This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
The article relates to genealogy. Is it really part of a Genetics project? If yes, why is the blurb on the talk page instead of the article page? Wgroleau ( talk) 17:42, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
The majority of the software listed here is not notable, having no wikipedia articles for themselves. Such software should be removed from this list per WP:NOT#REPOSITORY. I think we have enough notable software listed that the article can be kept. -- Ronz 18:21, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
I've added a linkfarm tag. I propose the Developer column be removed. That way we won't have a long list of external links which violate WP:NOT#REPOSITORY and WP:EL. -- Ronz 03:04, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
Chronology view has been added to the list of features but there is no explanation of what this is in the definition list. There needs to be a definition added for this feature.
Keith D 09:51, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
Agreed not sure what it actually refers to. Gioto 05:58, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
I have added some information about the software Family.Show bacuase it's so easy to use that even my mother can use it. The SW is for free and can be installed at http://www.vertigo.com/familyshow.aspx I think that the company has developed the SW (payed by Microsoft) to show what you can do in the programming environment Windows Presentation Foundation.
A number of genealogy programs have a beginner and advanced mode for use of the program. So should the "Easy of use 1-4" be relabeled to take this into account or just be relabled "Ease of Use" with out the number grade. Gioto ( talk) 00:01, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Gioto ( talk) 09:42, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Do we really need "Research Guidance" ? Should we look at removing easy of use? Gioto ( talk) 12:17, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
Please do not add every genealogy related application you come across. This page should only compare notable applications with an existing user base. This is not the place to announce your new product or recruit users. WP:NOTDIR -- David ( talk) 21:45, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
I'm somewhat amazed that Genbox Family History has been removed from the list. I was involved in the AfD for Genbox (and currently trying to overturn the article's deletion), but it seems a little disingenuous to first delete the article on Genbox and then remove it from the comparison article too -- even if it has the most features of any of the compared application. -- Mvuijlst ( talk) 21:21, 17 October 2008 (UTC) "Notable" is too subjective for Wikipedia. Redefining it to mean "having its own Wikipedia article" makes it non-vague (although that's a rather weird definition). Redefining it to mean "having an existing user base" leaves it just as vague and subjective as before. Exactly how many people form an "existing user base" ? Wgroleau ( talk) 17:40, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
An edit on 15:42, 29 October 2008 removed web applications from the comparison. By who and on what grounds was this decision made? Is there another article that includes a comparison of web-based apps? For instance Phpgedview has a large user-base, is well-established, and is under active development. We'd like to understand why such applications were removed. Nathanhaigh ( talk) 23:07, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
"Why don't you ask him yourself?" - what do you think this discussion is for? It is expected that he will respond here, publicly.
(If there is such an article, it does not appear in a search for "PhpGedView" --Wes Groleau —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.127.68.239 ( talk) 04:37, 4 November 2008 (UTC) )
I couldn't agree more. It's appalling when whole sections are removed at one person's whim with no proper explanation, especially when the edit is by someone who 'claims' to be an admin of this site. There is nothing in the text that indicates this article should only relate to non-web based applications. In the 21st century surely we're not still limiting ourselves in that way? At the very least that 'admin' could have moved the web applications to a new specific article for them, although I totally fail to undestand why anyone would want to split similar applications like that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.93.162.45 ( talk) 07:44, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
(One of the removed applications is the only genealogy software I use. It also was not completely removed--still appears in one reference. --Wgroleau)
What I do not understand is that an unnamed wiki adminstrator has written to the phpgedview project managers with the following
Dear author of genealogy software, please check that the information about your software in the page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_genealogy_software and in the specific Wikipedia page of your software are correct, complete and up-to-date.
On this basis I have (as the person who did the edits in the first place restored the delete that has been done.
wdm001 ( talk)4 November 2008 —Preceding undated comment was added at 13:57, 4 November 2008 (UTC).
The quote above was a direct copy from an email received by PhpGedView developers, by email, from a wikipedia email account signed 'admin' - how much proof do you need? Do you have a comment on the actual issue?
While users of PhpGedView (including me) are understandably disappointed at the removal of their favorite, their arguments seem valid to me. Hard to restore all of them without reverting other changes. When I added PhpGedView a long time ago, I also added The Next Generation and I think I may have added GenMod at the same time. But that was ages ago, and I don't relish the idea of repeating a fight with Wiki's table codes. Wgroleau ( talk) 17:40, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
I didn't remove web applications from this list because I believe they are "less" than desktop apps. I removed them because comparing a web application and a desktop application like this is a joke. It wasn't even made clear in the article which ones were web-based and which were desktop based.
