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The CNT not 35,000 members. Aslo 4.000 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.120.135.42 ( talk) 18:08, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
"It inspired the flag of Fascist Falange."
I know they're both red and black, but "inspired"? That would imply idelogical similarities between the anarchists and fascists, a silly proposition at best. -- Tothebarricades.tk 00:40, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)
I think it is correct. When José Antonio Primo de Rivera founded Falange they tried to use workers symbols (red and black flag and the blue shirt, like the ones used by industrial workers) to try to reach proletariats. That doesn´t mean there were ideological similarities, Falange just tried to use CNT´s image. Zetakah ( talk) 19:54, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
A fascist in a documentary said something like this: 'The flag of the workers organization, the CNT, was red and black. We wanted ours to be similar.' I don't remember which documentary it was in though.
The article is grammatically incorrect and needs cleanup to make it easier to read. FET 02:17, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
In the First Congress of the CNT (taken place in 1911, year in which the union received its name officially) a general strike, reason for the one was already summoned which the union was declared illegal up to 1914.
This sentence makes no sense, I am not even sure what it is supposed to mean. Can someone correct it please?
UnHoly 21:32, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
Is CNT a trade union, like the article currently states, or is it actually a federation of more or less independent regional and sectoral trade unions? / Alarm 13:36, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
It is interesting to note that many authoritarian left wing and right wing movements have made a point of appropriating the colors of anarcho-syndicalists in particular in order to try to lessen or re-direct their popularity and impact at crucial times in history.
Is there any sort of evidence for this at all? It seems to me that it's an attempt to boost the supposed significance of this group by suggesting groups such as the Nazis and Soviets were somehow terrified of it - which is, of course, ridiculously POV.
-- Cruci 17:03, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I added the infobox, but I don't have current info about the secretary general, or membership. I also moved the CNT-FAI flag into the box - is that the best image, or should it be just the CNT logo?-- Bookandcoffee 17:57, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
The secretary general is Rafael Corrales Valverde http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafael_Corrales
I've never seen a Notes section like the one in this article. I think it should changed to not only be more editor-friendly, but consistent with other wikipedia articles. If nobody has a problem with it, I'll go ahead and do it. Murderbike ( talk) 22:44, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
Oh yeah, and do you think that the whole thing reads like an essay? Just certain parts? Murderbike ( talk) 05:23, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
Hey, so I did a bit of work on this article over the holidays, lots of sourcing, changing a lot of awkwardly translated wording, etc. So I wanted to see if you'd be up for outlining in detail the problems you see with the article that warrant the tags at the top, so I can keep plugging away at it and try to get it up to Good Article status. Hope your break was good! Murderbike ( talk) 19:34, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
On the whole, unlike Skomorokh, I think the lengthy organizational section is useful. True bottom-up organization like this is so unusual that I think a detailed description is informative. However:
In particular, in "agreements from previous assemblies" is very confusing. What assemblies, precisely? Does "previous" just mean "smaller and held earlier in the process" or does it refer to assemblies from previous years? - Jmabel | Talk 19:23, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
-- Wafry ( talk) 20:51, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
I've been reading some of Anarcosindicalismo básico and this is what I got:
So, how do we translate each one? I propose: Assembly, Committee, Plenary Assembly, (Congress), Plenary Commitee, in that order. Should we use simply "plenary" to refer to one of the concepts, which one then? -- Wafry ( talk) 21:39, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
I was thinking that maybe the map and list of all the regional federations could just be condensed into one item. The two things take up way more space than the actual text of the section, and I think the whole list of federations may be a little to weighty. Any thoughts? Murderbike ( talk) 23:53, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
Or maybe put it into prose.-- Wafry ( talk) 00:08, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone know a clean way to get a margin between the text and those three right-aligned tables? - Jmabel | Talk 06:50, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
