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Sentence deleted from article without comment. I will add it back and look for discussion on talk page.
Can we add the below sentence to this article. We can use the writing or Richard Abanes for a start to support this. "Missler through his newsletters became a conduit between conservative evangelicals and the anti-government, militia activists, some of whom were white supremacist."
Rebellion, Racism, and Religion: AMERICAN MILITIAS Richard Abanes, 1996 pp. 199-202 |
Chuck Missler: Friend of Patriots Chuck Missler is the founder of Koinonia House, a conservative Christian ministry based in Coeur d’Alene, Idaho. He gained popularity with mainstream Christians primarily through his close affiliation with the California-based Calvary Chapel system of churches founded by evangelist Chuck Smith. Although Missler has had his own ministry for many years, he continues to teach regularly at Calvary Chapels nationwide. Missler is a major bridge between Christianity and the patriot/militia movement. His Personal Update newsletter has carried several articles promoting New - World Order conspiratorial theories. In the July 1995 issue of Personal Update, he suggests that the government blew up the Alfred P. Murrah building in Oklahoma City. He also condemns the government for launching “a highly orchestrated propaganda attack” against “talk radio, the pro-life movement, Constitutionalists, militias, pro-family groups, survivalists, and all forms of ‘politically incorrect’ views.” *’ Personal Update, like patriot publications, is brazenly anti-government. Missler believes America is no longer in a contest “between the Democrats and the Republicans but between the Constitutionalists who value our traditional heritage and the global socialists who are pursuing the dream of the New World Order. The conflict is between individual liberty and totalitarianism.” “Missler additionally contends that many of “the most knowledgeable” Bible commentators believe the Antichrist may be alive today. According to Missler, the demonic world leader will be even more deceitful “than the politicians who presently dominate the District of Corruption.” *’ This biting reference to Wash ington, D.C., officials is common among patriots. An article in Media Bypass, a popular patriot magazine, reads: “The mindset in the ‘District of Corruption’ appears appalled by the resentment of ‘we the people’ toward the federal government.” °° Patriot magazines are only one of the many sources from which Missler gleans his information. He claims to use “extensive contacts and private sources” to give a “behind-the-scenes perspective of the major issues.”°' Unfortunately, some of his sources are tied directly to the white supremacist movement. In the November 1995 issue of Personal Update, Missler not only quotes from but expresses thanks to and gives the address of the “American Patriot Fax Network. . . and ‘The Spotlight.’ ”* The American Patriot Fax Network (currently operated by Ken Varden of Las Vegas) was co-founded by Gary Hunt, a shadowy figure whose name first surfaced during the Davidian siege when he showed up in Waco claiming to hold Koresh’s power of attorney. He said he had observed an allegedly “ pre-arranged signal from the Branch Davidian leader—a jiggle of the compound's satellite dish.”°* Hunt was ignored by both law enforcement authorities and the courts. According to Linda Thompson, Hunt’s network began when he started faxing 200 American Militias information to her, Ken Varden and a Florida couple named Lynda Lyon and George Sibley.** The network soon became connected to numerous fax “news” services run by tax protesters, white supremacists and Christian Identity believers.°> It has since branched out to include non-racist patriots and Christians such as Missler. A steady stream of moderate to blatantly racist/anti-Semitic materials are regularly faxed to everyone on the network.It is noteworthy that approximately a year after Hunt’s network began, forty-five-year-old Lynda Lyon and fifty-one year-old George Sibley were arrested and subsequently convicted in the death of thirty-eight-year-old Alabama policeman Roger Motley. °’ The white supremacist couple shot and killed Motley in a shopping center parking lot when he approached their car.** After the shooting, Lyon and Sibley “led police on a high-speed chase and held law enforcement sharpshooters at bay for more than four hours before surrendering at a road block.”*’ Their vehicle contained three handguns, two semi-automatic rifles and an M-14 rifle. In the couple’s Orlando home, police found a large cache of weapons, ammunition and white supremacist literature. At their Georgia “safe house,” authorities seized an M-1 rifle that had been converted into a fully automatic weapon, a riot shotgun and 5,000 rounds of ammunition. The day after Motley was killed, Hunt sent out the following message over his fax network: Many of those in the Patriot Community fully expect that a state of war will exist in this country in a relatively short period of time. George and Lynda . . . felt that this state of war existed.