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Ok this article needs to be completely re-written. As I will demonstrate it does not meet Wikipedia standards in terms of sourcing, reflecting what the sources say and using sources that directly support the info in the article: I have started checking the website references you have used: You have written in the article: "The Carruthers Clan is unofficially represented by the current Proprietor of The Dormont Estate: Mr J.A. Carruthers." However the reference you have given: [1] does not say anything whatsoever to support this statement. All it gives is a contact address for the proprietor of the estate. It says absolutely nothing about the Clan Carruthers and who represents it. Therefore this will have to go for a start. Ok next you have written: "Sometimes considered a Sept of the Bruce Clan by members of Both Families, because of a long history of marriages & close relations beginning shortly after the Arrival of De Brus' of Normandy." However the reference you have given: [2] says absolutely nothing to support this statement. All it shows is that Carruthers is considered a sept of Clan Bruce. The reference says absolutely nothing about Carruthers and "marriages & close relations beginning shortly after the Arrival of De Brus' of Normandy". Therefore this will have to go as well. Next you have written: "The Carruthers Clan & Kinship Has a long history that predates the Norman Invasions & thus the arrival & Invention of the Bruce's as a Scottish Clan" and given references: [3] and [4], once again there is nothing in these sources that directly supports the statement you have written in the Wikipedia article. Next you have written the statement: "Historically Arms were presented to individuals as an Honor, Often for exceptional service to the "Land", or the Country. Coats of Arms were traditionally designed using symbols that represent the specific acts of service being Honored." and given reference: [5] once again there is absolutely nothing in this source to support your written statement. Ok next you have written "Carruthers, likely Meaning "Caer"-"Rydderch" (Rydderch's Fort) was first documented in writing during, but pre-dates, the early 12th Century, when William de Carruthers Made a donation to the Abbey of Newbattle" and given reference [6], and what a surprise the source says nothing about when Rydderch's Fort was first documented and nothing about pre-dating the early 12th century, and nothing to support your written statement. Ok, next you have written the statement: "At one Point the Name was pronounced "Cridders" or "Kridders", quoting references: [7] and [8], the first reference says nothing about how the name was "at one point pronounced" and the second reference only mentions how it is "locally" pronounced. So once again what you are writing is not directly supported by the source. Ok, next you have statement: "Clan Carruther & Clan Rutherford share a common History & Location, as well as the Ancient Kings Name, Ruther, The names similarities suggests that, The Carruthers Lived in, Built or Protected Ruther's Fort(s), While the Rutherford's Lived Around the Fort(s). The two Families seem to Merge in the 12th century when the Rutherford's Can be traced to Flanders" and given reference: [9] which is about Clan Rutherford and says absolutely nothing about Clan Carruthers and therefore again your statement is not supported by the source. This is exactly how you are not supposed to write a Wikipedia article. I am going to copy my evidence to the article talk page so that Wikipedia admin can see it, as I have no choice but to completely re-write the article. And by the way Halbert's Family Heritage are known to be very unreliable. QuintusPetillius ( talk) 11:36, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
The re-write was done respectfully, I apologize for misinterpreting your intent. Thank you. Comradcaer ( talk) 21:03, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
Strait From the book (Records of the Carruthers Family) A well written & sourced book, Not Halbert's
"According to Dr. Robert Clapperton the first mention of the Carruthers family in mediaeval times is in the reign of Alexander II (1215-45), When William de Carruthers Made a donation to the Abbey of Newbattle. Among those who swore Fealty to Edward I of England in 1296 was Simon Carrutherw, parson of Middlebie".(1) sourced on the page (Hist. Mss. Comm., 6th Rept., Appx., p. 709.)
My Suggestion,
The First documented Member of the Carruthers Family to be Mentioned by name was (is) William de Carruthers when he Made a donation to the Abbey of Newbattle during the early 13th Century.
How would you write this?
Is my source written up to Standards?
