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I am a student at Imperial College London, and will be expanding this article as part of an assignment for the Science Communications module. I plan on giving an overview, and expanding the article so that it includes subsections. Jbadcock ( talk) 17:15, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
NOTE - The following discussion was originally on the "Cline" discussion. I have made that article into a disambiguation page, so I moved the discussion here where it belongs. Applejuicefool 02:32, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
Since race in biology means subspecies then cline might meet this term. The definition of cline seems to go with what was once thought as the 5 "races" so I will change it so considering these were mere differences in phenotypes and and not genotypes. The race article also indicates this. Zachorious 21:05, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
The following clause is a violation of WP:V -- "many anthropologists are now using cline instead of "race" to describe the 5 main distinct groups of humanity (Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Negroid, Australoid, and Capoid)." This demandsscholarly, peer-reviewed citation. Specifically, if you can find one scholarly peer-reviewed paper in the past 20 years that uses those specific "5 main distinct groups of humanity," then cite it. -- Frank W Sweet 10:22, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
Read the race article for more details. The 5 "races" fit the description of cline, so I will put it back. For example if cline meaning the color red and say Caucasoid meant light red. It still fits the color red and should therefore be included in the article. Similarly the 5 "races" are actually clines per definition as they have to do with phenotypes not completely isolated. Zachorious 2:56, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
Oh yea that is fine too, although the race article did suggest that it wa anthropologists that are now starting to reject the race term for cline. But it's altight now. Zachorious 15:16, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
"Cline" does not work as a substitute for "race" because it means a continuous variation between two extremes of a feature (or cluster of features). It would make sense to say, for example, that "Central Asian populations show a cline between Caucasoid and Mongoloid features". It does not make sense to refer to "Mongoloid" as a "cline".-- JWB 01:34, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
As I said below, I'm not a scientist, but I do have a passing interest in linguistics. I'm thinking the discussion about using cline instead of race comes from the understanding of a group of people possessing identifiable racial characteristics as a continuous variation. Each "race" itself is a cline, varying continuously within itself. In your example, Caucasoid and Mongoloid ARE clines...there are continuous variations within both designations. Applejuicefool 17:26, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
The central large section of this article Rejection of "race" for cline resembles an essay (a well referenced one) not an informative encyclopedia article.-- ZayZayEM 00:49, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
Yes, it only mentions "cline" at the very end, and is also not correct in suggesting replacement of the word "race" with the word "cline". I haven't seen this elsewhere, and it isn't referenced. Emphasis has shifted from "race" to more nuanced views of population variation, but the latter is not described by a single word. -- JWB ( talk) 02:48, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
It seems to be a summary of the main article, which itself is the not best written-- Victor falk 13:19, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
I think the word "adjacent" should be "non-adjacent" else it makes no sense. Someone? — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
74.81.189.18 (
talk)
17:27, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
I've found this, from Johann Gottfried von Herder (1744-1803):
-- Extremophile 21:29, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia, it is not a dictionary. The word cline is used in population genetics in exactly the same way it is used in any other way, it is not a technical word that describes any sort of biological phenomenon, it is an adjective that describes how allele frequencies are geographically distributed, the way it is used in population genetics is not a specialised use. We do not need a long discussion of "race", the fact that clinal genetic/phenotypic variation has been used to argue against categorical "races" should be addressed in articles specifically about taxonomy and "race" and not here. As far as I can see this article serves no purpose. If we want to say the genes/phenotypes vary clinally and we want to include a link to a definition of cline, then we can easily link to the Wiktionary definition like this [[wiktionary:cline|cline]], which gives cline. Wikipedia is not here to provide definitions, it is here to provide encyclopaedia articles, this article is just a definition of "cline". Alun ( talk) 06:19, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
There should really be some mention of the problem of human races in this article, since it's not that uncommon for physical anthropologists etc. to point out that "cline" is a rigorously definable and measurable concept, while "race" is not.... AnonMoos ( talk) 16:05, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
Clines are not related to races. Human races are not distinct sub-species. Races are phenotypical variations within the same sub-specie, homo sapiens sapiens. Skin colour certainly not follows genetic variation. For instance, Papuans are more closely related to Europeans than to Khoisan. walk victor falk talk 03:24, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
The link to types of clines is confusing; I thought they would give examples of ecoclines, but rather they where different kinds of gradients. Addition of examples of, say, thermoclies leading to ecoclines would be helpfull. 128.120.105.143 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 22:47, 8 October 2010 (UTC).
