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The last paragraph has some problems:
The Collyridians have become of interest in some recent
when? — The Storm Surfer 04:39, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
Muslim-Christian religious discussions in reference to the Islamic concept of the Christian Trinity.
what discussions? — The Storm Surfer 04:39, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
The debate hinges on some verses in the Qur'an, primarily 5:73, 5:75, and 5:116 in the sura Al-Ma'ida, which have been taken to imply that Christians considered Mary part of the Trinity.
taken by whom? — The Storm Surfer 04:39, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
This has never been a mainstream or widespread doctrine among Christian or quasi-Christian groups at any period of history,
This is a claim that is at the same time very bold and very vague. What are the specific criteria for being mainstream or widespread? What qualifies a group as Christian or quasi-Christian?? — The Storm Surfer 04:39, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
and has led to speculation that Muhammad was mistaken, perhaps confusing heretical Collyridian beliefs with those of orthodox Christianity.
Who is speculating this? Who is defining heresy and orthodoxy here? — The Storm Surfer 04:39, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
However, there is no evidence that Collyridianism still existed in the 6th or 7th centuries A.D. (Muhammad's time).
OK, the reference dates the movement as 350–450, which might be enough to back up this claim.
Some reject the interpretation according to which the Qur'an is said to assert that Mary was part of the Trinity, as the relevant statements can be seen as emphasizing the purely human nature of Mary to reinforce the Islamic belief in the purely human nature of Jesus.
Who are these rejectors? — The Storm Surfer 04:39, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
And even if all that can be resolved, I'm not sure how relevant the whole thing really is. — The Storm Surfer 04:39, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
The Collyridians have been noted in this article for offering cakes to Mary. This ancient practice most likely has its roots in the cult of Ishtar. Ishtar was known as the Queen of heaven and was highly revered by the Babylonians. The offering of cakes as a form of devotion to her was common practice and this may have found its way into to some early sects of Christianity due to the similarities between Mary and Ishtar such as their divine relationship with the Godhead. Today this practice of devotion can still be seen in the Christian tradition of eating,'Hot Cross Buns' during the Easter(Ishtar)festival. Please read the 'Myths of Tammuz and Ishtar' for further reference. A reliable book for this information is called, 'Myths of Babylonia and Assyria', by Donald A. MacKenzie, [1915]. Jch777 ( talk) 22:58, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
Since our only knowledge of this heresy is from the Panarion, it would be nice to know what heresy number is ascribed to this cult. While on the topic of primary references, it would also be nice to know what verses of the Septuagint mention the relevant collyrides. Rwflammang ( talk) 14:09, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
This looks like original research?
Sorry. If someone can provide WP:RS some of it can go back in the article. In ictu oculi ( talk) 14:14, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
No courtesy of a reply after three days, and the original action seems to have been largely a misconception based on not looking at the Islamic view of the Trinity article, therefore restoring. There are references given at Islamic view of the Trinity, but I would not feel comfortable mechanically copying over citations based on a source I haven't personally seen from one article to the other. I may go to the local university library and see if the Encyclopaedia of Islam has anything... AnonMoos ( talk) 07:17, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
He don't understand the expression "word of God", don't understand the Jewish doctrine, and don't understand the Christian concept of trinity. I don't understand why a lot of muslims follow him. How can he criticize doctrines he didn't understand or deform. -- 13:07, 21 November 2014 2a01:e35:8a8d:fe80:d07e:bfd5:2ecf:6ab0
George Sale in the preliminary discourse to his translation of The Koran says:
But, to be more particular as to the nation we are now writing of, Arabia was of old famous for heresies; which might be in some measure attributed to the liberty and independency of the tribes. Some of the Christians of that nation believed the soul died with the body, and was to be raised again with it at the last day: these Origen is said to have convinced. Among the Arabs it was that the heresies of Ebion, Beryllus, and the Nazareans, and also that of the Collyridians, were broached, or at least propagated; the latter introduced the Virgin Mary for God, or worshipped her as such offering her a sort of twisted cake called collyris, This notion of the divinity of the Virgin Mary was also believed by some at the Council of Nice, who said there were two gods besides the Father viz. Christ and the virgin Mary, and were thence named Mariamites. Others imagined her to be exempt from humanity, and deified; which goes but little beyond the popish superstition in calling her the complement of the Trinity, as if it were imperfect without her. This foolish imagination is justly condemned in the Koran as idolatrous, and gave a handle to Mohammed to attack the Trinity itself.
