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The reference to Jackie Stanley and her/his work is needed. I could find no mention of the worker or the work in the literature on the history of the complement system. Certainly C3b had not been described in the 1930. Too much of the referencing in the whole entry is to textbooks rather than to the scientific literature. Fingermoving ( talk) 17:20, 4 March 2015 (UTC) |
A summary of this article appears in Immune system. |
I'm going through the complement system and comparing it to an Immunology text book (specifically, Immunology, Infection, and Infection by Pier, Lyczak, and Wetzler, copyright 2004) and the Alternative pathway could use some work, both for clarity and accuracy.
Major Points: C3 spontaneously breaks and activates because of a breakdown in a thioester bond via a condensation reaction. In short, it's mildly unstable in water. This results in C3(H20). C3(H20) is then capable of covalently binding to a membrane surface if it is near enough. Upon binding with a cellular membrane C3(H20) is capable of being bound by Factor B. Upon being bound, Factor B is then cleaved by Factor D into components Bb and Ba, Bb is the larger of the two components and stays attached to C3(H20) to form C3(H20)Bb, a C3 convertase which cleaves further C3 molecules to amplify the effect. Ba diffuses away. C3 convertase cleaves C3 molecules into C3b and C3a, of which C3b is the larger of the two and can bind to C3(H20)Bb to form C3(H20)Bb3b, which has C5 convertase activity.
Protection/Dissociation of C3(H20): Since C3(H20) formation is spontaneous, there is a greater chance of it causing a Membrane Attack Complex (MAC for short) to form on a host cell. This is prevented by several ways. First, Factor H in the blood causes the dissociation of C3(H20)Bb. Second, C3(H20)Bb is inherently unstable and eventually will dissociate on its own. Furthermore, mammalian cell membranes have both sialic acid and heparin, which promote binding of factor H. Factor H, in addition to destabilizing the C3(H20)Bb molecule, acts as a cofactor to allow Factor I to cleave C3(H20)Bb and inactivate it. In addition to this, mammalian cells also have structurally homologous proteins to Factor H embedded in their membranes, which have the same effect.
Stabilization of C3(H20): C3(H20) can be stabilized by the protein properdin, which is present in the blood stream.
That's enough on the alternative pathway for now, I'll also work on a more detailed diagram of the 3 pathways and how they intertwine. Let me know if I should go ahead and work these changes into the page. ~Richard, e-mail Kinnin@gmail.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 157.62.190.17 ( talk) 21:39, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
I agree the page needs work on the complement cascade. I compared what's here to a couple textbooks and found mistakes galore. I wouldn't trust it until someone does some serious work. As far as I can tell, the classical C3 convertase is NOT C3b2a, but rather, C3b2b. I changed the mistakes I found, but there may be more, But I'm just a medical student. 134.84.152.128 ( talk) 03:51, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
Unfortunately the nomenclature of C2a/b has changed. The larger fragment of C2 is now largely referred to as C2b (to be consistent with other fragments), but was initially referred to as C2a. 67.148.6.92 ( talk) 17:14, 20 August 2016 (UTC)
Typo in "This binding leads to *cnformational* changes in C1q molecule..."
I assume it should read conformational but I'm savvy enough on this matter to be sure... someone else please correct it and delete this.-- nunocordeiro
There is need for this article to be both in Category:Complement system and its parent Category:Immune system - parent/grandparent conflict (P/G-C). So i removed the grandparent link. I also added Category:Complement system to Category:Acute phase proteins b/c it doesn't make sence to have the article "Complement system" in the "Acute phase proteins" tree structure and not have Category:Complement system, as a result of that change i had to remove the direct link from here to "Acute phase proteins" b/c of another P/G-C. -- Boris 17:12, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
I came across the diagram I have inserted into the article while looking for diagrams for the Immune system. I added the detailed information to the diagram, hopefully it suits your needs. If more info is needed I can add it, relatively easily, to the existing diagram, let me know.-- DO11.10 21:19, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
Where is Factor D on the Alternative Pathway diagram? I think the diagrams really need replacing by an english version, though these are quite clear, to their credit. Philbradley 11:31, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
Figures at the additional image section have description in Polish. Would someone who understand it be alble to translate into English? Following are the description where words with (ok) marks were perceived. There are (1) to (5) words need to be translated.
