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67.166.42.66, my issue was not that you were trying to improve the article, but that you were both rude and removing important information. I can live with the wording, but I'm glad they've not made you an admin either. Chris 19:40, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
The top link doesn't come up dead for me, and the bottom link was originally spammed by someone, but it was discussed to leave it as it seems to grow into a forom for those interested. Chris 02:49, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
I am again reverting deletions by Sean Black, and have asked him to explain on the talk page first why these are "simply unacceptable". Nothing is ever so "simple" as to warrant unexplained deletions. If, as he maintains "a free image to illustrate this article would be trivial to locate", then he should do so. Chris 17:44, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
If it is fair use on smoking culture, then it should be fair use here, as they are both using it to show the sort of people who use cigarette holders. Franz-kafka 19:24, 28 April 2007 (UTC) Franz-kafka 21:47, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
Comes up with "forum removed...possible TOS violation".
Information, not advertising (or yellow advertising) please.
65.80.185.206 16:34, 8 April 2007 (UTC)We've been over this, y'all. External links *of value* are an enrichment, not a detriment. The commercial site has some nifty information including history (if and when I can get some verification for some of it I'll add it to the article, actually) and the "fetish" site has some amazing period photographs. I think both are more than reasonably valuable.
I am temporarily removing " actors Errol Flynn, Rudolph Valentino, Monty Woolley, Clark Gable, Laurence Harvey, Walter Pidgeon " from the text as it is becoming too male-centric. If anything, this is primarily a female phenomenon and the males are more the exception to the rule. If someone wants to compile a list of notables that smoke using holders, please do so. Chris 00:31, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
During the production of the original Planet of the Apes movies ( Planet of the Apes (1968 film), Beneath the Planet of the Apes, Escape from the Planet of the Apes, Conquest of the Planet of the Apes, and Battle for the Planet of the Apes) the actors who portrayed the apes would use long cigarette holders to smoke between takes, so as not to disturb their make-up (or set it on fire).
http://www.theforbidden-zone.com/info/trivia.shtml
The article should be editted to reflect this fact.
71.168.132.16 ( talk) 08:12, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
Other than for fashion, does a cigarette holder filter or anything? Does it make it safer to smoke the cigarette? (Though inhaling any amount of smoke and such into the body isn't healthy overall.) Coffee4binky ( talk) 18:21, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
I elaborated on the practical use portion. I have been using a cigarette holder for 20+ yrs, and have lots of knowledge, but some idiot keeps trying to delete it. He wants me to cite the portion, when I am in fact an informed person on this matter--therefore no citations are needed. I have a degree in Political Science and History, and am scholarly by nature. I wrote the section under my username: rocketpeacock. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.143.101.214 ( talk) 18:03, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
The picture of Cleo Trumbo is under copyright, and the fair use rationale for its appearance in this article rests on the bizarre claim that "cigarette holder" is a deceased person. Its use is perfectly well-justified in the Dalton Trumbo article, but someone needs to produce a legitimate rationale if it's to remain in this article. Binabik80 ( talk) 15:08, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
The term "quellazaire" was referenced to Urban Dictionary; Dictionary.com doesn't know the word. (Does a better reference exist?) - Mike Rosoft ( talk) 19:46, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
There was a commercial website linked as a source. I have removed this content, as sources affiliated with the subject of an article are not acceptable per wikipedia rules. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.210.67.137 ( talk) 04:24, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
I provided some sourced information regarding this aspect of the history of cigarette holders. The user "Kintetsubuffalo" has removed this source three times now without giving explanation. If he regards it as a dubious source, that is ironic in view of the fact that 75 percent of this article is now completely unsourced and the rest of it is sourced only by commercial links. So if there is some reason why you think the article should lose of its only serious source, maybe you will explain here. I won't restore the source until you've had your say. Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.210.67.137 ( talk) 05:58, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
Also, regarding your rudeness to me on this article's history page. You wrote that my legitimately-sourced contribution was 'dubious and unnecessary' and that I should 'go do something else'. Well, glancing down the article's history page, I can see that you've been lording over this article for five years now, and yet it's still largely an unsourced joke. For example, if you live in Japan, can't you provide a citation to support the claim that cigarette holders are an important part of Japanese fashion today? It appears that you are the one who is propping up dubious original research, my friend. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.210.67.137 ( talk) 07:03, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
update: as Kintetsubuffalo has made it clear both here and on his talk page that he is not interested in discussion, I will go ahead and restore this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.210.67.137 ( talk) 20:07, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
I've been prowling around a bit, and see a potential issue with listing people as they are in this article.
