A fact from Clouded leopard appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the Did you know column on 16 January 2021 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
Did you know... that the clouded leopard(example pictured) is the first cat that diverged from the
common ancestor of the
Felidae more than four million years ago?
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I'm looking for the best picture or any informations about the KAF's U-6 (Beaver). It seem that the KAF had 3 aircrafts.
But in 1971, during the viet cong's sapper attack at the Pochentong Air Base,at least 1 Beaver was destroyed.In 1972
at leat 1 Beaver was refurbished with a new engine.
http://www.khmerairforce.com/AAK-KAF/AVNK-AAK-KAF/Cambodia-Beaver-KAF.JPG
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Now let me be clear, I'm not super experienced changing photo's on WIKI, so I am letting you know up front. I know its complicated with trying to find something that isn't copyrighted and is part of free use. Having said that, it is of my opinion that the main picture for this article of the clouded leopard, is very dark and hard to actually see the leopard. That is my opinion, not looking to get roasted or flamed but just wanted to start a discussion and talk about it and see what others think
PrecociousPeach (
talk)
18:40, 13 March 2020 (UTC)reply
Did you know nomination
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
this nomination's talk page,
the article's talk page or
Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
New enough (promoted to GA on 20 December), long enough and written within policy. The image licensing is fine. Both hooks are nice, but have some issues. ALT0 doesn't seem right; the article states that "The clouded leopard is estimated to have been the first cat that genetically diverged from the common ancestor of the pantherine species 9.32 to 4.47 million years ago, based on analysis of their nuclear DNA." which is not equal to saying it was more than five million years ago. More than four, yes - please change the ALT0. ALT1 is a nice, "hooky", hook but the sentence in the article with this claim is not directly supported by an inline citation, which it has to be according to DYK rules. Please supply a direct support for the statement in the article. Lastly, there is no QPQ done and I would like to know why - is this one of your first DYK nominations? Please address these issues and then the article should be ready for DYK.
Yakikaki (
talk)
13:33, 27 December 2020 (UTC)reply
Thanks for you reply at your talk page,
BhagyaMani! Original hook is now good to go. For the second hook, the inline citation supporting the claim would still need to be placed right after this sentence: "Captive clouded leopards have been observed to climb down vertical tree trunks head first, and hang on to branches with their hind paws bent around branchings of tree limbs.", in accordance with rule 3a of DYK. And let me know the situation about the QPQ, is this one of your first DYK nominations? Otherwise you have to review another DYK nomination before I can pass the article. Best,
Yakikaki (
talk)
14:37, 27 December 2020 (UTC)reply
I just added the inline citation right after this sentence. Re QPQ: this is my 2nd DYK nomination, though the 1st one for the sand cat was rejected as I had DYK nominated this one too late. --
BhagyaMani (
talk)
15:03, 27 December 2020 (UTC)reply
Great, thanks! German language source AGF, other source AGF as I can't seem to access it. Everything's looking good, the article should be ready for DYK. Good work!
Yakikaki (
talk)
15:51, 27 December 2020 (UTC)reply
"Western Science"
@
BhagyaMani: Can we please talk about your resistance to the term "Western Science"? It's a
widely used term. (Please follow the link before arguing this point.) "Western Science" describes a new, more rigorous approach to science, but there was science before the SR. The common assumption that there was no science before Europeans invented it in the 16th century is rejected by current scholarship.
The distinction from plain-old science doesn't usually matter — except in cases like this, where "first known to science" implies that there was no science being done in Asia before the Europeans brought the Scientific Revolution there.
Your responses so far:
"Science is just science." See above
"Let's say 'Natural history' instead of science." That just replaces "science" with a term for a category of science. Europeans didn't invent natural history either.
"Let's just leave out the word 'science' and talk about when the first clouded leopard arrived in Europe." And why is that arrival important? Because it was how the animal was introduced to Western Science.
I know, I know, adjusting your language in the face of changing social norms is a PITA. But that's all the more reason to do it.
When i wrote 'known to science' in the lead, the GA reviewer passed this without comment. Initially, I had this phrase in mind as contrast to 'known in culture', because I'm pretty sure that local people knew the cat long before any scientist saw it. But since you make such a fuss about this phrase now, I do not think this important enough in the lead to discuss 'science' or 'natural history', contrarily. The context is unambiguous + clear without the phrase, and that is important. –
BhagyaMani (
talk) 19:25, 21 December 2021 (UTC); revised –
BhagyaMani (
talk)
19:31, 21 December 2021 (UTC)reply
@
BhagyaMani: Come on, guy. It's a simple difference of opinion. We disagree about "science" vs "western science". That's the only issue. If you can't come up with a good reason that I can't say "western science" you need to let me make the change so we can both get on with our lives.
