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Connacht spelling used in the article as it is by far the most common version used, rather than the older english spelling of Connaught.
Connaught is to Connacht what Peking is to Beijing. In phases during the twentieth century a group of clumsily anglicised gaelic names (Leix for Laois, Dunleary for Dun Laoghaire) were phased out (in reality, binned) and replaced by their original gaelic anticedents. Connaught is one of these. It remained in usage until the mid-20th century before being respelt in the original gaelic, which is now the correct form in both Irish and english. Part of the change was linked to the introduction of a new latin alphabet into Irish. My 'wikipedia' surname in old Irish used to be spelt Ó Dubtaig (with a dot over the b and g.) For decades now it has been spelt as Ó Dubhthaigh, the dot (I forget the technical term for it) having indicated a place where a h was pronounced but not written in the old gaelic script. Connacht is the correct modern name and has been for decades. Connaught is an old and bad anglicisation akin to Peking. Connaught is still used by people internationally unaware of or uncomfortable with the change, just as they still write Dunleary. (Indeed a small group still call Dun Laoghaire Kingstown and Cobh (which itself was wrongly anglicised as Cove at one stage). But while it was OK to write Connaught until I think the 1960s, just as it was OK to write Peking until the 1970s, both are now old anglicised versions that are incorrect to use today.
As to google searches, google searches here as in so many other areas, are worthless. Most websites are based in the US and reflect US linguistic usage. Connaught is still widely used by Irish-Americans who always read that spelling and continue to use it, their image of Ireland and its nomenclature reflecting inherited definitions, colloquialisms and spellings rather than a contemporary usage. On a side point, that is why, even though the people on the island had long disowned the use of voilence, Irish-Americans tended to be more supportive of the IRA and such groups, they seeing them not as modern Irish people saw them, namely as terrorists, but as 'freedom fighters' akin to those who fought for Irish independence under the same name 80 years ago. It is said about Irish-America that it is usually three to four generations behind Ireland in attitudes. Hence Irish-Americans, to give another example, tend to place heavy emphasis on Roman Catholicism, on Pearse, the Fenians, the Easter Rising, etc., whereas contemporary Ireland is abandoning RCism, has less of an interest in the Irish language (more people in the island speak Chinese as a first language than Irish) and are less enamoured of traditional republicanism. Irish Americans visiting Ireland for the first time are astonished to find empty churches, no Easter Rising Parades anymore and the President of Ireland attending Royal British Legion Remembrance Day ceremonies in St. Patrick's Cathedral. (And they were flabbergasted last year to find Alex Maskey, the Sinn Féin Lord Mayor of Belfast, laying a Remembrance Day wreath in honour of Northern Irish soldiers who died in the First World War, fighting for the British!)
Which is a roundabout way of saying - Connacht is the modern correct spelling in Irish and english, Connaught an out of date anglicisation no longer used in Ireland or among those with contact with Ireland. Connaught is simply an old bad anglicisation still used among the Irish diaspora (largely in the US), their usage of the old spelling reflecting their tendency to be out of step with contemporary Irish attitudes to spelling, language, religion, politics, Anglo-Irish relations and much else besides. And google, as it is prone to do, reflects the cultural and linguistic norms of website creators (largely US orientated) not accuracy. But accuracy is the bottom line in an encyclopædia. Here endeth the lesson. :-) FearÉIREANN 23:38, 21 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Re the atlas, it is depressing but not surprising. I guess even those who should have done their homework better sometimes don't. The fact that they use Baile Atha Cliath for Dublin suggests they are still using names copied from older maps circa mid-20th century. At that stage, many Irish towns adopted the Irish version of the name as the official version as an attempt to force Irish usage on an unwilling populace. So though the world had heard of the Book of Kells, Kells itself on maps was called the rather ludicrous Ceannanas Mór. (That too was binned in the 1980s.) But Baile Átha Cliath never took off on maps, Ceannanas Mór even less so and have long been binned. It sounds like some map makers should stop simply transposing old map names unto new maps and start from scratch with what is used now, not what was used up to the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s. Or maybe, because of the similarity between Connacht and Connaught, they presumed that one was the Irish language version, one the English. If so they are mistaken. Connacht is the correct verion in both Irish and english, Connaught the old, now unused badly anglicised version akin to Peking. FearÉIREANN 23:38, 21 Dec 2003 (UTC)
I'd say a link to Duke of Connaught would be sufficient. john 20:52, 1 Jan 2004 (UTC)
Quote: 1 The change in spelling was in part a result of a change in the use of script in Irish from Gaelic to Latin lettering. Many names and spellings of names were changed as a result. Connaught, which was based on an anglicisation of Connacht (the acht is pronounced as aught), was phased out from official usage and the Gaelic Connacht used in both the Irish and English languages. The older spelling is still used by some internationally, though its usage is in decline.
