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In the article it claims "clouds emit infrared radiation back to the surface, and so exert a warming effect". Is there a reliable source for this? Intuitively one must question the statement's validity, aren't cloudy days generally cooler than sunny ones?-- Damorbel ( talk) 19:08, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
You are persistant! The point is that the presence of cloud reduces the temperature at the surface which is common experience and fact. If you confuse this fact with trolling which I understand is a term of abuse, then may I ask just what contribution you are making? You do not seem to understand that the effect I am talking about is local to the surface under clouds, Ramanathan does not discuss that at all. -- Damorbel ( talk) 07:10, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
SBH rule 5 is your rule, not a WIKI rule ( Wikipedia:What "Ignore all rules" means).
Atmoz, the reason I made this point is very clear in Ramanathan (1987), look at Fig.1 there you will find sky radiation "327" while the Sun is only "169", now can you show readers just where Ramanathan explains how this leads to the every day experience that cloudy days are cooler than sunny ones?-- Damorbel ( talk) 15:01, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
Hi User:InformationToKnowledge: regarding the section on aerosols that you had moved to here, have you noticed that it has a very low reading ease score? Are you familiar with the readability tool that you can add to the list of tools. If you use that tool, you'll see that almost the entire section is bright red (meaning it's difficult to understand). If you have time, could you improve on that please (I am assuming, but am not sure, that this is text that you wrote yourself)?
Also, is the amount of space dedicated to aerosols now in this article well balanced compared to the other content? Or should we beef up any of the other content (or use excerpts if the same content is elsewhere). EMsmile ( talk) 12:43, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
Water vapor in the subtropical upper troposphere has been linked to the convection of water vapor and ice. Changes in subtropical humidity could provide a negative feedback that decreases the amount of water vapor which in turn would act to mediate global climate transitions, all cited to a 1998 study of dubious modern-day relevance. The excerpts too, aren't overly relevant, and the newest references tend to be on the more sensational side. It's yet another fairly important article that's going to take some time to fix, unfortunately. InformationToKnowledge ( talk) 07:34, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
I've now merged the "cloud forcing" article to here. I've put the content under "mechanisms" for now. I don't know enough about the topic to take the next steps of cleaning up, removing repetition or alike. Hoping that someone else has time and energy for this. Should be an important topic. EMsmile ( talk) 07:38, 12 April 2024 (UTC) Copied from the talk page of "could forcing" so that we have it all in one place:
I asked Kevin Trenberth what he thought of this article. He briefly wrote back saying "I did quickly skim it and it is a difficult unsolved issue. The article says why: all the complexity of albedo, expanse, cloud top height, etc all affect how much radiation is reflected and how much radiated in IR. The CMIP6 models had revisions and all were astray. No model does this well yet. A lot relates to microphysics. This paper is good: Raghuraman, S. P., Medeiros, B., & Gettelman, A. (2024). Observational quantification of tropical high cloud changes and feedbacks. Journal of Geophysical Research: Atmospheres, 129, e2023JD039364. https://doi.org/10.1029/2023JD039364
Maybe someone has time to look into this further some time. Would be great. EMsmile ( talk) 08:49, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
In the article it claims "clouds emit infrared radiation back to the surface, and so exert a warming effect". Is there a reliable source for this? Intuitively one must question the statement's validity, aren't cloudy days generally cooler than sunny ones?-- Damorbel ( talk) 19:08, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
You are persistant! The point is that the presence of cloud reduces the temperature at the surface which is common experience and fact. If you confuse this fact with trolling which I understand is a term of abuse, then may I ask just what contribution you are making? You do not seem to understand that the effect I am talking about is local to the surface under clouds, Ramanathan does not discuss that at all. -- Damorbel ( talk) 07:10, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
SBH rule 5 is your rule, not a WIKI rule ( Wikipedia:What "Ignore all rules" means).
Atmoz, the reason I made this point is very clear in Ramanathan (1987), look at Fig.1 there you will find sky radiation "327" while the Sun is only "169", now can you show readers just where Ramanathan explains how this leads to the every day experience that cloudy days are cooler than sunny ones?-- Damorbel ( talk) 15:01, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
Hi User:InformationToKnowledge: regarding the section on aerosols that you had moved to here, have you noticed that it has a very low reading ease score? Are you familiar with the readability tool that you can add to the list of tools. If you use that tool, you'll see that almost the entire section is bright red (meaning it's difficult to understand). If you have time, could you improve on that please (I am assuming, but am not sure, that this is text that you wrote yourself)?
Also, is the amount of space dedicated to aerosols now in this article well balanced compared to the other content? Or should we beef up any of the other content (or use excerpts if the same content is elsewhere). EMsmile ( talk) 12:43, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
Water vapor in the subtropical upper troposphere has been linked to the convection of water vapor and ice. Changes in subtropical humidity could provide a negative feedback that decreases the amount of water vapor which in turn would act to mediate global climate transitions, all cited to a 1998 study of dubious modern-day relevance. The excerpts too, aren't overly relevant, and the newest references tend to be on the more sensational side. It's yet another fairly important article that's going to take some time to fix, unfortunately. InformationToKnowledge ( talk) 07:34, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
I've now merged the "cloud forcing" article to here. I've put the content under "mechanisms" for now. I don't know enough about the topic to take the next steps of cleaning up, removing repetition or alike. Hoping that someone else has time and energy for this. Should be an important topic. EMsmile ( talk) 07:38, 12 April 2024 (UTC) Copied from the talk page of "could forcing" so that we have it all in one place:
I asked Kevin Trenberth what he thought of this article. He briefly wrote back saying "I did quickly skim it and it is a difficult unsolved issue. The article says why: all the complexity of albedo, expanse, cloud top height, etc all affect how much radiation is reflected and how much radiated in IR. The CMIP6 models had revisions and all were astray. No model does this well yet. A lot relates to microphysics. This paper is good: Raghuraman, S. P., Medeiros, B., & Gettelman, A. (2024). Observational quantification of tropical high cloud changes and feedbacks. Journal of Geophysical Research: Atmospheres, 129, e2023JD039364. https://doi.org/10.1029/2023JD039364
Maybe someone has time to look into this further some time. Would be great. EMsmile ( talk) 08:49, 18 April 2024 (UTC)