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I think this is a fascinating article, featured article material. - Added by 68.77.162.199 on 17 Mar 2005
Not to make mountains out of molehills here but is the part about Göring's title in the intro blob even relevant? It seems like a complete tangent to the rest of the information there. I could understand the rank showing some kind of maybe authority when he said what he said, but he was in charge of Luftwaffe operations.
Needs more:
Still to add:
Needed to fix:
![]() |
At the moment, Pat Reid's books are described as novels. This suggests that they were works of fiction with perhaps composite characters and the distortion of factual events. Is this the case or are we actually talking about a memoir? Jooler 12:54, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)
The word Sonderlager does not mean "high-security prison", at least not literally. A more literal translation would be "Special Camp", or somesuch. Anyone have an idea why it says "high-security prison" in its translation? — Gabbe 08:10, Apr 16, 2005 (UTC)
Not to nitpick, but "deutschfeindlich" is an adjective in German, so "Anti-Germans" is a wrong translation. Besides, from the view of a native speaker, it just doesn't "sound right". Alternatives would be "deutschlandfeindlich", which would mean something like "enemy of the state", or "volksfeindlich", which was used heavily in Nazi propaganda and can be translated as "treasonous against the people". That would also be corresponding to the national socialist ideal of the "Volk", the people as a group, as opposed to the individual. But again, that's just nitpicking from the native speakers ;)
The Parker Bros. game I have had since I was a kid (devised by Pat Reid) has the following playing pieces:
Although not in the escapee list, were any US prisoners held there at any time, or was it simply an understandable marketing ploy of the game's manufacturer? Dainamo 11:15, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
1) Colonel Florimond Duke [at Colditz 23 Ag 1944 till liberation]
2) Lt. J. Le Forsonney [at Colditz 4-21 Ag 1944]
3) Captain G.T. Nunn [at Colditz 23 Ag 1944 till liberation]
4) Major K. Sabadosh [at Colditz 23 Ag 1944 till liberation]
5) Lt/Col W.H. Schaeffer [at Colditz 06 Dc 1944 till liberation]
6) 1/Lt M.C. Shannon [at Colditz 14 Mr 1945 till liberation]
7) Captain A.M. Suarez [at Colditz 23 Ag 1944 till liberation]
8) Lt. J.G. Winant [at Colditz 07 Ap 1945-13 Ap 1945]. A 'Promeninten'
Source: P.R. Reid, Colditz: The Full Story, p. 325. DonBruce 16:38, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
The article uses the terms liberation, liberated, etc. several times. Given that Dresden was always a German city, wouldn't capture, captured, etc. be more appropriate?
NB. I'd retain it in cases such as liberating the prison though.
Crebbin 17:40, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC).
d
excellently done. simple, easy to read and space-efficient. and borders only when needed to divide data. 69.241.225.95 23:14, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
... were at their peak when he lived there for two years about a quarter-century ago, so take for what it is worth. Isn't "Field Marshall of the Empire" somewhat off as a translation for Reichsmarschall? Reich may not be exactly the same thing as "state" (certainly not in the U.S. sense, where Land would be the closest to that perhaps, but in the more general sense of worldwide English usage still not an exact equivalent), but would be closer to that than it would "Empire". I never thought of the Third Reich as being exactly the "Third Empire". Any comments? Rlquall 01:42, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
In 1939, he became the first Luftwaffe Field Marshall (Generalfeldmarshal) and by a decree on June 29, 1941, Hitler appointed Göring his formal successor and promoted him to the rank of Reichsmarshall, the highest military rank of the Greater German Reich. Reichsmarshall was a special rank intended for Göring and which made him senior to all Army and Air Force Field Marshals.
Other than that 1 reported death, was there any other deaths in the castle?
1) An older UK POW officer died of a heart attack in 1943?
2) Michael Sinclair was shot while trying to escape on 25 September 1944. Source: P.R. Reid, Colditz: The Full Story, pp. 243-246, 309.
3) and 4) Two Germans committed suicide in the POW part of the castle. Source: Michael Booker, Collecting Colditz, pp. 31-32. DonBruce 16:37, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
Michael Sinclair was the only POW to have been shot and killed there (according to the tour guide). He was buried with full military honours in Berlin (?)
