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So far, this article has very little information on the Protestant tradition, which I find surprising. It's quite an important thing in Nordic countries at least, involving a period of intense Bible study (often at at least these points addressed in the article, but I'm not adding any myself since I'm just a generic religions geek and a Finn, so I'm only speaking from experience rather than citing authoritative texts:).-- Snowgrouse 21:26, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
While describing the Lutheran point of view, why confuse people with the German term for the non-Lutheran point of view (Firmung)?
As a native German speaker, I don't see that the fact that we happen to have a different term for the Roman Catholic ceremony has anything to do with the Lutheran point of view about confirmation. If it is really considered necessary to give the German word "Firmung" at some point (though I do not really see the necessity of this at all - you might as well give the Italian or French or Chinese term), in my opinion it belongs in the context of the Roman Catholic view.
If the whole article is linked to the German Wikipedia article on "Firmung", well, that is a different problem which should not be solved within the article, but by setting the correct links. This link, as it is, would turn the English term "Confirmation" into a solely Roman Catholic issue for anyone who relies on it.
Would somebody who knows how to do it maybe be so kind as to fix this? Anna ( talk) 09:35, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
Does anyone know the process for revoking confirmation? - Christiaan 23:24, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
On the other hand, the Orthodox insist that chrismation upon conversion is necessary.
Do they do that even when the convert comes from an Eastern-rite Catholic church or an Oriental Orthodox church, where the same kind of chrismation rite immediately after baptism that is done in Eastern Orthodox churches? Michael Hardy 01:00, 24 Jan 2004 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure in the Roman church the Bishop can delegate permission to confer the sacrament of Confirmation to other priests in his diocese. Where I live that in fact had been done in the past, an oridnary priest was authorized to confirm individuals.
There is no mention to the history of this sacrament. I am very interested in knowing the history and development of the christian sacraments. It is quite difficult. Anyone has any ready knoledge? Please? JesseG 01:01, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Also ask a priest or deacon.ray riordan
The Roman Catholic Views section of this article appears to be written in the first person and is not neutral. Could someone please fix this? [anonymous unsigned comment]
The section is on "Roman Catholic views" and presents that Church's teaching on confirmation. The views of other Churches are presented in other sections. Lima 06:36, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
I notice that, throughout this article, SomeHuman has altered the names of the sacraments (Confirmation/confirmation, Baptism/baptism, Eucharist/eucharist) to give them lower-case initials. I have no personal preference in the matter, though I think that, in this article, capitalization shows up the specificity of the religious rite that the article is about, as indicated in its title. I have also long noticed that neither Microsoft Word nor WordPerfect accept "eucharist" (lower-case "e") as correct English spelling. Be all that as it may, my query is whether SomeHuman's unilateral action is in conformity with Wikipedia norms. Lima 07:47, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
Before choosing whether to capitalize or not, I searched and could definitely not find a Wikipedia norm that indicates that all concepts considered sacred should be capitalized. In Wikipedia articles, though often normal characters are used, capitalization can be seen in some articles. Elsewhere, I too saw 'Eucharist' more often than 'eucharist', though I can not see a reason for this particular sacrament to be capitalized while 'communion' is not. Unlike other sacraments, this term is rarely used by non-Catholics and I assume that's why it is rarely found as 'eucharist'. What is certainly not acceptable for Wikipedia standards, is using normal characters for the same words used in relation to other religions, but capital letters in relation to Catholicism. That is how it was mostly in the article and that is what I changed; 'Eucharist' however was, once more, only used with respect to Catholicism, it seems logical to use the same spelling style as for other sacraments. When a term refers to a particular god, as another name, it is capitalized. ' Eucharist' is a rite of which Catholics believe the bread and/or wine is somehow transformed to Christ, in other words the term is not a name for Christ but a word for the transformation to Christ, hence not capitalized by Wikipedia standards. — SomeHuman 1 Sep 2006 22:13 (UTC)
I am staying out of the SomeHuman versus Microsoft Word and WordPerfect quarrel. Lima 04:51, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
The article skip how, if at all, the event is followed by secular celebration. At least with the danish tradition follows a celebration that easily rivals a Bar Mitzvah, with the same critizism; that for many young people the party and gifts become the main reason to be confirmated. Carewolf 15:00, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was Confirmation (Christian sacrament) → Confirmation — This is the primary topic for the page name, per WP:DAB#Primary topic. Only one other topic on Confirmation (disambiguation) has an article, and the disambiguation page can remain where it is; links intended for a dictionary definition of "confirmation" should be delinked anyway (as it's not a viable topic), so that isn't a concern. — Dekimasu よ! 15:38, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's naming conventions.