Arab sources indicate that Arabs knew Jesus and Mary and knew that there was a Christian sect that worshiped them, in books on the interpretation of verses of the Qur'an there are Many Hadiths indicate when the Prophet Mohammed was in Mecca before the migration to Medina and when the verse Quran 21:98 was revealed . which says in abbreviation that the polytheists and the inanimate objects that you worship will be the fuel for Hell. This verse caused some men of Quraish tribe to object it and the objection was that the Jews worship Uzair and that the Christians worship Jesus and Mary and that they are worship the angels (Some of them said that the Banu Malih worship angels and Banu Malih is a large family in Quraish) and all of these people are righteous. Are they also? In hell ,to be the Prophet Muhammad's response that the verse said (m+a+) Which is used for inanimate objects..
The Rakusiyya (الركوسية) sect is an Arab Christian sect that shares the belief with Sabellianism sect that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are one person,about Mary they believe that when Allah united with Mary when she conceived her with the Word, Mary also became godThe sect later became extinct because the number of followers of the Kanu sect was very small and because they converted to Islam.
The University of Dayton announced on its website the emergence of a new heresy called Mary-is-God-Catholic-Movement who believed that Mary is god Hzea ( talk) 08:49, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
I'm sure that you're very well intentioned, but as I previously pointed out, George Sale died in 1736, so it's hard to say that he's authoritative now (and his anti-Catholic remarks don't add anything useful). Some of your other subsections referenced websites of apparently dubious reliability; you've left those out above, but that means the subsections are now unreferenced. If the University of Dayton Goddess movement enthusiasts don't call themselves Collyridians, or mention Collyridians, then it might be "Original Synthesis" on our part to make such a connnection. Etc etc... AnonMoos ( talk) 05:39, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
I see that the page on the worship of Mary is good subject of an article, Because there is a relationship in the history of the doctrine of this sect Hzea ( talk) 08:56, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
What does that have to do with worship of Mary? Also, the English is poor. AnonMoos ( talk) 19:57, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
I'm sorry / not sorry, but while you seem to be passionate about the subject, your additions are in poor English, and either don't have acceptable sources, or have a very unclear connection to Collyridianism. What the heck does Nestorianism have to do with Collyridianism? And the fasting thing doesn't make much sense, at least in the way that you've presented it here. AnonMoos ( talk) 21:46, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | It is requested that an image or photograph of Collyridianism be
included in this article to
improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific
media request template where possible.
The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites. |
The last paragraph has some problems:
The Collyridians have become of interest in some recent
when? — The Storm Surfer 04:39, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
Muslim-Christian religious discussions in reference to the Islamic concept of the Christian Trinity.
what discussions? — The Storm Surfer 04:39, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
The debate hinges on some verses in the Qur'an, primarily 5:73, 5:75, and 5:116 in the sura Al-Ma'ida, which have been taken to imply that Christians considered Mary part of the Trinity.
taken by whom? — The Storm Surfer 04:39, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
This has never been a mainstream or widespread doctrine among Christian or quasi-Christian groups at any period of history,
This is a claim that is at the same time very bold and very vague. What are the specific criteria for being mainstream or widespread? What qualifies a group as Christian or quasi-Christian?? — The Storm Surfer 04:39, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
and has led to speculation that Muhammad was mistaken, perhaps confusing heretical Collyridian beliefs with those of orthodox Christianity.
Who is speculating this? Who is defining heresy and orthodoxy here? — The Storm Surfer 04:39, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
However, there is no evidence that Collyridianism still existed in the 6th or 7th centuries A.D. (Muhammad's time).
OK, the reference dates the movement as 350–450, which might be enough to back up this claim.
Some reject the interpretation according to which the Qur'an is said to assert that Mary was part of the Trinity, as the relevant statements can be seen as emphasizing the purely human nature of Mary to reinforce the Islamic belief in the purely human nature of Jesus.
Who are these rejectors? — The Storm Surfer 04:39, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
And even if all that can be resolved, I'm not sure how relevant the whole thing really is. — The Storm Surfer 04:39, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
The Collyridians have been noted in this article for offering cakes to Mary. This ancient practice most likely has its roots in the cult of Ishtar. Ishtar was known as the Queen of heaven and was highly revered by the Babylonians. The offering of cakes as a form of devotion to her was common practice and this may have found its way into to some early sects of Christianity due to the similarities between Mary and Ishtar such as their divine relationship with the Godhead. Today this practice of devotion can still be seen in the Christian tradition of eating,'Hot Cross Buns' during the Easter(Ishtar)festival. Please read the 'Myths of Tammuz and Ishtar' for further reference. A reliable book for this information is called, 'Myths of Babylonia and Assyria', by Donald A. MacKenzie, [1915]. Jch777 ( talk) 22:58, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
Since our only knowledge of this heresy is from the Panarion, it would be nice to know what heresy number is ascribed to this cult. While on the topic of primary references, it would also be nice to know what verses of the Septuagint mention the relevant collyrides. Rwflammang ( talk) 14:09, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
This looks like original research?
