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...Qırq Or, which Russian historians mistransliterated from Qırq Yer, the authentic rendering from the Arabic script previously used by Crimean Tatars. (Edward A. Allworth, The Tatars of Crimea: Return to the Homeland, p.13 [1]) -- Тимур ( talk) 08:11, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
Marvellous place, really worth visiting. Vitaska ( talk) 20:47, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
It is claimed that the Crimean Karaites were the descendants of ancient Turkic-speaking Khazars. That seems logical. Because the Khazars were also Turkic speaking and were known to adopt Judaism ( at least the royal family) . However historians are spectical about it. Nedim Ardoğa ( talk) 12:01, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved per English-language common name. DrKiernan ( talk) 14:29, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
Juft Qale →
Chufut-Kale –
Until 1 October 2012, this article was called
Çufut Qale, but it was then moved to
Juft Qale without discussion. Modern English books on Crimean Karaites use the spelling:
Chufut Kale or
Chufut-Kale (for example: Philip Miller's Karaite Separatism in Nineteenth Century Russia, and Kevin Brooks' The Jews of Khazaria).
I did a Google Books search, which yielded
I propose moving the article to Chufut-Kale I do not really care whether it has a hyphen.-- Toddy1 ( talk) 05:14, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
Неполканов has made a suggestion at the Talk:Crimean Karaites#Chufut-Kale section. Can anyone explain what his point is there please? I used google translate but just want to be sure I understand the point first. Budo ( talk) 11:43, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
Of course Chufut Kale.Even Karaylar recently have decided that Juft Kale is problematic name see: http://kale.at.ua/news/o_nazvanii_nacionalnoj_svjatyni_krymskikh_karaimov_oficialno_imenuemoj_chufut_kale
" Крымские караимы всегда называли крепость «Кале», реже – «Чуфт Кале», «Чифт Кале» и «Джуфт Кале». На памятниках родового кладбища и в национальной литературе чаще упоминается «Кале», в устной речи – «Кале» и «Джуфт Кале». Старейшины предпочитают древний этноним «Кале». "
The background of the citing is the following: Karaylar do not like the name "Chufut Kale" meaning "Jewish Fortress",but it looks like there is no majority regarding the recently born Juft Kale claimed by some Karaylar to be ancient name.The exact translation is:
"Crimean Karaites always called the fortress "Kale", sometimes "Chuft Kale", "Chift Kale" and "Juft Kale". On the descent monuments and cemeteries in the national literature often refers to the "Kale", in oral speech - "Kale" and "Juft Kale". The elders prefer the ancient ethnonym "Kale".
My interpretation is that they have not found any written source,regarding "Juft Kale" name,beside post soviet publications of Karaylar authors only. 21:30, 4 October 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Неполканов ( talk • contribs)
I have read that a Neutral Point of view is very important on Wikipedia so I have tried to make this article more objective since it seems all mention of Krymchaks was omitted from the original version of this very biased article. The Ukrainian Government has officially recognised the Krymchak history and Crimean Karaites no-longer have free access to the area. There was a fear that evidence of Jewish life left by the Krymchaks was being destroyed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Krymchak Khan ( talk • contribs) 10:48, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
This article shows the Crimean Karaite are now restricted from free-use of the site. http://15minut.org/article/karaimov-snova-ne-puskajut-v-ih-svjatynju
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[To the] "Karaites [it was known as] '"Sela' ha-Yehudim [1] [2] ( Hebrew for 'Rock of the Jews')."
Very dubious. Did it really receive a Hebrew name? When and how? Was Hebrew more than a liturgic language for the Crimean Karaites? Also, the 2nd Russian source has "Села-Юхудим", so w/o "ha-" (and I cannot quite figure out the vowels), so not a perfect Hebrew genitive form, which means that the source is in part misquoted.