Flag- Some info on the flag would be good. For example why an Irish province has half of the "Albanian eagle" or the "Byzantine/Orthodox Eagle" on its flag?
- I found a flag that looks less Albanian if you're interested... http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/ie-conn.html -- Thano 08:50, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
'Which is a roundabout way of saying - Connacht is the modern correct spelling in Irish and english' this is not quite true, although it is a common misconception. The nominative case for Connacht in the Irish is Connachta, not Connacht. Connacht, in Irish, is the genitive case e.g. Cúige Chonnacht. El Gringo 01:34, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
It would be good to review the "early history" section for content which is mythological, rather than historical. Perhaps a "Connacht Mythology" section would be in order. Renglish ( talk) 03:04, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
Just for now. Fergananim ( talk) 02:12, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
LC1531.12 Tuathal O'Domhnallain, from Machaire-Maenmhaighe, mortuus est.
/s —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.224.181.201 ( talk) 15:30, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
Why is there so much detail from the Annals of Ulster on this page? Would it not make more sense to link to (or create) another article on this subject? As it is the useful information in this piece is swamped by sections on the Annals. Laconic Loiner ( talk) 13:12, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
A similar question to that of spelling is pronunciation. As of now, only the anglicised pronunciation is given, but many in Ireland pronounce it /kɔnəxt/ even in English. I think this should be added. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.93.193.53 ( talk) 12:18, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
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The result of the move request was: Not moved per consensus. No such user ( talk) 14:28, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
Connacht → Connaught – Connaught is the English name, Connacht is the Irish name, Wikipedia uses the English names for Ulster, Leinster and Munster (Not the Irish names: Ulaidh, Laighin and Mumhan). We need to fix this inconsistency. Connaught is also used by major websites like Google and Britannica. I am aware that “Connacht” is the official name in both English and Irish, but English Wikipedia uses the English name for places in the Republic of Ireland even when their not official like Dingle, Gweedore and Newbridge. (Instead of An Daingean, Gaoth Dobhair and Droichead). Ale3353 ( talk) 07:16, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
@ No such user: a better close statement should be used, a consensus means everyone agrees. There was an undecided and two supports out of nine votes. That's 33%. Hardly a consensus. And the last oppose is foul of Wikipedia standards by simply being a "per What he said". Mixed in with lack of evidence by both sides to actually prove their points. Mabuska (talk) 09:03, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
Consensus on Wikipedia does not mean unanimity (which is ideal but not always achievable), nor is it the result of a vote.I did not deem an extended closing statement necessary since the proposal and supports were rather free of evidence and were overwhelmingly opposed. Giuliolopez provided compelling evidence and argumentation in opposition and Nicknack009's ngram was also convincing enough. WP:PERX is generally considered a fine argument, asserting that X has provided substantial evidence, although it does not carry much weight. No such user ( talk) 09:43, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
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![]() | The contents of the List of Cities and Towns in Connacht by population page were merged into Connacht on March 25, 2017. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
Connacht spelling used in the article as it is by far the most common version used, rather than the older english spelling of Connaught.
