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you can't denied it after such a great campaign, it could be better anyway.
Anyway, my question: Anyone know how many indians or what percentage of the indiand were murder iduring the campaign? I know that almost all of them, but there a few survived. It would be great if this is cited
Guys, the spanish title should go and "Conquest of the Desert" just doesn't sound right... maybe "Desert Campaign" or "Desert Conquest"? The name sounds very lame. -- Sebastian Kessel Talk 23:42, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
I removed the unreferenced mention to John Evans because I considered it and undocumented fact somehow superfluous. Mariano( t/ c) 09:07, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
I'm sorry I have to revert 200.45.61.35 ( talk · contribs)'s edits, but they were unsourced, and contained some POV phrases. It would be nice though to include a Critics or Civilización o Barvarie section, with official and unofficial numbers, and some interesting quotes. Mariano( t/ c) 09:57, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
I sugest you read Carlos Martínez Sarasola's Nuestros Paisanos Los Indios and a number of other books which strongly support the use of the word genocide regarding the Conquest of the Desert. May be that will give you some hint before censoring my contributions here.
Marcelo - Salta
Currently the article claims "The campaign is perceived by some as a campaign of genocide" this is a classic weasel worded phrase. Who are the people who say it? This sentence needs qualifying with the best reliable academic sources that claim it was a genocide. -- Philip Baird Shearer 19:25, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
I suppose there are some valid parallels between the 'frontier experience' of the United States and that of Argentina. For both countries the issue became of growing concern during and after a major war; in the case of the United States the Civil War, and in the case of Argentina the War of the Triple Alliance. Also in both cases the growing conflict with the indigenous peoples began with measures concerning the distribution of the 'virgin' lands; America introduced the Homestead Act in 1862 and Argentina the Land Act of 1867, the effects of which were to be similar in both cases. Moreover, relations between central government and the the natives was marked by bad-faith and broken promises, and the usual weary pattern of reprisals and counter reprisals. And in Julio Roca Argentia was blessed with its own version of Philip Sheridan. Roca, who led the successful campaign against the Indians in the Conquest of the Desert, declared in 1879 that "In the struggle for existence...the weaker race must perish in the face of the one favoured by nature."
However, for Argentina the 'problem of the frontiers' was, if anything even more acute. In the 1870s the Indians controlled a far greater proportion of the country. From the core of settlement around Buenos Aires, there were effectively two frontiers, one to the north and the other to the south. Argentina's European population was considerably smaller than that of the United States. During the 1850s, a time of internal political strife, the provinces of Buenos Aires, Sant Fe and Cordoba were particularly badly hit by Indian raids. What was worse, the Ranqueles and the Araucanians, and other tribes, were ignoring the lines of territorial demarcation, previously agreed in a treaty with Juan Manuel Rosas in 1833. The outbreak of the war with Paraguay in 1865 forced the government to temporise by a process of appeasement. Encouraged by concessions on the frontier the tribes became that much bolder. In one particularly serious raid in Cordoba province in 1868 the Indians made off with 200 captives and 20,000 head of cattle.
At the end of the Paraguay war in 1870 Argentina was able to turn its large army towards a resolution of the internal problem. The 1867 Land Act, passed by the government of Bartolome Mitre, in allowing public land to pass into private hands, was more than enough motivation for 'rolling back the frontier.' The huge cattle industry, demanding every greater amounts of pasture, also required an immediate solution to the Indian problem. Added to this, growing immigration from Europe was creating new pressures. The final spur to action, if any such were needed, came in 1876, when Chief Mariano Rosas of the Ranqueles penetrated the frontier defences at three points, before raiding and devastating a huge area of the settled countryside. The hardliners now had all the excuse they needed for the final conquest of the vast lands of Patagonia. Clio the Muse 23:45, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
Hi. The last independent cacique was Sayhueque. He surrendered on Jan 1st, 1885. Bye. Lin linao 00:28, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
These rifles were purchased by the Argentine government from the privately-owned Remington Arms Company. The United States government had nothing to do with the transaction. as implied by the "supplied by the United States" wording. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.213.192.187 ( talk) 01:07, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
The latest wording from Argentina's Foreign Secretary is that Britain would be involved in a war against Argentina 130 years ago. I have not read the article word by word, but I do not know where it would confirm or disconfirm an act of military involvvement by the UK. This is basicaly the only thing that happened in South America 130 years ago. Anything else to be added? -- 82.134.28.194 ( talk) 11:03, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
Removed the genocide series. It was a regular 19th century conflict, the term genocide is not justified. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.136.211.39 ( talk) 22:38, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
President Sarmiento was an ideologist of the desert campaign, giving the idea of indian territories as "deserts" habitated by "barbarians" giving the idea that the only solution was "civilization" by the extermination of the barbarians. I will recall a quote in Spanish from scholar investigator.