I cleaned up a citation that I've now characterized as "A series of three articles about the Scala Case from the CNT point of view", but I'm not sure it really qualifies under our policy about reliable sources. This series of three articles is part of the Revista Polémica site. I know that they do put out an actual magazine, but it's not clear whether these articles by Jesús Martínez actually appeared in the magazine. He is a moderator on the site, so he isn't just a random person blogging there, but it's not clear how much that means (e.g. a Wikipedia administrator doesn't speak for Wikipedia editorially, just in process matters). Also, what exactly is Revista Polémica's relationship to the CNT? - Jmabel | Talk 07:09, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
What do you think we should do with that massive list of pages full of posters that are currently in a footnote? Previously, it was just a bunch of basically blind URLs, all captioned as "here" (see Click here for why that is a bad idea). Now they are properly explained, but the result is a monster footnote. Is there any way conforming to MoS that we can give this a section of its own (maybe within external links) and still somehow use this to cite for the statement about their use of posters? - Jmabel | Talk 18:46, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
I've added a bit to this section, though the mix of the new material and the old is a bit awkward at the moment. Does this article warrant an "under construction" tag at the top? Murderbike ( talk) 23:56, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
In the article, there is a reference to the "CNT 7th congress (in Granada)" but the table shows a 7th congress in Bilbao, and an 8th in Granada. Something is wrong, either the number, the place, or the table. - Jmabel | Talk 05:20, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
There are a lot of translated quotations from Anarcosindicalismo básico in the article, some of them translated rather poorly. They are attributed as Basic anarcho-syndicalism. Is there a published translation of this work? If so, we should quote the published translation. If not, and if we intend to keep this many quotations (and I think they are generally good) we should translate these passages more carefully and include the Spanish originals of passages in footnotes. In either case, we should (if at all possible) include page numbers in footnotes (using the Harvard-style citation we use elsewhere) and be clear about what edition we are quoting. - Jmabel | Talk 05:31, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
Similarly for the quotation from Joan Ferrer and any others originally in Spanish, Catalan, etc. - Jmabel | Talk 05:47, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
Also, for the Spanish-language Anarcosindicalismo básico: there seems to be an online PDF at [3], but there is no way to tell that the text corresponds to any particular edition. Worth linking? (This is mostly for the one quotation we've had to translate ourselves, which, judging by this copy, is not all that literal a translation, though accurate in spirit.) - Jmabel | Talk 01:39, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
Similarly, it looks like Orwell is at least slightly misquoted, but I don't have the original at hand. - Jmabel | Talk 20:45, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
Ok, so I'm mainly asking this in the context of wanting to bring this article up to at least GA status, if not FA. Does it seem like all the huge quotes are a bit much, and should be worked into the text as much as possible? I'm thinking particularly of the Basic Anarchosyndicalism stuff, and the two largish quotes from Orwell (which unfortunately is not browseable on Google Books, maybe I'll see if the library has it). Murderbike ( talk) 22:46, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
"…multitudinary meetings…": an odd phrase. Does this simply mean "mass meetings" or something else? - Jmabel | Talk 05:29, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
"One year later, a group of CGT members left this union to be able to receive subventions…" Does "one year later" here mean in 1980 or 1990? Two different events had just been alluded to. Also "subventions" is vague (and, in English, rather obscure). Does it refer specifically to some kind of government subsidy, and if so precisely what? - Jmabel | Talk 05:37, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
We might want also to look at the corresponding (stubby) German-language article. I notice, for example, that its lead (which is really all there is to it) mentions the peak membership during the Spanish Civil War, probably worth doing; also, it appears to give a whole different set of references, probably worth a look. - Jmabel | Talk 01:46, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
We need to work out how to factor some material between the historical sections here and the article Anarchism in Spain. They cover a lot of the same territory; in general, we will want the main narrative in one place and a link and a summary in the other. - Jmabel | Talk 01:51, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
Wafry, I see that in "The decision-making power of the industry and general unions resides in the assembly, you changed the link from popular assembly to deliberative assembly. I'm not sure which is best, but the assembly in question appears to be both deliberative and popular: deliberative in that it makes decisions, and popular in that it comes from the base, and everyone participates directly rather than through representatives or delegates. It seems to me that broad participation is one of the things that distinguishes the CNT from most other unions, and hence it is the link I was more inclined to choose.
