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I've formulated a set of new lead and background paragraphs to introduce this subject. I've tried to address some of the concerns presented on the discussion page. Does anyone have any other concerns, suggestions, or ideas before I post it? - Mitchumch 10:15, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
The 1954-1968 timeline info that user Mitchumch placed in American Civil Rights Movement (1955-1968) has been merged into Timeline of the American Civil Rights Movement as "Unsourced/Unchecked Info". This was done because one line stated that Bobby Bland graduated from the University of Virginia's Engineering school - which was patently false. Also, there may be copyright violation concerns. I (or, hopefully other editors as well) will check each line and move the info up into the normal text as time permits. I do appreciate Mitchumch's hard work, and want to see it installed properly. Simesa 16:52, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
The section Desegregating Little Rock, 1957 end with the following sentence:
Can anyone figure out what it was ment to say? And I think we should drop the '!', as it is POV. -- Kristjan Wager 18:35, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
The section Desegregating Little Rock, 1957 begins with the following sentence:
How should this actually start? "Desegregating started in Little Rock "??? Dnahvalkyrie 08:03, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
An economic disaster has been fomented. Modern negroes earn less money than before 1950, percentage-wise. The 1950s percentage was about 65% of what a "white man" earned, but the percentage today is about 55% of what a "white man" earns. I've never before seen so many raggedy negroes. Superslum 16:41, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
Random idea: should the American Civil Rights Movement be made into a category? There are certainly enough related articles, and if we have a list right there on the article page that links to all the major related articles, we should then be able to drastically reduce this article's size by removing the details that readers could get by going to the specific pages. -- BigShock 01:42, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
I don't know if anybody is aware but the american civil rights movement was a BIG movement in which minorities demanded civil rights, so it wasn't just about African Americans; mexican-americans, native americans, women, and prisioners were ALL part of the civil rights movement, and, to me, there is no mention whatsoever about this group. Since this article strictly discusses African Americans in the Civil rights movement, I say we change the title of this article to something like "African-American Civil Rights movement"-- Vircabutar 05:55, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
The result of the debate was Move. — Wknight94 ( talk) 22:29, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
American Civil Rights Movement (1955-1968)→ African-American Civil Rights Movement (1955-1968) – {the page exclussively talks about African Americans as being the sole participant of the civil rights movement; however, under the current title, the Civil Rights Movement era excludes other importan such as Mexican-Americans, Feminist, Native-Americans, and etc.-- Vircabutar 22:37, 10 August 2006 (UTC)}
Add "* Support" or "* Oppose" followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~
Support as stated above -- Vircabutar 07:02, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
I'm abstaining. From how I understand MLK, i think he would have rather seen as one movement, independent of race. But I don't have a strong opinion about the name of this article. — Sebastian (talk) 07:27, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
Add any additional comments ...
Unilateral nonsense such as this is what I get for taking a wikibreak during classes. I note that "American Civil Rights Movement" redirects here - who do you think you're kidding? Simesa 21:35, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Re:
The second sentence doesn't seem to follow logically - it may be true, but it's not quite clear why it's stated in this context. -- Singkong2005 talk 12:23, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
This article covers Jewish participation in the movement, but no other white religious support. Here's a quote from [1]: "Many Unitarian Universalists became active in the civil rights movement. James Reeb, a Unitarian Universalist minister, was murdered in Selma, Alabama, after he and twenty percent of the denomination’s ministers responded to Martin Luther King, Jr.'s call to march for justice." From [2]: "The instructor, the Rev. Dr. Gordon Gibson, first encountered issues of race in the South as a Unitarian teenager. As a newly ordained Unitarian Universalist minister, he was a participant in the early phases of the 1965 Selma voting rights campaign, and served a jail sentence in Selma. From 1969 through 1984 he was the Unitarian Universalist minister in Mississippi, where the previous full-time settled minister was shot and critically injured by the Klan in 1965."
Although I don't have a source for the statistic, a Unitarian Univeralist minister who had marched with Rev. King once told me that half of all the white clergy who did so were Unitarian Universalist. Surely this is worth a mention? Durova 17:40, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
As a white UU myself, I'd say it seems extremely unlikely that UU clergy formed even close to half of the white clergy in the civil rights movement as UU is such a tiny denomination. It's possible that in one movement location (there were a group of Boston UU's at Selma in 1965) or on one march in which white clergy were a small group that half could be UU (for instance, if there had been a total of 20 white clergy and 10 were UU) but this doesn't represent a significant fraction of civil rights activists much less a significant impact on the movement, even if they were disproportionately involved for whites. Although UU's were allies, there were no UU leaders of the movement and UU congregations didn't play a prominent role. My UU congregation, for instance, did not take an abolitionist stand but did become very involved in civil rights in the 60's once the movement was already well underway spearheaded by African Americans. Jews, however,(who can of course be UU as well, but presumably weren't in these cases) were involved in ways that made a broad-based difference (perhaps because of shared oppression and a commonality of purpose--African American newspapers took an early stance opposing anti-semitism when mainstream white periodicals were silent--and/or because Blacks have identified with the Jewish experience. Blacks compared their situation in the American South to that of the Jews in Egypt, appropriating Jewish cultural references in movement songs, churches, and terminology. Black nationalists also used the Zionist movement as a model for their own Back-to-Africa movement): participating in founding National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) and A. Philip Randolph's Leadership Conference on Civil Rights, plus providing substantial funding and support for SCLC, CORE and SNCC, and Jews were part of King's inner circle of advisers.