°! For several weeks, Hunt used the network to send a series of faxes about the incident. His version of the killing perfectly illustrates the danger now facing non-patriots in this country, especially those in law enforcement: A cop comes up to the car and they know that they have a car full of guns. . . . Without time to contemplate a better solution, they reacted as the Branch Davidians should have reacted. I know that it is politically correct to condemn George and Lynda, but I cannot, and will not. I can only fear for them and fear for our country. . . . George had been sitting in his car. . . . Lynda was making a phone call. . . . The officer refused to listen to George explain that he was under no contract as a free Citizen of Florida, to have to produce a (drivers) license in Alabama. The officer then informed George . . . that he was under arrest. George got out of his car, and then began balking. The officer reached for his gun but George was a bit quicker. George and Lynda were defending their rights as guaranteed by the Constitution, and did not allow the officer to deny them their freedom. George and Lynda’s actions were to deny “law enforcement” from stealing your rights to travel freely in this country.” A 1995 Los Angeles Times investigation found that several racist organizations belong to the American Patriot Fax Network.” Members who supply and receive information through the network include: Arizona Patriots, a militant Christian Infiltration of Hate 201 Identity group; Guardians of American Liberty (GOAL), led by Stewart Webb, who from the mid-1980s and into the 1990s “made a series of threatening anti-Semitic phone calls” ;* and James Wickstrom, a Posse Comitatus leader, who in 1984 was convicted “on two counts of impersonating a public official and one count of bail jumping.” © Missler’s use of information from the Spotlight, and his recommendation of it as a news source, is even more disturbing. Besides being unreliable, Spotlight is notorious for its racist articles and advertisements. It would be difficult for Missler to not notice the blatant anti-Semitism that is regularly featured in its pages. A survey of Spotlight stories from January 1994 through June 1995 reveals that the paper’s main purpose is not only to propagate New World Order conspiracy theories, but also to link them to anti-Semitic ideas. The number of articles found on relevant topics are as follows:™ O New World Order: 75 Anti-Israel: 50 Concentration Camps, FEMA, black helicopters: 49 International Jewish bankers: 40 Anti-Black or Pro-Apartheid: 28 Pro-militia: 26 Foreign troops on U.S. soil: 24 Jewish holocaust denial: 13 It is odd that Missler, who professes to be pro-Israel, would read Spotlight, a publication of the quasi-Nazi Liberty Lobby founded by Willis Carto, whose history of anti-Semitism dates back as far as 1960 when he edited a publication “calling for voter support for the American Nazi Party.”®’ According to a 1994 article in Covert Action Quarterly, a widely respected investigative magazine, Carto’s Liberty Lobby “is the major source of anti-Semitic propaganda in the United States.” : Missler seems to have fallen into a trap laid long ago by Carto. According to Louis T. Beyers, a former associate of Carto’s, the Liberty Lobby’s plan is to draw support from non-racists as a means of strengthening anti-government ranks: “Willis has talked to me about playing the role of a respectable conservative when his true feelings are those of a racist nationalist.”® Beyers also maintains that Carto’s ultimate aim is “to form a new power base ready to act when the country turned hard right.” ’ Carto has set up a number of front organizations to pull off ei Been ee his scheme: To draw the support of those whose political beliefs might not include hatred for Jews, it [Liberty Lobby] has established an array of front groups, surrogates, and publications. These enterprises have not so much expanded the Lobby’s influence as made it seem to represent a vast constituency. Among the groups sponsored by the Lobby over the past 30 years, have been (in no particular order): Americans for National Security, American Committee on Immigration 202 American Militias Policies, United Republicans of America, Committee for Religious Development, Friends of Rhodesian Independence, Action Associates, Youth for Wallace, National Youth Alliance, Save Our Schools, Emergency Committee to Support Victims of Political Persecution, National Taxation, Inc., and Council on