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[mv from my user page]
I have created the article, Combatting Cult Mind Control, bearing in mind the essay you recommended Wikipedia:Writing for the enemy. I have added a note after other articles which mention Steven Hassan, citing him as the author of this work. I only did this after I noticed that many other articles both within and without Wikipedia do so already in articles about Steven Hassan, they mention this seminal work as a sort of caveat. By the way, the book itself is referenced by over 19 other books, is a best-seller, is still in print, and is published in 7 different languages. I would hope that you would agree that the book is notable in its own right. Let me know what you think. Yours, Smeelgova 20:43, 19 October 2006 (UTC).
As it stands now, the article deserves a {{ POV}} tag, as it is hardly a neutral article. I will leave you some space and time to fix it before adding the NPOV dispute tag. ≈ jossi ≈ t • @ 20:56, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
What about the above do you not agree with? How is it that you do not think that above makes this book "highly notable" ? Thanks for engaging in the more pleasant discussion. Yours, Smeelgova 20:57, 19 October 2006 (UTC).
As it stands now this article actually deserves {{ Advert}}. ≈ jossi ≈ t • @ 20:58, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
≈ jossi ≈ t • @ 21:01, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
Yours, Smeelgova 21:08, 19 October 2006 (UTC).
My view, is that this article should be on AfD. Only really important books should have their own article. Check the page of great any of the authors in Category:American_philosophers or Category:American_novelists and show me how many of these author's books have an article in Wikipedia (none). You may be crossing the line here in attempting to list numerous anti-cult books, most of which are non-notable. Such books should be listed on their author's bio page and that is it. I will be placing this book on AfD soon. ≈ jossi ≈ t • @ 23:30, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
I have re-written the article to provide an NPOV and informative description of the book. I have removed all material that read much as advertising. I would argue also that the infobox does not add much, and would be better deleted as well. ≈ jossi ≈ t • @ 15:47, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
I would argue that citations of a book are not to be used, in particular, as these citations may not all be an imprimatur of the author that cited the book. It may well be a critique of the book, or just a mention of a specif passage to present the point of view of the author. I have removed these accordingly. ≈ jossi ≈ t • @ 00:04, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
Who is Peter Mosier? His he notable person to feature a quote of his review in this article? ≈ jossi ≈ t • @ 00:09, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
OK, will do. Yours, Smeelgova 00:33, 24 October 2006 (UTC).
I have edited the first paragraph of this section to comply with Wikipedia Guidelines: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Avoid_peacock_terms —Preceding unsigned comment added by Downstrike ( talk • contribs) 19:04, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
76.169.10.255 ( talk) 09:57, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
Araktsu ( talk) 01:59, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
Articles about books should not contain misleading claims of recommendation or misleading links. Scholars who take various positions on research issues often cite non-scholarly publications which take an opposing view. This should not be confused with a "recommendation," which would falsely imply endorsement of the opposing view.
The link claiming to be to the Church Times and suggesting that Eileen Barker "recommends" Combatting Cult Mind Control is a link to the book author Steven Hassan's site, and does not currently contain any reference to either the Church Times or Eileen Barker. Moreover, the WP article for Barker's book The_Making_of_a_Moonie indicates that she is an opponent of the mind control theory on which Combatting Cult Mind Control is based.
I have taken reasonable pains to locate a citable reference in which Eileen Barker "recommends" Combatting Cult Mind Control in a general sense, but have found none. If she has "concerns" about the book, those concerns should be discussed, rather than glossed over.
Other citations used in the article also turn out to be dead links to the author Steven Hassan's site. Please improve this article by making sure that links are to the publications cited, not to the book author's site, which may contain dead links or selective editing of the cited material. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fencingchamp ( talk • contribs) 19:18, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
Unable to
verify much of the material due to dead links. One of the two reviews is from a blog and book seems to be effectively self-published by the author's own company. Checking for more sources to see if this actually passes GNG or
WP:NBOOK
Find sources:
Google (
books ·
news ·
scholar ·
free images ·
WP refs) ·
FENS ·
JSTOR ·
TWL
Jbh
Talk 14:39, 29 December 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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The whole article, with the exception of the reception section, appears to be original research. There are a number of very detailed sections with no secondary sources whatsoever. The only occasional citation is to the book itself. Harold the Sheep ( talk) 04:05, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Combating Cult Mind Control article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
[mv from my user page]
I have created the article, Combatting Cult Mind Control, bearing in mind the essay you recommended Wikipedia:Writing for the enemy. I have added a note after other articles which mention Steven Hassan, citing him as the author of this work. I only did this after I noticed that many other articles both within and without Wikipedia do so already in articles about Steven Hassan, they mention this seminal work as a sort of caveat. By the way, the book itself is referenced by over 19 other books, is a best-seller, is still in print, and is published in 7 different languages. I would hope that you would agree that the book is notable in its own right. Let me know what you think. Yours, Smeelgova 20:43, 19 October 2006 (UTC).
