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They say that curiosity killed the cat…I was curious about why these articles use a long I in the name. The corresponding Irish language article does not and it doesn’t seem to fit with the etymology given on the page. Is there any good reason for this? At first I thought I had seen this somewhere, but maybe it was here! I’ve looked at quite a few of the cited sources now and none of them have a long I, e.g. Annals of the Four Masters, Foras Feasa ar Éirinn, O’Donovan’s The Topographical Poems of John O’Dubhagain and Giolla na Naomh O’Huidhrin, Knox’s The History of the County of Mayo, to the close of the sixteenth century and A Dictionary of Celtic Mythology. Somehow this seems to have become the accepted form (& a lot of page renaming happened in 2019/20 to align with it) so I’ve tried to create a timeline of edits to figure out how we got here. It’s a bit long-winded, but I think it’s good to know people’s reasoning in choosing these names.
Fergananim
moved Conmaicne to Conmhaícne (summary: add fada)Fergananim
moved page to Máenmaige (summary: correct name)Nmclough
moved page Conmaicne Máenmaige to Conmhaícne Máenmaige (summary: Align spelling with Conmhaícne Mara (Connamara) article)Nmclough
moved page Conmhaícne Máenmaige to Conmhaícne Mheáin (summary: The irish spelling is corrupted in Irish Annals; This spelling is consistent with related territories (i.e. Conmhaicne
Mara, Connamara).)Nmclough
moved page Conmhaícne Mheáin to Conmhaícne Mheáin Maigh (summary: All names should resolve to this accurate irish place name)Nmclough
moved page Conmaicne Annaly to Conmhaícne Angaile (summary: Align spelling with other Conmaicne articles and Irish spelling, i.e. Conmhaícne Mara (Connamara) article)Nmclough
moved page Cluain Conmaicne to Cluain Conmhaícne (summary: Redirect to correct irish spelling)Nmclough
moved page Cenel Luachán to Conmaicne Luchan (summary: Align article spelling with all Conmhaícne articles, i.e. the Conmaice Mara (Connamara) article)Nmclough
moved page Conmaicne Luchan to Conmhaícne Luacháin (summary: Align spelling with other Conmaicne articles .. i.e. Conmhaícne Mara (Connamara) spelling)Nmclough
moved page Conmhaícne Luacháin to Conmhaícne Cenel Luacháin (summary: Expand the name irish spelling)Nmclough
moved page Conmhaícne Cenel Luacháin to Cenel Luacháin (summary: Another name for these peoples)Nmclough
moved page Conmaicne Cuile Tolad to Conmhaícne Cúile Tuired (summary: redirect english to gaelic spelling)Nmclough
moved page Conmhaícne Cúile Tuired to Conmhaícne Cúile Tolad (summary: Tolad is more a common (but heavily corrupted) spelling)Nmclough
moved page Conmhaícne Cúile Tolad to Conmhaícne Cúile Tuireadh (summary: Finally, for main page, align spelling with Cath Maige Tuired)Nmclough
moved page Conmhaícne Cúile Tuireadh to Conmhaícne Cúile Tolad (summary: over redirect: Align spelling with MacNeill)Nmclough
moved page Conmhaícne Cúile Tolad to Conmhaícne Cúile Tuireadh (summary: over redirect: Stokes says "Magh Tuireadh"; O'Cuiv say "Muigh Tuiredh" - so Tuireadh)Nmclough
moved page Conmhaícne Cúile Tuireadh to Conmhaícne Cúile Tuiredh (summary: Tuiredh is defined by
http://edil.qub.ac.uk/42381 not Tuireadh)Nmclough
moved page Conmhaícne Cúile Tuiredh to Conmhaícne Cúile (summary: Correct simplified name)Nmclough
moved page Conmhaícne Cúile to Conmhaícne Cuile (summary: Final form)Nmclough
moved page Conmhaícne Cuile to Conmaicne Cuile (summary: Final English form.)Other names used in the article
General principles
Wikipedia policy is to use the commonly used English name, but that’s not always very clear in this subject area. For ancient tuatha it’s common to use the name as it appears in the annals, usually an Old Irish form where lenition is not marked on several letters, including M (Conmaicne rather than Conmhaicne or Conṁaicne), but when referring to later divisions often the qualifier is the anglicised word (e.g. Dunmore rather than an (?) old genitive Dúna Móir or a modern genitive Dhún Mór).
A further complication is that many of the easily available sources are from the 17th–19th centuries and their choices of nomenclature can sometimes be very idiosyncratic, prescriptive and antiquarian. There are also usually several variant forms to choose from.
Conmhaícne
It seems clear to me that this form is plain wrong and should be removed. It doesn’t fit with the word’s etymology and I can’t find it in any source apart from those derived from Wikipedia.
On the other hand, here is the entry for maicne in RIA’s Dictionary of the Irish Language and the form conmaicne appears under a number of headwords. The modern form conmhaicne appears in Ó Dónaill’s Foclóir Gaeilge-Béarla, but with a more general meaning (Hist: Kindred, tribe, people.), though I don’t think this word is in common use apart from references to the peoples so called. There are only 4 occurrences in Nua-Chorpas na Gaeilge and none have that meaning.
Both conmaicne and conmhaicne are found multiple times in RIA’s Historical Irish Corpus/Corpas Stairiúil na Gaeilge but conmhaícne never appears.
Entries in O’Donovan’s edition of the Annals tend to use conmaicne in earlier entries and conmhaicne in later ones.
