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Preliminary reports for the City of David
DO NOT go and paste information from these reports. It would be best if we will not take this huge mosaic of sources and make our own research. It would be more better to use avaiable articles and books written by the excavators, summerizing their work along with the complete analysis of their finds. DO use this sources for reference of the different areas of excavation, who are the excavators and the general periods represented at the site.
The dates are the date of the publication, not of the excavation. Ive added if its a salvage and who conducted it, but may have made some mistakes there...
Ahiel's House, Burnt Room, House of Bullae...
Arminden (
talk) 09:12, 14 February 2023 (UTC)reply
"City of David
By what right is a site that preceded David named after David; especially a naming that was chosen by a French archaeologist in 1913? Even if this is a common name by independent and reliable sources - which I am not sure it is yet - why is none of the naming controversy highlighted in lede, instead of being relegated to a small sentence in the Naming section? Note that its common name in the region to the Arab inhabitants, which probably included Mizrahi Jews, was/is called Wadi al-Hilweh?
Makeandtoss (
talk) 09:22, 17 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Article also needs some expansion on the politicization aspects of the sites by illegal Israeli settlers.
[1]Makeandtoss (
talk) 10:04, 17 April 2023 (UTC)reply
It's just the name for the archeological site, the name of which is the preserve of the archaeologists, however, POV-driven that naming may be. It falls under
WP:POVTITLE.
Wadi Hilweh is already a separate article about the surrounding area.
Iskandar323 (
talk) 10:23, 17 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Check the references below, the archaeological site is referred to by both names - regardless of whether the archaeological site is part of the wider valley of the same name or not.
Makeandtoss (
talk) 10:28, 17 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Both names might have been used for both the dig site and the area, but the dig site is more commonly known as "City of David" and the area as
Wadi Hilweh. See the quote from the first source: Arab neighborhoods in East Jerusalem, especially Wadi Hilweh, where the dig is located. This was hashed out and resolved through two prior RMs -
here and
here.
Iskandar323 (
talk) 10:42, 17 April 2023 (UTC)reply
As far as all the sources mentioned tell, the two names are also used interchangeably for the site.
Makeandtoss (
talk) 10:47, 17 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Requested move 17 April 2023
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Oppose.The name "City of David" is far more frequently used to refer to the archeological site. You appear to be confusing the archeological site with the neighborhood, for which there is already a designated article, named
Wadi Hilweh.
Tombah (
talk) 11:13, 17 April 2023 (UTC)reply
You haven't demonstrated that City of David alone is used "far more frequently". The above results are the main results I got from a quick google search.
Makeandtoss (
talk) 12:19, 17 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Oppose: Per above. This move request, already made highly unusual by the non-standard slash in the proposed destination, would simply re-ambiguate a situation that other editors, myself included, have been at pains to disambiguate. Yes, the "City of David" is a tour de force of revisionist unempirical biblical archaeological POV-ishness, and creates a mess that the
City of David disambiguation page basically exists solely to redress, but it also is what it is. The dig site is simply not well-known as the "Wadi Hilweh archaeological site" or "Wadi al-Hilweh archaeological site", even though it may have intruded upon and contributed to the erasure of
Wadi Hilweh neighbourhood.
Iskandar323 (
talk) 11:31, 17 April 2023 (UTC)reply
City of David (Wadi Hilweh) is a possible compromise, considering that as shown above, every time the site was mentioned in reliable sources, the Palestinian name was mentioned along with it.
Makeandtoss (
talk) 12:34, 17 April 2023 (UTC)reply
As mentioned by Tombah, there is considerable source confusion between the neighborhood and the dig site - the neighborhood is also called the "City of David" by its settler inhabitants, and that is what many of these sources show. What you would need to make your case would be sources very specifically referring to the dig site as "Wadi Hilweh XXX".
Iskandar323 (
talk) 12:55, 17 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Oppose City of David (Silwan) redirects to
Wadi Hilweh after all the earlier renaming and disambiguating kerfuffle gone through earlier. The only thing possibly still worth doing is to specify a separate CoD (tourism) to clarify further Elad misdeeds.
Selfstudier (
talk) 12:29, 17 April 2023 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
1200-1000 BC
Let me tell you a story about a man who was looking for information on Jerusalem in the years 1200-1000 BC...
Cornelius (
talk) 20:50, 18 December 2023 (UTC)reply
The
contentious topics procedure applies to this article. Parts of this article relate to the
Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing the parts of the page related to the contentious topic:
You must be logged-in and
extended-confirmed to edit or discuss this topic on any page (except for
making edit requests, provided they are not disruptive)
You may not make more than 1 revert within 24 hours on any edits related to this topic
If it is unclear which parts of the page are related to this contentious topic, the content in question should be marked within the wiki text by an invisible comment. If no comment is present, please ask an administrator for assistance. If in doubt it is better to assume that the content is covered.
Further information
The exceptions to the extended confirmed restriction are:
Non-extended-confirmed editors may use the "Talk:" namespace only to
make edit requests related to articles within the topic area, provided they are not disruptive.
Non-extended-confirmed editors may not create new articles, but administrators may exercise discretion when deciding how to enforce this remedy on article creations. Deletion of new articles created by non-extended-confirmed editors is permitted but not required.
