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I've come across some online documents while doing research for the article the Morgenthau Plan.
I thought this was a very good document collection:
The main theme is an assortment of documents relating to how the marshal plan originated and developed (covers the period 1946 - 1967), but some documents are equaly relevant to the beginings of the cold war, and I think some might make a good source for material about the birth of the European Union (maybe something to bite into?). I've already inserted one of the documents into the weblinks section a few days back.
An example of another document:
"The Ruhr - The Times' article and editorial on the breach in the US ranks on the subject of the Ruhr were accurate, and the latter excellent. I have been disturbed over the arena in which the debate has been carried out. Clay and Draper claim that Germany will go communist shortly after any proposal to infringe on its sovereignity over the Ruhr is carried out;".
It would not surprise me if there is also a main collection of documents relating to the cold war, but I have not looked. I leave it to those more intrested in the subject (I.e with time to spare...).
The Truman library also contains oral history interviews with a lot of government characters that were deeply involved at ::the time. Fascinating reading. For instance: http://www.trumanlibrary.org/oralhist/kindbrgr.htm#25 Not that much about ::the cold war, but nevertheles.
Finaly I think, the U.K. National archives have a lot to offer. I've already posted this bit in the main article talk page, but as noone seems to have read it I do a double posting. The full war cabinet meetings documents (along with a lot... of other documents) are available as pdf, a bit hard to read though, as they are in shorthand, exactly as the secretary wrote down the conversations. This page gives the gist of a conversation about russia.
At the Cabinet meeting in April 1945 the PM welcomed representatives of the Dominions to the meeting during which they reviewed the world situation. The PM and Jan Smuts, the South African Prime Minister, made some interesting comments on how they saw the world at the time:
P.M.
R. relations have deteriorated since Yalta…Hope we shall get through: but only by unity. New balance (or lack of balance) of power in Europe. These are the dominating world facts. How can we match them? Only by our superior statecraft & experience & above all by our Unity… Smuts. …World needs our maturity & experience. Danger of power suddenly acquired w´out experience & mature responsibility – exemplified by Germany & Japan. Hope won´t be true of U.S. & Russia. We have renounced Imperialism. But what of the economic imperialism of U.S.A. & the ideological imperialism of U.S.S.R. Eire is a warning tht. we may easily break up, as did Roman Empire.
W.M.(45)39th Meeting held on 3 April 1945.
At the meeting of the caretaker Cabinet in June 1945 the PM gave his views of de Gaulle and the Russian advance into the heart of central Europe. The latter is almost a forerunner of his Iron Curtain speech:
P.M.
But no hope of trustworthy relations with France until we are rid of de Gaulle. This advance of R. into heart of central Europe will be one of most terrible events in history. Don´t believe they will willingly go back at least in this generation. 10 European capitals fall into R. hands.
W.M.(45)7th Meeting held on 11 June 1945.
Stor stark7 21:14, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
As the text now stands, it implies that Roosevelt was not intrested in punitive measures against germany. This is false:
Henry L. Stimson, Secretary of War. dated September 5, 1944. [1]
"We contemplate the transfer from Germany of ownership of East Prussia, Upper Silesia, Alsace' and Lorraine (each of them except the first containing raw materials of importance) together with the imposition of general economic controls. We also are considering the wisdom of a possible partition of Germany into north and south sections, as well as the creation of an internationalized State in the Ruhr. With such precautions, or indeed with only some of them, it certainly should not be necessary for us to obliterate all industrial productivity in the Ruhr area, in order to preclude its future misuse.
Nor can I agree that it should be one of our purposes to hold the German population "to a subsistence level" if this means the edge of poverty."
This report of the situation in 1947 shows how difficult it was for Truman to get parts of the U.S. administration to give up their plans for turning Germany into a nation of destitute peasants. [2]
Stor stark7 18:23, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
Am I the only one seeing every section in this article duplicated?
Why is the Bolshevik Revolution in this article? It should be in the origins of the Cold War!
You have failed to mention Yugoslavia's role in the Cold War. I would mention US fears of Russia backing Yugoslavia in the Trieste crisis, also mention the official split between Tito and Stalin in 1948 as the US believed it set a precedent for further Eastern European countries to abandon a close relation with Stalin
I've added the following text to the important documents section.
Some related external links are
-- Stor stark7 Talk 21:32, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
I've added the following text on the reversal of JCS 1067:
In view of increased concerns by General Lucius D. Clay and the Joint Chief of Staff over growing communist influence in Germany, as well as of the of the failure of the rest of the European economy to recover without the German industrial base on which it previously had been dependent, in the summer of 1947 Secretary of State General George Marshall, citing "national security grounds" was finally able to convince President Harry S. Truman to rescind the punitive U.S. occupation directive JCS 1067, and replace it with JCS 1779. In July 1947 JCS 1067, which had directed the U.S. forces of occupation in Germany to "…take no steps looking toward the economic rehabilitation of Germany", was thus replaced by JCS 1779 which instead stressed that "An orderly, prosperous Europe requires the economic contributions of a stable and productive Germany". JCS 1067 had then been in effect for over two years.