[Droga_klasyczna.png]
(ok)Przeciwcialo = antibody
(1) rozpoznawane epitopy blonowe
(2) lizowana blona
[Complemento_C3_convertasi_via_classica.gif]
(3) Il C1
(4) si lega agli anticarpi adesi antigeni di superficie di un micropganismo
(ok)microganismo = microorganism
(5) Il C1 attivato scinde il C4
(ok)C3 convertasi = C3 convertase
--
Tossh eng (
talk)
14:14, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
Three groups of words are added to the above comment:
[Formowanie MAC.svg]
(6) Kompleks konwertazy C5
(7) woda lizozym antybiotyki
(8) potas ATP aminokwasy
--
Tossh eng (
talk)
23:26, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
There's an error on the diagram: is rapresented C4b + C2b as C3 convertase of the classical way, but in the text is wrote C4b + C2a as a C3 convertase. Who create the image can rename it?
--
Lex117 (
talk)
10:45, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
I can't work out from reading the article if the complement system is only found in mammals such as humans, or if it is present in other organisms. TimVickers 23:32, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
Caption currently reads, "A complement protein attacking an invader", which is incorrect - it is a Membrane attack complex, causing cell lysis. It is made of several different complement protein and you cannot tell if it is a host cell or a foreign cell. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.16.95.94 ( talk) 21:47, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
In the paragraph about the classical pathway, it is explained that the C3 convertase complex should now correctly be called C4b2b. But in the paragraph "Alternative pathway", it still says that C4b and C2a combine to make C3 convertase. I think this should be changed to "C4b and C2b etc. ..." 85.127.84.16 ( talk) 14:04, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
I think that this article should at least mention lab tests commonly used to measure parameters of this system, for example the total hemolytic complement (CH50). Thomas.Hedden =============== For god’s sake, why put an image in an important article like this one in French? English is the universal scientific language – deal with it, and stop wasting people’s time. ======================
This controversy has been swirling for years. User Tossh eng made changes that do not resolve or capture the controversy, just tilt this page in one direction. I would have used that user's talk page, but found that page unusable - seems to be used as a sandbox. Janeway made a strong case for rational reassignment of C2b to the large fragment, so that all large fragments are labelled 'b' and small/diffusable fragments are 'a'. This would remove one of the largest obstacles to students' learning of the cascade (and acceptance of the cascade as anything but arbitrary). The major downside is the large literature that precedes this. Again, the argument is long-running. We could present both sides, as was done in earlier versions of this page. I do not agree with simply tilting to one side. -- Scray ( talk) 10:33, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
The standard nomenclature of active complement protein requires adition of a bar over the name of the active state of the protein. For example, the protein C4b2a3b should ideally have a bar over 4b2a3b. Similarly, C1qr2s2 must have a bar over r2s2 as in the C1 complex these two become the active proteolytic components. I am not aware of the availability of this formatting option of putting bar over letters in Wikipedia, but if not shown the nomenclature becomes clearly wrong. Proquence ( talk) 09:26, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
I would like to suggest that this article on the Complement system be merged with its subdivisions (the three pathways: classical complement pathway, alternative complement pathway, mannose-binding lectin pathway). I don't think it is necessary to have 3 short articles about each pathway when it can all be incorporated under the common theme of the complement system. Furthermore, it is unnecessary to name an article "mannose-binding lectin pathway" (too focused, wikipedia is not a dictionary); instead, these links should be re-directed to Complement system. -- comcc ( talk) 10:14, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
The following sentence in the lede could use some work: "It is part of the immune system called the innate immune system that is not adaptable and does not change over the course of an individual's lifetime." The innate immune system certainly changes over time and is in some respects "adaptable". Just a thought. Keepcalmandcarryon ( talk) 23:49, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
