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I believe it's also called "China" bark. This should be added to the article. Badagnani 17:33, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
The proper pronunciation would be a nice addition to the article. Chillum 00:32, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
Wasn't Cinchona the objective of an old computer game called The Amazon Trail? I think that this might be relevant information, but I'm not sure. I thought I should check before adding that information. Bennoman ( talk) 16:05, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
On the packaging of Herbatint Hair dye, under 'Ingredients', Cinchona is listed thus; Cinchona Extract - Natural extract from Chinchona - Tonic, Astringent / Antiseptic for the scalp. The ingredients are also listed at the following link: Herbatint Ingredients. I verified this ingredient by reading the ingredients on a package I puchased M. Waithe ( talk)-- 99.231.66.125 ( talk) 22:42, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
The wikilink to the Countess points to a painting of María Teresa de Borbón, 15th Countess of Chinchón. However, she lived after the 1638 date listed and never married out of Spanish royalty. The wikilink should be removed as it is incorrect. Morenooso ( talk) 10:08, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
Since as per the tag, Discussion of this nomination can be found on the talk page. (August 2009), and no discussion ever took place as to what was POV, I assume this issue is dead. Should the POV tag be replaced, it will be removed summarily if not discussed. -- Morenooso ( talk) 12:56, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
The picture of what looks like ancient Greeks or something says that "Peru offers a piece of Cinchona to Science" which is obviously false. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.119.125.104 ( talk) 21:00, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
I've made some changes in the text as it doesn't concur with what has been written by Cullen nor Hahnemann.
Cullen referred to it as "Peruvian bark", not quinine. He also referred to "intermittent fevers" not malaria - see ref in article.
Nowhere I'm aware of did Cullen write that it caused malaria nor intermittent fever - I have read the book in the ref.
Hahnemenn actually referred to it as China, Cinchona or Peruvian bark, Quinine bark is not a well used term, certainly not in this context of homeopathy. Further it is not described as such elswhere in the article.
The concept of "rare" in describing Hahnemanns reaction to the Peruvian bark is possibly exaggerating, though to say his specific individual sensitivity to it is accurate. There is no data I know of to describe acurately how rare it is. It does appear from literature of the time
[1] that there was a doubt over whether it was possible for a fever to occur with the administration of cinchona. However, Hahnemann didn't claim an actual fever, he merely described the symptoms as being similar to the fever symptoms and list many but says nothing of an actual fever. Therefore the claims it was wrong or unusual are suspect. That it is his individual sensitivity is logical and infers some degree of it not being common or universal, his "special individual susceptability"
[2] is possibly better in the lack of other evidence. However not having access to the reference currently in the article I will leave this until someone can say where that author got his information from. Though the "are now believed" is clearly inaccurate as it was doubted at the time and worded as I said just above. Therefore I have removed the now.
Cjwilky (
talk) 22:27, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
In the first paragraph of Cinchona#Medicinal_uses, shouldn't there be a source?
Also, in Cinchona#cite_note-mysore-6, the note redirects to the correct page in the book, but it isn't p. 892. It's p. 169. JMtB03 ( talk) 03:45, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
The opening sentence: "Cinchona or Quina is a genus of about 38 species in the family Rubiaceae, native to the tropical Andes forests of western South America." What is the thing? Is it flowers, insects, worms... how about birds? It doesn't matter how many species or in what family, if we don't know what it is. Even after reading the second sentence, and seeing the picture of the flower, we might assume it's a wild flower (we'd be wrong). Other sources say 40 species; I suppose that's 'about' 38, but why not use a nice round number? Stating '38' sounds like we know exactly how many there are. Some sources say 67 species. In the Species section, we list only 28; where's the other ten? Maybe the section title should be Selected species, or there needs to be some kind of footnote (at least) to the effect that there are others not enumerated. I've already changed the intro sentence about medicinal species (there are only 4 that are efficacious for that purpose, and two of those only marginally). And it isn't the plant (i.e. dig it up, cut it down, whatever) that is used medicinally - it's only the bark of the tree, and it is harvested from the tree carefully, so the tree remains alive.
Cinchona is a botanical genus name; but foremost, it is the vernacular name of a type of tree, lke Elm, Oak, etc. It may also refer to the bark of the tree, or loosely to a medicinal preparation of the powdered bark dissolved in wine. We might also want to place a [distinguish|Chinchon] hatnote, in case the reader was looking for the municipality of Chinchon, Spain from which the name of the tree is derived. Early texts also spelled the name Cinchonum.