I doubt it very much that Karaites used place-names in perfect Hebrew in their daily life. Arminden ( talk) 10:02, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
References
Beim
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Chufut-Kale article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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...Qırq Or, which Russian historians mistransliterated from Qırq Yer, the authentic rendering from the Arabic script previously used by Crimean Tatars. (Edward A. Allworth, The Tatars of Crimea: Return to the Homeland, p.13 [1]) -- Тимур ( talk) 08:11, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
Marvellous place, really worth visiting. Vitaska ( talk) 20:47, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
It is claimed that the Crimean Karaites were the descendants of ancient Turkic-speaking Khazars. That seems logical. Because the Khazars were also Turkic speaking and were known to adopt Judaism ( at least the royal family) . However historians are spectical about it. Nedim Ardoğa ( talk) 12:01, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved per English-language common name. DrKiernan ( talk) 14:29, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
Juft Qale →
Chufut-Kale –
Until 1 October 2012, this article was called
Çufut Qale, but it was then moved to
Juft Qale without discussion. Modern English books on Crimean Karaites use the spelling:
Chufut Kale or
Chufut-Kale (for example: Philip Miller's Karaite Separatism in Nineteenth Century Russia, and Kevin Brooks' The Jews of Khazaria).
I did a Google Books search, which yielded
I propose moving the article to Chufut-Kale I do not really care whether it has a hyphen.-- Toddy1 ( talk) 05:14, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
Неполканов has made a suggestion at the Talk:Crimean Karaites#Chufut-Kale section. Can anyone explain what his point is there please? I used google translate but just want to be sure I understand the point first. Budo ( talk) 11:43, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
Of course Chufut Kale.Even Karaylar recently have decided that Juft Kale is problematic name see: http://kale.at.ua/news/o_nazvanii_nacionalnoj_svjatyni_krymskikh_karaimov_oficialno_imenuemoj_chufut_kale
" Крымские караимы всегда называли крепость «Кале», реже – «Чуфт Кале», «Чифт Кале» и «Джуфт Кале». На памятниках родового кладбища и в национальной литературе чаще упоминается «Кале», в устной речи – «Кале» и «Джуфт Кале». Старейшины предпочитают древний этноним «Кале». "
The background of the citing is the following: Karaylar do not like the name "Chufut Kale" meaning "Jewish Fortress",but it looks like there is no majority regarding the recently born Juft Kale claimed by some Karaylar to be ancient name.The exact translation is:
"Crimean Karaites always called the fortress "Kale", sometimes "Chuft Kale", "Chift Kale" and "Juft Kale". On the descent monuments and cemeteries in the national literature often refers to the "Kale", in oral speech - "Kale" and "Juft Kale". The elders prefer the ancient ethnonym "Kale".
My interpretation is that they have not found any written source,regarding "Juft Kale" name,beside post soviet publications of Karaylar authors only. 21:30, 4 October 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Неполканов ( talk • contribs)
I have read that a Neutral Point of view is very important on Wikipedia so I have tried to make this article more objective since it seems all mention of Krymchaks was omitted from the original version of this very biased article. The Ukrainian Government has officially recognised the Krymchak history and Crimean Karaites no-longer have free access to the area. There was a fear that evidence of Jewish life left by the Krymchaks was being destroyed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Krymchak Khan ( talk • contribs) 10:48, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
This article shows the Crimean Karaite are now restricted from free-use of the site. http://15minut.org/article/karaimov-snova-ne-puskajut-v-ih-svjatynju
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 06:03, 7 August 2017 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 21:09, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
[To the] "Karaites [it was known as] '"Sela' ha-Yehudim [1] [2] ( Hebrew for 'Rock of the Jews')."
Very dubious. Did it really receive a Hebrew name? When and how? Was Hebrew more than a liturgic language for the Crimean Karaites? Also, the 2nd Russian source has "Села-Юхудим", so w/o "ha-" (and I cannot quite figure out the vowels), so not a perfect Hebrew genitive form, which means that the source is in part misquoted.
I doubt it very much that Karaites used place-names in perfect Hebrew in their daily life. Arminden ( talk) 10:02, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
References
Beim
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).