However, since the civil rights movement was led almost entirely by African Americans and by far the largest majority of the masses of participants were African Americans, I think both the section on the Jewish community in civil rights and the suggestion on UU clergy support should either (1) only be included in a section on white (or nonblack) participation giving a short overview and perhaps mentioning a few leaders (such as Rabbi Heschel), martyrs (such as Rev. Reeb), advisers such as Stanley Levison, and organizational support. At the same time, as an African American movement, it bears discussion of the tension within the movement (particularly in SNCC) on the role of whites. or (2) the role of religious institutions in support of (and perhaps in resistance to) the movement. Clearly this would primarily be about black Christian leadership, churches as centers of activism, SCLC, the Black church, even J.H. Jackson and Baptist antagonism but could mention National Council of Churches, American Jewish Committee, etc.
If your main point is to mention Rev. Reeb, then ALL 40 or more martyrs for civil rights (again the large majority were black, but whites were disproportionately targeted (Jews Andrew Goodman and Michael Schwerner; Viola Liuzzo, William Moore, Harry & Vivian Moore, Jonathan Daniels, and maybe others I'm forgetting) should be mentioned, because that's why he's a hero. Of course, Rev. Reeb's participation in Selma was courageous and his death brought media attention, but there were hundreds if not thousands of blacks who were equally courageous facing bombings, beatings, threats, violence, intimidation, loss of jobs, evictions, homelessness and even starvation day in and day out sometimes for years due to their participation, while the only ones of these white martyrs to devote years of their lives (actually decades in their case) to civil rights are Vivian and Harry Moore. 108.1.110.7 ( talk) 15:27, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
This particular article contains the most-concentrated batch of silliness that I have seen in any single article in Wikipedia. Who wrote all of it? Silliness pervades it throughout. Even the title of the article is creepy. Velocicaptor 11:11, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | → | Archive 10 |
I've formulated a set of new lead and background paragraphs to introduce this subject. I've tried to address some of the concerns presented on the discussion page. Does anyone have any other concerns, suggestions, or ideas before I post it? - Mitchumch 10:15, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
The 1954-1968 timeline info that user Mitchumch placed in American Civil Rights Movement (1955-1968) has been merged into Timeline of the American Civil Rights Movement as "Unsourced/Unchecked Info". This was done because one line stated that Bobby Bland graduated from the University of Virginia's Engineering school - which was patently false. Also, there may be copyright violation concerns. I (or, hopefully other editors as well) will check each line and move the info up into the normal text as time permits. I do appreciate Mitchumch's hard work, and want to see it installed properly. Simesa 16:52, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
The section Desegregating Little Rock, 1957 end with the following sentence:
Can anyone figure out what it was ment to say? And I think we should drop the '!', as it is POV. -- Kristjan Wager 18:35, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
The section Desegregating Little Rock, 1957 begins with the following sentence:
How should this actually start? "Desegregating started in Little Rock "??? Dnahvalkyrie 08:03, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
An economic disaster has been fomented. Modern negroes earn less money than before 1950, percentage-wise. The 1950s percentage was about 65% of what a "white man" earned, but the percentage today is about 55% of what a "white man" earns. I've never before seen so many raggedy negroes. Superslum 16:41, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
Random idea: should the American Civil Rights Movement be made into a category? There are certainly enough related articles, and if we have a list right there on the article page that links to all the major related articles, we should then be able to drastically reduce this article's size by removing the details that readers could get by going to the specific pages. -- BigShock 01:42, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
I don't know if anybody is aware but the american civil rights movement was a BIG movement in which minorities demanded civil rights, so it wasn't just about African Americans; mexican-americans, native americans, women, and prisioners were ALL part of the civil rights movement, and, to me, there is no mention whatsoever about this group. Since this article strictly discusses African Americans in the Civil rights movement, I say we change the title of this article to something like "African-American Civil Rights movement"-- Vircabutar 05:55, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
The result of the debate was Move. — Wknight94 ( talk) 22:29, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
American Civil Rights Movement (1955-1968)→ African-American Civil Rights Movement (1955-1968) – {the page exclussively talks about African Americans as being the sole participant of the civil rights movement; however, under the current title, the Civil Rights Movement era excludes other importan such as Mexican-Americans, Feminist, Native-Americans, and etc.-- Vircabutar 22:37, 10 August 2006 (UTC)}
Add "* Support" or "* Oppose" followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~
Support as stated above -- Vircabutar 07:02, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
I'm abstaining. From how I understand MLK, i think he would have rather seen as one movement, independent of race. But I don't have a strong opinion about the name of this article. — Sebastian (talk) 07:27, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
Add any additional comments ...
