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I tried to find Cornwall in Prosopography of Medieval Lands but this was a failure.-- Johnsoniensis ( talk) 02:08, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
It looks like most of the sources given have him primarily under the name Condor. Would anyone object if I moved the page to Condor of Cornwall (over the existing redirect), and created a new article for his son under this name? ‑‑ Yodin T 12:22, 23 April 2022 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved. Andrewa ( talk) 20:31, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
Cadoc of Cornwall → Condor of Cornwall – The sources that I've come across give Condor (alternatively Condurus/Candor/etc.) as his primary name, with Cadoc as a possible variant; his son's name is given as Cadoc (sometimes spelled Caddock etc.), with Condor II as a secondary variant. This move will free up this title for an article on his son, while distinguishing the two using their most frequently used WP:COMMONNAMEs. ‑‑ Yodin T 15:59, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
I can't find anything that supports the claim that William of Worcester first mentioned Condor. I've tried searching through the Itineraries; I'm not 100% sure (it's not a simple book to search, and I haven't tried to read through it all) but there doesn't seem to be anything there about Condor. The earliest mention seems to be William Camden's "modern writers", but I can't find who these are. I've also tried to trace the addition of the William of Worcester Condor mention across Wikipedia here, along with any books they add as references:
See also this discussion, which mentions William of Malmesbury as another source: this looks like it's traced to this website by John Angarrack, from June 2008 or before. This looks like a misreading of the sources: Malmesbury is cited in footnote 1 (for the statement that Athelstan set the Cornish border), while the website cites Worcester (without giving any details) for Cadoc/Condor in footnote 5. ‑‑ Yodin T 19:28, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
The earliest sources we've got are by Camden and Carew, who say they're working from recent sources:
One suggestion is that this could be the records of the heraldic visitations which travelled the country from 1530 to 1688, requiring the nobility to set out their claims to heraldry and titles. It does seem a plausible explanation for why Condor appears at around this time (either as a genuine tradition, or an invention). I haven't been able to find any mentions of Condor/Cadoc or any of the variant spellings in either of the two published editions of the Cornwall visitations ( Vivian 1874 and Vivian 1887) or Devon ( Vivian 1895), but these could well be edited down versions of the original manuscripts (they don't seem to generally go back as far as "euery Kings dayes since the conquest"), possibly not based on the "originals with signatures" and "office copies", or any "church notes", etc. All that said, there don't seem to be any reliable sources that cover this yet, so there's nothing to add to the article until something's published on it. ‑‑ Yodin T 12:41, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I tried to find Cornwall in Prosopography of Medieval Lands but this was a failure.-- Johnsoniensis ( talk) 02:08, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
It looks like most of the sources given have him primarily under the name Condor. Would anyone object if I moved the page to Condor of Cornwall (over the existing redirect), and created a new article for his son under this name? ‑‑ Yodin T 12:22, 23 April 2022 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved. Andrewa ( talk) 20:31, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
Cadoc of Cornwall → Condor of Cornwall – The sources that I've come across give Condor (alternatively Condurus/Candor/etc.) as his primary name, with Cadoc as a possible variant; his son's name is given as Cadoc (sometimes spelled Caddock etc.), with Condor II as a secondary variant. This move will free up this title for an article on his son, while distinguishing the two using their most frequently used WP:COMMONNAMEs. ‑‑ Yodin T 15:59, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
I can't find anything that supports the claim that William of Worcester first mentioned Condor. I've tried searching through the Itineraries; I'm not 100% sure (it's not a simple book to search, and I haven't tried to read through it all) but there doesn't seem to be anything there about Condor. The earliest mention seems to be William Camden's "modern writers", but I can't find who these are. I've also tried to trace the addition of the William of Worcester Condor mention across Wikipedia here, along with any books they add as references:
See also this discussion, which mentions William of Malmesbury as another source: this looks like it's traced to this website by John Angarrack, from June 2008 or before. This looks like a misreading of the sources: Malmesbury is cited in footnote 1 (for the statement that Athelstan set the Cornish border), while the website cites Worcester (without giving any details) for Cadoc/Condor in footnote 5. ‑‑ Yodin T 19:28, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
The earliest sources we've got are by Camden and Carew, who say they're working from recent sources:
One suggestion is that this could be the records of the heraldic visitations which travelled the country from 1530 to 1688, requiring the nobility to set out their claims to heraldry and titles. It does seem a plausible explanation for why Condor appears at around this time (either as a genuine tradition, or an invention). I haven't been able to find any mentions of Condor/Cadoc or any of the variant spellings in either of the two published editions of the Cornwall visitations ( Vivian 1874 and Vivian 1887) or Devon ( Vivian 1895), but these could well be edited down versions of the original manuscripts (they don't seem to generally go back as far as "euery Kings dayes since the conquest"), possibly not based on the "originals with signatures" and "office copies", or any "church notes", etc. All that said, there don't seem to be any reliable sources that cover this yet, so there's nothing to add to the article until something's published on it. ‑‑ Yodin T 12:41, 26 November 2022 (UTC)