Connaught is to Connacht what Peking is to Beijing. In phases during the twentieth century a group of clumsily anglicised gaelic names (Leix for Laois, Dunleary for Dun Laoghaire) were phased out (in reality, binned) and replaced by their original gaelic anticedents. Connaught is one of these. It remained in usage until the mid-20th century before being respelt in the original gaelic, which is now the correct form in both Irish and english. Part of the change was linked to the introduction of a new latin alphabet into Irish. My 'wikipedia' surname in old Irish used to be spelt Ó Dubtaig (with a dot over the b and g.) For decades now it has been spelt as Ó Dubhthaigh, the dot (I forget the technical term for it) having indicated a place where a h was pronounced but not written in the old gaelic script. Connacht is the correct modern name and has been for decades. Connaught is an old and bad anglicisation akin to Peking. Connaught is still used by people internationally unaware of or uncomfortable with the change, just as they still write Dunleary. (Indeed a small group still call Dun Laoghaire Kingstown and Cobh (which itself was wrongly anglicised as Cove at one stage). But while it was OK to write Connaught until I think the 1960s, just as it was OK to write Peking until the 1970s, both are now old anglicised versions that are incorrect to use today.
As to google searches, google searches here as in so many other areas, are worthless. Most websites are based in the US and reflect US linguistic usage. Connaught is still widely used by Irish-Americans who always read that spelling and continue to use it, their image of Ireland and its nomenclature reflecting inherited definitions, colloquialisms and spellings rather than a contemporary usage. On a side point, that is why, even though the people on the island had long disowned the use of voilence, Irish-Americans tended to be more supportive of the IRA and such groups, they seeing them not as modern Irish people saw them, namely as terrorists, but as 'freedom fighters' akin to those who fought for Irish independence under the same name 80 years ago. It is said about Irish-America that it is usually three to four generations behind Ireland in attitudes. Hence Irish-Americans, to give another example, tend to place heavy emphasis on Roman Catholicism, on Pearse, the Fenians, the Easter Rising, etc., whereas contemporary Ireland is abandoning RCism, has less of an interest in the Irish language (more people in the island speak Chinese as a first language than Irish) and are less enamoured of traditional republicanism. Irish Americans visiting Ireland for the first time are astonished to find empty churches, no Easter Rising Parades anymore and the President of Ireland attending Royal British Legion Remembrance Day ceremonies in St. Patrick's Cathedral. (And they were flabbergasted last year to find Alex Maskey, the Sinn Féin Lord Mayor of Belfast, laying a Remembrance Day wreath in honour of Northern Irish soldiers who died in the First World War, fighting for the British!)
Which is a roundabout way of saying - Connacht is the modern correct spelling in Irish and english, Connaught an out of date anglicisation no longer used in Ireland or among those with contact with Ireland. Connaught is simply an old bad anglicisation still used among the Irish diaspora (largely in the US), their usage of the old spelling reflecting their tendency to be out of step with contemporary Irish attitudes to spelling, language, religion, politics, Anglo-Irish relations and much else besides. And google, as it is prone to do, reflects the cultural and linguistic norms of website creators (largely US orientated) not accuracy. But accuracy is the bottom line in an encyclopædia. Here endeth the lesson. :-) FearÉIREANN 23:38, 21 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Re the atlas, it is depressing but not surprising. I guess even those who should have done their homework better sometimes don't. The fact that they use Baile Atha Cliath for Dublin suggests they are still using names copied from older maps circa mid-20th century. At that stage, many Irish towns adopted the Irish version of the name as the official version as an attempt to force Irish usage on an unwilling populace. So though the world had heard of the Book of Kells, Kells itself on maps was called the rather ludicrous Ceannanas Mór. (That too was binned in the 1980s.) But Baile Átha Cliath never took off on maps, Ceannanas Mór even less so and have long been binned. It sounds like some map makers should stop simply transposing old map names unto new maps and start from scratch with what is used now, not what was used up to the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s. Or maybe, because of the similarity between Connacht and Connaught, they presumed that one was the Irish language version, one the English. If so they are mistaken. Connacht is the correct verion in both Irish and english, Connaught the old, now unused badly anglicised version akin to Peking. FearÉIREANN 23:38, 21 Dec 2003 (UTC)
I'd say a link to Duke of Connaught would be sufficient. john 20:52, 1 Jan 2004 (UTC)
Quote: 1 The change in spelling was in part a result of a change in the use of script in Irish from Gaelic to Latin lettering. Many names and spellings of names were changed as a result. Connaught, which was based on an anglicisation of Connacht (the acht is pronounced as aught), was phased out from official usage and the Gaelic Connacht used in both the Irish and English languages. The older spelling is still used by some internationally, though its usage is in decline.