Dangerous Drugs.” To understand the level of anti-Semitism being promoted by the Liberty Lobby and Spotlight, one need only look to the philosophy of Willis Carto. In a 1955 letter to Earnest Sevier Cox, Carto boldly identified America’s main enemy: Who is calling the shots? History supplies the answer. . . . History plainly tells us who our Enemy is. Our Enemy today is the same Enemy of 50 years ago and before—and that was before Communism. . . . The Jews came first and remain Public Enemy Number One. . . . Hitler’s defeat was the defeat of Europe. And America. How could we have been so blind?” Ina letter to the Aryan Nations, a new supporter of the racist organization expressed interest in learning more about the white supremacy movement based on a a neo-Nazi advertisement he had seen in Spotlight.” Now Spotlight is being advertised in Chuck Missler’s Personal Update. This is precisely how racist conspiracy theories are gaining acceptance in mainstream Christian circles. |
This link is to a video - supposedly of Missler - talking about spontaneous generation in peanut butter. Peanut Butter First, he is disputing evolution. Unfortunately for him, the origin of life is not addressed by the Theory of Natural Selection, which is what is generally meant by the word "evolution." Second, I don't believe that there are any theories on the origin of life that state that anything living can be synthesized from peanut butter whether you call it "Matter" or not. This is simply rubbish. It does not rise to the level of a point of view, neutral or not, because ignorance is just not a point of view. If it were, Wikipedia wouldn't have editors. b_calder 16:52, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
I don't agree. It's such a minor thing, a passing meme that will be forgotten in a couple of weeks. It didn't garner particularly wide notice, did it? (A mention on Pandagon doesn't really count in this context.) And it's not particularly in keeping with our policies to turn articles on guys like this into "look at this fundy nutter" fests. Grace Note 01:56, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
<undent> It's a redirect. Find verification of the subject's notability from reliable third party sources and you'll have sumething to build an article on. Preferably provide the sources for discussion here first. Allegations of fraud in a self-published source don't cut it. . 00:26, 19 January 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dave souza ( talk • contribs)
JamesMLane has reverted the redirect with the edit summary: "redirecting as nn is improper when the article has survived AfD". I would point out that:
Unless anybody can come up with a strong countervailing argument, it is my intention to restore the redirection.
Hrafn
Talk
Stalk
08:09, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
#"If you think Missler is nonnotable, you should list the article on AfD on that basis." No! An AfD is not required for a redirect. And, even when the consensus is for redirect, it is not uncommon for the closing admin to kick the issue back to article talk as a 'keep (as in not-delete), you settle the rest yourselves as it doesn't require Admin involvement'.
Hrafn
Talk
Stalk 10:15, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
I would further point out that the cited sources do not establish Missler's notability as "an author" (other than as a plagiarist), "conservative Bible teacher", "founder of the Koinonia House ministry", "former businessman", "minister" or "biblical fundamentalist". So unless we change the lead to read "Charles "Chuck" Missler is a plagiarist", there is no notability established here (
WP:ONEEVENT or not).
Hrafn
Talk
Stalk
10:31, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
#The guideline applying to redirects is
WP:REDIRECT. Please note that this guideline makes no mention of an AfD being needed.
Now that I have completely demolished your 'AfD first' argument, do you have any
WP:RSes demonstrating
WP:Notability beyond
WP:ONEEVENT? If not, then I'll return the redirect. If you still object to this, then I suggest that the appropriate forum is
WP:BLP/N (as
WP:ONEEVENT is part of
WP:BLP).
Hrafn
Talk
Stalk
12:25, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
"Do you have any other ideas?" Yes!
You can read the following passage which you have repeatedly failed to address from
WP:AFD:
For problems that do not require deletion, including duplicate articles, articles needing improvement, pages needing redirects, or POV problems, be bold and fix the problem or tag the article appropriately.
This is what I did. My actions therefore are NOT "contravening our established process". I was doing exactly what the relevant policy exhorts us to do as an "appropriate" and "efficient alternative" to listing the article as an AfD.