(Records of the Carruthers Family, Compiled by A. Stanley Carruthers, FSA (scor.), and C. Reid., London Elliot Stock,1958., P. 49) Comradcaer ( talk) 21:03, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
OK, Sounds Reasonable. TY. Comradcaer ( talk) 01:44, 9 November 2014 (UTC)
Actually the primary source used by the Carruthers family is that of Carruthers and Reid ‘records of the Carruthers family’ published in 1932 which gathered information from the main family lines of Holmains and Dormont as well as others. Bruce7169 ( talk) 13:54, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
Just repeating a message that I posted to: User talk:Caruthers32. Let's just be perfectly clear about what Wikipedia is about. It is about writing articles with information that are reflected in the sources being quoted. I have noticed that another user, (Maybe its you ?), has been doing extensive damage to the Clan Carruthers article in which they are doing the exact opposite of what Wikipedia is about and adding lots of unsourced information. The rules of Wikipedia allow for all of this unsourced info to be removed. The only reason I haven't done it already is because they have not touched the important history section that I started. Also, the said editor, when having added a few sources seems to have resorted to the official Clan Carruthers website, when really we should be looking for proper published secondary sources. QuintusPetillius ( talk) 09:28, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
I was born in Glasgow Scotland, my mother was Campbell, my Grandaughters father is Carruth. I was wondering if there was any history between the clans. 2600:1700:5620:41E0:6C24:D9DA:4E8F:4EC3 ( talk) 16:37, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||
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Ok this article needs to be completely re-written. As I will demonstrate it does not meet Wikipedia standards in terms of sourcing, reflecting what the sources say and using sources that directly support the info in the article: I have started checking the website references you have used: You have written in the article: "The Carruthers Clan is unofficially represented by the current Proprietor of The Dormont Estate: Mr J.A. Carruthers." However the reference you have given: [1] does not say anything whatsoever to support this statement. All it gives is a contact address for the proprietor of the estate. It says absolutely nothing about the Clan Carruthers and who represents it. Therefore this will have to go for a start. Ok next you have written: "Sometimes considered a Sept of the Bruce Clan by members of Both Families, because of a long history of marriages & close relations beginning shortly after the Arrival of De Brus' of Normandy." However the reference you have given: [2] says absolutely nothing to support this statement. All it shows is that Carruthers is considered a sept of Clan Bruce. The reference says absolutely nothing about Carruthers and "marriages & close relations beginning shortly after the Arrival of De Brus' of Normandy". Therefore this will have to go as well. Next you have written: "The Carruthers Clan & Kinship Has a long history that predates the Norman Invasions & thus the arrival & Invention of the Bruce's as a Scottish Clan" and given references: [3] and [4], once again there is nothing in these sources that directly supports the statement you have written in the Wikipedia article. Next you have written the statement: "Historically Arms were presented to individuals as an Honor, Often for exceptional service to the "Land", or the Country. Coats of Arms were traditionally designed using symbols that represent the specific acts of service being Honored." and given reference: [5] once again there is absolutely nothing in this source to support your written statement. Ok next you have written "Carruthers, likely Meaning "Caer"-"Rydderch" (Rydderch's Fort) was first documented in writing during, but pre-dates, the early 12th Century, when William de Carruthers Made a donation to the Abbey of Newbattle" and given reference [6], and what a surprise the source says nothing about when Rydderch's Fort was first documented and nothing about pre-dating the early 12th century, and nothing to support your written statement. Ok, next you have written the statement: "At one Point the Name was pronounced "Cridders" or "Kridders", quoting references: [7] and [8], the first reference says nothing about how the name was "at one point pronounced" and the second reference only mentions how it is "locally" pronounced. So once again what you are writing is not directly supported by the source. Ok, next you have statement: "Clan Carruther & Clan Rutherford share a common History & Location, as well as the Ancient Kings Name, Ruther, The names similarities suggests that, The Carruthers Lived in, Built or Protected Ruther's Fort(s), While the Rutherford's Lived Around the Fort(s). The two Families seem to Merge in the 12th century when the Rutherford's Can be traced to Flanders" and given reference: [9] which is about Clan Rutherford and says absolutely nothing about Clan Carruthers and therefore again your statement is not supported by the source. This is exactly how you are not supposed to write a Wikipedia article. I am going to copy my evidence to the article talk page so that Wikipedia admin can see it, as I have no choice but to completely re-write the article. And by the way Halbert's Family Heritage are known to be very unreliable. QuintusPetillius ( talk) 11:36, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
The re-write was done respectfully, I apologize for misinterpreting your intent. Thank you. Comradcaer ( talk) 21:03, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
Strait From the book (Records of the Carruthers Family) A well written & sourced book, Not Halbert's
"According to Dr. Robert Clapperton the first mention of the Carruthers family in mediaeval times is in the reign of Alexander II (1215-45), When William de Carruthers Made a donation to the Abbey of Newbattle. Among those who swore Fealty to Edward I of England in 1296 was Simon Carrutherw, parson of Middlebie".(1) sourced on the page (Hist. Mss. Comm., 6th Rept., Appx., p. 709.)
My Suggestion,
The First documented Member of the Carruthers Family to be Mentioned by name was (is) William de Carruthers when he Made a donation to the Abbey of Newbattle during the early 13th Century.
How would you write this?
Is my source written up to Standards?
(Records of the Carruthers Family, Compiled by A. Stanley Carruthers, FSA (scor.), and C. Reid., London Elliot Stock,1958., P. 49) Comradcaer ( talk) 21:03, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
OK, Sounds Reasonable. TY. Comradcaer ( talk) 01:44, 9 November 2014 (UTC)
Actually the primary source used by the Carruthers family is that of Carruthers and Reid ‘records of the Carruthers family’ published in 1932 which gathered information from the main family lines of Holmains and Dormont as well as others. Bruce7169 ( talk) 13:54, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
Just repeating a message that I posted to: User talk:Caruthers32. Let's just be perfectly clear about what Wikipedia is about. It is about writing articles with information that are reflected in the sources being quoted. I have noticed that another user, (Maybe its you ?), has been doing extensive damage to the Clan Carruthers article in which they are doing the exact opposite of what Wikipedia is about and adding lots of unsourced information. The rules of Wikipedia allow for all of this unsourced info to be removed. The only reason I haven't done it already is because they have not touched the important history section that I started. Also, the said editor, when having added a few sources seems to have resorted to the official Clan Carruthers website, when really we should be looking for proper published secondary sources. QuintusPetillius ( talk) 09:28, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
I was born in Glasgow Scotland, my mother was Campbell, my Grandaughters father is Carruth. I was wondering if there was any history between the clans. 2600:1700:5620:41E0:6C24:D9DA:4E8F:4EC3 ( talk) 16:37, 9 December 2021 (UTC)