Not a big deal either way, but it might suggest something that should be more spelled out in the article. ~- Jmabel | Talk 21:30, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it to be moved.
The result of the proposal was - not moved as no support.
Confederación Nacional del Trabajo → National Confederation of Labour — In accordance with Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English), I would like to move this article to National Confederation of Labour. The current WP policy states, in part, "If you are talking about a person, country, town, film, book, or video game, use the most commonly used English version of the name for the article, as you would find it in other encyclopedias and reference works. This makes it easy to find, and easy to compare information with other sources." Does anyone object? - N1h1l ( talk) 23:19, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's naming conventions.Note: 7940 Ghits for "National Confederation of Labour", 8489 for "Confederación Nacional del Trabajo" on English language pages. Skomorokh incite 23:23, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
I am aware of, but have not read, a book by Murray Bookchin called The Spanish Anarchists. I would guess that if someone wants to do a serious job on the history portion of this, they should read it. - Jmabel | Talk 00:15, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
OK, so I noticed that this article isn't getting pretty long, probably pushing TOO long, so I looked around to see what I could trim, and found the Objectives section. I redid it in my sandbox minus all the quotes. I put one in the ref, and the bylaws can be found at wikiquote, so don't seem necessary to me. Anyone object to me putting this in, or want to make any changes, have concerns? Murderbike ( talk) 05:59, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
I have removed this stub section from the article as it in effect a list/category, and needs to be converted into prose to meet encyclopedia standards. If the individuals mentioned below are notable, their contributions to the CNT should be mentioned in the relevant historical section. Skomorokh incite 13:58, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm feeling that the table listing all the congresses is not just ugly, but a bit weighty, and would be better replaced by a note along the lines of "There were X congresses between 1910 and the outbreak of the Civil War, and have been X congresses since the transition to democracy." Anyone attached to the table?
As well, I think the Voting section is way too quote-heavy, and would love to just summarize all the quotes. Now that we have a PDF of the document to point readers to, it seems silly to keep so many quotes from it in there. Murderbike ( talk) 22:29, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
What's the difference between Confederación Nacional del Trabajo and CNT-FAI? On the face of it, I'd merge the latter with the former.
I could be wrong, anyway. In any case, despite I see some refernces to FAI in this article, some clearer reference should be made to their mutual relationship in the lead, if not a proper merging itself. Mountolive all over Battersea, some hope and some dispair 13:21, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
Ok, I was basically just asking more than suggesting. Still, whatever their mutual relationship is (between the CNT/CNT-FAI and the FAI proper), it should be better reflected in both articles, this one and FAI's because, as it is now, they are both intermingled, that independence one from the other is not perceived nor the nature of their actual ties (which I asume they still have). Please you guys who know better, take some time to make this clearer whenever you have the chance. Mountolive all over Battersea, some hope and some dispair 00:16, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
So, I merged these two sections to cut down on single paragraph subsections, but it's kind of confusing, as I can't really tell the difference between the two things being described. Can anyone enlighten me? Murderbike ( talk) 20:51, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
I just tried to fix this in the article.-- Wafry ( talk) 12:39, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Firstly, well done to all concerned on your hard work on this article lately. I think in order to move the article forward we might want to consider nominating it for Good article status; although the article might not be up to scratch now, I think editors have the resolve if not the agenda to make serious improvements to this article, and an experienced GA reviewer could give us the suggestions necessary to get to work. Any thoughts? Skomorokh confer 00:23, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
For what it's worth, don't expect me to be back to being as available as I was. What I'm "concentrating on" is a fulltime job I just started, and which I hope I will be doing for many years. I'll try to help, but simply will be less available. - Jmabel | Talk 02:05, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
I believe I've adequately cleaned up the formatting of the sound clip.
