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😘
Older style diesel engines have an injector pump that is driven by the engine and individual injectors deliver fuel to each cylinder Bold text
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So, does anyone know if it is possible to run such an engine using uk domestic heating oil, without needing any modifications or causing other engine problems?
Regards
Gordon Brown
I think the Peugeot 908 LMP1 is something worth noting in this article. Unfortunately I don't QUITE have all the details on it and even then I'm not certain how much of it would be suitable to insert in this article. What does everyone else here think?
Dear Author,
Volkwagen TDI is not a common rail diesel. Volkwswagen will probably be starting to build common rail diesel engines from 2007. Source: volkswagen Holland. Regards, Elias
How about Mercedes' CDI? They use it in many of their diesel cars.
ACamposPinho 23:25, 16 July 2006
What is a fuel rail ?. -- Mac 11:08, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Main pipe carrying fuel.
And I believe the common rail was designed long before 1960 as there were Doxford engines were operating with common rail.
The first part of this article does not describe a common rail system as the term is used in the engine industry, but a unit injector system. A common rail system is an injection system where the fuel rail is held at injection pressure (1000 bar or higher) and the injectors do not perform any internal pressurization. A unit injector system does have a "fuel rail" but it is merely the passage that carries low pressure fuel to the injectors to be pressurized there. Calling this a common rail system to an engine designer will only lead to strange looks.
I don't know - probably no stranger than describing a gasoline direct injection (GDI) engine as running petrol... Jmdeur ( talk) 17:57, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
"""They were cam driven and injection pressure was proportional to engine speed. This typically meant that the highest injection pressure could only be achieved at the highest engine speed and the maximum achievable injection pressure decreased as engine speed decreased. This relationship is true with all pumps, even those used on common rail systems; with the unit or distributor systems, however, the injection pressure is tied to the instantaneous pressure of a single pumping event with no accumulator and thus the relationship is more prominent and troublesome."""
maybe it has a leaky pump on the common rail
Wdl1961 ( talk) 18:43, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
Suggestion to improve readability for naive entry to the article
The following text from the body of the article could be moved to the top. It would provide a reasonably satisfactory single-paragraph statement of what common rail is. (this text is from the body. I didn't make it up)
The term "common rail" refers to the fact that all of the fuel injectors are supplied by a common fuel rail which is nothing more than a pressure accumulator where the fuel is stored at high pressure. This accumulator supplies multiple fuel injectors with high-pressure fuel. This simplifies the purpose of the high-pressure pump in that it only needs to maintain a commanded pressure at a target (either mechanically or electronically controlled). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:DC0:A000:4:F120:DC44:41BD:709D ( talk) 23:10, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
Two issues I noticed with this article.
1. The article describes Fiat's selling of the technology as a tactical error before claiming Fiat "had no choice" in the matter due to its financial situation. How is it a "tactical" error if it "had" to do it? Tactics would suggest Fiat had some choice in the matter and made a mistake.
2. The article claims the technology was invented in the 1960s, but then describes a number of implementations of the technology dating to the early 1900s. One or other is false, either what was developed in the 1960s was merely an improved, modern, version of the technology, or else the earlier implementations weren't common rail systems.
I don't know enough about the subject to answer those questions and would have to delete the claims (which would be a fair chunk of the article) if I made the edits myself, therefore I think it best to comment here. -- 208.54.94.99 ( talk) 14:07, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
The list in the section "Common rail today" shows the growing and wide spread use of common rail technology. However, the list is introduced as containing brand names of car makers using common rail when there are notable markets and manufacturers outside the car market that use common rail. The section needs some updating to be inclusive of the broader application of common rail. RockyCliff ( talk) 03:52, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
So ... was common rail developed in the 1960s? Or already in use in 1942, and the 19-teens? We surely can't have it both ways can we, unless that sixties engine designer tripped over and dropped his plans into an experimental time machine in the same lab? 87.113.89.205 ( talk) 13:58, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
Since "common rail" is a type of Direct Injection, I think a better structure would be to have an article called "Direct Injection" (no such page exists currently) and "common rail" would be a heading under that. Then other forms of DI (ie non-common rail) could be included in the same article. Therefore I propose to rename this page Direct Injection and restructure so that common rail is a heading. 1292simon ( talk) 14:05, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
Should this "common rail" content be moved to a section within a broader "direct injection" article? 1292simon ( talk) 02:54, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
First picture in this article it's a Multipoint Fuel Injection... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rfguicacs ( talk • contribs) 07:33, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
Common rail (or simply COM) is a term used in electrical engineering too to define common paths of currents in a circuit. The article should reflect this or a new article should be made. -- Rev L. Snowfox ( talk) 14:33, 26 December 2013 (UTC)
Lede currently [1] reads in part On diesel engines, it features a high-pressure (over 1,000 bar or 100 MPa or 15,000 psi) fuel rail feeding individual solenoid valves, as opposed to a low-pressure fuel pump feeding unit injectors (or pump nozzles). (my emphasis)
That may be true of car engines (of which I have little experience) but it's certainly not true of small marine diesels... and I suspect of small diesels generally. The still-common arrangement here is to have a single high-pressure injector pump with a separate high-pressure line to each injector. The injectors are little more than no-return valves, having and needing no power supply or control connections (apart from the high-pressure lines themselves, which control the timing and quantity by Pascal's principle).