This article has been renamed from Confirmation (Christian sacrament) to Confirmation as the result of a move request. -- Stemonitis 15:32, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
Why is Orthodox Chrismation assumed to be the same thing as the rite in the West known as Confirmation? Deusveritasest ( talk) 07:15, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
Could someone trim the Roman Catholic section as it has its own article on the topic? Americanman095 ( talk) 18:19, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
Why would this article start with "Confirmation in Judaism" if it's the least relevant subtopic? Rhetorical question. The article should start with the important body of the topic, its history and bigger relevance (hint: in Christianity). In other words, it's unlikely that the majority of people coming to this page are primarily concerned with "Confirmation in Judaism". Maybe I'm wrong!? In any case, I'll just head over to the jumbo shrimp page for now. They seem to at least have things in order. -- 71.168.215.63 ( talk) 04:51, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
The source states as implicating an obligation for non-bishop priests to confirm: "According to the ancient practice maintained in the Roman liturgy, an adult is not to be baptized unless he receives confirmation immediately afterward, provided no serious obstacles exist" (Christian Initiation of Adults, 34). Well that may be so, but I would doubt there is an obligation, and this on the following reasons.
Of course I don't speak of cases where the bishop has no time and not only empowers, as even the Law does, but orders a priest with cure of souls to confirm. -- 84.154.43.88 ( talk) 16:36, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
There is a confirmation ceremony in Reform Judaism. It is not identical to any of the Christian confirmations, but it does play an analogous role.
Source: About.Com Can you please explain Reform Judaism's Confirmation ritual?, Rabbi Jeffrey Wolfson Goldwasser http://judaism.about.com/od/birthtomarria2
A minor note of caution: Do not confuse Reform Judaism's 'confirmation' rite with that of B'nai Mitzvah (becoming Bar Mitzvah or Bat Mitzvah); they are separate ceremonies, done at different times. Reform Judaism originally developed the idea of confirmation because - at the time - they believed that it was inappropriate for 13 year old boy, or 12 year old girl, to have a Bar/Bat mitzvah. They believed that children of this age were not mature enough to uncerstand what it means to be religious, and that children of this age were not responsibile enough to observe religious practices.
Also, I added many details from the Public Domain Jewish Encyclopedia. RK ( talk)
When I was growing up on Long Island in the 1970s, our Conservative synagogue celebrated both b'nai mitzah AND Jewish Confirmation. One was Bar/Bat Mitzvah at 13, and then if the youth chose to continue with his/her Jewish studies, would have a smaller Confirmation ceremony at about age 16. This was not a requirement. Additionally, the tzedakah projects common for modern (two-thousand-teens) Reform and Conservative b'nai mitzvah candidates were not required. 68.83.46.229 ( talk) 12:24, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
There seems to be a small edit war going on about the first sentence of the article, and if the anointing necessarily belongs to the rite of confirmation or only "possibly".
While not in the least interested in entering in on this edit war, I do want to remark that this article is on confirmation in general and in all denominations, not on confirmation in certain particular denominations which may always practice the anointing. There are a number of denominations which do not practice the anointing at all, or only occasionally. Therefore, this sentence definitely needs some kind of term like "possibly" or "in some denominations". -- Anna ( talk) 12:22, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
Are there Anglican Churches that use chrism for Confirmation? Generally, more information should be given on the ritual: Which church uses which ritual elements (chrism, laying on hands, prayer, blessings)?-- Hannes de Correct me! 23:39, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
Some student-candidates who are Protestants like Anglicans and Methodists do undergo confirmation by Catholic bishops, per school rules. Do the local Catholic authorities who control high schools allow this? Every denomination that has confirmation apply it to its adherents only. I think this rule is not followed. Why? Local ecumenism Santiago Claudio ( talk) 12:17, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
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The article uses both terms. It should standardize on one or the other.
According to Wictionary, confirmand is an English word with the definition we're looking for, while confirmant is not even an English word. 2601:281:D47F:AE60:31C1:A0AF:B3A7:366E ( talk) 05:29, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
Vormsel is waar je in de jerk 186.179.209.70 ( talk) 22:53, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
I propose to merge this page with the following page : /info/en/?search=Confirmation_in_the_Catholic_Church
Wikidata Q12311433 LucekFR ( talk) 08:57, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
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So far, this article has very little information on the Protestant tradition, which I find surprising. It's quite an important thing in Nordic countries at least, involving a period of intense Bible study (often at at least these points addressed in the article, but I'm not adding any myself since I'm just a generic religions geek and a Finn, so I'm only speaking from experience rather than citing authoritative texts:).-- Snowgrouse 21:26, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
While describing the Lutheran point of view, why confuse people with the German term for the non-Lutheran point of view (Firmung)?