The intro needs to be re-drafted, first things first, and with a bit more attention to accurate detail. Sbalfour ( talk) 16:30, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
As a reminder, don't use these on talk pages. — LlywelynII 00:10, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
The brief story about the Countess bathing in quinine-infused water to cure malaria is apocryphal and needs to be sourced. It doesn't even include a date when this happened--1987? 1523? It is completely unclear whether bathing in quinine even has any therapeutic value, much less being able to cure malaria. I'm not even sure if drinking it will cure malaria. 6StringJazzer ( talk) 06:28, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
Even accepting the dubious story, note that Clements R. Markham was the first to claim that the Countess involved was Ana De Osorio, the Count's first wife, in his 'a Memoir of the Lady Ana de Osorio, Countess of Chinchon' (1874). He corrected this in his 'a History of Peru' (1892), noting that Ana de Osorio died before the Count was appointed Viceroy, and that the Countess during his tenure in Peru was his second wife, Francisca Henriquez de Ribera. Nomen ambiguum ( talk) 02:44, 26 March 2017 (UTC)
For historical practices, understandings, and sourcing of anecdotes:
Particularly noteworthy is the fear of peak cinchona (although possibly at the insistence of self-interested English botanists) and the efforts to preserve the trees through moratoria on its harvesting in Upper Peru and the efforts to establish plantations in Algeria and on Java. Note also Royle's repetition of the claim that the indians had not known the use of the quinquino and that the Jesuits claimed to have discovered its uses. — LlywelynII 00:10, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The COMMON NAME of the medicinal bark is cinchona. ("Jesuit's bark" is archaic and was always less common: see the linked Britannica article above from 150 years ago.) The medicinal bark can be and is extracted from more than one species of this genus (ditto Britannica) but is distinct from factory-produced modern pharmaceuticals. This article is the best namespace and the proper scope to address the traditional medicine and there's no need to treat the history of the plants' cultivation in two places. — LlywelynII 01:45, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
“/sɪŋˈkoʊnə/ or /-koʊnə/”
The ending with the hyphen is the same as the ending found in the first transcription. Ungoliant MMDCCLXIV ( talk) 20:04, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
I cannot find an explanation why certain plants deposit quinine in their bark. The article concentrates on the medicinal benefit to humans. Does quinine protect the trees from certain pests/fungi/bacteria/virus etc, come as a waste by-product of some cellular process or what other function does it serve the plants themselves? Presumably, the plants do not do this as a favor to humans and are not themselves affected by maleria? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:C22:B817:8300:480A:F4F0:F44A:D15C ( talk) 06:54, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
Hello @ Kimpsky: The sources doi: 10.1016/B978-0-12-800874-4.00014-3 and doi: 10.1086/678104 document its Precolumbian use by the South Americans. Invasive Spices ( talk) 26 October 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Cinchona article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||
|
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
I believe it's also called "China" bark. This should be added to the article. Badagnani 17:33, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
The proper pronunciation would be a nice addition to the article. Chillum 00:32, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
Wasn't Cinchona the objective of an old computer game called The Amazon Trail? I think that this might be relevant information, but I'm not sure. I thought I should check before adding that information. Bennoman ( talk) 16:05, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
On the packaging of Herbatint Hair dye, under 'Ingredients', Cinchona is listed thus; Cinchona Extract - Natural extract from Chinchona - Tonic, Astringent / Antiseptic for the scalp. The ingredients are also listed at the following link: Herbatint Ingredients. I verified this ingredient by reading the ingredients on a package I puchased M. Waithe ( talk)-- 99.231.66.125 ( talk) 22:42, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
The wikilink to the Countess points to a painting of María Teresa de Borbón, 15th Countess of Chinchón. However, she lived after the 1638 date listed and never married out of Spanish royalty. The wikilink should be removed as it is incorrect. Morenooso ( talk) 10:08, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
Since as per the tag, Discussion of this nomination can be found on the talk page. (August 2009), and no discussion ever took place as to what was POV, I assume this issue is dead. Should the POV tag be replaced, it will be removed summarily if not discussed. -- Morenooso ( talk) 12:56, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
The picture of what looks like ancient Greeks or something says that "Peru offers a piece of Cinchona to Science" which is obviously false. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.119.125.104 ( talk) 21:00, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
I've made some changes in the text as it doesn't concur with what has been written by Cullen nor Hahnemann.
Cullen referred to it as "Peruvian bark", not quinine. He also referred to "intermittent fevers" not malaria - see ref in article.
Nowhere I'm aware of did Cullen write that it caused malaria nor intermittent fever - I have read the book in the ref.
Hahnemenn actually referred to it as China, Cinchona or Peruvian bark, Quinine bark is not a well used term, certainly not in this context of homeopathy. Further it is not described as such elswhere in the article.
The concept of "rare" in describing Hahnemanns reaction to the Peruvian bark is possibly exaggerating, though to say his specific individual sensitivity to it is accurate. There is no data I know of to describe acurately how rare it is. It does appear from literature of the time
[1] that there was a doubt over whether it was possible for a fever to occur with the administration of cinchona. However, Hahnemann didn't claim an actual fever, he merely described the symptoms as being similar to the fever symptoms and list many but says nothing of an actual fever. Therefore the claims it was wrong or unusual are suspect. That it is his individual sensitivity is logical and infers some degree of it not being common or universal, his "special individual susceptability"
[2] is possibly better in the lack of other evidence. However not having access to the reference currently in the article I will leave this until someone can say where that author got his information from. Though the "are now believed" is clearly inaccurate as it was doubted at the time and worded as I said just above. Therefore I have removed the now.