Known to science just means the animal was described formally and published in a scientific journal. This acknowledges that the animal will have been known to the local people, which an alternative like discovered wouldn't. Adding western science implies that there may be some other science where the animal is known. Unless this is the case it adds nothing and serves just to obfuscate and add ambiguity. The current version without mentioning science is clear enough. — Jts1882 |
talk07:01, 22 December 2021 (UTC)reply
And again, the assumption it's only "science" when Western scientists do it.
Oh well, never mind. If you guys can't deal with the distinction between "science" and "western science" then we should just go back to "unknown to science". Which I still find problematic, but is better than all this handwaving about zoos.
Isaac Rabinovitch (
talk)
07:13, 22 December 2021 (UTC)reply
You were the one that put "science" in the sentence in the first place. And you were right to do so -- you were describing an important scientific discovery. If you're going to delete any reference to science, the sentence becomes random trivia about zookeeping.
A fact from Clouded leopard appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the Did you know column on 16 January 2021 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
Did you know... that the clouded leopard(example pictured) is the first cat that diverged from the
common ancestor of the
Felidae more than four million years ago?
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Cats. This project provides a central approach to
Cat-related subjects on Wikipedia. Please participate by editing
the article, and help us
assess and improve articles to
good and
1.0 standards, or visit the
wikiproject page for more details.CatsWikipedia:WikiProject CatsTemplate:WikiProject CatsCats articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Mammals, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of mammal-related subjects on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MammalsWikipedia:WikiProject MammalsTemplate:WikiProject Mammalsmammal articles
Clouded leopard is part of WikiProject Cambodia, a project to improve all Cambodia-related articles. The WikiProject is also a part of the
Counteracting systematic bias group on Wikipedia, aiming to provide a wider and more detailed coverage on countries and areas of the encyclopedia which are notably less developed than the rest. If you would like to help improve this and other Cambodia-related articles, please
join the project. All interested editors are welcome.CambodiaWikipedia:WikiProject CambodiaTemplate:WikiProject CambodiaCambodia articles
I'm looking for the best picture or any informations about the KAF's U-6 (Beaver). It seem that the KAF had 3 aircrafts.
But in 1971, during the viet cong's sapper attack at the Pochentong Air Base,at least 1 Beaver was destroyed.In 1972
at leat 1 Beaver was refurbished with a new engine.
http://www.khmerairforce.com/AAK-KAF/AVNK-AAK-KAF/Cambodia-Beaver-KAF.JPG
This article is within the scope of WikiProject China, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
China related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ChinaWikipedia:WikiProject ChinaTemplate:WikiProject ChinaChina-related articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject India, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of
India-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page.IndiaWikipedia:WikiProject IndiaTemplate:WikiProject IndiaIndia articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Southeast Asia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Southeast Asia-related subjects on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Southeast AsiaWikipedia:WikiProject Southeast AsiaTemplate:WikiProject Southeast AsiaSoutheast Asia articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Malaysia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Malaysia and
Malaysia-related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MalaysiaWikipedia:WikiProject MalaysiaTemplate:WikiProject MalaysiaMalaysia articles
Clouded leopard is within the scope of WikiProject Myanmar, a project to improve all
Myanmar related articles on Wikipedia. The WikiProject is also a part of the
Counteracting systemic bias group on Wikipedia aiming to provide a wider and more detailed coverage on countries and areas of the encyclopedia which are notably less developed than the rest. If you would like to help improve this and other Myanmar-related articles, please
join the project. All interested editors are welcome.MyanmarWikipedia:WikiProject MyanmarTemplate:WikiProject MyanmarMyanmar articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Nepal, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of
Nepal-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the
project page and add your name to the member's list.NepalWikipedia:WikiProject NepalTemplate:WikiProject NepalNepal articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Thailand, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Thailand-related articles on Wikipedia. The WikiProject is also a part of the
Counteracting systematic bias group aiming to provide a wider and more detailed coverage on countries and areas of the encyclopedia which are notably less developed than the rest. If you would like to help improve this and other Thailand-related articles, please
join the project. All interested editors are welcome.ThailandWikipedia:WikiProject ThailandTemplate:WikiProject ThailandThailand articles
This article is part of WikiProject Vietnam, an attempt to create a comprehensive, neutral, and accurate representation of Vietnam on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the
project page.VietnamWikipedia:WikiProject VietnamTemplate:WikiProject VietnamVietnam articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Bhutan, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Bhutan on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.BhutanWikipedia:WikiProject BhutanTemplate:WikiProject BhutanBhutan articles
Now let me be clear, I'm not super experienced changing photo's on WIKI, so I am letting you know up front. I know its complicated with trying to find something that isn't copyrighted and is part of free use. Having said that, it is of my opinion that the main picture for this article of the clouded leopard, is very dark and hard to actually see the leopard. That is my opinion, not looking to get roasted or flamed but just wanted to start a discussion and talk about it and see what others think
PrecociousPeach (
talk)
18:40, 13 March 2020 (UTC)reply
Did you know nomination
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
this nomination's talk page,
the article's talk page or
Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
New enough (promoted to GA on 20 December), long enough and written within policy. The image licensing is fine. Both hooks are nice, but have some issues. ALT0 doesn't seem right; the article states that "The clouded leopard is estimated to have been the first cat that genetically diverged from the common ancestor of the pantherine species 9.32 to 4.47 million years ago, based on analysis of their nuclear DNA." which is not equal to saying it was more than five million years ago. More than four, yes - please change the ALT0. ALT1 is a nice, "hooky", hook but the sentence in the article with this claim is not directly supported by an inline citation, which it has to be according to DYK rules. Please supply a direct support for the statement in the article. Lastly, there is no QPQ done and I would like to know why - is this one of your first DYK nominations? Please address these issues and then the article should be ready for DYK.