![]() | Daily page views
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![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This article was the subject of an educational assignment that ended on 22 March 2018. Further details are available here. |
I am a student at Imperial College London, and will be expanding this article as part of an assignment for the Science Communications module. I plan on giving an overview, and expanding the article so that it includes subsections. Jbadcock ( talk) 17:15, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
NOTE - The following discussion was originally on the "Cline" discussion. I have made that article into a disambiguation page, so I moved the discussion here where it belongs. Applejuicefool 02:32, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
Since race in biology means subspecies then cline might meet this term. The definition of cline seems to go with what was once thought as the 5 "races" so I will change it so considering these were mere differences in phenotypes and and not genotypes. The race article also indicates this. Zachorious 21:05, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
The following clause is a violation of WP:V -- "many anthropologists are now using cline instead of "race" to describe the 5 main distinct groups of humanity (Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Negroid, Australoid, and Capoid)." This demandsscholarly, peer-reviewed citation. Specifically, if you can find one scholarly peer-reviewed paper in the past 20 years that uses those specific "5 main distinct groups of humanity," then cite it. -- Frank W Sweet 10:22, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
Read the race article for more details. The 5 "races" fit the description of cline, so I will put it back. For example if cline meaning the color red and say Caucasoid meant light red. It still fits the color red and should therefore be included in the article. Similarly the 5 "races" are actually clines per definition as they have to do with phenotypes not completely isolated. Zachorious 2:56, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
Oh yea that is fine too, although the race article did suggest that it wa anthropologists that are now starting to reject the race term for cline. But it's altight now. Zachorious 15:16, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
"Cline" does not work as a substitute for "race" because it means a continuous variation between two extremes of a feature (or cluster of features). It would make sense to say, for example, that "Central Asian populations show a cline between Caucasoid and Mongoloid features". It does not make sense to refer to "Mongoloid" as a "cline".-- JWB 01:34, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
As I said below, I'm not a scientist, but I do have a passing interest in linguistics. I'm thinking the discussion about using cline instead of race comes from the understanding of a group of people possessing identifiable racial characteristics as a continuous variation. Each "race" itself is a cline, varying continuously within itself. In your example, Caucasoid and Mongoloid ARE clines...there are continuous variations within both designations. Applejuicefool 17:26, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
The central large section of this article Rejection of "race" for cline resembles an essay (a well referenced one) not an informative encyclopedia article.-- ZayZayEM 00:49, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
Yes, it only mentions "cline" at the very end, and is also not correct in suggesting replacement of the word "race" with the word "cline". I haven't seen this elsewhere, and it isn't referenced. Emphasis has shifted from "race" to more nuanced views of population variation, but the latter is not described by a single word. -- JWB ( talk) 02:48, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
It seems to be a summary of the main article, which itself is the not best written-- Victor falk 13:19, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
I think the word "adjacent" should be "non-adjacent" else it makes no sense. Someone? — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
74.81.189.18 (
talk)
17:27, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
I've found this, from Johann Gottfried von Herder (1744-1803):
-- Extremophile 21:29, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia, it is not a dictionary. The word cline is used in population genetics in exactly the same way it is used in any other way, it is not a technical word that describes any sort of biological phenomenon, it is an adjective that describes how allele frequencies are geographically distributed, the way it is used in population genetics is not a specialised use. We do not need a long discussion of "race", the fact that clinal genetic/phenotypic variation has been used to argue against categorical "races" should be addressed in articles specifically about taxonomy and "race" and not here. As far as I can see this article serves no purpose. If we want to say the genes/phenotypes vary clinally and we want to include a link to a definition of cline, then we can easily link to the Wiktionary definition like this [[wiktionary:cline|cline]], which gives cline. Wikipedia is not here to provide definitions, it is here to provide encyclopaedia articles, this article is just a definition of "cline". Alun ( talk) 06:19, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
There should really be some mention of the problem of human races in this article, since it's not that uncommon for physical anthropologists etc. to point out that "cline" is a rigorously definable and measurable concept, while "race" is not.... AnonMoos ( talk) 16:05, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
Clines are not related to races. Human races are not distinct sub-species. Races are phenotypical variations within the same sub-specie, homo sapiens sapiens. Skin colour certainly not follows genetic variation. For instance, Papuans are more closely related to Europeans than to Khoisan. walk victor falk talk 03:24, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
The link to types of clines is confusing; I thought they would give examples of ecoclines, but rather they where different kinds of gradients. Addition of examples of, say, thermoclies leading to ecoclines would be helpfull. 128.120.105.143 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 22:47, 8 October 2010 (UTC).