We probably should be using one of these two forms, but it might take a bit more work to figure out which is in current usage. ⚜ Moilleadóir ✍ 14:37, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
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They say that curiosity killed the cat…I was curious about why these articles use a long I in the name. The corresponding Irish language article does not and it doesn’t seem to fit with the etymology given on the page. Is there any good reason for this? At first I thought I had seen this somewhere, but maybe it was here! I’ve looked at quite a few of the cited sources now and none of them have a long I, e.g. Annals of the Four Masters, Foras Feasa ar Éirinn, O’Donovan’s The Topographical Poems of John O’Dubhagain and Giolla na Naomh O’Huidhrin, Knox’s The History of the County of Mayo, to the close of the sixteenth century and A Dictionary of Celtic Mythology. Somehow this seems to have become the accepted form (& a lot of page renaming happened in 2019/20 to align with it) so I’ve tried to create a timeline of edits to figure out how we got here. It’s a bit long-winded, but I think it’s good to know people’s reasoning in choosing these names.
Fergananim
moved Conmaicne to Conmhaícne (summary: add fada)Fergananim
moved page to Máenmaige (summary: correct name)Nmclough
moved page Conmaicne Máenmaige to Conmhaícne Máenmaige (summary: Align spelling with Conmhaícne Mara (Connamara) article)Nmclough
moved page Conmhaícne Máenmaige to Conmhaícne Mheáin (summary: The irish spelling is corrupted in Irish Annals; This spelling is consistent with related territories (i.e. Conmhaicne
Mara, Connamara).)Nmclough
moved page Conmhaícne Mheáin to Conmhaícne Mheáin Maigh (summary: All names should resolve to this accurate irish place name)Nmclough
moved page Conmaicne Annaly to Conmhaícne Angaile (summary: Align spelling with other Conmaicne articles and Irish spelling, i.e. Conmhaícne Mara (Connamara) article)Nmclough
moved page Cluain Conmaicne to Cluain Conmhaícne (summary: Redirect to correct irish spelling)Nmclough
moved page Cenel Luachán to Conmaicne Luchan (summary: Align article spelling with all Conmhaícne articles, i.e. the Conmaice Mara (Connamara) article)Nmclough
moved page Conmaicne Luchan to Conmhaícne Luacháin (summary: Align spelling with other Conmaicne articles .. i.e. Conmhaícne Mara (Connamara) spelling)Nmclough
moved page Conmhaícne Luacháin to Conmhaícne Cenel Luacháin (summary: Expand the name irish spelling)Nmclough
moved page Conmhaícne Cenel Luacháin to Cenel Luacháin (summary: Another name for these peoples)Nmclough
moved page Conmaicne Cuile Tolad to Conmhaícne Cúile Tuired (summary: redirect english to gaelic spelling)Nmclough
moved page Conmhaícne Cúile Tuired to Conmhaícne Cúile Tolad (summary: Tolad is more a common (but heavily corrupted) spelling)Nmclough
moved page Conmhaícne Cúile Tolad to Conmhaícne Cúile Tuireadh (summary: Finally, for main page, align spelling with Cath Maige Tuired)Nmclough
moved page Conmhaícne Cúile Tuireadh to Conmhaícne Cúile Tolad (summary: over redirect: Align spelling with MacNeill)Nmclough
moved page Conmhaícne Cúile Tolad to Conmhaícne Cúile Tuireadh (summary: over redirect: Stokes says "Magh Tuireadh"; O'Cuiv say "Muigh Tuiredh" - so Tuireadh)Nmclough
moved page Conmhaícne Cúile Tuireadh to Conmhaícne Cúile Tuiredh (summary: Tuiredh is defined by
http://edil.qub.ac.uk/42381 not Tuireadh)Nmclough
moved page Conmhaícne Cúile Tuiredh to Conmhaícne Cúile (summary: Correct simplified name)Nmclough
moved page Conmhaícne Cúile to Conmhaícne Cuile (summary: Final form)Nmclough
moved page Conmhaícne Cuile to Conmaicne Cuile (summary: Final English form.)Other names used in the article
General principles
Wikipedia policy is to use the commonly used English name, but that’s not always very clear in this subject area. For ancient tuatha it’s common to use the name as it appears in the annals, usually an Old Irish form where lenition is not marked on several letters, including M (Conmaicne rather than Conmhaicne or Conṁaicne), but when referring to later divisions often the qualifier is the anglicised word (e.g. Dunmore rather than an (?) old genitive Dúna Móir or a modern genitive Dhún Mór).
A further complication is that many of the easily available sources are from the 17th–19th centuries and their choices of nomenclature can sometimes be very idiosyncratic, prescriptive and antiquarian. There are also usually several variant forms to choose from.
Conmhaícne
It seems clear to me that this form is plain wrong and should be removed. It doesn’t fit with the word’s etymology and I can’t find it in any source apart from those derived from Wikipedia.
On the other hand, here is the entry for maicne in RIA’s Dictionary of the Irish Language and the form conmaicne appears under a number of headwords. The modern form conmhaicne appears in Ó Dónaill’s Foclóir Gaeilge-Béarla, but with a more general meaning (Hist: Kindred, tribe, people.), though I don’t think this word is in common use apart from references to the peoples so called. There are only 4 occurrences in Nua-Chorpas na Gaeilge and none have that meaning.
Both conmaicne and conmhaicne are found multiple times in RIA’s Historical Irish Corpus/Corpas Stairiúil na Gaeilge but conmhaícne never appears.
Entries in O’Donovan’s edition of the Annals tend to use conmaicne in earlier entries and conmhaicne in later ones.
We probably should be using one of these two forms, but it might take a bit more work to figure out which is in current usage. ⚜ Moilleadóir ✍ 14:37, 11 January 2023 (UTC)