolution rather than these summaries which border on WP:OR. -- Rick Block ( talk) 20:36, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
Wisdom89,
In the Conservapedia article, the claim that Conservapedia has the "stated goal" of being oriented toward right-wing Christian views is not verifiable. Anyone who bothers to visit Conservapedia and look for such a statement will come up empty-handed. It is indeed obvious that this is what Conservapedia is all about, but there is no such mission statement at Conservapedia.
Thus, the correct way to note the site's bias is to say it is "apparent" rather than to say it is a "stated" gaol, when no such statement is made. To say the goal is stated, when it seems not to be, constitutes "original research" on the part of the editor. Where does Conservapedia state such a mission?
My correction was in perfect order. Please revert your revert. --The Oracle of Podunk 16:44, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
Ahhh...that's better. Thanks, Wisdom89. —Preceding unsigned comment added by The Oracle of Podunk ( talk • contribs) 18:03, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
Re
this change:
The cited sources do confirm that Schlafly and Conservapedia have said this. The derivation of the statistic is indeed unscientific (the words ludicrous and comical might be appropriate, too), but the cited sources do not criticize the statistic, nor do they call it "unscientific."
Dpbsmith
(talk) 02:15, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
Oops, you're right, my apologies.
Dpbsmith
(talk)
02:19, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
Does conservapedia have guidelines similar to wikipedia? Such as NPOV, OR, etc.? I just took a gander at their homosexuality page (hey everyone's doing it) and it is basically one huge hate crime - it repeatedly references completely discredited theories and individuals, and presents as facts almost all of the most disparaging and scientifically inaccurate anti-gay claims ever made. Other than being plain offensive, it leads me to the conclusion that they must not have any of the guidelines that wikipedia does. What exactly are their rules or guidelines, and should this be in the article here? VatoFirme ( talk) 09:26, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
The Conservapedia entry for Moustache seems minimalist and that for Pelagianism appears to contain incorrect information - and I would expect the article on Liberalism to mention Gladstone and others under the European section.
Using the "basic counting of articles" "statistical" method I used previously, Conservapedia still has a higher proportion of unsourced articles than Wikipedia. (I am not going to write the comparative statistical article mentioned above: I am just observing.)
I think "examples of blocking policies", "examples of seemingly bizarre presentations of articles" and "fallacy of 6x general American liberal bias statement" have been flagged often enough for minimal further references to the topics.
As there are repeated references on the talk page to NOR - can "the proverbial someone" do the Wikinfo article, and so resolve the issues mentioned rather than "never decreasing circles" here. Jackiespeel ( talk) 16:52, 28 December 2007 (UTC)