Cjwilky (
talk) 22:27, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
In the first paragraph of Cinchona#Medicinal_uses, shouldn't there be a source?
Also, in Cinchona#cite_note-mysore-6, the note redirects to the correct page in the book, but it isn't p. 892. It's p. 169. JMtB03 ( talk) 03:45, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
The opening sentence: "Cinchona or Quina is a genus of about 38 species in the family Rubiaceae, native to the tropical Andes forests of western South America." What is the thing? Is it flowers, insects, worms... how about birds? It doesn't matter how many species or in what family, if we don't know what it is. Even after reading the second sentence, and seeing the picture of the flower, we might assume it's a wild flower (we'd be wrong). Other sources say 40 species; I suppose that's 'about' 38, but why not use a nice round number? Stating '38' sounds like we know exactly how many there are. Some sources say 67 species. In the Species section, we list only 28; where's the other ten? Maybe the section title should be Selected species, or there needs to be some kind of footnote (at least) to the effect that there are others not enumerated. I've already changed the intro sentence about medicinal species (there are only 4 that are efficacious for that purpose, and two of those only marginally). And it isn't the plant (i.e. dig it up, cut it down, whatever) that is used medicinally - it's only the bark of the tree, and it is harvested from the tree carefully, so the tree remains alive.
Cinchona is a botanical genus name; but foremost, it is the vernacular name of a type of tree, lke Elm, Oak, etc. It may also refer to the bark of the tree, or loosely to a medicinal preparation of the powdered bark dissolved in wine. We might also want to place a [distinguish|Chinchon] hatnote, in case the reader was looking for the municipality of Chinchon, Spain from which the name of the tree is derived. Early texts also spelled the name Cinchonum.
The intro needs to be re-drafted, first things first, and with a bit more attention to accurate detail. Sbalfour ( talk) 16:30, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
As a reminder, don't use these on talk pages. — LlywelynII 00:10, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
The brief story about the Countess bathing in quinine-infused water to cure malaria is apocryphal and needs to be sourced. It doesn't even include a date when this happened--1987? 1523? It is completely unclear whether bathing in quinine even has any therapeutic value, much less being able to cure malaria. I'm not even sure if drinking it will cure malaria. 6StringJazzer ( talk) 06:28, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
Even accepting the dubious story, note that Clements R. Markham was the first to claim that the Countess involved was Ana De Osorio, the Count's first wife, in his 'a Memoir of the Lady Ana de Osorio, Countess of Chinchon' (1874). He corrected this in his 'a History of Peru' (1892), noting that Ana de Osorio died before the Count was appointed Viceroy, and that the Countess during his tenure in Peru was his second wife, Francisca Henriquez de Ribera. Nomen ambiguum ( talk) 02:44, 26 March 2017 (UTC)
For historical practices, understandings, and sourcing of anecdotes:
Particularly noteworthy is the fear of peak cinchona (although possibly at the insistence of self-interested English botanists) and the efforts to preserve the trees through moratoria on its harvesting in Upper Peru and the efforts to establish plantations in Algeria and on Java. Note also Royle's repetition of the claim that the indians had not known the use of the quinquino and that the Jesuits claimed to have discovered its uses. — LlywelynII 00:10, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The COMMON NAME of the medicinal bark is cinchona. ("Jesuit's bark" is archaic and was always less common: see the linked Britannica article above from 150 years ago.) The medicinal bark can be and is extracted from more than one species of this genus (ditto Britannica) but is distinct from factory-produced modern pharmaceuticals. This article is the best namespace and the proper scope to address the traditional medicine and there's no need to treat the history of the plants' cultivation in two places. — LlywelynII 01:45, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
“/sɪŋˈkoʊnə/ or /-koʊnə/”
The ending with the hyphen is the same as the ending found in the first transcription. Ungoliant MMDCCLXIV ( talk) 20:04, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
I cannot find an explanation why certain plants deposit quinine in their bark. The article concentrates on the medicinal benefit to humans. Does quinine protect the trees from certain pests/fungi/bacteria/virus etc, come as a waste by-product of some cellular process or what other function does it serve the plants themselves? Presumably, the plants do not do this as a favor to humans and are not themselves affected by maleria? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:C22:B817:8300:480A:F4F0:F44A:D15C ( talk) 06:54, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
Hello @ Kimpsky: The sources doi: 10.1016/B978-0-12-800874-4.00014-3 and doi: 10.1086/678104 document its Precolumbian use by the South Americans. Invasive Spices ( talk) 26 October 2022 (UTC)