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@ GuardianH: It took me a while to get ahold of second-hand copies in good condition of the two sources you cited in the legend to Thurgood Marshall’s picture you added here with the legend, "Marshall would later give advice to Thomas after the confirmation". 20 minutes later you changed the legend to say, "Marshall would later be an advisor to Thomas after his confirmation." I don’t see anything in the sources that would justify "giving advice", much less "be an advisor", so I’m wondering why you added the image and the legend. Here are the text passages mentioning Marshall on the pages you cited.
In [Marshall’s] own departing news conference, he told the world he saw no difference between a white or a black snake, an apparent reference to Thomas as his likely successor. What galled Marshall more than anything was the notion that he could be replaced by anyone, much less a conservative black man like Thomas. "They think he’s as good as I am, " Marshall grumbled about Thomas, according to a former clerk quoted in his biography.
Marshall believed America and its great Constitution never were and never could be color-blind. He devoted his life to writing color into the law, using America’s historic discrimination of black Americans to make race a factor in public-school education, college admissions, and the workplace. By contrast, Thomas believed America could only become color-blind by expunging color from the law. Marshall spent a lifetime reminding America of its racially stained past: Thomas planned to spend a lifetime eliminatibng race from American law. Marshall’s era was over, and Thomas’s was about to begin.
One pearl of wisdom from Marshall stuck with Thomas. As a black man, Marshall said, Thomas would be held to a different standard. The advice resonated instantly with Thomas because his grandfather also had preached that a black man in America had to work twice as hard to get half as far. All the questions about his qualifications had reinforced that lesson.
Thomas learned later that he would be held to a different standard by black Americans as well as white. And that standard was the great Marshall himself.
But other liberals were welcoming, including Marshall, the justice Thomas had replaced. Thomas is a gregarious man, and his conversation with Marshall, a renowned storyteller, stretched nearly three hours and ended with a piece of advice from the liberal legend. "I had to do what I had to do in my time," Marshall told Thomas. "You have to do what you have to do in your time."
Marshall said in a conversation after the swearing-in ceremony that as a black man Thomas would be held to a different standard and that he would "have to do what you have to do in your time". It's a stretch calling that "giving advice", much less calling Marshall Thomas's advisor. Space4Time3Continuum2x (talk) 12:52, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
What is this standard writing thing that's been done extensively before
you keep referring to? It looks as though you cherry-picked a couple of sources because of an agenda (adding an undue image to establish a connection between civil rights veteran Marshall and Thomas?). I haven't come across any other sources mentioning the encounter after Thomas's swearing-in ceremony or any reports of them ever having met before that time. The way the meeting is described it appears to have been a common courtesy conversation with small talk, trivial and not noteworthy for a bio in an encyclopedia. The caption is an undue generalization of one of the two sources saying that "the conversation ... ended with a piece of advice".
Space4Time3Continuum2x
(talk)
15:07, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
Senator Don Cameron, whom Quay eclipsed in the Pennsylvania Republican Party), I just did the same thing, with a fun fact tapered at the end. Take also a look at the Oppenheimer article, which has an image of the Trinity Test in the respective section; I also did the same thing, but with an illustration of Thomas' college.
Bill Coleman watched some of the hearings with Marshall. "If you want to suffer through the most miserable time, sit in Justice Marshall's chambers with the television on during the time of the Thomas hearings," he said. "I think that if he'd ever felt that the guy to replace him was going to be Thomas, he would have stayed on.... [ellipsis points per the quotation in the book] He just thought it was terrible that a person with such small ability and with that lack of commitment, would be on the court at all, much less to take the seat that he had vacated."
Despite the hearings, Thomas was confirmed in a close vote, 52-48. When Thomas joined the court he did the usual round of courtesy calls for brief conversations with the other justices. But his introduction to Marshall was most memorable. The meeting with Marshall lasted more than two hours, with Marshall doing all the talking, telling stories about his days as a civil rights lawyer as well as his time on the court. Marshall also offered a tip to the newcomer: treat the other justices like a family, where ideological differences do not amount to personal differences.