At least one German was shot by firing squad during WWII Lowgoz ( talk) 13:03, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
This table is huge, perhaps someone has a better way we can work this in?
ALKIVAR
™
13:10, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
Name | Role | Period of service |
---|---|---|
Brossac, ? | Civilian, Medic | 1942 |
Denzler, Rudolf E. | Civilian, Swiss POW Camp Inspector | ? |
Eggers, ? | Civilian, Wife of Captain Reinhold Eggers | 1940-1945 |
Hanschmann, Elsa | Civilian, Wife of Corporal Georg Martin Schädlich | 1940 |
Kindler, ? | Civilian, Butcher | 1943 |
Michael, ? | Civilian, Dentist | 1941-1942 |
Mutschmann, Martin | Nazi Gau of Leipzig district | 16 Ja 1943 |
Naumann, ? | Nazi Kreisleiter of the Colditz region | ? |
Pöhnert, Willie | Civilian, Electrician | 1939-1945 |
Pravitt, Elizabeth | Civilian, Wife of Kommandant Lt. Colonel Gerhard Prawitt | ? |
Reinert, ? | Civilian, Apprentice to Willie Pöhnert | 1941 |
Schädlich, Erhard | Civilian, Son of Georg Martin Schâdlich | ? |
Schädlich, Thomas | Civilian, Grandson of Georg Martin Schâdlich | ? |
'Slim', ? | Civilian, Carpenter | ? |
Starke, ? | Nazi Ortgruppenleiter of Colditz town | ? |
Wernicke, Irmgard | Civilian, Daugter of Nazi leader (spied for the POWs) | 1943-1945 |
Wernicke, ? | Nazi leader | 1943-1945 |
The article as it is currently is in blatant violation of several wikipedia policies, including WP:SP and WP:NPOV. First, the subsections need to changed from slash titles to proper titles, as that form is deprecated (and has been since before they were created). Second, a "suggested reading" list is inappropriate, as it is not wikipedia's place to suggest things or make recommendations, so it should be moved to "List of books about Colditz Castle" or something similarly neutral. Third, the references section is a mess, and could use a good cleanup. The text seems fine, but we shouldn't have blatant, easily correctible violations of basic wikipedia standards in a featured article. I'd just go and fix it, but last time I tried, my changes were reverted without comment. Night Gyr 08:24, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
This is an excellent article in every respect, but it's a bit obscure for the (very small) 0.5 version. I've moved the listing to the held nominations page, where it will be considered for inclusion in one of the later releases. Kirill Lokshin 02:29, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
This article is growing to the point where it is becoming a daunting read. The part of the article that describes the different escape attempts is self-contained. I suggest that this part of the article be moved to an article of its own titled "Colditz Castle escape attempts". Cowpriest2 21:43, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
Within Category:World War II POW camps there is a growing body of articles about Oflags and Stalags. I propose to split this excellent article into its two logical parts:
possibly there should be a third article about the excape attempts as suggested above.
Syrenab 02:15, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
If this change is approved then the present article Colditz Castle may be deleted and the bew article Oflag 4c moved to the correct name "Oflag IV-C"
I believe that this is the best solution. It fits in with the present organization of Wikipedia for all other Oflags and Stalags, and articles about places.
Syrenab 16:01, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
Syrenab 14:52, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
This section below is contradictory. Does anyone know which bit is correct?
"Pat Reid claims in Colditz: The Full Story that there were 31 "home runs". It should be noted that he includes prisoners from the hospital and prisoners being transported, who were not directly under Colditz staff control. Henry Chancellor in Colditz: The Definitive History claims 32 escaped but only 15 were "home runs": 1 Belgian, 11 British, 7 Dutch, 12 French and 1 Polish. The difference is that Reid claims any successful escape by an "official" Colditz POW a "home run" where most other historians only consider escapes from the castle or castle grounds itself as a "home run". Also a subject of debate is whether or not Millar's escape should be considered a "home run", but since he is listed MIA (unofficially he is assumed deceased), Chancellor does not count him as such."