Flag- Some info on the flag would be good. For example why an Irish province has half of the "Albanian eagle" or the "Byzantine/Orthodox Eagle" on its flag?
- I found a flag that looks less Albanian if you're interested... http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/ie-conn.html -- Thano 08:50, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
'Which is a roundabout way of saying - Connacht is the modern correct spelling in Irish and english' this is not quite true, although it is a common misconception. The nominative case for Connacht in the Irish is Connachta, not Connacht. Connacht, in Irish, is the genitive case e.g. Cúige Chonnacht. El Gringo 01:34, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
It would be good to review the "early history" section for content which is mythological, rather than historical. Perhaps a "Connacht Mythology" section would be in order. Renglish ( talk) 03:04, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
Just for now. Fergananim ( talk) 02:12, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
LC1531.12 Tuathal O'Domhnallain, from Machaire-Maenmhaighe, mortuus est.
/s —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.224.181.201 ( talk) 15:30, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
Why is there so much detail from the Annals of Ulster on this page? Would it not make more sense to link to (or create) another article on this subject? As it is the useful information in this piece is swamped by sections on the Annals. Laconic Loiner ( talk) 13:12, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
A similar question to that of spelling is pronunciation. As of now, only the anglicised pronunciation is given, but many in Ireland pronounce it /kɔnəxt/ even in English. I think this should be added. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.93.193.53 ( talk) 12:18, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
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The result of the move request was: Not moved per consensus. No such user ( talk) 14:28, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
Connacht → Connaught – Connaught is the English name, Connacht is the Irish name, Wikipedia uses the English names for Ulster, Leinster and Munster (Not the Irish names: Ulaidh, Laighin and Mumhan). We need to fix this inconsistency. Connaught is also used by major websites like Google and Britannica. I am aware that “Connacht” is the official name in both English and Irish, but English Wikipedia uses the English name for places in the Republic of Ireland even when their not official like Dingle, Gweedore and Newbridge. (Instead of An Daingean, Gaoth Dobhair and Droichead). Ale3353 ( talk) 07:16, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
@ No such user: a better close statement should be used, a consensus means everyone agrees. There was an undecided and two supports out of nine votes. That's 33%. Hardly a consensus. And the last oppose is foul of Wikipedia standards by simply being a "per What he said". Mixed in with lack of evidence by both sides to actually prove their points. Mabuska (talk) 09:03, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
Consensus on Wikipedia does not mean unanimity (which is ideal but not always achievable), nor is it the result of a vote.I did not deem an extended closing statement necessary since the proposal and supports were rather free of evidence and were overwhelmingly opposed. Giuliolopez provided compelling evidence and argumentation in opposition and Nicknack009's ngram was also convincing enough. WP:PERX is generally considered a fine argument, asserting that X has provided substantial evidence, although it does not carry much weight. No such user ( talk) 09:43, 25 August 2021 (UTC)