It's a given when you're a student at the college); the article does mention him studying at the college in the caption. The bottom line is that the college's library is an appropriate representation of the college, and so it is a due illustration. GuardianH ( talk) 19:45, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
...why do you keep dragging the library and the purported precedents to justify adding the library image into this discussion of an image of Thurgood Marshall and mention of Marshall in the nomination section— Actually, you have it backwards – you were the one who brought it back. Check your message on 5 October 15:14. "
Similar story — the image of the first detonation of a nuclear weapon ever in a long section about the detonation of the device designed by Oppenheimer is relevant. Image of the library at a school Thomas attended? Not so much." I was responding to that.
you were the one who brought it back
— I was replying to
your message at 16.27 20.27, 4 Oct 2023 (UTC) (that's 16:27 EDT). I replied at 11:44, 5 October 2023 (UTC) (
9:44 EDT) and 12:49, 5 October 2023 (UTC) (
8:49 EDT). 5 October 15:14
: that's
your edit.
obviously undue
: you
made it relevant and due by adding the picture of Thomas's predecessor, with a caption that you have to drag in by the hair and pound into submission to claim it's based on the sources. None of the other current SC justices sport a picture of their respective predecessor on their WP page, although
Ketanji_Brown_Jackson's page has a picture of her and her predecessor smiling into the camera, no dragging or pounding required there.
Space4Time3Continuum2x
(cowabunga) 12:59, 10 October 2023 (UTC) Fixed typo (UTC timestamp).
Space4Time3Continuum2x
(cowabunga)
19:32, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
What was supposed to have been a brief courtesy call on Justice Marshall ballooned into a two-and-a-half-hour visit, and I loved every minute of it. He regaled me with tales of his long, remarkable careeras a civil rights lawyer. "I would have been shoulder-to-shoulder with you back then—if I'd have the courage," I said. "I did in my time what I had to do," Justice Marshall replied. "You have to do in your time what you have to do." Those words have stayed with me, too.This is trivial, while the caption (Marshall would later give advice to Thomas after the confirmation.) sounds as though Marshall was a mentor to Thomas. And neither Foskett nor Greenburg were in the room with Marshall, so their writing is based on Thomas's account. It's as much WP:PRIMARYNEWS as Marshall's opinion of Thomas, as recounted by his friend William Thaddeus Coleman Jr. to Marshall biographer Williams. [1] Space4Time3Continuum2x (cowabunga) 15:43, 12 November 2023 (UTC) Fixed Wikilink error (replaces incorrect name Simon Coleman with correct name Simon Cameron). Space4Time3Continuum2x (cowabunga) 19:17, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
And neither Foskett nor Greenburg were in the room with Marshall, so their writing is based on Thomas's account.Is there any actual evidence for this? Your synths of material regarding Greenburg and Foskett in making such a conclusion is WP:NOR until actually verifiable by either of them. Like I said previously, we can't make such assumptions as we weren't in the room when they were writing their books. Without any explicit evidence, this is clearly original research on your part and a wild misconclusion. GuardianH ( talk) 19:21, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
Bibliography and edit history of image, caption, and Marshall's mention in the main space
|
---|
References
Recapping the edit history on Supreme Court justice Thurgood Marshall's image and caption, and of mention of him in the text
Space4Time3Continuum2x (cowabunga) 15:43, 12 November 2023 (UTC) |
In the popular culture section of this entry there should be a new bullet point along the lines of:
- On February 18, 2024 Clarence Thomas was offered 1 million USD a year from actor John Oliver to sign a contract and step down from the supreme court.