-*- u: Chazz/ contact/t: 22:23, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
There is a reference to the SS in the first paragraph. However, I read the Reid book and he indicates the camp was run by the Wehrmacht. Is this a contradiction or is there other historical data on this?-- Silverscreen 17:21, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
This mistake has been corrected before and then reverted. You are correct - All Oflags were run by the Wehrmacht, not the SS Syrenab 18:25, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
I have just started up WikiProject Colditz to cover articles regarding Colditz Castle and, in particular, it's role as a Prisoner of War camp in WWII. This project aims to cover the castle and all the notable prisoners, such as Michael Sinclair and Pat Reid, who were imprisoned there. Feel free to check it out and if you want to help out, I will be most grateful! -- Qarnos 09:34, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Good luck! I spent a lot of time trying to clean up the Colditz Castle/Oflag IV-C in October 2006. Everything I did was reverted by those who believe it to be just fine the way it is! -- Syrenab 19:23, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
Qarnos, I will gladly work with you on this project. For the last several months I hve been compiling articles on Oflags and Stalags, and trying to improve existing ones. The Colditz Castle/Oflag IV-C article in the present form might be a good magazine article, but is contrary, in my opinion, to all requirements for an encyclopedic article - is too long and I believe should be broken into at least three elements :
Syrenab 16:55, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
I support the split because this article is too long and covers three clearly distinct subjects, as you point out. Here is how I imagine the three articles:
1) "Colditz Castle", containing:
2) "Oflag IV-C", containing:
3) "Oflag IV-C escape attempts", containing:
I would also change the title of the "Colditz Castle in popular culture" article to "Oflag IV-C in popular culture", because that's what that article really is about.
I don't intend to do any of this myself, just my 2 cents. Cowpriest2 07:46, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the input, Cowpriest2. Your split suggestions I think are just what is needed.
I offer to do the work, but only if there is general agreement. I alredy spent many hours on this subject and all my efforts were reverted.
Syrenab 13:26, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
I've notified the WWII task force guys. Hopefully we'll see what their take is on this. Cowpriest2 20:03, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
Ok Syrenab, I believe you can go ahead with the changes. No one has any objections, and Kirill Lokshin thinks it's a decent idea. Cowpriest2 03:22, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
I will gladly proceed. But first, I would like Qarnos and Kirill Lokshin to clarify how to carry out the work within WikiProject Colditz in view of the previous arguments against splitting the article and the opposition of ALKEVAR. Syrenab 16:35, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
I left a message on User:Alkivar's page ( User_talk:Alkivar#Colditz_castle). However, he's on an indefinite wikibreak, so I'm not sure we should wait for his opinion. As for the previous arguments against splitting, can you tell me what they are? The split was opposed during the FAR, but from what I understand it was mostly because it was still a featured article at the time. Cowpriest2 07:20, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Oh, I see what you mean. Well, Lokshin seems to have changed his mind, and the article is no longer featured. But I understand why you hesitate. If only we could get alkivar's approval, that would simplify things. Cowpriest2 07:30, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
ALKIVAR forgets that Wikipedia is supposed to be an encyclopedia, not a literary magazine. He seems to think that the dozens of entries in the various language Wikipedias for various castles are pointless, because in most of them not very much happened during the last few hundred years. I suppose he also considers the many entries that I and others have written for Oflags and Stalags are pointless, because most have no great stories of escapes.
Enough said, the plan is to split the article into 3 logical entries:
Syrenab 14:44, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
The preliminary part of the project has been done. The original article "Colditz Castle" has been broken ouit into three sections:
Each of these articles needs additional refinement, of course. Go to it!
Syrenab 13:13, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
I made a few corrections, but indeed, there is still some refinement to do. Colditz Castle/Suggested reading page is kind of weird. Should Wikipedia really keep track of every book where the castle is just mentioned? Maybe we should distribute the references where they belong and delete Colditz Castle/Suggested reading. Also, the references section from the original Colditz Castle article must be redistributed.
I like using the expression "escape attempts" instead of "escapes". Note that this works both for successful and unsuccessful attempts. You can say "successful escape attempts" and "unsuccessful escape attempts". No big deal though. What do you think?