Hrafn
Talk
Stalk 11:07, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
I would further point out that throughout the above you have never cited a specific (page and section please) policy (or set of policies) that my initial redirect violated. You complaints have ubiquitously been based upon vague and nebulous claims about "established process" and similar -- without citing the policies that establish the specific "process" that I am purported to have violated. This will make it rather difficult for you to report me to
WP:AN/I -- as you have no policy basis for a complaint.
Hrafn
Talk
Stalk
11:52, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
#I have been ignoring much of what you have said because you have been raising unsubstantiated irrelevancies.
As
WP:AFD explicitly supports my position, I think this matter is closed. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Hrafn (
talk •
contribs) 17:35, 15 January 2009
[Material attempting to argue that an AfD is required for redirects, in direct contradiction to
WP:AFD which states "Consider making the page a useful redirect or proposing it be merged rather than deleted. Neither of these actions requires an AfD." It has therefore been userfied to
User talk:JamesMLane per
WP:TALK#Others' comments "Deleting material not relevant to improving the article".
Hrafn
Talk
Stalk
03:26, 18 January 2009 (UTC) ]
In that case, I'm striking my side of this discussion in its entirety and letting JamesMLane's vacuous "position" stand in lone opposition to this simple statement of policy:
Consider making the page a useful redirect or proposing it be merged rather than deleted. Neither of these actions requires an AfD.
— WP:AFD
Hrafn Talk Stalk 02:53, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
Reasons for deletion include ... Articles whose subject fails to meet the relevant notability guideline....
For problems that do not require deletion, including duplicate articles, articles needing improvement, pages needing redirects, or POV problems, be bold and fix the problem or tag the article appropriately.
— WP:AFD
All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players: they have their exits and their entrances; and one man in his time plays many parts...
— As You Like It, Act II, Scene 7, 139–42
Hi. I just happened by and thought I'd offer an opinion. First of all, Hrafn is correct that a page can be redirected without an AfD. Also, it is not entirely correct for JamesMLane to say that this page has "passed AfD". If you look at the above links to the two AfD discussions, the first one was a circus that was closed with no consensus, while the second was ruled "out of order" and closed early because it was initiated by a banned user. Secondly, the version that JamesMLane most recently tried to restore is a sorry excuse for a WP page (please excuse my language). It consists of an accusation of plagiarism and some lists of the subject's works. No way would that version pass AfD if it went there. But thirdly, digging more deeply, I see that the version that went through the previous AfD's and existed until December 2007 is this one, which has since been dismantled piece-by-piece by none other than Hrafn until reaching its current highly deletable status. That said, I can't say I actually disagree with Hrafn's actions along this line. The 2007 version of the article was very poorly sourced and quite questionable in its notability. There is no indication of any unrelated reliable source actually writing anything substantial about this subject, so it fails my WP:N test. Even the 2007 version might have failed AfD had it been sent there.