As a native German speaker, I don't see that the fact that we happen to have a different term for the Roman Catholic ceremony has anything to do with the Lutheran point of view about confirmation. If it is really considered necessary to give the German word "Firmung" at some point (though I do not really see the necessity of this at all - you might as well give the Italian or French or Chinese term), in my opinion it belongs in the context of the Roman Catholic view.
If the whole article is linked to the German Wikipedia article on "Firmung", well, that is a different problem which should not be solved within the article, but by setting the correct links. This link, as it is, would turn the English term "Confirmation" into a solely Roman Catholic issue for anyone who relies on it.
Would somebody who knows how to do it maybe be so kind as to fix this? Anna ( talk) 09:35, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
Does anyone know the process for revoking confirmation? - Christiaan 23:24, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
On the other hand, the Orthodox insist that chrismation upon conversion is necessary.
Do they do that even when the convert comes from an Eastern-rite Catholic church or an Oriental Orthodox church, where the same kind of chrismation rite immediately after baptism that is done in Eastern Orthodox churches? Michael Hardy 01:00, 24 Jan 2004 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure in the Roman church the Bishop can delegate permission to confer the sacrament of Confirmation to other priests in his diocese. Where I live that in fact had been done in the past, an oridnary priest was authorized to confirm individuals.
There is no mention to the history of this sacrament. I am very interested in knowing the history and development of the christian sacraments. It is quite difficult. Anyone has any ready knoledge? Please? JesseG 01:01, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Also ask a priest or deacon.ray riordan
The Roman Catholic Views section of this article appears to be written in the first person and is not neutral. Could someone please fix this? [anonymous unsigned comment]
The section is on "Roman Catholic views" and presents that Church's teaching on confirmation. The views of other Churches are presented in other sections. Lima 06:36, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
I notice that, throughout this article, SomeHuman has altered the names of the sacraments (Confirmation/confirmation, Baptism/baptism, Eucharist/eucharist) to give them lower-case initials. I have no personal preference in the matter, though I think that, in this article, capitalization shows up the specificity of the religious rite that the article is about, as indicated in its title. I have also long noticed that neither Microsoft Word nor WordPerfect accept "eucharist" (lower-case "e") as correct English spelling. Be all that as it may, my query is whether SomeHuman's unilateral action is in conformity with Wikipedia norms. Lima 07:47, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
Before choosing whether to capitalize or not, I searched and could definitely not find a Wikipedia norm that indicates that all concepts considered sacred should be capitalized. In Wikipedia articles, though often normal characters are used, capitalization can be seen in some articles. Elsewhere, I too saw 'Eucharist' more often than 'eucharist', though I can not see a reason for this particular sacrament to be capitalized while 'communion' is not. Unlike other sacraments, this term is rarely used by non-Catholics and I assume that's why it is rarely found as 'eucharist'. What is certainly not acceptable for Wikipedia standards, is using normal characters for the same words used in relation to other religions, but capital letters in relation to Catholicism. That is how it was mostly in the article and that is what I changed; 'Eucharist' however was, once more, only used with respect to Catholicism, it seems logical to use the same spelling style as for other sacraments. When a term refers to a particular god, as another name, it is capitalized. ' Eucharist' is a rite of which Catholics believe the bread and/or wine is somehow transformed to Christ, in other words the term is not a name for Christ but a word for the transformation to Christ, hence not capitalized by Wikipedia standards. — SomeHuman 1 Sep 2006 22:13 (UTC)
I am staying out of the SomeHuman versus Microsoft Word and WordPerfect quarrel. Lima 04:51, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
The article skip how, if at all, the event is followed by secular celebration. At least with the danish tradition follows a celebration that easily rivals a Bar Mitzvah, with the same critizism; that for many young people the party and gifts become the main reason to be confirmated. Carewolf 15:00, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was Confirmation (Christian sacrament) → Confirmation — This is the primary topic for the page name, per WP:DAB#Primary topic. Only one other topic on Confirmation (disambiguation) has an article, and the disambiguation page can remain where it is; links intended for a dictionary definition of "confirmation" should be delinked anyway (as it's not a viable topic), so that isn't a concern. — Dekimasu よ! 15:38, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's naming conventions.