There is some work to do with the titles. I guess we should come up with a convention. Right now we have:
One way would be:
Cowpriest2 06:34, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
Well in fact, Colditz Castle in popular culture is not that long, so we could just merge it with Oflag IV-C. Cowpriest2 07:13, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
Your suggestions are good. I will work on it, as soon as I complete my present project ( Armia Warszawa, English and Polish versions). However I will be away (sailing!) for 10 days starting 29 March, and may not be able to get to it until early April. If you have time to do some rearranging, go ahead. Syrenab 11:31, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
Hi, I noticed several articles relating to Colditz castle and so have created a template to bring them together. At present it only includes the main articles e.g. castle, list of staff, escape attempts etc. However feel free to expand the template to include key people or other similar/related articles. LordHarris 06:26, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
A very good idea! I have added the new articles to the template, and added the template to the new articles. Syrenab 14:11, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
User:Jimdebrichards added the following comment to the article which I have removed and placed here until we work out how the information can be added in an encyclopaedic way:
"(Change info on radio room in Colditz Castle during WW2. French Lieut. Frederic Guigues first set up radio room in Colditz in 1942. + Reference book by Reinhold Eggers (former Commandant), "Colditz Recaptured". 1973. Pg 45"
-- Bermicourt ( talk) 19:32, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
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The article currently describes in words many changes to the building over the centuries. These are pretty vague/confusing. Relevant illustrations (drawings/photos) would be helpful.- 73.61.15.226 ( talk) 14:30, 11 November 2017 (UTC)
Yesterday I reverted these edits: [18], which were made in March by an obvious IP sockpuppet, in evasion of a block, see: Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1010#Countless empty "History" sections, plus copyright violations, etc. - I have been going through their edit histories and doing cleanup.
The edits to this article added an extra level of subheaders, creating a "History" section and moving three of the four existing main sections under it. My revert was undone today by Blackshod: [19], with the explanation "does seem to be a better structure". I'd like to suggest reverting again back to the version of the structure prior to the sockpuppetry, for the following reasons:
I hope that makes sense... -- IamNotU ( talk) 16:07, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
American war correspondent Lee Carson was assigned to the task force that liberated the Castle on April 16, 1945. It was then she took the only photograph of the "cock" glider in the attic. I have updated this information to now read correctly with sources and image. Thanks you. Maineartists ( talk) 14:59, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
![]() | Colditz Castle is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed. | ||||||||||||
![]() | This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on April 16, 2005. | ||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||
Current status: Former featured article |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I think this is a fascinating article, featured article material. - Added by 68.77.162.199 on 17 Mar 2005
Not to make mountains out of molehills here but is the part about Göring's title in the intro blob even relevant? It seems like a complete tangent to the rest of the information there. I could understand the rank showing some kind of maybe authority when he said what he said, but he was in charge of Luftwaffe operations.
Needs more:
Still to add:
Needed to fix:
![]() |
At the moment, Pat Reid's books are described as novels. This suggests that they were works of fiction with perhaps composite characters and the distortion of factual events. Is this the case or are we actually talking about a memoir? Jooler 12:54, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)
The word Sonderlager does not mean "high-security prison", at least not literally. A more literal translation would be "Special Camp", or somesuch. Anyone have an idea why it says "high-security prison" in its translation? — Gabbe 08:10, Apr 16, 2005 (UTC)
Not to nitpick, but "deutschfeindlich" is an adjective in German, so "Anti-Germans" is a wrong translation. Besides, from the view of a native speaker, it just doesn't "sound right". Alternatives would be "deutschlandfeindlich", which would mean something like "enemy of the state", or "volksfeindlich", which was used heavily in Nazi propaganda and can be translated as "treasonous against the people". That would also be corresponding to the national socialist ideal of the "Volk", the people as a group, as opposed to the individual. But again, that's just nitpicking from the native speakers ;)
The Parker Bros. game I have had since I was a kid (devised by Pat Reid) has the following playing pieces:
Although not in the escapee list, were any US prisoners held there at any time, or was it simply an understandable marketing ploy of the game's manufacturer? Dainamo 11:15, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
1) Colonel Florimond Duke [at Colditz 23 Ag 1944 till liberation]
2) Lt. J. Le Forsonney [at Colditz 4-21 Ag 1944]
3) Captain G.T. Nunn [at Colditz 23 Ag 1944 till liberation]
4) Major K. Sabadosh [at Colditz 23 Ag 1944 till liberation]
5) Lt/Col W.H. Schaeffer [at Colditz 06 Dc 1944 till liberation]
6) 1/Lt M.C. Shannon [at Colditz 14 Mr 1945 till liberation]
7) Captain A.M. Suarez [at Colditz 23 Ag 1944 till liberation]
8) Lt. J.G. Winant [at Colditz 07 Ap 1945-13 Ap 1945]. A 'Promeninten'
Source: P.R. Reid, Colditz: The Full Story, p. 325. DonBruce 16:38, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
The article uses the terms liberation, liberated, etc. several times. Given that Dresden was always a German city, wouldn't capture, captured, etc. be more appropriate?