I'm not telling anyone what to do, but I think leaving things status quo is eventually going to lead to more problems, with the minial problem being an uninvolved editor swooping in and clearing the list, and touching off an unintentional edit war. LonelyBeacon ( talk) 07:44, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
(copied from ANI)
“ | There appears to be a wilful hoax at the article for the " Cigarette holder", concerning the words "and are still widely popular accessories in many aspects of Japanese fashion". No citation was ever given, and if I were to engage the services of the "Google" Internet search engine, with the words "Japanese cigarette holder", only some sixty-one (61) results would had been returned [1]. The hoax appears to had been started by the same person who has now reverted my "dubious" tag, at the possibly-restored version back in the year 2006 [2]..... — KC9TV 16:11, 6 June 2012 (UTC) | ” |
However, with regards to the topic of this thread, "hoax" is clearly the wrong template to use here, because that word has a very specific meaning in Wikipedia. That being said, the sentence from the article should be removed immediately, since it seems fairly clear that it copied Wikipedia, and thus there is no real source for the claim for them being fashion accessories in Japan. The claim is too fantastic to warrant inclusion without a good source. Qwyrxian ( talk) 02:26, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
Ignoring your personal comments and the assertion that women in Japan do not smoke cigarettes, what further are you seeking here? It's unlikely that you're going to have Kintetsbuffalo blocked based on your internet investigation and what I perceive to be your goal (that the claim about cigarette holders in Japan is removed) has been accomplished. After this kerfuffle, I strongly doubt that Kintetsbuffalo will try to reintroduce the content into the article without an WP:RS. Is there anything else that you would like to address? Chillllls ( talk) 15:17, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
I am already involved in this topic, and so can't act administratively; I'm also not currently blocking individuals per my own choice. Having said that, I will find an admin to block the next person who makes a single bloody comment about other editors. Cut it out. Now. Look, the more important point is this: is there even 1 person who thinks the sentence should remain? If I see no objections in about 48 hours, I will remove it from the article. Alright? Qwyrxian ( talk) 01:02, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
I've fully protected the article for a week, other admins are free to reverse without permission, just drop me a note afterwards. I would warn User:Kintetsubuffalo and User:99801155KC9TV on too many points to list. Throwing around the phrases "troll" and "vandal" for starters. I have no intention of getting involved in the discussion, and hope User:Moonriddengirl will continue to assist, and to lift protection when she felt it was needed. There is too much drama all around ANI, RFPP and and here regarding this article. Everyone go have a cup of tea and just discuss the article and sources, and keep personal observations out of it please. But if the incivility in summaries and other venues continues, sanctions are likely to follow. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 23:47, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
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This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Cigarette holder article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
|
67.166.42.66, my issue was not that you were trying to improve the article, but that you were both rude and removing important information. I can live with the wording, but I'm glad they've not made you an admin either. Chris 19:40, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
The top link doesn't come up dead for me, and the bottom link was originally spammed by someone, but it was discussed to leave it as it seems to grow into a forom for those interested. Chris 02:49, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
I am again reverting deletions by Sean Black, and have asked him to explain on the talk page first why these are "simply unacceptable". Nothing is ever so "simple" as to warrant unexplained deletions. If, as he maintains "a free image to illustrate this article would be trivial to locate", then he should do so. Chris 17:44, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
If it is fair use on smoking culture, then it should be fair use here, as they are both using it to show the sort of people who use cigarette holders. Franz-kafka 19:24, 28 April 2007 (UTC) Franz-kafka 21:47, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
Comes up with "forum removed...possible TOS violation".
Information, not advertising (or yellow advertising) please.
65.80.185.206 16:34, 8 April 2007 (UTC)We've been over this, y'all. External links *of value* are an enrichment, not a detriment. The commercial site has some nifty information including history (if and when I can get some verification for some of it I'll add it to the article, actually) and the "fetish" site has some amazing period photographs. I think both are more than reasonably valuable.
I am temporarily removing " actors Errol Flynn, Rudolph Valentino, Monty Woolley, Clark Gable, Laurence Harvey, Walter Pidgeon " from the text as it is becoming too male-centric. If anything, this is primarily a female phenomenon and the males are more the exception to the rule. If someone wants to compile a list of notables that smoke using holders, please do so. Chris 00:31, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
During the production of the original Planet of the Apes movies ( Planet of the Apes (1968 film), Beneath the Planet of the Apes, Escape from the Planet of the Apes, Conquest of the Planet of the Apes, and Battle for the Planet of the Apes) the actors who portrayed the apes would use long cigarette holders to smoke between takes, so as not to disturb their make-up (or set it on fire).
http://www.theforbidden-zone.com/info/trivia.shtml
The article should be editted to reflect this fact.