Sources: - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GE-VJrdHMug Jzkhockey ( talk) 20:03, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
"If we're going to keep the bar of accountability this low, perhaps it's time to exploit that low bar the same way billionaires have successfully done for decades," Oliver said on Sunday's episode of HBO's "Last Week Tonight," before announcing the offer he had for Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas: $1 million per year if he steps down from his post immediately. Oliver is also throwing in a new $2.4 million motor coach that's outfitted with a king-size bed, four televisions and a fireplace — a potential deal-sweetener for Thomas, who has come under fire for receiving significant gifts and favors from a network of wealthy friends and patrons.
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change "In Hudson v. McMillian, a prisoner had been beaten, sustaining a cracked lip, broken dental plate, loosened teeth, cuts, and bruises." to "In Hudson v. McMillian, a prisoner had been beaten by respondent prison guards, sustaining a cracked lip, broken dental plate, loosened teeth, cuts, and bruises," to clarify the nature of the beating and mirror the language in Hudson v. McMillian. FinallyTheresSun ( talk) 21:51, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
Done
PianoDan (
talk)
18:18, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
Added text/ref (5/29/2024) to main article [1] - then reverted - seemed relevant - Worth considering adding after all - or Not? - Comments Welcome from other editors - in any case - Stay Safe amd Healthy !! - Drbogdan ( talk) 10:33, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
References
Drbogdan ( talk) 10:33, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
This edit:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/?title=Clarence_Thomas&diff=prev&oldid=1229153723
--> and the removal of content, it may be for simplicity? But GuardianH says that the information is already included in previous paragraph, however, it is not!
Could some of the removed info can be reintroduced? Thank you everyone! 72.14.126.252 ( talk) 01:29, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
Just saw this article:
Probably some of this should be included on the Wikipedia article, right? Or maybe there should even be a new article about all of the sketchy relationships and financial dealings that Thomas has with wealthy elites and billionaires etc? 72.14.126.22 ( talk) 13:26, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Clarence Thomas article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
Index,
1,
2,
3,
4,
5,
6Auto-archiving period: 30 days
![]() |
![]() | Daily page views
|
![]() | This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
![]() | The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
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A graph should have been displayed here but
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![]() | This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report 2 times. The weeks in which this happened: |
This section is pinned and will not be automatically archived until discussion has been officially closed.. |
@ GuardianH: It took me a while to get ahold of second-hand copies in good condition of the two sources you cited in the legend to Thurgood Marshall’s picture you added here with the legend, "Marshall would later give advice to Thomas after the confirmation". 20 minutes later you changed the legend to say, "Marshall would later be an advisor to Thomas after his confirmation." I don’t see anything in the sources that would justify "giving advice", much less "be an advisor", so I’m wondering why you added the image and the legend. Here are the text passages mentioning Marshall on the pages you cited.
In [Marshall’s] own departing news conference, he told the world he saw no difference between a white or a black snake, an apparent reference to Thomas as his likely successor. What galled Marshall more than anything was the notion that he could be replaced by anyone, much less a conservative black man like Thomas. "They think he’s as good as I am, " Marshall grumbled about Thomas, according to a former clerk quoted in his biography.
Marshall believed America and its great Constitution never were and never could be color-blind. He devoted his life to writing color into the law, using America’s historic discrimination of black Americans to make race a factor in public-school education, college admissions, and the workplace. By contrast, Thomas believed America could only become color-blind by expunging color from the law. Marshall spent a lifetime reminding America of its racially stained past: Thomas planned to spend a lifetime eliminatibng race from American law. Marshall’s era was over, and Thomas’s was about to begin.
One pearl of wisdom from Marshall stuck with Thomas. As a black man, Marshall said, Thomas would be held to a different standard. The advice resonated instantly with Thomas because his grandfather also had preached that a black man in America had to work twice as hard to get half as far. All the questions about his qualifications had reinforced that lesson.
Thomas learned later that he would be held to a different standard by black Americans as well as white. And that standard was the great Marshall himself.