There seems to be no evidence that Jackie Stanley exists. Can someone please link to their work on opsonization? From the history of the page, it appears that these two edits got the name into the history section but neither the original "RR Stanley" nor the changed "Jackie Stanley" seem to be searchable terms nor is any cited article provided to attest to the existence of this "renowned" researcher:
(cur | prev) 16:51, 9 May 2010 193.63.36.54 (talk) . . (21,255 bytes) (+4) . . (→History) (undo)
(cur | prev) 13:05, 9 May 2010 193.63.36.12 (talk) . . (21,251 bytes) (+297) . . (→History) (undo) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.8.123.205 ( talk)
The first two paragraphs of the article were copied and pasted directly from the introduction of a paper authored by Vahid Afshar-Kharghan titled "The role of the complement system in cancer", copyright © 2017, American Society for Clinical Investigation. A copy of the paper can be found on the National Institutes of Health website at this URL: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5330758/ . I will try to tag the paragraphs in the article as soon as I leave this post. Metrowestjp ( talk) 22:36, 29 April 2021 (UTC)
Edit: I was able to add the tag, but I've been having a problem with my edit summaries disappearing, so the edit summary is blank, but it should have read, "Copyright violation. First paragraph and first half of second paragraph copied and pasted form a copyrighted paper." Metrowestjp ( talk) 22:58, 29 April 2021 (UTC)
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5330758/. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see
"using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or
"donating copyrighted materials" if you are.)
For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and, if allowed under fair use, may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, providing it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore, such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. |→ Spaully ~talk~ 09:50, 30 April 2021 (UTC)
Suggest using plasma in place of serum. Serum only exists after blood completely clots, while plasma is "unclotted" and contains all coagulation factors and is what exists in vivo. 2603:9001:670A:9C18:B0BB:AFF6:4186:70CE ( talk) 11:51, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The reference to Jackie Stanley and her/his work is needed. I could find no mention of the worker or the work in the literature on the history of the complement system. Certainly C3b had not been described in the 1930. Too much of the referencing in the whole entry is to textbooks rather than to the scientific literature. Fingermoving ( talk) 17:20, 4 March 2015 (UTC) |
A summary of this article appears in Immune system. |
I'm going through the complement system and comparing it to an Immunology text book (specifically, Immunology, Infection, and Infection by Pier, Lyczak, and Wetzler, copyright 2004) and the Alternative pathway could use some work, both for clarity and accuracy.
Major Points: C3 spontaneously breaks and activates because of a breakdown in a thioester bond via a condensation reaction. In short, it's mildly unstable in water. This results in C3(H20). C3(H20) is then capable of covalently binding to a membrane surface if it is near enough. Upon binding with a cellular membrane C3(H20) is capable of being bound by Factor B. Upon being bound, Factor B is then cleaved by Factor D into components Bb and Ba, Bb is the larger of the two components and stays attached to C3(H20) to form C3(H20)Bb, a C3 convertase which cleaves further C3 molecules to amplify the effect. Ba diffuses away. C3 convertase cleaves C3 molecules into C3b and C3a, of which C3b is the larger of the two and can bind to C3(H20)Bb to form C3(H20)Bb3b, which has C5 convertase activity.
Protection/Dissociation of C3(H20): Since C3(H20) formation is spontaneous, there is a greater chance of it causing a Membrane Attack Complex (MAC for short) to form on a host cell. This is prevented by several ways. First, Factor H in the blood causes the dissociation of C3(H20)Bb. Second, C3(H20)Bb is inherently unstable and eventually will dissociate on its own. Furthermore, mammalian cell membranes have both sialic acid and heparin, which promote binding of factor H. Factor H, in addition to destabilizing the C3(H20)Bb molecule, acts as a cofactor to allow Factor I to cleave C3(H20)Bb and inactivate it. In addition to this, mammalian cells also have structurally homologous proteins to Factor H embedded in their membranes, which have the same effect.