Do we still have reason for the {{ Underconstruction}} tag, or can we remove that? - Jmabel | Talk 02:11, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
Multi-column reference section should work on Firefox, but IE doesn't support it. - Jmabel | Talk 02:12, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
I thought we should get feedback from outsiders if the editors of this article had ran out of ideas for developing it; if it's just a case of time/access limitations then there's not much point in rushing a nomination. I'll leave the nomination issue up to you fine encyclopaedians. скоморохъ 14:18, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
I'll probably wind up adding more. Murderbike ( talk) 18:31, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
In the membership section, the article says that "CNT membership is open to all, except members of the police forces, the military or armed groups". However, in http://www.cnt.es/node/3 , which is CNT's official webpage, it says:
"No hacemos distinción a la hora de la afiliación, los requisitos son: que seas trabajador o estudiante, en paro o en activo. Las únicas personas que no pueden afiliarse son aquellas que pertenecen algún cuerpo represivo (policías, militares, guardias de seguridad) ni empresarios u otros explotadores".
More or less, it could be translated as (translation is mine, so the quality isn't too good; in particular, I don't know if "active worker" is right english):
"We don't make any distinction when becoming a member, the only requirement is that you have to be a student or a worker, either active or unemployed. The only people which cannot be members are those who belong in a repressive force (police, soldiers, security guards), and employers or other kinds of exploiters.
There is more information in this paragraph than in the line in the article, so maybe it should be changed. If so, the web, which is their official one, could be quoted as the source. Should I change it? Randomlychaotic ( talk) 20:58, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
No-one said anything, so I've changed it Randomlychaotic ( talk) 12:30, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
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the entire article is anarchist POV. Why has Borkenau's criticism been removed? He was more critical of the Communists than the Anarchists, so why isn't he "neutral" (and it isn't sources which have to be NPOV, it's the presentation of them. If there was a problem with my presentation, the solution was not to delete the entire thing).
Presumably there are other sources who went to CNT-controlled catalonia who thought it was all gravy. BillMasen ( talk) 22:40, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
In the Links section, there was an erratum in the link to the ICEA web site, the name ICEA itself supposedly standing for Instituto de Crencias [sic] Económicas y de la Autogestión, whereas the real name is Instituto de Ciencias Económicas y de la Autogestión. "Ciencias" is the plural form of "ciencia" ("science"), whereas "crencias" doesn't mean anything in Spanish and could be taken as a misspelled form of "creencias" (meaning "beliefs"). I'm from Spain and I know a little bit about ICEA, but you can't check it by yourself in the ICEA website and the RAE one (the Spanish language academy). I've corrected it myself, please don't take offense on it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.199.224.161 ( talk) 15:32, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
The infobox says that the cnt has currently 10.000 Members while under the topic "current status" the number of members is stated as 50.000. "Today the CNT has about 50,000 members"
It says that there is a parallel structure of confederations based on industry but there don't seem to be any sources to confirm that this exists. -- CartoonDiablo ( talk) 21:00, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
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The last sentence in the "Organization and function > Structure > Relationship with the ICL" paragraph is wrong. CNT is still a section of CIT to this day. The referenced source is talking about IWA, not ICL-CIT. Can someone who knows to write good english fix this? Thnx — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.216.73.98 ( talk) 20:29, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
"The International Confederation of Labor (ICL, CIT in Spanish) founded on 2018 in Parma, is a transnational organization which consists of delegations from a number of countries. The organizations, are known as the sections of the ICL. CNT was the Spanish section,[9] but was disaffiliated in Dec. 2016." The last phrase is simply untrue, CNT is a current member of CIT/ICL. But above the facts, how can it be disafiliated in 2016 from a organization that was founded in 2018?! JoaquimCebuano ( talk) 05:43, 4 September 2021 (UTC)
The graph in question is "Evolution of the number of affiliates in the CNT from 1911 to 1937". The gaps between the data points are inconsistent, 8, 12, 5, 1 years.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d8/Cnt_afiliats.png
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The CNT not 35,000 members. Aslo 4.000 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.120.135.42 ( talk) 18:08, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
"It inspired the flag of Fascist Falange."