Unilateral nonsense such as this is what I get for taking a wikibreak during classes. I note that "American Civil Rights Movement" redirects here - who do you think you're kidding? Simesa 21:35, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Re:
The second sentence doesn't seem to follow logically - it may be true, but it's not quite clear why it's stated in this context. -- Singkong2005 talk 12:23, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
This article covers Jewish participation in the movement, but no other white religious support. Here's a quote from [1]: "Many Unitarian Universalists became active in the civil rights movement. James Reeb, a Unitarian Universalist minister, was murdered in Selma, Alabama, after he and twenty percent of the denomination’s ministers responded to Martin Luther King, Jr.'s call to march for justice." From [2]: "The instructor, the Rev. Dr. Gordon Gibson, first encountered issues of race in the South as a Unitarian teenager. As a newly ordained Unitarian Universalist minister, he was a participant in the early phases of the 1965 Selma voting rights campaign, and served a jail sentence in Selma. From 1969 through 1984 he was the Unitarian Universalist minister in Mississippi, where the previous full-time settled minister was shot and critically injured by the Klan in 1965."
Although I don't have a source for the statistic, a Unitarian Univeralist minister who had marched with Rev. King once told me that half of all the white clergy who did so were Unitarian Universalist. Surely this is worth a mention? Durova 17:40, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
As a white UU myself, I'd say it seems extremely unlikely that UU clergy formed even close to half of the white clergy in the civil rights movement as UU is such a tiny denomination. It's possible that in one movement location (there were a group of Boston UU's at Selma in 1965) or on one march in which white clergy were a small group that half could be UU (for instance, if there had been a total of 20 white clergy and 10 were UU) but this doesn't represent a significant fraction of civil rights activists much less a significant impact on the movement, even if they were disproportionately involved for whites. Although UU's were allies, there were no UU leaders of the movement and UU congregations didn't play a prominent role. My UU congregation, for instance, did not take an abolitionist stand but did become very involved in civil rights in the 60's once the movement was already well underway spearheaded by African Americans. Jews, however,(who can of course be UU as well, but presumably weren't in these cases) were involved in ways that made a broad-based difference (perhaps because of shared oppression and a commonality of purpose--African American newspapers took an early stance opposing anti-semitism when mainstream white periodicals were silent--and/or because Blacks have identified with the Jewish experience. Blacks compared their situation in the American South to that of the Jews in Egypt, appropriating Jewish cultural references in movement songs, churches, and terminology. Black nationalists also used the Zionist movement as a model for their own Back-to-Africa movement): participating in founding National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) and A. Philip Randolph's Leadership Conference on Civil Rights, plus providing substantial funding and support for SCLC, CORE and SNCC, and Jews were part of King's inner circle of advisers.
However, since the civil rights movement was led almost entirely by African Americans and by far the largest majority of the masses of participants were African Americans, I think both the section on the Jewish community in civil rights and the suggestion on UU clergy support should either (1) only be included in a section on white (or nonblack) participation giving a short overview and perhaps mentioning a few leaders (such as Rabbi Heschel), martyrs (such as Rev. Reeb), advisers such as Stanley Levison, and organizational support. At the same time, as an African American movement, it bears discussion of the tension within the movement (particularly in SNCC) on the role of whites. or (2) the role of religious institutions in support of (and perhaps in resistance to) the movement. Clearly this would primarily be about black Christian leadership, churches as centers of activism, SCLC, the Black church, even J.H. Jackson and Baptist antagonism but could mention National Council of Churches, American Jewish Committee, etc.
If your main point is to mention Rev. Reeb, then ALL 40 or more martyrs for civil rights (again the large majority were black, but whites were disproportionately targeted (Jews Andrew Goodman and Michael Schwerner; Viola Liuzzo, William Moore, Harry & Vivian Moore, Jonathan Daniels, and maybe others I'm forgetting) should be mentioned, because that's why he's a hero. Of course, Rev. Reeb's participation in Selma was courageous and his death brought media attention, but there were hundreds if not thousands of blacks who were equally courageous facing bombings, beatings, threats, violence, intimidation, loss of jobs, evictions, homelessness and even starvation day in and day out sometimes for years due to their participation, while the only ones of these white martyrs to devote years of their lives (actually decades in their case) to civil rights are Vivian and Harry Moore. 108.1.110.7 ( talk) 15:27, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
This particular article contains the most-concentrated batch of silliness that I have seen in any single article in Wikipedia. Who wrote all of it? Silliness pervades it throughout. Even the title of the article is creepy. Velocicaptor 11:11, 1 September 2006 (UTC)