You can see two examples of pumps for the system I am describing at right. The top one is on a six-cylinder engine. There are six high-pressure lines leading to six "dumb" injectors. The bottom is a three-cylinder engine. These pumps are sometimes called distributor pumps (and that should not be a redlink).
That, I have always assumed, is the reason that common-rail systems are called what they are. There's a common high-pressure line, as opposed to one per cylinder in the older system. But both systems use high-pressure lines to feed the injectors. It's just a matter of how many.
I'm not doubting that some, perhaps many, pre common rail diesels used the system as described in our article. I have heard of cam-driven injectors used on older diesels, all fed by a low pressure (common) fuel line. I've just never worked on one. I suspect that large marine engines may still work this way.
My experience, pre common rail, is limited to small marine engines, and a few diesel tractors, light trucks, and buses. But it concerns me that ALL of these have used the system I described. It's still in use, was once very common, and in some applications at least it still is. As the whole reason that common rail is called what it is, it should have at least a mention in the lede.
Am I missing something? If I'm right, then our current article is highly confusing and misleading... or in layman's terms, just plain wrong. Andrewa ( talk) 19:04, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
"Fuel rail" redirects here, to Common rail, which I believe is incorrect; it also refers to the "common" fuel rail for previous, non-direct injection systems, yet this is not mentioned here at all.
I propose the article be corrected to also include older variants, because the only real difference between Common rail / Direct injection and older gasoline/petrol injection systems is in the system pressure and injection timings.
The other possibility is making the redirect to Fuel injection article, preferably creating such a section first. -- Arny ( talk) 18:43, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
According to the german page on common rail injection was the first on street usage in the 1980's was the East German IFA MN 106. This is quite a bit earlier than the 90's application by denso
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Harrstein ( talk • contribs) 21:20, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
hi hih hih hih hih hih hih
😘
Older style diesel engines have an injector pump that is driven by the engine and individual injectors deliver fuel to each cylinder Bold text
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||
|
So, does anyone know if it is possible to run such an engine using uk domestic heating oil, without needing any modifications or causing other engine problems?
Regards
Gordon Brown
I think the Peugeot 908 LMP1 is something worth noting in this article. Unfortunately I don't QUITE have all the details on it and even then I'm not certain how much of it would be suitable to insert in this article. What does everyone else here think?
Dear Author,
Volkwagen TDI is not a common rail diesel. Volkwswagen will probably be starting to build common rail diesel engines from 2007. Source: volkswagen Holland. Regards, Elias
How about Mercedes' CDI? They use it in many of their diesel cars.
ACamposPinho 23:25, 16 July 2006
What is a fuel rail ?. -- Mac 11:08, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Main pipe carrying fuel.
And I believe the common rail was designed long before 1960 as there were Doxford engines were operating with common rail.
The first part of this article does not describe a common rail system as the term is used in the engine industry, but a unit injector system. A common rail system is an injection system where the fuel rail is held at injection pressure (1000 bar or higher) and the injectors do not perform any internal pressurization. A unit injector system does have a "fuel rail" but it is merely the passage that carries low pressure fuel to the injectors to be pressurized there. Calling this a common rail system to an engine designer will only lead to strange looks.
I don't know - probably no stranger than describing a gasoline direct injection (GDI) engine as running petrol... Jmdeur ( talk) 17:57, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
"""They were cam driven and injection pressure was proportional to engine speed. This typically meant that the highest injection pressure could only be achieved at the highest engine speed and the maximum achievable injection pressure decreased as engine speed decreased. This relationship is true with all pumps, even those used on common rail systems; with the unit or distributor systems, however, the injection pressure is tied to the instantaneous pressure of a single pumping event with no accumulator and thus the relationship is more prominent and troublesome."""
maybe it has a leaky pump on the common rail
Wdl1961 ( talk) 18:43, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
Suggestion to improve readability for naive entry to the article
The following text from the body of the article could be moved to the top. It would provide a reasonably satisfactory single-paragraph statement of what common rail is. (this text is from the body. I didn't make it up)
The term "common rail" refers to the fact that all of the fuel injectors are supplied by a common fuel rail which is nothing more than a pressure accumulator where the fuel is stored at high pressure. This accumulator supplies multiple fuel injectors with high-pressure fuel. This simplifies the purpose of the high-pressure pump in that it only needs to maintain a commanded pressure at a target (either mechanically or electronically controlled). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:DC0:A000:4:F120:DC44:41BD:709D ( talk) 23:10, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
Two issues I noticed with this article.