But other liberals were welcoming, including Marshall, the justice Thomas had replaced. Thomas is a gregarious man, and his conversation with Marshall, a renowned storyteller, stretched nearly three hours and ended with a piece of advice from the liberal legend. "I had to do what I had to do in my time," Marshall told Thomas. "You have to do what you have to do in your time."
Marshall said in a conversation after the swearing-in ceremony that as a black man Thomas would be held to a different standard and that he would "have to do what you have to do in your time". It's a stretch calling that "giving advice", much less calling Marshall Thomas's advisor. Space4Time3Continuum2x (talk) 12:52, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
What is this standard writing thing that's been done extensively before
you keep referring to? It looks as though you cherry-picked a couple of sources because of an agenda (adding an undue image to establish a connection between civil rights veteran Marshall and Thomas?). I haven't come across any other sources mentioning the encounter after Thomas's swearing-in ceremony or any reports of them ever having met before that time. The way the meeting is described it appears to have been a common courtesy conversation with small talk, trivial and not noteworthy for a bio in an encyclopedia. The caption is an undue generalization of one of the two sources saying that "the conversation ... ended with a piece of advice".
Space4Time3Continuum2x
(talk)
15:07, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
Senator Don Cameron, whom Quay eclipsed in the Pennsylvania Republican Party), I just did the same thing, with a fun fact tapered at the end. Take also a look at the Oppenheimer article, which has an image of the Trinity Test in the respective section; I also did the same thing, but with an illustration of Thomas' college.
Bill Coleman watched some of the hearings with Marshall. "If you want to suffer through the most miserable time, sit in Justice Marshall's chambers with the television on during the time of the Thomas hearings," he said. "I think that if he'd ever felt that the guy to replace him was going to be Thomas, he would have stayed on.... [ellipsis points per the quotation in the book] He just thought it was terrible that a person with such small ability and with that lack of commitment, would be on the court at all, much less to take the seat that he had vacated."
Despite the hearings, Thomas was confirmed in a close vote, 52-48. When Thomas joined the court he did the usual round of courtesy calls for brief conversations with the other justices. But his introduction to Marshall was most memorable. The meeting with Marshall lasted more than two hours, with Marshall doing all the talking, telling stories about his days as a civil rights lawyer as well as his time on the court. Marshall also offered a tip to the newcomer: treat the other justices like a family, where ideological differences do not amount to personal differences.
It's a given when you're a student at the college); the article does mention him studying at the college in the caption. The bottom line is that the college's library is an appropriate representation of the college, and so it is a due illustration. GuardianH ( talk) 19:45, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
...why do you keep dragging the library and the purported precedents to justify adding the library image into this discussion of an image of Thurgood Marshall and mention of Marshall in the nomination section— Actually, you have it backwards – you were the one who brought it back. Check your message on 5 October 15:14. "
Similar story — the image of the first detonation of a nuclear weapon ever in a long section about the detonation of the device designed by Oppenheimer is relevant. Image of the library at a school Thomas attended? Not so much." I was responding to that.
you were the one who brought it back
— I was replying to
your message at 16.27 20.27, 4 Oct 2023 (UTC) (that's 16:27 EDT). I replied at 11:44, 5 October 2023 (UTC) (
9:44 EDT) and 12:49, 5 October 2023 (UTC) (
8:49 EDT). 5 October 15:14
: that's
your edit.
obviously undue
: you
made it relevant and due by adding the picture of Thomas's predecessor, with a caption that you have to drag in by the hair and pound into submission to claim it's based on the sources. None of the other current SC justices sport a picture of their respective predecessor on their WP page, although
Ketanji_Brown_Jackson's page has a picture of her and her predecessor smiling into the camera, no dragging or pounding required there.
Space4Time3Continuum2x
(cowabunga) 12:59, 10 October 2023 (UTC) Fixed typo (UTC timestamp).