NB. I'd retain it in cases such as liberating the prison though.
Crebbin 17:40, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC).
d
excellently done. simple, easy to read and space-efficient. and borders only when needed to divide data. 69.241.225.95 23:14, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
... were at their peak when he lived there for two years about a quarter-century ago, so take for what it is worth. Isn't "Field Marshall of the Empire" somewhat off as a translation for Reichsmarschall? Reich may not be exactly the same thing as "state" (certainly not in the U.S. sense, where Land would be the closest to that perhaps, but in the more general sense of worldwide English usage still not an exact equivalent), but would be closer to that than it would "Empire". I never thought of the Third Reich as being exactly the "Third Empire". Any comments? Rlquall 01:42, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
In 1939, he became the first Luftwaffe Field Marshall (Generalfeldmarshal) and by a decree on June 29, 1941, Hitler appointed Göring his formal successor and promoted him to the rank of Reichsmarshall, the highest military rank of the Greater German Reich. Reichsmarshall was a special rank intended for Göring and which made him senior to all Army and Air Force Field Marshals.
Other than that 1 reported death, was there any other deaths in the castle?
1) An older UK POW officer died of a heart attack in 1943?
2) Michael Sinclair was shot while trying to escape on 25 September 1944. Source: P.R. Reid, Colditz: The Full Story, pp. 243-246, 309.
3) and 4) Two Germans committed suicide in the POW part of the castle. Source: Michael Booker, Collecting Colditz, pp. 31-32. DonBruce 16:37, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
Michael Sinclair was the only POW to have been shot and killed there (according to the tour guide). He was buried with full military honours in Berlin (?)
At least one German was shot by firing squad during WWII Lowgoz ( talk) 13:03, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
This table is huge, perhaps someone has a better way we can work this in?
ALKIVAR
™
13:10, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
Name | Role | Period of service |
---|---|---|
Brossac, ? | Civilian, Medic | 1942 |
Denzler, Rudolf E. | Civilian, Swiss POW Camp Inspector | ? |
Eggers, ? | Civilian, Wife of Captain Reinhold Eggers | 1940-1945 |
Hanschmann, Elsa | Civilian, Wife of Corporal Georg Martin Schädlich | 1940 |
Kindler, ? | Civilian, Butcher | 1943 |
Michael, ? | Civilian, Dentist | 1941-1942 |
Mutschmann, Martin | Nazi Gau of Leipzig district | 16 Ja 1943 |
Naumann, ? | Nazi Kreisleiter of the Colditz region | ? |
Pöhnert, Willie | Civilian, Electrician | 1939-1945 |
Pravitt, Elizabeth | Civilian, Wife of Kommandant Lt. Colonel Gerhard Prawitt | ? |
Reinert, ? | Civilian, Apprentice to Willie Pöhnert | 1941 |
Schädlich, Erhard | Civilian, Son of Georg Martin Schâdlich | ? |
Schädlich, Thomas | Civilian, Grandson of Georg Martin Schâdlich | ? |
'Slim', ? | Civilian, Carpenter | ? |
Starke, ? | Nazi Ortgruppenleiter of Colditz town | ? |
Wernicke, Irmgard | Civilian, Daugter of Nazi leader (spied for the POWs) | 1943-1945 |
Wernicke, ? | Nazi leader | 1943-1945 |
The article as it is currently is in blatant violation of several wikipedia policies, including WP:SP and WP:NPOV. First, the subsections need to changed from slash titles to proper titles, as that form is deprecated (and has been since before they were created). Second, a "suggested reading" list is inappropriate, as it is not wikipedia's place to suggest things or make recommendations, so it should be moved to "List of books about Colditz Castle" or something similarly neutral. Third, the references section is a mess, and could use a good cleanup. The text seems fine, but we shouldn't have blatant, easily correctible violations of basic wikipedia standards in a featured article. I'd just go and fix it, but last time I tried, my changes were reverted without comment. Night Gyr 08:24, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
This is an excellent article in every respect, but it's a bit obscure for the (very small) 0.5 version. I've moved the listing to the held nominations page, where it will be considered for inclusion in one of the later releases. Kirill Lokshin 02:29, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
This article is growing to the point where it is becoming a daunting read. The part of the article that describes the different escape attempts is self-contained. I suggest that this part of the article be moved to an article of its own titled "Colditz Castle escape attempts". Cowpriest2 21:43, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
Within Category:World War II POW camps there is a growing body of articles about Oflags and Stalags. I propose to split this excellent article into its two logical parts:
possibly there should be a third article about the excape attempts as suggested above.