I know they're both red and black, but "inspired"? That would imply idelogical similarities between the anarchists and fascists, a silly proposition at best. -- Tothebarricades.tk 00:40, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)
I think it is correct. When José Antonio Primo de Rivera founded Falange they tried to use workers symbols (red and black flag and the blue shirt, like the ones used by industrial workers) to try to reach proletariats. That doesn´t mean there were ideological similarities, Falange just tried to use CNT´s image. Zetakah ( talk) 19:54, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
A fascist in a documentary said something like this: 'The flag of the workers organization, the CNT, was red and black. We wanted ours to be similar.' I don't remember which documentary it was in though.
The article is grammatically incorrect and needs cleanup to make it easier to read. FET 02:17, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
In the First Congress of the CNT (taken place in 1911, year in which the union received its name officially) a general strike, reason for the one was already summoned which the union was declared illegal up to 1914.
This sentence makes no sense, I am not even sure what it is supposed to mean. Can someone correct it please?
UnHoly 21:32, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
Is CNT a trade union, like the article currently states, or is it actually a federation of more or less independent regional and sectoral trade unions? / Alarm 13:36, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
It is interesting to note that many authoritarian left wing and right wing movements have made a point of appropriating the colors of anarcho-syndicalists in particular in order to try to lessen or re-direct their popularity and impact at crucial times in history.
Is there any sort of evidence for this at all? It seems to me that it's an attempt to boost the supposed significance of this group by suggesting groups such as the Nazis and Soviets were somehow terrified of it - which is, of course, ridiculously POV.
-- Cruci 17:03, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I added the infobox, but I don't have current info about the secretary general, or membership. I also moved the CNT-FAI flag into the box - is that the best image, or should it be just the CNT logo?-- Bookandcoffee 17:57, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
The secretary general is Rafael Corrales Valverde http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafael_Corrales
I've never seen a Notes section like the one in this article. I think it should changed to not only be more editor-friendly, but consistent with other wikipedia articles. If nobody has a problem with it, I'll go ahead and do it. Murderbike ( talk) 22:44, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
Oh yeah, and do you think that the whole thing reads like an essay? Just certain parts? Murderbike ( talk) 05:23, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
Hey, so I did a bit of work on this article over the holidays, lots of sourcing, changing a lot of awkwardly translated wording, etc. So I wanted to see if you'd be up for outlining in detail the problems you see with the article that warrant the tags at the top, so I can keep plugging away at it and try to get it up to Good Article status. Hope your break was good! Murderbike ( talk) 19:34, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
On the whole, unlike Skomorokh, I think the lengthy organizational section is useful. True bottom-up organization like this is so unusual that I think a detailed description is informative. However:
In particular, in "agreements from previous assemblies" is very confusing. What assemblies, precisely? Does "previous" just mean "smaller and held earlier in the process" or does it refer to assemblies from previous years? - Jmabel | Talk 19:23, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
-- Wafry ( talk) 20:51, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
I've been reading some of Anarcosindicalismo básico and this is what I got:
So, how do we translate each one? I propose: Assembly, Committee, Plenary Assembly, (Congress), Plenary Commitee, in that order. Should we use simply "plenary" to refer to one of the concepts, which one then? -- Wafry ( talk) 21:39, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
I was thinking that maybe the map and list of all the regional federations could just be condensed into one item. The two things take up way more space than the actual text of the section, and I think the whole list of federations may be a little to weighty. Any thoughts? Murderbike ( talk) 23:53, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
Or maybe put it into prose.-- Wafry ( talk) 00:08, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone know a clean way to get a margin between the text and those three right-aligned tables? - Jmabel | Talk 06:50, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
I cleaned up a citation that I've now characterized as "A series of three articles about the Scala Case from the CNT point of view", but I'm not sure it really qualifies under our policy about reliable sources. This series of three articles is part of the Revista Polémica site. I know that they do put out an actual magazine, but it's not clear whether these articles by Jesús Martínez actually appeared in the magazine. He is a moderator on the site, so he isn't just a random person blogging there, but it's not clear how much that means (e.g. a Wikipedia administrator doesn't speak for Wikipedia editorially, just in process matters). Also, what exactly is Revista Polémica's relationship to the CNT? - Jmabel | Talk 07:09, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