This article has been renamed from Confirmation (Christian sacrament) to Confirmation as the result of a move request. -- Stemonitis 15:32, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
Why is Orthodox Chrismation assumed to be the same thing as the rite in the West known as Confirmation? Deusveritasest ( talk) 07:15, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
Could someone trim the Roman Catholic section as it has its own article on the topic? Americanman095 ( talk) 18:19, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
Why would this article start with "Confirmation in Judaism" if it's the least relevant subtopic? Rhetorical question. The article should start with the important body of the topic, its history and bigger relevance (hint: in Christianity). In other words, it's unlikely that the majority of people coming to this page are primarily concerned with "Confirmation in Judaism". Maybe I'm wrong!? In any case, I'll just head over to the jumbo shrimp page for now. They seem to at least have things in order. -- 71.168.215.63 ( talk) 04:51, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
The source states as implicating an obligation for non-bishop priests to confirm: "According to the ancient practice maintained in the Roman liturgy, an adult is not to be baptized unless he receives confirmation immediately afterward, provided no serious obstacles exist" (Christian Initiation of Adults, 34). Well that may be so, but I would doubt there is an obligation, and this on the following reasons.
Of course I don't speak of cases where the bishop has no time and not only empowers, as even the Law does, but orders a priest with cure of souls to confirm. -- 84.154.43.88 ( talk) 16:36, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
There is a confirmation ceremony in Reform Judaism. It is not identical to any of the Christian confirmations, but it does play an analogous role.
Source: About.Com Can you please explain Reform Judaism's Confirmation ritual?, Rabbi Jeffrey Wolfson Goldwasser http://judaism.about.com/od/birthtomarria2
A minor note of caution: Do not confuse Reform Judaism's 'confirmation' rite with that of B'nai Mitzvah (becoming Bar Mitzvah or Bat Mitzvah); they are separate ceremonies, done at different times. Reform Judaism originally developed the idea of confirmation because - at the time - they believed that it was inappropriate for 13 year old boy, or 12 year old girl, to have a Bar/Bat mitzvah. They believed that children of this age were not mature enough to uncerstand what it means to be religious, and that children of this age were not responsibile enough to observe religious practices.
Also, I added many details from the Public Domain Jewish Encyclopedia. RK ( talk)
When I was growing up on Long Island in the 1970s, our Conservative synagogue celebrated both b'nai mitzah AND Jewish Confirmation. One was Bar/Bat Mitzvah at 13, and then if the youth chose to continue with his/her Jewish studies, would have a smaller Confirmation ceremony at about age 16. This was not a requirement. Additionally, the tzedakah projects common for modern (two-thousand-teens) Reform and Conservative b'nai mitzvah candidates were not required. 68.83.46.229 ( talk) 12:24, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
There seems to be a small edit war going on about the first sentence of the article, and if the anointing necessarily belongs to the rite of confirmation or only "possibly".
While not in the least interested in entering in on this edit war, I do want to remark that this article is on confirmation in general and in all denominations, not on confirmation in certain particular denominations which may always practice the anointing. There are a number of denominations which do not practice the anointing at all, or only occasionally. Therefore, this sentence definitely needs some kind of term like "possibly" or "in some denominations". -- Anna ( talk) 12:22, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
Are there Anglican Churches that use chrism for Confirmation? Generally, more information should be given on the ritual: Which church uses which ritual elements (chrism, laying on hands, prayer, blessings)?-- Hannes de Correct me! 23:39, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
Some student-candidates who are Protestants like Anglicans and Methodists do undergo confirmation by Catholic bishops, per school rules. Do the local Catholic authorities who control high schools allow this? Every denomination that has confirmation apply it to its adherents only. I think this rule is not followed. Why? Local ecumenism Santiago Claudio ( talk) 12:17, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
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The article uses both terms. It should standardize on one or the other.
According to Wictionary, confirmand is an English word with the definition we're looking for, while confirmant is not even an English word. 2601:281:D47F:AE60:31C1:A0AF:B3A7:366E ( talk) 05:29, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
Vormsel is waar je in de jerk 186.179.209.70 ( talk) 22:53, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
I propose to merge this page with the following page : /info/en/?search=Confirmation_in_the_Catholic_Church
Wikidata Q12311433 LucekFR ( talk) 08:57, 16 March 2024 (UTC)