Syrenab 02:15, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
If this change is approved then the present article Colditz Castle may be deleted and the bew article Oflag 4c moved to the correct name "Oflag IV-C"
I believe that this is the best solution. It fits in with the present organization of Wikipedia for all other Oflags and Stalags, and articles about places.
Syrenab 16:01, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
Syrenab 14:52, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
This section below is contradictory. Does anyone know which bit is correct?
"Pat Reid claims in Colditz: The Full Story that there were 31 "home runs". It should be noted that he includes prisoners from the hospital and prisoners being transported, who were not directly under Colditz staff control. Henry Chancellor in Colditz: The Definitive History claims 32 escaped but only 15 were "home runs": 1 Belgian, 11 British, 7 Dutch, 12 French and 1 Polish. The difference is that Reid claims any successful escape by an "official" Colditz POW a "home run" where most other historians only consider escapes from the castle or castle grounds itself as a "home run". Also a subject of debate is whether or not Millar's escape should be considered a "home run", but since he is listed MIA (unofficially he is assumed deceased), Chancellor does not count him as such."
-*- u: Chazz/ contact/t: 22:23, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
There is a reference to the SS in the first paragraph. However, I read the Reid book and he indicates the camp was run by the Wehrmacht. Is this a contradiction or is there other historical data on this?-- Silverscreen 17:21, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
This mistake has been corrected before and then reverted. You are correct - All Oflags were run by the Wehrmacht, not the SS Syrenab 18:25, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
I have just started up WikiProject Colditz to cover articles regarding Colditz Castle and, in particular, it's role as a Prisoner of War camp in WWII. This project aims to cover the castle and all the notable prisoners, such as Michael Sinclair and Pat Reid, who were imprisoned there. Feel free to check it out and if you want to help out, I will be most grateful! -- Qarnos 09:34, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Good luck! I spent a lot of time trying to clean up the Colditz Castle/Oflag IV-C in October 2006. Everything I did was reverted by those who believe it to be just fine the way it is! -- Syrenab 19:23, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
Qarnos, I will gladly work with you on this project. For the last several months I hve been compiling articles on Oflags and Stalags, and trying to improve existing ones. The Colditz Castle/Oflag IV-C article in the present form might be a good magazine article, but is contrary, in my opinion, to all requirements for an encyclopedic article - is too long and I believe should be broken into at least three elements :
Syrenab 16:55, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
I support the split because this article is too long and covers three clearly distinct subjects, as you point out. Here is how I imagine the three articles:
1) "Colditz Castle", containing:
2) "Oflag IV-C", containing:
3) "Oflag IV-C escape attempts", containing:
I would also change the title of the "Colditz Castle in popular culture" article to "Oflag IV-C in popular culture", because that's what that article really is about.
I don't intend to do any of this myself, just my 2 cents. Cowpriest2 07:46, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the input, Cowpriest2. Your split suggestions I think are just what is needed.
I offer to do the work, but only if there is general agreement. I alredy spent many hours on this subject and all my efforts were reverted.