As it stands now, the article deserves a {{ POV}} tag, as it is hardly a neutral article. I will leave you some space and time to fix it before adding the NPOV dispute tag. ≈ jossi ≈ t • @ 20:56, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
What about the above do you not agree with? How is it that you do not think that above makes this book "highly notable" ? Thanks for engaging in the more pleasant discussion. Yours, Smeelgova 20:57, 19 October 2006 (UTC).
As it stands now this article actually deserves {{ Advert}}. ≈ jossi ≈ t • @ 20:58, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
≈ jossi ≈ t • @ 21:01, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
Yours, Smeelgova 21:08, 19 October 2006 (UTC).
My view, is that this article should be on AfD. Only really important books should have their own article. Check the page of great any of the authors in Category:American_philosophers or Category:American_novelists and show me how many of these author's books have an article in Wikipedia (none). You may be crossing the line here in attempting to list numerous anti-cult books, most of which are non-notable. Such books should be listed on their author's bio page and that is it. I will be placing this book on AfD soon. ≈ jossi ≈ t • @ 23:30, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
I have re-written the article to provide an NPOV and informative description of the book. I have removed all material that read much as advertising. I would argue also that the infobox does not add much, and would be better deleted as well. ≈ jossi ≈ t • @ 15:47, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
I would argue that citations of a book are not to be used, in particular, as these citations may not all be an imprimatur of the author that cited the book. It may well be a critique of the book, or just a mention of a specif passage to present the point of view of the author. I have removed these accordingly. ≈ jossi ≈ t • @ 00:04, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
Who is Peter Mosier? His he notable person to feature a quote of his review in this article? ≈ jossi ≈ t • @ 00:09, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
OK, will do. Yours, Smeelgova 00:33, 24 October 2006 (UTC).
I have edited the first paragraph of this section to comply with Wikipedia Guidelines: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Avoid_peacock_terms —Preceding unsigned comment added by Downstrike ( talk • contribs) 19:04, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
76.169.10.255 ( talk) 09:57, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
Araktsu ( talk) 01:59, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
Articles about books should not contain misleading claims of recommendation or misleading links. Scholars who take various positions on research issues often cite non-scholarly publications which take an opposing view. This should not be confused with a "recommendation," which would falsely imply endorsement of the opposing view.
The link claiming to be to the Church Times and suggesting that Eileen Barker "recommends" Combatting Cult Mind Control is a link to the book author Steven Hassan's site, and does not currently contain any reference to either the Church Times or Eileen Barker. Moreover, the WP article for Barker's book The_Making_of_a_Moonie indicates that she is an opponent of the mind control theory on which Combatting Cult Mind Control is based.
I have taken reasonable pains to locate a citable reference in which Eileen Barker "recommends" Combatting Cult Mind Control in a general sense, but have found none. If she has "concerns" about the book, those concerns should be discussed, rather than glossed over.
Other citations used in the article also turn out to be dead links to the author Steven Hassan's site. Please improve this article by making sure that links are to the publications cited, not to the book author's site, which may contain dead links or selective editing of the cited material. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fencingchamp ( talk • contribs) 19:18, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
Unable to
verify much of the material due to dead links. One of the two reviews is from a blog and book seems to be effectively self-published by the author's own company. Checking for more sources to see if this actually passes GNG or
WP:NBOOK
Find sources:
Google (
books ·
news ·
scholar ·
free images ·
WP refs) ·
FENS ·
JSTOR ·
TWL
Jbh
Talk 14:39, 29 December 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Combatting Cult Mind Control. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
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RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 11:45, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Combatting Cult Mind Control. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 04:03, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
The whole article, with the exception of the reception section, appears to be original research. There are a number of very detailed sections with no secondary sources whatsoever. The only occasional citation is to the book itself. Harold the Sheep ( talk) 04:05, 13 March 2024 (UTC)