Sorry. If someone can provide WP:RS some of it can go back in the article. In ictu oculi ( talk) 14:14, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
No courtesy of a reply after three days, and the original action seems to have been largely a misconception based on not looking at the Islamic view of the Trinity article, therefore restoring. There are references given at Islamic view of the Trinity, but I would not feel comfortable mechanically copying over citations based on a source I haven't personally seen from one article to the other. I may go to the local university library and see if the Encyclopaedia of Islam has anything... AnonMoos ( talk) 07:17, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
He don't understand the expression "word of God", don't understand the Jewish doctrine, and don't understand the Christian concept of trinity. I don't understand why a lot of muslims follow him. How can he criticize doctrines he didn't understand or deform. -- 13:07, 21 November 2014 2a01:e35:8a8d:fe80:d07e:bfd5:2ecf:6ab0
George Sale in the preliminary discourse to his translation of The Koran says:
But, to be more particular as to the nation we are now writing of, Arabia was of old famous for heresies; which might be in some measure attributed to the liberty and independency of the tribes. Some of the Christians of that nation believed the soul died with the body, and was to be raised again with it at the last day: these Origen is said to have convinced. Among the Arabs it was that the heresies of Ebion, Beryllus, and the Nazareans, and also that of the Collyridians, were broached, or at least propagated; the latter introduced the Virgin Mary for God, or worshipped her as such offering her a sort of twisted cake called collyris, This notion of the divinity of the Virgin Mary was also believed by some at the Council of Nice, who said there were two gods besides the Father viz. Christ and the virgin Mary, and were thence named Mariamites. Others imagined her to be exempt from humanity, and deified; which goes but little beyond the popish superstition in calling her the complement of the Trinity, as if it were imperfect without her. This foolish imagination is justly condemned in the Koran as idolatrous, and gave a handle to Mohammed to attack the Trinity itself.
Arab sources indicate that Arabs knew Jesus and Mary and knew that there was a Christian sect that worshiped them, in books on the interpretation of verses of the Qur'an there are Many Hadiths indicate when the Prophet Mohammed was in Mecca before the migration to Medina and when the verse Quran 21:98 was revealed . which says in abbreviation that the polytheists and the inanimate objects that you worship will be the fuel for Hell. This verse caused some men of Quraish tribe to object it and the objection was that the Jews worship Uzair and that the Christians worship Jesus and Mary and that they are worship the angels (Some of them said that the Banu Malih worship angels and Banu Malih is a large family in Quraish) and all of these people are righteous. Are they also? In hell ,to be the Prophet Muhammad's response that the verse said (m+a+) Which is used for inanimate objects..
The Rakusiyya (الركوسية) sect is an Arab Christian sect that shares the belief with Sabellianism sect that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are one person,about Mary they believe that when Allah united with Mary when she conceived her with the Word, Mary also became godThe sect later became extinct because the number of followers of the Kanu sect was very small and because they converted to Islam.
The University of Dayton announced on its website the emergence of a new heresy called Mary-is-God-Catholic-Movement who believed that Mary is god Hzea ( talk) 08:49, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
I'm sure that you're very well intentioned, but as I previously pointed out, George Sale died in 1736, so it's hard to say that he's authoritative now (and his anti-Catholic remarks don't add anything useful). Some of your other subsections referenced websites of apparently dubious reliability; you've left those out above, but that means the subsections are now unreferenced. If the University of Dayton Goddess movement enthusiasts don't call themselves Collyridians, or mention Collyridians, then it might be "Original Synthesis" on our part to make such a connnection. Etc etc... AnonMoos ( talk) 05:39, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
I see that the page on the worship of Mary is good subject of an article, Because there is a relationship in the history of the doctrine of this sect Hzea ( talk) 08:56, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
What does that have to do with worship of Mary? Also, the English is poor. AnonMoos ( talk) 19:57, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
I'm sorry / not sorry, but while you seem to be passionate about the subject, your additions are in poor English, and either don't have acceptable sources, or have a very unclear connection to Collyridianism. What the heck does Nestorianism have to do with Collyridianism? And the fasting thing doesn't make much sense, at least in the way that you've presented it here. AnonMoos ( talk) 21:46, 13 May 2024 (UTC)