What do you think we should do with that massive list of pages full of posters that are currently in a footnote? Previously, it was just a bunch of basically blind URLs, all captioned as "here" (see Click here for why that is a bad idea). Now they are properly explained, but the result is a monster footnote. Is there any way conforming to MoS that we can give this a section of its own (maybe within external links) and still somehow use this to cite for the statement about their use of posters? - Jmabel | Talk 18:46, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
I've added a bit to this section, though the mix of the new material and the old is a bit awkward at the moment. Does this article warrant an "under construction" tag at the top? Murderbike ( talk) 23:56, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
In the article, there is a reference to the "CNT 7th congress (in Granada)" but the table shows a 7th congress in Bilbao, and an 8th in Granada. Something is wrong, either the number, the place, or the table. - Jmabel | Talk 05:20, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
There are a lot of translated quotations from Anarcosindicalismo básico in the article, some of them translated rather poorly. They are attributed as Basic anarcho-syndicalism. Is there a published translation of this work? If so, we should quote the published translation. If not, and if we intend to keep this many quotations (and I think they are generally good) we should translate these passages more carefully and include the Spanish originals of passages in footnotes. In either case, we should (if at all possible) include page numbers in footnotes (using the Harvard-style citation we use elsewhere) and be clear about what edition we are quoting. - Jmabel | Talk 05:31, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
Similarly for the quotation from Joan Ferrer and any others originally in Spanish, Catalan, etc. - Jmabel | Talk 05:47, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
Also, for the Spanish-language Anarcosindicalismo básico: there seems to be an online PDF at [3], but there is no way to tell that the text corresponds to any particular edition. Worth linking? (This is mostly for the one quotation we've had to translate ourselves, which, judging by this copy, is not all that literal a translation, though accurate in spirit.) - Jmabel | Talk 01:39, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
Similarly, it looks like Orwell is at least slightly misquoted, but I don't have the original at hand. - Jmabel | Talk 20:45, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
Ok, so I'm mainly asking this in the context of wanting to bring this article up to at least GA status, if not FA. Does it seem like all the huge quotes are a bit much, and should be worked into the text as much as possible? I'm thinking particularly of the Basic Anarchosyndicalism stuff, and the two largish quotes from Orwell (which unfortunately is not browseable on Google Books, maybe I'll see if the library has it). Murderbike ( talk) 22:46, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
"…multitudinary meetings…": an odd phrase. Does this simply mean "mass meetings" or something else? - Jmabel | Talk 05:29, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
"One year later, a group of CGT members left this union to be able to receive subventions…" Does "one year later" here mean in 1980 or 1990? Two different events had just been alluded to. Also "subventions" is vague (and, in English, rather obscure). Does it refer specifically to some kind of government subsidy, and if so precisely what? - Jmabel | Talk 05:37, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
We might want also to look at the corresponding (stubby) German-language article. I notice, for example, that its lead (which is really all there is to it) mentions the peak membership during the Spanish Civil War, probably worth doing; also, it appears to give a whole different set of references, probably worth a look. - Jmabel | Talk 01:46, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
We need to work out how to factor some material between the historical sections here and the article Anarchism in Spain. They cover a lot of the same territory; in general, we will want the main narrative in one place and a link and a summary in the other. - Jmabel | Talk 01:51, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
Wafry, I see that in "The decision-making power of the industry and general unions resides in the assembly, you changed the link from popular assembly to deliberative assembly. I'm not sure which is best, but the assembly in question appears to be both deliberative and popular: deliberative in that it makes decisions, and popular in that it comes from the base, and everyone participates directly rather than through representatives or delegates. It seems to me that broad participation is one of the things that distinguishes the CNT from most other unions, and hence it is the link I was more inclined to choose.