"¿Lograremos exterminar los indios? Por los salvajes de América siento una invencible repugnancia sin poderlo remediar. (…) Incapaces de
progreso. Su exterminio es providencial y útil, sublime y grande. Se los debe exterminar sin ni siquiera perdonar al pequeño, que tiene ya el odio instintivo al hombre civilizado” (Sarmiento D. F, 1844).[...] “Quisiéramos apartar de toda cuestión social americana a los salvajes…” “En
las provincias viven animales bípedos de tan perversa condición que no sé qué se obtenga con tratarlos mejor”(Sarmiento D. F, 1863).
— Marcelino Fontán Lic. en Ciencias Antropológicas, Universidad de Buenos Aires. [1]
I didn't find any mention of this early ideas promoting later the Conquest of the desert. I think an extra section in the article is needed to develop this ideas, promoted by Sarmiento, president Mitre, and some wings of Catholic church.-- Bsea ( talk) 11:58, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
What has the paragraph about the Guardian article got to do with the subject of this Wikipedia article? I intend to remove this paragraph if its relevance isn't justified by rational argument. Ttocserp 13:55, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
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To say that Chile relinquishes (abandons) their claims on Patagonia and that Argentina's power rises due to this conquest are both simple historical conclusions based on previously stated facts. This is simple historical dialectics. To expect a source on this is inconsistent and unnecessary, especially given that it doesn't state nor claim anything new.
Moreover, if this request for sources were to be kept, then we'd have a ton of problems with other articles about wars as their infoboxes with results would have to be filled with the very aesthetically-pleasing and confidence-inspiring [citation needed] mark. Indeed, something as obvious as saying "Argentine victory and emancipation from Spanish colonial rule" in this article would have to be removed or put the mark on. Do you see my point? Fasscass ( talk) 22:23, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
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you can't denied it after such a great campaign, it could be better anyway.
Anyway, my question: Anyone know how many indians or what percentage of the indiand were murder iduring the campaign? I know that almost all of them, but there a few survived. It would be great if this is cited
Guys, the spanish title should go and "Conquest of the Desert" just doesn't sound right... maybe "Desert Campaign" or "Desert Conquest"? The name sounds very lame. -- Sebastian Kessel Talk 23:42, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
I removed the unreferenced mention to John Evans because I considered it and undocumented fact somehow superfluous. Mariano( t/ c) 09:07, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
I'm sorry I have to revert 200.45.61.35 ( talk · contribs)'s edits, but they were unsourced, and contained some POV phrases. It would be nice though to include a Critics or Civilización o Barvarie section, with official and unofficial numbers, and some interesting quotes. Mariano( t/ c) 09:57, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
I sugest you read Carlos Martínez Sarasola's Nuestros Paisanos Los Indios and a number of other books which strongly support the use of the word genocide regarding the Conquest of the Desert. May be that will give you some hint before censoring my contributions here.
Marcelo - Salta
Currently the article claims "The campaign is perceived by some as a campaign of genocide" this is a classic weasel worded phrase. Who are the people who say it? This sentence needs qualifying with the best reliable academic sources that claim it was a genocide. -- Philip Baird Shearer 19:25, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
I suppose there are some valid parallels between the 'frontier experience' of the United States and that of Argentina. For both countries the issue became of growing concern during and after a major war; in the case of the United States the Civil War, and in the case of Argentina the War of the Triple Alliance. Also in both cases the growing conflict with the indigenous peoples began with measures concerning the distribution of the 'virgin' lands; America introduced the Homestead Act in 1862 and Argentina the Land Act of 1867, the effects of which were to be similar in both cases. Moreover, relations between central government and the the natives was marked by bad-faith and broken promises, and the usual weary pattern of reprisals and counter reprisals. And in Julio Roca Argentia was blessed with its own version of Philip Sheridan. Roca, who led the successful campaign against the Indians in the Conquest of the Desert, declared in 1879 that "In the struggle for existence...the weaker race must perish in the face of the one favoured by nature."