Syrenab 13:26, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
I've notified the WWII task force guys. Hopefully we'll see what their take is on this. Cowpriest2 20:03, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
Ok Syrenab, I believe you can go ahead with the changes. No one has any objections, and Kirill Lokshin thinks it's a decent idea. Cowpriest2 03:22, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
I will gladly proceed. But first, I would like Qarnos and Kirill Lokshin to clarify how to carry out the work within WikiProject Colditz in view of the previous arguments against splitting the article and the opposition of ALKEVAR. Syrenab 16:35, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
I left a message on User:Alkivar's page ( User_talk:Alkivar#Colditz_castle). However, he's on an indefinite wikibreak, so I'm not sure we should wait for his opinion. As for the previous arguments against splitting, can you tell me what they are? The split was opposed during the FAR, but from what I understand it was mostly because it was still a featured article at the time. Cowpriest2 07:20, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Oh, I see what you mean. Well, Lokshin seems to have changed his mind, and the article is no longer featured. But I understand why you hesitate. If only we could get alkivar's approval, that would simplify things. Cowpriest2 07:30, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
ALKIVAR forgets that Wikipedia is supposed to be an encyclopedia, not a literary magazine. He seems to think that the dozens of entries in the various language Wikipedias for various castles are pointless, because in most of them not very much happened during the last few hundred years. I suppose he also considers the many entries that I and others have written for Oflags and Stalags are pointless, because most have no great stories of escapes.
Enough said, the plan is to split the article into 3 logical entries:
Syrenab 14:44, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
The preliminary part of the project has been done. The original article "Colditz Castle" has been broken ouit into three sections:
Each of these articles needs additional refinement, of course. Go to it!
Syrenab 13:13, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
I made a few corrections, but indeed, there is still some refinement to do. Colditz Castle/Suggested reading page is kind of weird. Should Wikipedia really keep track of every book where the castle is just mentioned? Maybe we should distribute the references where they belong and delete Colditz Castle/Suggested reading. Also, the references section from the original Colditz Castle article must be redistributed.
I like using the expression "escape attempts" instead of "escapes". Note that this works both for successful and unsuccessful attempts. You can say "successful escape attempts" and "unsuccessful escape attempts". No big deal though. What do you think?
There is some work to do with the titles. I guess we should come up with a convention. Right now we have:
One way would be:
Cowpriest2 06:34, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
Well in fact, Colditz Castle in popular culture is not that long, so we could just merge it with Oflag IV-C. Cowpriest2 07:13, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
Your suggestions are good. I will work on it, as soon as I complete my present project ( Armia Warszawa, English and Polish versions). However I will be away (sailing!) for 10 days starting 29 March, and may not be able to get to it until early April. If you have time to do some rearranging, go ahead. Syrenab 11:31, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
Hi, I noticed several articles relating to Colditz castle and so have created a template to bring them together. At present it only includes the main articles e.g. castle, list of staff, escape attempts etc. However feel free to expand the template to include key people or other similar/related articles. LordHarris 06:26, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
A very good idea! I have added the new articles to the template, and added the template to the new articles. Syrenab 14:11, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
User:Jimdebrichards added the following comment to the article which I have removed and placed here until we work out how the information can be added in an encyclopaedic way:
"(Change info on radio room in Colditz Castle during WW2. French Lieut. Frederic Guigues first set up radio room in Colditz in 1942. + Reference book by Reinhold Eggers (former Commandant), "Colditz Recaptured". 1973. Pg 45"
-- Bermicourt ( talk) 19:32, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
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The article currently describes in words many changes to the building over the centuries. These are pretty vague/confusing. Relevant illustrations (drawings/photos) would be helpful.- 73.61.15.226 ( talk) 14:30, 11 November 2017 (UTC)
Yesterday I reverted these edits: [18], which were made in March by an obvious IP sockpuppet, in evasion of a block, see: Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1010#Countless empty "History" sections, plus copyright violations, etc. - I have been going through their edit histories and doing cleanup.
The edits to this article added an extra level of subheaders, creating a "History" section and moving three of the four existing main sections under it. My revert was undone today by Blackshod: [19], with the explanation "does seem to be a better structure". I'd like to suggest reverting again back to the version of the structure prior to the sockpuppetry, for the following reasons:
I hope that makes sense... -- IamNotU ( talk) 16:07, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
American war correspondent Lee Carson was assigned to the task force that liberated the Castle on April 16, 1945. It was then she took the only photograph of the "cock" glider in the attic. I have updated this information to now read correctly with sources and image. Thanks you. Maineartists ( talk) 14:59, 20 March 2024 (UTC)