Not a big deal either way, but it might suggest something that should be more spelled out in the article. ~- Jmabel | Talk 21:30, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it to be moved.
The result of the proposal was - not moved as no support.
Confederación Nacional del Trabajo → National Confederation of Labour — In accordance with Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English), I would like to move this article to National Confederation of Labour. The current WP policy states, in part, "If you are talking about a person, country, town, film, book, or video game, use the most commonly used English version of the name for the article, as you would find it in other encyclopedias and reference works. This makes it easy to find, and easy to compare information with other sources." Does anyone object? - N1h1l ( talk) 23:19, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's naming conventions.Note: 7940 Ghits for "National Confederation of Labour", 8489 for "Confederación Nacional del Trabajo" on English language pages. Skomorokh incite 23:23, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
I am aware of, but have not read, a book by Murray Bookchin called The Spanish Anarchists. I would guess that if someone wants to do a serious job on the history portion of this, they should read it. - Jmabel | Talk 00:15, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
OK, so I noticed that this article isn't getting pretty long, probably pushing TOO long, so I looked around to see what I could trim, and found the Objectives section. I redid it in my sandbox minus all the quotes. I put one in the ref, and the bylaws can be found at wikiquote, so don't seem necessary to me. Anyone object to me putting this in, or want to make any changes, have concerns? Murderbike ( talk) 05:59, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
I have removed this stub section from the article as it in effect a list/category, and needs to be converted into prose to meet encyclopedia standards. If the individuals mentioned below are notable, their contributions to the CNT should be mentioned in the relevant historical section. Skomorokh incite 13:58, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm feeling that the table listing all the congresses is not just ugly, but a bit weighty, and would be better replaced by a note along the lines of "There were X congresses between 1910 and the outbreak of the Civil War, and have been X congresses since the transition to democracy." Anyone attached to the table?
As well, I think the Voting section is way too quote-heavy, and would love to just summarize all the quotes. Now that we have a PDF of the document to point readers to, it seems silly to keep so many quotes from it in there. Murderbike ( talk) 22:29, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
What's the difference between Confederación Nacional del Trabajo and CNT-FAI? On the face of it, I'd merge the latter with the former.
I could be wrong, anyway. In any case, despite I see some refernces to FAI in this article, some clearer reference should be made to their mutual relationship in the lead, if not a proper merging itself. Mountolive all over Battersea, some hope and some dispair 13:21, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
Ok, I was basically just asking more than suggesting. Still, whatever their mutual relationship is (between the CNT/CNT-FAI and the FAI proper), it should be better reflected in both articles, this one and FAI's because, as it is now, they are both intermingled, that independence one from the other is not perceived nor the nature of their actual ties (which I asume they still have). Please you guys who know better, take some time to make this clearer whenever you have the chance. Mountolive all over Battersea, some hope and some dispair 00:16, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
So, I merged these two sections to cut down on single paragraph subsections, but it's kind of confusing, as I can't really tell the difference between the two things being described. Can anyone enlighten me? Murderbike ( talk) 20:51, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
I just tried to fix this in the article.-- Wafry ( talk) 12:39, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Firstly, well done to all concerned on your hard work on this article lately. I think in order to move the article forward we might want to consider nominating it for Good article status; although the article might not be up to scratch now, I think editors have the resolve if not the agenda to make serious improvements to this article, and an experienced GA reviewer could give us the suggestions necessary to get to work. Any thoughts? Skomorokh confer 00:23, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
For what it's worth, don't expect me to be back to being as available as I was. What I'm "concentrating on" is a fulltime job I just started, and which I hope I will be doing for many years. I'll try to help, but simply will be less available. - Jmabel | Talk 02:05, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
I believe I've adequately cleaned up the formatting of the sound clip.