1. The article describes Fiat's selling of the technology as a tactical error before claiming Fiat "had no choice" in the matter due to its financial situation. How is it a "tactical" error if it "had" to do it? Tactics would suggest Fiat had some choice in the matter and made a mistake.
2. The article claims the technology was invented in the 1960s, but then describes a number of implementations of the technology dating to the early 1900s. One or other is false, either what was developed in the 1960s was merely an improved, modern, version of the technology, or else the earlier implementations weren't common rail systems.
I don't know enough about the subject to answer those questions and would have to delete the claims (which would be a fair chunk of the article) if I made the edits myself, therefore I think it best to comment here. -- 208.54.94.99 ( talk) 14:07, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
The list in the section "Common rail today" shows the growing and wide spread use of common rail technology. However, the list is introduced as containing brand names of car makers using common rail when there are notable markets and manufacturers outside the car market that use common rail. The section needs some updating to be inclusive of the broader application of common rail. RockyCliff ( talk) 03:52, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
So ... was common rail developed in the 1960s? Or already in use in 1942, and the 19-teens? We surely can't have it both ways can we, unless that sixties engine designer tripped over and dropped his plans into an experimental time machine in the same lab? 87.113.89.205 ( talk) 13:58, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
Since "common rail" is a type of Direct Injection, I think a better structure would be to have an article called "Direct Injection" (no such page exists currently) and "common rail" would be a heading under that. Then other forms of DI (ie non-common rail) could be included in the same article. Therefore I propose to rename this page Direct Injection and restructure so that common rail is a heading. 1292simon ( talk) 14:05, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
Should this "common rail" content be moved to a section within a broader "direct injection" article? 1292simon ( talk) 02:54, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
First picture in this article it's a Multipoint Fuel Injection... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rfguicacs ( talk • contribs) 07:33, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
Common rail (or simply COM) is a term used in electrical engineering too to define common paths of currents in a circuit. The article should reflect this or a new article should be made. -- Rev L. Snowfox ( talk) 14:33, 26 December 2013 (UTC)
Lede currently [1] reads in part On diesel engines, it features a high-pressure (over 1,000 bar or 100 MPa or 15,000 psi) fuel rail feeding individual solenoid valves, as opposed to a low-pressure fuel pump feeding unit injectors (or pump nozzles). (my emphasis)
That may be true of car engines (of which I have little experience) but it's certainly not true of small marine diesels... and I suspect of small diesels generally. The still-common arrangement here is to have a single high-pressure injector pump with a separate high-pressure line to each injector. The injectors are little more than no-return valves, having and needing no power supply or control connections (apart from the high-pressure lines themselves, which control the timing and quantity by Pascal's principle).
You can see two examples of pumps for the system I am describing at right. The top one is on a six-cylinder engine. There are six high-pressure lines leading to six "dumb" injectors. The bottom is a three-cylinder engine. These pumps are sometimes called distributor pumps (and that should not be a redlink).
That, I have always assumed, is the reason that common-rail systems are called what they are. There's a common high-pressure line, as opposed to one per cylinder in the older system. But both systems use high-pressure lines to feed the injectors. It's just a matter of how many.
I'm not doubting that some, perhaps many, pre common rail diesels used the system as described in our article. I have heard of cam-driven injectors used on older diesels, all fed by a low pressure (common) fuel line. I've just never worked on one. I suspect that large marine engines may still work this way.
My experience, pre common rail, is limited to small marine engines, and a few diesel tractors, light trucks, and buses. But it concerns me that ALL of these have used the system I described. It's still in use, was once very common, and in some applications at least it still is. As the whole reason that common rail is called what it is, it should have at least a mention in the lede.
Am I missing something? If I'm right, then our current article is highly confusing and misleading... or in layman's terms, just plain wrong. Andrewa ( talk) 19:04, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
"Fuel rail" redirects here, to Common rail, which I believe is incorrect; it also refers to the "common" fuel rail for previous, non-direct injection systems, yet this is not mentioned here at all.
I propose the article be corrected to also include older variants, because the only real difference between Common rail / Direct injection and older gasoline/petrol injection systems is in the system pressure and injection timings.
The other possibility is making the redirect to Fuel injection article, preferably creating such a section first. -- Arny ( talk) 18:43, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
According to the german page on common rail injection was the first on street usage in the 1980's was the East German IFA MN 106. This is quite a bit earlier than the 90's application by denso
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Harrstein ( talk • contribs) 21:20, 22 December 2018 (UTC)