With respect to the WP:1RR restriction:
Clear vandalism of whatever origin may be reverted without restriction. Also, reverts made solely to enforce the extended confirmed restriction are not considered edit warring.
Editors who violate this restriction may be blocked by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offence.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Israel, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Israel on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IsraelWikipedia:WikiProject IsraelTemplate:WikiProject IsraelIsrael-related articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Archaeology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Archaeology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ArchaeologyWikipedia:WikiProject ArchaeologyTemplate:WikiProject ArchaeologyArchaeology articles
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This article is within the scope of WikiProject Palestine, a team effort dedicated to building and maintaining comprehensive, informative and balanced articles related to the geographic
Palestine region, the
Palestinian people and the
State of Palestine on Wikipedia. Join us by visiting
the project page, where you can add your name to the
list of members where you can contribute to the
discussions.PalestineWikipedia:WikiProject PalestineTemplate:WikiProject PalestinePalestine-related articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ancient Near East, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Ancient Near East related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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This page has archives. Sections older than 365 days may be automatically archived by ClueBot III when more than 5 sections are present.
Preliminary reports for the City of David
DO NOT go and paste information from these reports. It would be best if we will not take this huge mosaic of sources and make our own research. It would be more better to use avaiable articles and books written by the excavators, summerizing their work along with the complete analysis of their finds. DO use this sources for reference of the different areas of excavation, who are the excavators and the general periods represented at the site.
The dates are the date of the publication, not of the excavation. Ive added if its a salvage and who conducted it, but may have made some mistakes there...
Ahiel's House, Burnt Room, House of Bullae...
Arminden (
talk) 09:12, 14 February 2023 (UTC)reply
"City of David
By what right is a site that preceded David named after David; especially a naming that was chosen by a French archaeologist in 1913? Even if this is a common name by independent and reliable sources - which I am not sure it is yet - why is none of the naming controversy highlighted in lede, instead of being relegated to a small sentence in the Naming section? Note that its common name in the region to the Arab inhabitants, which probably included Mizrahi Jews, was/is called Wadi al-Hilweh?
Makeandtoss (
talk) 09:22, 17 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Article also needs some expansion on the politicization aspects of the sites by illegal Israeli settlers.
[1]Makeandtoss (
talk) 10:04, 17 April 2023 (UTC)reply
It's just the name for the archeological site, the name of which is the preserve of the archaeologists, however, POV-driven that naming may be. It falls under
WP:POVTITLE.
Wadi Hilweh is already a separate article about the surrounding area.
Iskandar323 (
talk) 10:23, 17 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Check the references below, the archaeological site is referred to by both names - regardless of whether the archaeological site is part of the wider valley of the same name or not.
Makeandtoss (
talk) 10:28, 17 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Both names might have been used for both the dig site and the area, but the dig site is more commonly known as "City of David" and the area as
Wadi Hilweh. See the quote from the first source: Arab neighborhoods in East Jerusalem, especially Wadi Hilweh, where the dig is located. This was hashed out and resolved through two prior RMs -
here and
here.
Iskandar323 (
talk) 10:42, 17 April 2023 (UTC)reply
As far as all the sources mentioned tell, the two names are also used interchangeably for the site.
Makeandtoss (
talk) 10:47, 17 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Requested move 17 April 2023
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Oppose.The name "City of David" is far more frequently used to refer to the archeological site. You appear to be confusing the archeological site with the neighborhood, for which there is already a designated article, named
Wadi Hilweh.
Tombah (
talk) 11:13, 17 April 2023 (UTC)reply
You haven't demonstrated that City of David alone is used "far more frequently". The above results are the main results I got from a quick google search.
Makeandtoss (
talk) 12:19, 17 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Oppose: Per above. This move request, already made highly unusual by the non-standard slash in the proposed destination, would simply re-ambiguate a situation that other editors, myself included, have been at pains to disambiguate. Yes, the "City of David" is a tour de force of revisionist unempirical biblical archaeological POV-ishness, and creates a mess that the
City of David disambiguation page basically exists solely to redress, but it also is what it is. The dig site is simply not well-known as the "Wadi Hilweh archaeological site" or "Wadi al-Hilweh archaeological site", even though it may have intruded upon and contributed to the erasure of
Wadi Hilweh neighbourhood.
Iskandar323 (
talk) 11:31, 17 April 2023 (UTC)reply
City of David (Wadi Hilweh) is a possible compromise, considering that as shown above, every time the site was mentioned in reliable sources, the Palestinian name was mentioned along with it.
Makeandtoss (
talk) 12:34, 17 April 2023 (UTC)reply
As mentioned by Tombah, there is considerable source confusion between the neighborhood and the dig site - the neighborhood is also called the "City of David" by its settler inhabitants, and that is what many of these sources show. What you would need to make your case would be sources very specifically referring to the dig site as "Wadi Hilweh XXX".
Iskandar323 (
talk) 12:55, 17 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Oppose City of David (Silwan) redirects to
Wadi Hilweh after all the earlier renaming and disambiguating kerfuffle gone through earlier. The only thing possibly still worth doing is to specify a separate CoD (tourism) to clarify further Elad misdeeds.
Selfstudier (
talk) 12:29, 17 April 2023 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
1200-1000 BC
Let me tell you a story about a man who was looking for information on Jerusalem in the years 1200-1000 BC...
Cornelius (
talk) 20:50, 18 December 2023 (UTC)reply