Stabilization of C3(H20): C3(H20) can be stabilized by the protein properdin, which is present in the blood stream.
That's enough on the alternative pathway for now, I'll also work on a more detailed diagram of the 3 pathways and how they intertwine. Let me know if I should go ahead and work these changes into the page. ~Richard, e-mail Kinnin@gmail.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 157.62.190.17 ( talk) 21:39, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
I agree the page needs work on the complement cascade. I compared what's here to a couple textbooks and found mistakes galore. I wouldn't trust it until someone does some serious work. As far as I can tell, the classical C3 convertase is NOT C3b2a, but rather, C3b2b. I changed the mistakes I found, but there may be more, But I'm just a medical student. 134.84.152.128 ( talk) 03:51, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
Unfortunately the nomenclature of C2a/b has changed. The larger fragment of C2 is now largely referred to as C2b (to be consistent with other fragments), but was initially referred to as C2a. 67.148.6.92 ( talk) 17:14, 20 August 2016 (UTC)
Typo in "This binding leads to *cnformational* changes in C1q molecule..."
I assume it should read conformational but I'm savvy enough on this matter to be sure... someone else please correct it and delete this.-- nunocordeiro
There is need for this article to be both in Category:Complement system and its parent Category:Immune system - parent/grandparent conflict (P/G-C). So i removed the grandparent link. I also added Category:Complement system to Category:Acute phase proteins b/c it doesn't make sence to have the article "Complement system" in the "Acute phase proteins" tree structure and not have Category:Complement system, as a result of that change i had to remove the direct link from here to "Acute phase proteins" b/c of another P/G-C. -- Boris 17:12, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
I came across the diagram I have inserted into the article while looking for diagrams for the Immune system. I added the detailed information to the diagram, hopefully it suits your needs. If more info is needed I can add it, relatively easily, to the existing diagram, let me know.-- DO11.10 21:19, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
Where is Factor D on the Alternative Pathway diagram? I think the diagrams really need replacing by an english version, though these are quite clear, to their credit. Philbradley 11:31, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
Figures at the additional image section have description in Polish. Would someone who understand it be alble to translate into English? Following are the description where words with (ok) marks were perceived. There are (1) to (5) words need to be translated.
[Droga_klasyczna.png]
(ok)Przeciwcialo = antibody
(1) rozpoznawane epitopy blonowe
(2) lizowana blona
[Complemento_C3_convertasi_via_classica.gif]
(3) Il C1
(4) si lega agli anticarpi adesi antigeni di superficie di un micropganismo
(ok)microganismo = microorganism
(5) Il C1 attivato scinde il C4
(ok)C3 convertasi = C3 convertase
--
Tossh eng (
talk)
14:14, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
Three groups of words are added to the above comment:
[Formowanie MAC.svg]
(6) Kompleks konwertazy C5
(7) woda lizozym antybiotyki
(8) potas ATP aminokwasy
--
Tossh eng (
talk)
23:26, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
There's an error on the diagram: is rapresented C4b + C2b as C3 convertase of the classical way, but in the text is wrote C4b + C2a as a C3 convertase. Who create the image can rename it?