Some sources:
And for those intrested, a link to the text of the directive.
-- Stor stark7 Talk 19:31, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
Taking into account that the USSR was formed by joint decision of three republics (RSFSR, Ukrainian and Belorussian republics), and, accordingly, ceased to exist as a result of the joint decision of Russian, Belorussian and Ukrainian leaders, Ukraine and Belarus cannot be called "annexed" republics. I fixed that.-- Paul Siebert ( talk) 03:29, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
In contrast to the Eastern Bloc article, the article subject is more narrow, namely, it tells about political and military confrontation between two political and military blocks. Therefore, it seems reasonable to stop using a vague term "Eastern bloc" and to use Warsaw pact" instead. Accordingly, the Eastern bloc map should be replaced with the Warsaw pact vs NATO map, because some socialist countries, like Yugoslavia or Albania weren't the USSR's allies, and, therefore, didn't participate in that confrontation.-- Paul Siebert ( talk) 19:05, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
The attempt has been made to remove the Cold war map under the pretence that the map of Eastern bloc make it redundant. It is not correct because the article is about Cold war, not the Eastern bloc only. The cold war map is definitely relevant to this article because it shows both opposing sides. If someone wants to remove unnecessary map I would propose to remove the EB map that seems redundant.-- Paul Siebert ( talk) 15:03, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
A user involved in pushing Soviet POV on numerous articles just changed "Fraudulent Polish elections" (1947) to "First Polish elections" [3]. Any user who's in doubt of the whether the fraudulent elections were fraudulent should read up on the article on the Polish legislative election, 1947. Already the introduction points out that "The anti-communist opposition candidates and activists were persecuted and the eventual results were falsified" and that "The elections were not free". All mainstream scholars agree that those elections were fraudulent. Describing them as "First Polish elections" is revisionist. Virgil Lasis ( talk) 19:36, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
The Soviets supported the idea of the partition plan because they wanted the Brittish Empire out of the Middle East so they could enjoy their intrests in the Middle East. In addition, the Soviets supported the Jews by supplying a big mass of weapons (through Czechoslovakia) during the Israeli-Arab war of 1948 mainly because the Israeli leadership was comprised of an absolute percentage of Socilists that migrated from Russia (including Poland, Ukraine and Belarus that were under Russia's controll in the first years of the settlement in the land). In 1949, following the elections in Israel, socialist proclaimed parties won more then 50% of the country's parlament. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bolter21 ( talk • contribs) 22:03, 19 June 2015 (UTC)
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This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Cold War (1948–1953) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I've come across some online documents while doing research for the article the Morgenthau Plan.
I thought this was a very good document collection:
The main theme is an assortment of documents relating to how the marshal plan originated and developed (covers the period 1946 - 1967), but some documents are equaly relevant to the beginings of the cold war, and I think some might make a good source for material about the birth of the European Union (maybe something to bite into?). I've already inserted one of the documents into the weblinks section a few days back.
An example of another document:
"The Ruhr - The Times' article and editorial on the breach in the US ranks on the subject of the Ruhr were accurate, and the latter excellent. I have been disturbed over the arena in which the debate has been carried out. Clay and Draper claim that Germany will go communist shortly after any proposal to infringe on its sovereignity over the Ruhr is carried out;".
It would not surprise me if there is also a main collection of documents relating to the cold war, but I have not looked. I leave it to those more intrested in the subject (I.e with time to spare...).
The Truman library also contains oral history interviews with a lot of government characters that were deeply involved at ::the time. Fascinating reading. For instance: http://www.trumanlibrary.org/oralhist/kindbrgr.htm#25 Not that much about ::the cold war, but nevertheles.
Finaly I think, the U.K. National archives have a lot to offer. I've already posted this bit in the main article talk page, but as noone seems to have read it I do a double posting. The full war cabinet meetings documents (along with a lot... of other documents) are available as pdf, a bit hard to read though, as they are in shorthand, exactly as the secretary wrote down the conversations. This page gives the gist of a conversation about russia.
At the Cabinet meeting in April 1945 the PM welcomed representatives of the Dominions to the meeting during which they reviewed the world situation. The PM and Jan Smuts, the South African Prime Minister, made some interesting comments on how they saw the world at the time:
P.M.
R. relations have deteriorated since Yalta…Hope we shall get through: but only by unity. New balance (or lack of balance) of power in Europe. These are the dominating world facts. How can we match them? Only by our superior statecraft & experience & above all by our Unity… Smuts. …World needs our maturity & experience. Danger of power suddenly acquired w´out experience & mature responsibility – exemplified by Germany & Japan. Hope won´t be true of U.S. & Russia. We have renounced Imperialism. But what of the economic imperialism of U.S.A. & the ideological imperialism of U.S.S.R. Eire is a warning tht. we may easily break up, as did Roman Empire.
W.M.(45)39th Meeting held on 3 April 1945.
At the meeting of the caretaker Cabinet in June 1945 the PM gave his views of de Gaulle and the Russian advance into the heart of central Europe. The latter is almost a forerunner of his Iron Curtain speech:
P.M.