BTW You really think all the editors here are "users - not developers", even the single issue editor who claimed to have knowledge of an email that was allegedly received by the developers of phpgedview? The number of single issue anonymous editors on "Comparison of ... software" articles is astounding. AlistairMcMillan ( talk) 00:06, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
I disagree that comparing the two are a 'joke' because I've been in exactly that position. When choosing which application I would settle on, I compared both client and web apps - The method of delivery was much less a concern that features and completeness. It would have been nice if there was a place to get an unbiased comparison of the more popular apps. Many of the published reviews feel a bit too commercial... yep, pay for play. David ( talk) 23:04, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
The image File:Genbox family history.png is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
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This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --21:56, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
Hi! User Gioto declared the addition of the product MacFamilyTree as spam (see history). Can someone shed some light on this? MacFamilyTree is one of the largest genealogy application on the mac with tens of thousands of users. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MendelK ( talk • contribs) 13:16, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
Before deleting my edit, please explain why my addition is considered a conflict of interest or spam? I have been a user of Ancestral Quest for several years, purchasing one of its earlier versions, and buying into each subsequent release since. I've been actively involved in genealogy for over 30 years, have used other software programs, and consider AQ one of the better ones on the market.
A few days ago I sent the people at AQ an email asking them why AQ is not included in Wikipedia's article "Comparison of Genealogy Software." A couple of days later I got a reply from Gaylon Findlay, president of AQ, that he added it, but it got removed because of a COI. So, I decided that because I'm merely a "user" of the program, and not having any COI, I should be able to add it myself. I thought that this was a wiki, and anyone could add or edit valid information!!!! Please explain. Bwayment ( talk) 19:41, 19 December 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bwayment ( talk • contribs) 19:37, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
Thank you for the explanation. I can see how you came to the conclusion that it was added by the company president, and I now understand why you deleted it. Again, thanks for discussing this. Bwayment ( talk) 06:49, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
I have created an article on Ancestral Quest. I am not associated with the company, just a long time user. I did not feel the redirect to PAF was appropriate - as it is an independant software development tool. I added a number of references outside of the ancquest.com pages, and tried to highlight historical about the product.
Jerry Barrett
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
The article relates to genealogy. Is it really part of a Genetics project? If yes, why is the blurb on the talk page instead of the article page? Wgroleau ( talk) 17:42, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
The majority of the software listed here is not notable, having no wikipedia articles for themselves. Such software should be removed from this list per WP:NOT#REPOSITORY. I think we have enough notable software listed that the article can be kept. -- Ronz 18:21, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
I've added a linkfarm tag. I propose the Developer column be removed. That way we won't have a long list of external links which violate WP:NOT#REPOSITORY and WP:EL. -- Ronz 03:04, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
Chronology view has been added to the list of features but there is no explanation of what this is in the definition list. There needs to be a definition added for this feature.
Keith D 09:51, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
Agreed not sure what it actually refers to. Gioto 05:58, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
I have added some information about the software Family.Show bacuase it's so easy to use that even my mother can use it. The SW is for free and can be installed at http://www.vertigo.com/familyshow.aspx I think that the company has developed the SW (payed by Microsoft) to show what you can do in the programming environment Windows Presentation Foundation.
A number of genealogy programs have a beginner and advanced mode for use of the program. So should the "Easy of use 1-4" be relabeled to take this into account or just be relabled "Ease of Use" with out the number grade. Gioto ( talk) 00:01, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Gioto ( talk) 09:42, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Do we really need "Research Guidance" ? Should we look at removing easy of use? Gioto ( talk) 12:17, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
Please do not add every genealogy related application you come across. This page should only compare notable applications with an existing user base. This is not the place to announce your new product or recruit users. WP:NOTDIR -- David ( talk) 21:45, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
I'm somewhat amazed that Genbox Family History has been removed from the list. I was involved in the AfD for Genbox (and currently trying to overturn the article's deletion), but it seems a little disingenuous to first delete the article on Genbox and then remove it from the comparison article too -- even if it has the most features of any of the compared application. -- Mvuijlst ( talk) 21:21, 17 October 2008 (UTC) "Notable" is too subjective for Wikipedia. Redefining it to mean "having its own Wikipedia article" makes it non-vague (although that's a rather weird definition). Redefining it to mean "having an existing user base" leaves it just as vague and subjective as before. Exactly how many people form an "existing user base" ? Wgroleau ( talk) 17:40, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
An edit on 15:42, 29 October 2008 removed web applications from the comparison. By who and on what grounds was this decision made? Is there another article that includes a comparison of web-based apps? For instance Phpgedview has a large user-base, is well-established, and is under active development. We'd like to understand why such applications were removed. Nathanhaigh ( talk) 23:07, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
"Why don't you ask him yourself?" - what do you think this discussion is for? It is expected that he will respond here, publicly.