Space4Time3Continuum2x
(cowabunga)
19:32, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
What was supposed to have been a brief courtesy call on Justice Marshall ballooned into a two-and-a-half-hour visit, and I loved every minute of it. He regaled me with tales of his long, remarkable careeras a civil rights lawyer. "I would have been shoulder-to-shoulder with you back then—if I'd have the courage," I said. "I did in my time what I had to do," Justice Marshall replied. "You have to do in your time what you have to do." Those words have stayed with me, too.This is trivial, while the caption (Marshall would later give advice to Thomas after the confirmation.) sounds as though Marshall was a mentor to Thomas. And neither Foskett nor Greenburg were in the room with Marshall, so their writing is based on Thomas's account. It's as much WP:PRIMARYNEWS as Marshall's opinion of Thomas, as recounted by his friend William Thaddeus Coleman Jr. to Marshall biographer Williams. [1] Space4Time3Continuum2x (cowabunga) 15:43, 12 November 2023 (UTC) Fixed Wikilink error (replaces incorrect name Simon Coleman with correct name Simon Cameron). Space4Time3Continuum2x (cowabunga) 19:17, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
And neither Foskett nor Greenburg were in the room with Marshall, so their writing is based on Thomas's account.Is there any actual evidence for this? Your synths of material regarding Greenburg and Foskett in making such a conclusion is WP:NOR until actually verifiable by either of them. Like I said previously, we can't make such assumptions as we weren't in the room when they were writing their books. Without any explicit evidence, this is clearly original research on your part and a wild misconclusion. GuardianH ( talk) 19:21, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
Bibliography and edit history of image, caption, and Marshall's mention in the main space
|
---|
References
Recapping the edit history on Supreme Court justice Thurgood Marshall's image and caption, and of mention of him in the text
Space4Time3Continuum2x (cowabunga) 15:43, 12 November 2023 (UTC) |
In the popular culture section of this entry there should be a new bullet point along the lines of:
- On February 18, 2024 Clarence Thomas was offered 1 million USD a year from actor John Oliver to sign a contract and step down from the supreme court.
Sources: - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GE-VJrdHMug Jzkhockey ( talk) 20:03, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
"If we're going to keep the bar of accountability this low, perhaps it's time to exploit that low bar the same way billionaires have successfully done for decades," Oliver said on Sunday's episode of HBO's "Last Week Tonight," before announcing the offer he had for Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas: $1 million per year if he steps down from his post immediately. Oliver is also throwing in a new $2.4 million motor coach that's outfitted with a king-size bed, four televisions and a fireplace — a potential deal-sweetener for Thomas, who has come under fire for receiving significant gifts and favors from a network of wealthy friends and patrons.
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change "In Hudson v. McMillian, a prisoner had been beaten, sustaining a cracked lip, broken dental plate, loosened teeth, cuts, and bruises." to "In Hudson v. McMillian, a prisoner had been beaten by respondent prison guards, sustaining a cracked lip, broken dental plate, loosened teeth, cuts, and bruises," to clarify the nature of the beating and mirror the language in Hudson v. McMillian. FinallyTheresSun ( talk) 21:51, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
Done
PianoDan (
talk)
18:18, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
Added text/ref (5/29/2024) to main article [1] - then reverted - seemed relevant - Worth considering adding after all - or Not? - Comments Welcome from other editors - in any case - Stay Safe amd Healthy !! - Drbogdan ( talk) 10:33, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
References
Drbogdan ( talk) 10:33, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
This edit:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/?title=Clarence_Thomas&diff=prev&oldid=1229153723
--> and the removal of content, it may be for simplicity? But GuardianH says that the information is already included in previous paragraph, however, it is not!
Could some of the removed info can be reintroduced? Thank you everyone! 72.14.126.252 ( talk) 01:29, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
Just saw this article:
Probably some of this should be included on the Wikipedia article, right? Or maybe there should even be a new article about all of the sketchy relationships and financial dealings that Thomas has with wealthy elites and billionaires etc? 72.14.126.22 ( talk) 13:26, 11 July 2024 (UTC)