Yakikaki (
talk)
13:33, 27 December 2020 (UTC)reply
Thanks for you reply at your talk page,
BhagyaMani! Original hook is now good to go. For the second hook, the inline citation supporting the claim would still need to be placed right after this sentence: "Captive clouded leopards have been observed to climb down vertical tree trunks head first, and hang on to branches with their hind paws bent around branchings of tree limbs.", in accordance with rule 3a of DYK. And let me know the situation about the QPQ, is this one of your first DYK nominations? Otherwise you have to review another DYK nomination before I can pass the article. Best,
Yakikaki (
talk)
14:37, 27 December 2020 (UTC)reply
I just added the inline citation right after this sentence. Re QPQ: this is my 2nd DYK nomination, though the 1st one for the sand cat was rejected as I had DYK nominated this one too late. --
BhagyaMani (
talk)
15:03, 27 December 2020 (UTC)reply
Great, thanks! German language source AGF, other source AGF as I can't seem to access it. Everything's looking good, the article should be ready for DYK. Good work!
Yakikaki (
talk)
15:51, 27 December 2020 (UTC)reply
"Western Science"
@
BhagyaMani: Can we please talk about your resistance to the term "Western Science"? It's a
widely used term. (Please follow the link before arguing this point.) "Western Science" describes a new, more rigorous approach to science, but there was science before the SR. The common assumption that there was no science before Europeans invented it in the 16th century is rejected by current scholarship.
The distinction from plain-old science doesn't usually matter — except in cases like this, where "first known to science" implies that there was no science being done in Asia before the Europeans brought the Scientific Revolution there.
Your responses so far:
"Science is just science." See above
"Let's say 'Natural history' instead of science." That just replaces "science" with a term for a category of science. Europeans didn't invent natural history either.
"Let's just leave out the word 'science' and talk about when the first clouded leopard arrived in Europe." And why is that arrival important? Because it was how the animal was introduced to Western Science.
I know, I know, adjusting your language in the face of changing social norms is a PITA. But that's all the more reason to do it.
When i wrote 'known to science' in the lead, the GA reviewer passed this without comment. Initially, I had this phrase in mind as contrast to 'known in culture', because I'm pretty sure that local people knew the cat long before any scientist saw it. But since you make such a fuss about this phrase now, I do not think this important enough in the lead to discuss 'science' or 'natural history', contrarily. The context is unambiguous + clear without the phrase, and that is important. –
BhagyaMani (
talk) 19:25, 21 December 2021 (UTC); revised –
BhagyaMani (
talk)
19:31, 21 December 2021 (UTC)reply
@
BhagyaMani: Come on, guy. It's a simple difference of opinion. We disagree about "science" vs "western science". That's the only issue. If you can't come up with a good reason that I can't say "western science" you need to let me make the change so we can both get on with our lives.
Known to science just means the animal was described formally and published in a scientific journal. This acknowledges that the animal will have been known to the local people, which an alternative like discovered wouldn't. Adding western science implies that there may be some other science where the animal is known. Unless this is the case it adds nothing and serves just to obfuscate and add ambiguity. The current version without mentioning science is clear enough. — Jts1882 |
talk07:01, 22 December 2021 (UTC)reply
And again, the assumption it's only "science" when Western scientists do it.
Oh well, never mind. If you guys can't deal with the distinction between "science" and "western science" then we should just go back to "unknown to science". Which I still find problematic, but is better than all this handwaving about zoos.
Isaac Rabinovitch (
talk)
07:13, 22 December 2021 (UTC)reply
You were the one that put "science" in the sentence in the first place. And you were right to do so -- you were describing an important scientific discovery. If you're going to delete any reference to science, the sentence becomes random trivia about zookeeping.