(If there is such an article, it does not appear in a search for "PhpGedView" --Wes Groleau —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.127.68.239 ( talk) 04:37, 4 November 2008 (UTC) )
I couldn't agree more. It's appalling when whole sections are removed at one person's whim with no proper explanation, especially when the edit is by someone who 'claims' to be an admin of this site. There is nothing in the text that indicates this article should only relate to non-web based applications. In the 21st century surely we're not still limiting ourselves in that way? At the very least that 'admin' could have moved the web applications to a new specific article for them, although I totally fail to undestand why anyone would want to split similar applications like that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.93.162.45 ( talk) 07:44, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
(One of the removed applications is the only genealogy software I use. It also was not completely removed--still appears in one reference. --Wgroleau)
What I do not understand is that an unnamed wiki adminstrator has written to the phpgedview project managers with the following
Dear author of genealogy software, please check that the information about your software in the page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_genealogy_software and in the specific Wikipedia page of your software are correct, complete and up-to-date.
On this basis I have (as the person who did the edits in the first place restored the delete that has been done.
wdm001 ( talk)4 November 2008 —Preceding undated comment was added at 13:57, 4 November 2008 (UTC).
The quote above was a direct copy from an email received by PhpGedView developers, by email, from a wikipedia email account signed 'admin' - how much proof do you need? Do you have a comment on the actual issue?
While users of PhpGedView (including me) are understandably disappointed at the removal of their favorite, their arguments seem valid to me. Hard to restore all of them without reverting other changes. When I added PhpGedView a long time ago, I also added The Next Generation and I think I may have added GenMod at the same time. But that was ages ago, and I don't relish the idea of repeating a fight with Wiki's table codes. Wgroleau ( talk) 17:40, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
I didn't remove web applications from this list because I believe they are "less" than desktop apps. I removed them because comparing a web application and a desktop application like this is a joke. It wasn't even made clear in the article which ones were web-based and which were desktop based.
BTW You really think all the editors here are "users - not developers", even the single issue editor who claimed to have knowledge of an email that was allegedly received by the developers of phpgedview? The number of single issue anonymous editors on "Comparison of ... software" articles is astounding. AlistairMcMillan ( talk) 00:06, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
I disagree that comparing the two are a 'joke' because I've been in exactly that position. When choosing which application I would settle on, I compared both client and web apps - The method of delivery was much less a concern that features and completeness. It would have been nice if there was a place to get an unbiased comparison of the more popular apps. Many of the published reviews feel a bit too commercial... yep, pay for play. David ( talk) 23:04, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
The image File:Genbox family history.png is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
The following images also have this problem:
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --21:56, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
Hi! User Gioto declared the addition of the product MacFamilyTree as spam (see history). Can someone shed some light on this? MacFamilyTree is one of the largest genealogy application on the mac with tens of thousands of users. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MendelK ( talk • contribs) 13:16, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
Before deleting my edit, please explain why my addition is considered a conflict of interest or spam? I have been a user of Ancestral Quest for several years, purchasing one of its earlier versions, and buying into each subsequent release since. I've been actively involved in genealogy for over 30 years, have used other software programs, and consider AQ one of the better ones on the market.
A few days ago I sent the people at AQ an email asking them why AQ is not included in Wikipedia's article "Comparison of Genealogy Software." A couple of days later I got a reply from Gaylon Findlay, president of AQ, that he added it, but it got removed because of a COI. So, I decided that because I'm merely a "user" of the program, and not having any COI, I should be able to add it myself. I thought that this was a wiki, and anyone could add or edit valid information!!!! Please explain. Bwayment ( talk) 19:41, 19 December 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bwayment ( talk • contribs) 19:37, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
Thank you for the explanation. I can see how you came to the conclusion that it was added by the company president, and I now understand why you deleted it. Again, thanks for discussing this. Bwayment ( talk) 06:49, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
I have created an article on Ancestral Quest. I am not associated with the company, just a long time user. I did not feel the redirect to PAF was appropriate - as it is an independant software development tool. I added a number of references outside of the ancquest.com pages, and tried to highlight historical about the product.
Jerry Barrett