However, for Argentina the 'problem of the frontiers' was, if anything even more acute. In the 1870s the Indians controlled a far greater proportion of the country. From the core of settlement around Buenos Aires, there were effectively two frontiers, one to the north and the other to the south. Argentina's European population was considerably smaller than that of the United States. During the 1850s, a time of internal political strife, the provinces of Buenos Aires, Sant Fe and Cordoba were particularly badly hit by Indian raids. What was worse, the Ranqueles and the Araucanians, and other tribes, were ignoring the lines of territorial demarcation, previously agreed in a treaty with Juan Manuel Rosas in 1833. The outbreak of the war with Paraguay in 1865 forced the government to temporise by a process of appeasement. Encouraged by concessions on the frontier the tribes became that much bolder. In one particularly serious raid in Cordoba province in 1868 the Indians made off with 200 captives and 20,000 head of cattle.
At the end of the Paraguay war in 1870 Argentina was able to turn its large army towards a resolution of the internal problem. The 1867 Land Act, passed by the government of Bartolome Mitre, in allowing public land to pass into private hands, was more than enough motivation for 'rolling back the frontier.' The huge cattle industry, demanding every greater amounts of pasture, also required an immediate solution to the Indian problem. Added to this, growing immigration from Europe was creating new pressures. The final spur to action, if any such were needed, came in 1876, when Chief Mariano Rosas of the Ranqueles penetrated the frontier defences at three points, before raiding and devastating a huge area of the settled countryside. The hardliners now had all the excuse they needed for the final conquest of the vast lands of Patagonia. Clio the Muse 23:45, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
Hi. The last independent cacique was Sayhueque. He surrendered on Jan 1st, 1885. Bye. Lin linao 00:28, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
These rifles were purchased by the Argentine government from the privately-owned Remington Arms Company. The United States government had nothing to do with the transaction. as implied by the "supplied by the United States" wording. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.213.192.187 ( talk) 01:07, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
The latest wording from Argentina's Foreign Secretary is that Britain would be involved in a war against Argentina 130 years ago. I have not read the article word by word, but I do not know where it would confirm or disconfirm an act of military involvvement by the UK. This is basicaly the only thing that happened in South America 130 years ago. Anything else to be added? -- 82.134.28.194 ( talk) 11:03, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
Removed the genocide series. It was a regular 19th century conflict, the term genocide is not justified. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.136.211.39 ( talk) 22:38, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
President Sarmiento was an ideologist of the desert campaign, giving the idea of indian territories as "deserts" habitated by "barbarians" giving the idea that the only solution was "civilization" by the extermination of the barbarians. I will recall a quote in Spanish from scholar investigator.
"¿Lograremos exterminar los indios? Por los salvajes de América siento una invencible repugnancia sin poderlo remediar. (…) Incapaces de
progreso. Su exterminio es providencial y útil, sublime y grande. Se los debe exterminar sin ni siquiera perdonar al pequeño, que tiene ya el odio instintivo al hombre civilizado” (Sarmiento D. F, 1844).[...] “Quisiéramos apartar de toda cuestión social americana a los salvajes…” “En
las provincias viven animales bípedos de tan perversa condición que no sé qué se obtenga con tratarlos mejor”(Sarmiento D. F, 1863).
— Marcelino Fontán Lic. en Ciencias Antropológicas, Universidad de Buenos Aires. [1]
I didn't find any mention of this early ideas promoting later the Conquest of the desert. I think an extra section in the article is needed to develop this ideas, promoted by Sarmiento, president Mitre, and some wings of Catholic church.-- Bsea ( talk) 11:58, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
What has the paragraph about the Guardian article got to do with the subject of this Wikipedia article? I intend to remove this paragraph if its relevance isn't justified by rational argument. Ttocserp 13:55, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 5 external links on Conquest of the Desert. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 07:36, 12 August 2017 (UTC)
To say that Chile relinquishes (abandons) their claims on Patagonia and that Argentina's power rises due to this conquest are both simple historical conclusions based on previously stated facts. This is simple historical dialectics. To expect a source on this is inconsistent and unnecessary, especially given that it doesn't state nor claim anything new.
Moreover, if this request for sources were to be kept, then we'd have a ton of problems with other articles about wars as their infoboxes with results would have to be filled with the very aesthetically-pleasing and confidence-inspiring [citation needed] mark. Indeed, something as obvious as saying "Argentine victory and emancipation from Spanish colonial rule" in this article would have to be removed or put the mark on. Do you see my point? Fasscass ( talk) 22:23, 18 June 2021 (UTC)