71.168.132.16 ( talk) 08:12, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
Other than for fashion, does a cigarette holder filter or anything? Does it make it safer to smoke the cigarette? (Though inhaling any amount of smoke and such into the body isn't healthy overall.) Coffee4binky ( talk) 18:21, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
I elaborated on the practical use portion. I have been using a cigarette holder for 20+ yrs, and have lots of knowledge, but some idiot keeps trying to delete it. He wants me to cite the portion, when I am in fact an informed person on this matter--therefore no citations are needed. I have a degree in Political Science and History, and am scholarly by nature. I wrote the section under my username: rocketpeacock. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.143.101.214 ( talk) 18:03, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
The picture of Cleo Trumbo is under copyright, and the fair use rationale for its appearance in this article rests on the bizarre claim that "cigarette holder" is a deceased person. Its use is perfectly well-justified in the Dalton Trumbo article, but someone needs to produce a legitimate rationale if it's to remain in this article. Binabik80 ( talk) 15:08, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
The term "quellazaire" was referenced to Urban Dictionary; Dictionary.com doesn't know the word. (Does a better reference exist?) - Mike Rosoft ( talk) 19:46, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
There was a commercial website linked as a source. I have removed this content, as sources affiliated with the subject of an article are not acceptable per wikipedia rules. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.210.67.137 ( talk) 04:24, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
I provided some sourced information regarding this aspect of the history of cigarette holders. The user "Kintetsubuffalo" has removed this source three times now without giving explanation. If he regards it as a dubious source, that is ironic in view of the fact that 75 percent of this article is now completely unsourced and the rest of it is sourced only by commercial links. So if there is some reason why you think the article should lose of its only serious source, maybe you will explain here. I won't restore the source until you've had your say. Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.210.67.137 ( talk) 05:58, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
Also, regarding your rudeness to me on this article's history page. You wrote that my legitimately-sourced contribution was 'dubious and unnecessary' and that I should 'go do something else'. Well, glancing down the article's history page, I can see that you've been lording over this article for five years now, and yet it's still largely an unsourced joke. For example, if you live in Japan, can't you provide a citation to support the claim that cigarette holders are an important part of Japanese fashion today? It appears that you are the one who is propping up dubious original research, my friend. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.210.67.137 ( talk) 07:03, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
update: as Kintetsubuffalo has made it clear both here and on his talk page that he is not interested in discussion, I will go ahead and restore this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.210.67.137 ( talk) 20:07, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
I've been prowling around a bit, and see a potential issue with listing people as they are in this article.
I'm not telling anyone what to do, but I think leaving things status quo is eventually going to lead to more problems, with the minial problem being an uninvolved editor swooping in and clearing the list, and touching off an unintentional edit war. LonelyBeacon ( talk) 07:44, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
(copied from ANI)
“ | There appears to be a wilful hoax at the article for the " Cigarette holder", concerning the words "and are still widely popular accessories in many aspects of Japanese fashion". No citation was ever given, and if I were to engage the services of the "Google" Internet search engine, with the words "Japanese cigarette holder", only some sixty-one (61) results would had been returned [1]. The hoax appears to had been started by the same person who has now reverted my "dubious" tag, at the possibly-restored version back in the year 2006 [2]..... — KC9TV 16:11, 6 June 2012 (UTC) | ” |
However, with regards to the topic of this thread, "hoax" is clearly the wrong template to use here, because that word has a very specific meaning in Wikipedia. That being said, the sentence from the article should be removed immediately, since it seems fairly clear that it copied Wikipedia, and thus there is no real source for the claim for them being fashion accessories in Japan. The claim is too fantastic to warrant inclusion without a good source. Qwyrxian ( talk) 02:26, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
Ignoring your personal comments and the assertion that women in Japan do not smoke cigarettes, what further are you seeking here? It's unlikely that you're going to have Kintetsbuffalo blocked based on your internet investigation and what I perceive to be your goal (that the claim about cigarette holders in Japan is removed) has been accomplished. After this kerfuffle, I strongly doubt that Kintetsbuffalo will try to reintroduce the content into the article without an WP:RS. Is there anything else that you would like to address? Chillllls ( talk) 15:17, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
I am already involved in this topic, and so can't act administratively; I'm also not currently blocking individuals per my own choice. Having said that, I will find an admin to block the next person who makes a single bloody comment about other editors. Cut it out. Now. Look, the more important point is this: is there even 1 person who thinks the sentence should remain? If I see no objections in about 48 hours, I will remove it from the article. Alright? Qwyrxian ( talk) 01:02, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
I've fully protected the article for a week, other admins are free to reverse without permission, just drop me a note afterwards. I would warn User:Kintetsubuffalo and User:99801155KC9TV on too many points to list. Throwing around the phrases "troll" and "vandal" for starters. I have no intention of getting involved in the discussion, and hope User:Moonriddengirl will continue to assist, and to lift protection when she felt it was needed. There is too much drama all around ANI, RFPP and and here regarding this article. Everyone go have a cup of tea and just discuss the article and sources, and keep personal observations out of it please. But if the incivility in summaries and other venues continues, sanctions are likely to follow. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 23:47, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 17:38, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 19:51, 7 August 2017 (UTC)