But no hope of trustworthy relations with France until we are rid of de Gaulle. This advance of R. into heart of central Europe will be one of most terrible events in history. Don´t believe they will willingly go back at least in this generation. 10 European capitals fall into R. hands.
W.M.(45)7th Meeting held on 11 June 1945.
Stor stark7 21:14, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
As the text now stands, it implies that Roosevelt was not intrested in punitive measures against germany. This is false:
Henry L. Stimson, Secretary of War. dated September 5, 1944. [1]
"We contemplate the transfer from Germany of ownership of East Prussia, Upper Silesia, Alsace' and Lorraine (each of them except the first containing raw materials of importance) together with the imposition of general economic controls. We also are considering the wisdom of a possible partition of Germany into north and south sections, as well as the creation of an internationalized State in the Ruhr. With such precautions, or indeed with only some of them, it certainly should not be necessary for us to obliterate all industrial productivity in the Ruhr area, in order to preclude its future misuse.
Nor can I agree that it should be one of our purposes to hold the German population "to a subsistence level" if this means the edge of poverty."
This report of the situation in 1947 shows how difficult it was for Truman to get parts of the U.S. administration to give up their plans for turning Germany into a nation of destitute peasants. [2]
Stor stark7 18:23, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
Am I the only one seeing every section in this article duplicated?
Why is the Bolshevik Revolution in this article? It should be in the origins of the Cold War!
You have failed to mention Yugoslavia's role in the Cold War. I would mention US fears of Russia backing Yugoslavia in the Trieste crisis, also mention the official split between Tito and Stalin in 1948 as the US believed it set a precedent for further Eastern European countries to abandon a close relation with Stalin
I've added the following text to the important documents section.
Some related external links are
-- Stor stark7 Talk 21:32, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
I've added the following text on the reversal of JCS 1067:
In view of increased concerns by General Lucius D. Clay and the Joint Chief of Staff over growing communist influence in Germany, as well as of the of the failure of the rest of the European economy to recover without the German industrial base on which it previously had been dependent, in the summer of 1947 Secretary of State General George Marshall, citing "national security grounds" was finally able to convince President Harry S. Truman to rescind the punitive U.S. occupation directive JCS 1067, and replace it with JCS 1779. In July 1947 JCS 1067, which had directed the U.S. forces of occupation in Germany to "…take no steps looking toward the economic rehabilitation of Germany", was thus replaced by JCS 1779 which instead stressed that "An orderly, prosperous Europe requires the economic contributions of a stable and productive Germany". JCS 1067 had then been in effect for over two years.
Some sources:
And for those intrested, a link to the text of the directive.
-- Stor stark7 Talk 19:31, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
Taking into account that the USSR was formed by joint decision of three republics (RSFSR, Ukrainian and Belorussian republics), and, accordingly, ceased to exist as a result of the joint decision of Russian, Belorussian and Ukrainian leaders, Ukraine and Belarus cannot be called "annexed" republics. I fixed that.-- Paul Siebert ( talk) 03:29, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
In contrast to the Eastern Bloc article, the article subject is more narrow, namely, it tells about political and military confrontation between two political and military blocks. Therefore, it seems reasonable to stop using a vague term "Eastern bloc" and to use Warsaw pact" instead. Accordingly, the Eastern bloc map should be replaced with the Warsaw pact vs NATO map, because some socialist countries, like Yugoslavia or Albania weren't the USSR's allies, and, therefore, didn't participate in that confrontation.-- Paul Siebert ( talk) 19:05, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
The attempt has been made to remove the Cold war map under the pretence that the map of Eastern bloc make it redundant. It is not correct because the article is about Cold war, not the Eastern bloc only. The cold war map is definitely relevant to this article because it shows both opposing sides. If someone wants to remove unnecessary map I would propose to remove the EB map that seems redundant.-- Paul Siebert ( talk) 15:03, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
A user involved in pushing Soviet POV on numerous articles just changed "Fraudulent Polish elections" (1947) to "First Polish elections" [3]. Any user who's in doubt of the whether the fraudulent elections were fraudulent should read up on the article on the Polish legislative election, 1947. Already the introduction points out that "The anti-communist opposition candidates and activists were persecuted and the eventual results were falsified" and that "The elections were not free". All mainstream scholars agree that those elections were fraudulent. Describing them as "First Polish elections" is revisionist. Virgil Lasis ( talk) 19:36, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
The Soviets supported the idea of the partition plan because they wanted the Brittish Empire out of the Middle East so they could enjoy their intrests in the Middle East. In addition, the Soviets supported the Jews by supplying a big mass of weapons (through Czechoslovakia) during the Israeli-Arab war of 1948 mainly because the Israeli leadership was comprised of an absolute percentage of Socilists that migrated from Russia (including Poland, Ukraine and Belarus that were under Russia's controll in the first years of the settlement in the land). In 1949, following the elections in Israel, socialist proclaimed parties won more then 50% of the country's parlament. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bolter21 ( talk • contribs) 22:03, 19 June 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Cold War (1947–1953). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 09:56, 10 August 2017 (UTC)