Do we still have reason for the {{ Underconstruction}} tag, or can we remove that? - Jmabel | Talk 02:11, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
Multi-column reference section should work on Firefox, but IE doesn't support it. - Jmabel | Talk 02:12, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
I thought we should get feedback from outsiders if the editors of this article had ran out of ideas for developing it; if it's just a case of time/access limitations then there's not much point in rushing a nomination. I'll leave the nomination issue up to you fine encyclopaedians. скоморохъ 14:18, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
I'll probably wind up adding more. Murderbike ( talk) 18:31, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
In the membership section, the article says that "CNT membership is open to all, except members of the police forces, the military or armed groups". However, in http://www.cnt.es/node/3 , which is CNT's official webpage, it says:
"No hacemos distinción a la hora de la afiliación, los requisitos son: que seas trabajador o estudiante, en paro o en activo. Las únicas personas que no pueden afiliarse son aquellas que pertenecen algún cuerpo represivo (policías, militares, guardias de seguridad) ni empresarios u otros explotadores".
More or less, it could be translated as (translation is mine, so the quality isn't too good; in particular, I don't know if "active worker" is right english):
"We don't make any distinction when becoming a member, the only requirement is that you have to be a student or a worker, either active or unemployed. The only people which cannot be members are those who belong in a repressive force (police, soldiers, security guards), and employers or other kinds of exploiters.
There is more information in this paragraph than in the line in the article, so maybe it should be changed. If so, the web, which is their official one, could be quoted as the source. Should I change it? Randomlychaotic ( talk) 20:58, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
No-one said anything, so I've changed it Randomlychaotic ( talk) 12:30, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
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the entire article is anarchist POV. Why has Borkenau's criticism been removed? He was more critical of the Communists than the Anarchists, so why isn't he "neutral" (and it isn't sources which have to be NPOV, it's the presentation of them. If there was a problem with my presentation, the solution was not to delete the entire thing).
Presumably there are other sources who went to CNT-controlled catalonia who thought it was all gravy. BillMasen ( talk) 22:40, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
In the Links section, there was an erratum in the link to the ICEA web site, the name ICEA itself supposedly standing for Instituto de Crencias [sic] Económicas y de la Autogestión, whereas the real name is Instituto de Ciencias Económicas y de la Autogestión. "Ciencias" is the plural form of "ciencia" ("science"), whereas "crencias" doesn't mean anything in Spanish and could be taken as a misspelled form of "creencias" (meaning "beliefs"). I'm from Spain and I know a little bit about ICEA, but you can't check it by yourself in the ICEA website and the RAE one (the Spanish language academy). I've corrected it myself, please don't take offense on it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.199.224.161 ( talk) 15:32, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
The infobox says that the cnt has currently 10.000 Members while under the topic "current status" the number of members is stated as 50.000. "Today the CNT has about 50,000 members"
It says that there is a parallel structure of confederations based on industry but there don't seem to be any sources to confirm that this exists. -- CartoonDiablo ( talk) 21:00, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
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The last sentence in the "Organization and function > Structure > Relationship with the ICL" paragraph is wrong. CNT is still a section of CIT to this day. The referenced source is talking about IWA, not ICL-CIT. Can someone who knows to write good english fix this? Thnx — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.216.73.98 ( talk) 20:29, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
"The International Confederation of Labor (ICL, CIT in Spanish) founded on 2018 in Parma, is a transnational organization which consists of delegations from a number of countries. The organizations, are known as the sections of the ICL. CNT was the Spanish section,[9] but was disaffiliated in Dec. 2016." The last phrase is simply untrue, CNT is a current member of CIT/ICL. But above the facts, how can it be disafiliated in 2016 from a organization that was founded in 2018?! JoaquimCebuano ( talk) 05:43, 4 September 2021 (UTC)
The graph in question is "Evolution of the number of affiliates in the CNT from 1911 to 1937". The gaps between the data points are inconsistent, 8, 12, 5, 1 years.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d8/Cnt_afiliats.png