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![]() | On 8 February 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved from 1979 Cleveland Elementary School shooting (San Diego) to Cleveland Elementary School shooting (San Diego). The result of the discussion was moved. |
Should "Dislike for Mondays" be the official motive given in the infobox? IOHANNVSVERVS ( talk) 11:19, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
My arguments and new information which resolves the issue altogether: (This was originally posted here)
1. Stated motive =\= Actual motive
2. "Dislike for Mondays" is not a possible motive for a shooting, that simply makes no sense. Arguably "To liven up the day" could be a motive but that's still a stretch
3. She only stated that as her motive in one single instance immediately after the shooting—what was revealed or discussed about her motive since then? Has nobody asked what the courts or legal system have had to say about her motive?
Unfortunately nobody here has done even a single Google search worth of research before commenting
In a 1993 televised interview, when asked about her infamous statement about Mondays, she said "I don't remember saying that. Right now we're trying to find evidence that I did say that. I'd like to hear the tape. It really influenced how people saw me and thought about the whole case." and "On PCP you're liable to say anything." Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=-lMzatv6Weg Timestamp ~2:40
Also an expert on school shooters wrote the following: Based on the available information, it appears that virtually every claim Brenda Spencer has made during her parole hearings has been false. [...] She claimed she shot them due to hallucinations of commandos attacking her. She claimed she didn't shoot them; the S.W.A.T. team did. She claimed she fired the rifle but didn't aim and therefore had not intended to hurt anybody. She claimed she had taken so many substances that she blacked out and therefore had no idea what she had done. She claimed she only shot to draw police to the house so that they would kill her." Source: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter-Langman/publication/308221608_Brenda_Spencer_Sorting_Out_the_Contradictions/links/57dec91908ae4e6f184c2d36/Brenda-Spencer-Sorting-Out-the-Contradictions.pdf?origin=publication_detail
IOHANNVSVERVS ( talk) 11:19, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
so I think we have to take their word for it.People can lie about their motives. Some1 ( talk) 17:12, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
The article confusingly briefly references a "girlfriend" as a cause for self-harm/suicide attempt; this is ambiguous because while it would usually imply she is lesbian, it is also sometimes used for other relationships. Some googling suggests that she has publicly stated that she is lesbian, but nothing in the article covers this. If this is the case and it's been relevant to her prison life, then it should be appropriately referenced and the usual metadata added like . -- Gwern (contribs) 16:53 20 December 2023 (GMT)
None of the homosexuality claims are sourced so I removed all of them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.57.2.97 ( talk) 15:02, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
I made the original motive edit, sorry for wreaking havoc guys I just came back to this article My original thought process is just that a motive is your reason for doing a crime and her reason was clearly not a dislike for Mondays so I removed it to minimize confusion Not experienced with Wikipedia edits :( Blinkygoober ( talk) 07:19, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. Moved per nom. Two editors favored the nominated title, with two others favoring
1979 Cleveland Elementary School shooting, although not a hard "support", a third the nom, derp20:14, 16 February 2024 (UTC) noted that the year is atypical, so per
WP:NOTCURRENTTITLE, I am choosing the nom for now, and another discussion can optionally be opened later to settle on whether the second option was a better choice. (
closed by non-admin page mover)
ASUKITE
17:09, 16 February 2024 (UTC)
1979 Cleveland Elementary School shooting (San Diego) → Cleveland Elementary School shooting (San Diego) – Remove “1979” from the title as including the name of the city is an adequate identifying factor. MountainDew20 ( talk) 00:56, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Cleveland Elementary School shooting (San Diego) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
1,
2Auto-archiving period: 180 days
![]() |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | It is requested that an image or photograph of Spencer at the time of the crime be
included in this article to
improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific
media request template where possible.
The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites. |
![]() | On 8 February 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved from 1979 Cleveland Elementary School shooting (San Diego) to Cleveland Elementary School shooting (San Diego). The result of the discussion was moved. |
Should "Dislike for Mondays" be the official motive given in the infobox? IOHANNVSVERVS ( talk) 11:19, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
My arguments and new information which resolves the issue altogether: (This was originally posted here)
1. Stated motive =\= Actual motive
2. "Dislike for Mondays" is not a possible motive for a shooting, that simply makes no sense. Arguably "To liven up the day" could be a motive but that's still a stretch
3. She only stated that as her motive in one single instance immediately after the shooting—what was revealed or discussed about her motive since then? Has nobody asked what the courts or legal system have had to say about her motive?
Unfortunately nobody here has done even a single Google search worth of research before commenting
In a 1993 televised interview, when asked about her infamous statement about Mondays, she said "I don't remember saying that. Right now we're trying to find evidence that I did say that. I'd like to hear the tape. It really influenced how people saw me and thought about the whole case." and "On PCP you're liable to say anything." Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=-lMzatv6Weg Timestamp ~2:40
Also an expert on school shooters wrote the following: Based on the available information, it appears that virtually every claim Brenda Spencer has made during her parole hearings has been false. [...] She claimed she shot them due to hallucinations of commandos attacking her. She claimed she didn't shoot them; the S.W.A.T. team did. She claimed she fired the rifle but didn't aim and therefore had not intended to hurt anybody. She claimed she had taken so many substances that she blacked out and therefore had no idea what she had done. She claimed she only shot to draw police to the house so that they would kill her." Source: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter-Langman/publication/308221608_Brenda_Spencer_Sorting_Out_the_Contradictions/links/57dec91908ae4e6f184c2d36/Brenda-Spencer-Sorting-Out-the-Contradictions.pdf?origin=publication_detail
IOHANNVSVERVS ( talk) 11:19, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
so I think we have to take their word for it.People can lie about their motives. Some1 ( talk) 17:12, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
The article confusingly briefly references a "girlfriend" as a cause for self-harm/suicide attempt; this is ambiguous because while it would usually imply she is lesbian, it is also sometimes used for other relationships. Some googling suggests that she has publicly stated that she is lesbian, but nothing in the article covers this. If this is the case and it's been relevant to her prison life, then it should be appropriately referenced and the usual metadata added like . -- Gwern (contribs) 16:53 20 December 2023 (GMT)
None of the homosexuality claims are sourced so I removed all of them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.57.2.97 ( talk) 15:02, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
I made the original motive edit, sorry for wreaking havoc guys I just came back to this article My original thought process is just that a motive is your reason for doing a crime and her reason was clearly not a dislike for Mondays so I removed it to minimize confusion Not experienced with Wikipedia edits :( Blinkygoober ( talk) 07:19, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. Moved per nom. Two editors favored the nominated title, with two others favoring
1979 Cleveland Elementary School shooting, although not a hard "support", a third the nom, derp20:14, 16 February 2024 (UTC) noted that the year is atypical, so per
WP:NOTCURRENTTITLE, I am choosing the nom for now, and another discussion can optionally be opened later to settle on whether the second option was a better choice. (
closed by non-admin page mover)
ASUKITE
17:09, 16 February 2024 (UTC)
1979 Cleveland Elementary School shooting (San Diego) → Cleveland Elementary School shooting (San Diego) – Remove “1979” from the title as including the name of the city is an adequate identifying factor. MountainDew20 ( talk) 00:56, 8 February 2024 (UTC)