--
Lex117 (
talk)
10:45, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
I can't work out from reading the article if the complement system is only found in mammals such as humans, or if it is present in other organisms. TimVickers 23:32, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
Caption currently reads, "A complement protein attacking an invader", which is incorrect - it is a Membrane attack complex, causing cell lysis. It is made of several different complement protein and you cannot tell if it is a host cell or a foreign cell. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.16.95.94 ( talk) 21:47, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
In the paragraph about the classical pathway, it is explained that the C3 convertase complex should now correctly be called C4b2b. But in the paragraph "Alternative pathway", it still says that C4b and C2a combine to make C3 convertase. I think this should be changed to "C4b and C2b etc. ..." 85.127.84.16 ( talk) 14:04, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
I think that this article should at least mention lab tests commonly used to measure parameters of this system, for example the total hemolytic complement (CH50). Thomas.Hedden =============== For god’s sake, why put an image in an important article like this one in French? English is the universal scientific language – deal with it, and stop wasting people’s time. ======================
This controversy has been swirling for years. User Tossh eng made changes that do not resolve or capture the controversy, just tilt this page in one direction. I would have used that user's talk page, but found that page unusable - seems to be used as a sandbox. Janeway made a strong case for rational reassignment of C2b to the large fragment, so that all large fragments are labelled 'b' and small/diffusable fragments are 'a'. This would remove one of the largest obstacles to students' learning of the cascade (and acceptance of the cascade as anything but arbitrary). The major downside is the large literature that precedes this. Again, the argument is long-running. We could present both sides, as was done in earlier versions of this page. I do not agree with simply tilting to one side. -- Scray ( talk) 10:33, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
The standard nomenclature of active complement protein requires adition of a bar over the name of the active state of the protein. For example, the protein C4b2a3b should ideally have a bar over 4b2a3b. Similarly, C1qr2s2 must have a bar over r2s2 as in the C1 complex these two become the active proteolytic components. I am not aware of the availability of this formatting option of putting bar over letters in Wikipedia, but if not shown the nomenclature becomes clearly wrong. Proquence ( talk) 09:26, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
I would like to suggest that this article on the Complement system be merged with its subdivisions (the three pathways: classical complement pathway, alternative complement pathway, mannose-binding lectin pathway). I don't think it is necessary to have 3 short articles about each pathway when it can all be incorporated under the common theme of the complement system. Furthermore, it is unnecessary to name an article "mannose-binding lectin pathway" (too focused, wikipedia is not a dictionary); instead, these links should be re-directed to Complement system. -- comcc ( talk) 10:14, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
The following sentence in the lede could use some work: "It is part of the immune system called the innate immune system that is not adaptable and does not change over the course of an individual's lifetime." The innate immune system certainly changes over time and is in some respects "adaptable". Just a thought. Keepcalmandcarryon ( talk) 23:49, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
There seems to be no evidence that Jackie Stanley exists. Can someone please link to their work on opsonization? From the history of the page, it appears that these two edits got the name into the history section but neither the original "RR Stanley" nor the changed "Jackie Stanley" seem to be searchable terms nor is any cited article provided to attest to the existence of this "renowned" researcher:
(cur | prev) 16:51, 9 May 2010 193.63.36.54 (talk) . . (21,255 bytes) (+4) . . (→History) (undo)
(cur | prev) 13:05, 9 May 2010 193.63.36.12 (talk) . . (21,251 bytes) (+297) . . (→History) (undo) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.8.123.205 ( talk)
The first two paragraphs of the article were copied and pasted directly from the introduction of a paper authored by Vahid Afshar-Kharghan titled "The role of the complement system in cancer", copyright © 2017, American Society for Clinical Investigation. A copy of the paper can be found on the National Institutes of Health website at this URL: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5330758/ . I will try to tag the paragraphs in the article as soon as I leave this post. Metrowestjp ( talk) 22:36, 29 April 2021 (UTC)
Edit: I was able to add the tag, but I've been having a problem with my edit summaries disappearing, so the edit summary is blank, but it should have read, "Copyright violation. First paragraph and first half of second paragraph copied and pasted form a copyrighted paper." Metrowestjp ( talk) 22:58, 29 April 2021 (UTC)
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5330758/. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see
"using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or
"donating copyrighted materials" if you are.)
For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and, if allowed under fair use, may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, providing it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore, such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. |→ Spaully ~talk~ 09:50, 30 April 2021 (UTC)
Suggest using plasma in place of serum. Serum only exists after blood completely clots, while plasma is "unclotted" and contains all coagulation factors and is what exists in vivo. 2603:9001:670A:9C18:B0BB:AFF6:4186:70CE ( talk) 11:51, 22 November 2021 (UTC)