Overall, my conclusion is that I support the actions I have seen from Hrafn. -- BlueMoonlet ( t/ c) 05:54, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
As to JamesMLane's " this much content", I would point out that the vast majority of that "content" was unsourced and/or unreliably sourced. Hrafn Talk Stalk 03:12, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
Your "point"s are in fact utterly pointless. No doubt you will argumentum ad nauseam]] your WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT on this issue, as you did above on WP:AFD. To say I am neither interested nor impressed would be a massive understatement. Hrafn Talk Stalk 04:19, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
User:Hrafn's conduct at Chuck Missler and Talk:Chuck Missler is the subject of a request for assistance, posted at Wikipedia:Editor assistance/Requests#User:Hrafn. JamesMLane t c 22:54, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
<ri> JamesMLane, you appear to be confused. The article hasn't been deleted, a biographical stub which fails WP:V and WP:BLP has been made into a redirect. As B has pointed out above, there appear to be sources available to construct a proper article – if you'd put your effort into finding reliable sources and constructing a new article based on third party sources, you'd be there by now. . . dave souza, talk 09:10, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
Did anyone check out Google Scholar yet? Seems that lost in a sea of self-reference, there are a few (at least minor) third-party references. I'll maybe try to write a good article on him over the next week or so - I've rescued one good topic from the AfD dustbin, and I've had a soft spot for Chuck and his Nephilim theory for a couple years. AllGloryToTheHypnotoad ( talk) 21:03, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
I created this section to start listing potential sources for recreating the article from scratch. (Obviously, some of them, like his own book, don't establish notability, but they provide basic who what where facts that we can use to create an article.) Please add to it. Things that I think are important to cover - (1) more on his UFO views - the New York Times piece is just a "look at the funny UFOers" bit rather than a serious article on what he actually believes, (2) his Bible code views, (3) basic biographical facts like where and when he was born, dates for his various notable jobs, (4) something about K-House-- B ( talk) 01:15, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
The "Bought Western Digital" claim, if true, should be verifiable (only GoogleBooks sources are only for "former chairman of Western Digital Corporation" and are from the religion side, not the computer/corporate side). I think we should test such claims before accepting his autobiographical material as reliable. Hrafn Talk Stalk 03:57, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
As a source of sources, the Missler article on the "Calvary Chapel Wiki" might help by providing useful links. Despite its name, the wiki is not by Calvary Chapel, but appears to be the effort of an anonymous Christian critic of Calvary Chapel. JamesMLane t c 04:49, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
Just had a glance at Allies for Armageddon (which Dave just listed) on GoogleBooks -- Missler is mentioned in dozens of places, but the mentions are all maddeningly brief and/or oblique. Hrafn Talk Stalk 11:16, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
I've nominated the article for deletion again. The one source, besides the LA Times story, does not seem very notable to me for potentially harmful information on a living person. Steve Dufour ( talk) 19:23, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
Hrafn beat me to the revert, so I'll say here what I was going to say in my edit summary.
Yes, the peanut butter video attacks "evolution" by name, when it is really addressing abiogenesis. Conflating the two is commonly done in creationist circles. While annoying, I think it is pretty clear that this is a rhetorical device and does not demonstrate ignorance. Attacking the subject on this point is semantics and not worth our time. -- BlueMoonlet ( t/ c) 18:43, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
Redirects are working as of today - Porjo ( talk) 05:54, 15 March 2018 (UTC)
Hello, can someone help clean-up the redirects?
As of now, you can only come across this article on Missler through the search "Charles Missler". The problem with this is that Chuck Missler (same person) does not, and has not used his formal name "Charles" in anything printed--websites, authored books, or otherwise. Therefore, when someone searches for this subject under the name he actually uses (Chuck), nothing is to be found--one must search for "Charles Missler" to find this article. Please make it so that when one searches for "Chuck Missler", they are brought directly to the appropriate page. Thank you. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Italomex (
talk •
contribs)
05:49, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
After the IP reverted the description of Missler as conservative, I took another look at this article and realised that there had been unexplained deletions and some stuff from the talk page not added. I've mentioned that he is a Christian Zionist (and a well known one among the movement) with links to the Patriot Movement. I think something should be added about his views on aliens given the NYTimes article and this [14]. Dougweller ( talk) 14:20, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
Dougweller,
The second pillar of Wikipedia's five pillars [ [15]]states:
"Wikipedia has a neutral point of view"
This is the reason that the Chuck Missler comment was revised.
"Missler is a prominent Christian Zionist[6] with ties to the far right Patriot movement although he is described as neither racist nor anti-Semitic.[7] [8]"
This makes three definitive, incorrect, unsubstantiated, and libelous statements:
1. Christian Zionists are racist and anti-Semitic.
2. The "Patriot Movement" is racist and anti-Semitic.
3. It contains the pre-supposition that Chuck Missler would normally and naturally be assumed to be a racist anti-Semitic person, and is equivalent to someone saying:
"Although "X" is a minority, he is neither a rapist nor a thief."
This is clearly a racist bias, and contains the a hateful pre-supposition, that although the "X" does not possess the "Natural" tendencies of the group, the natural assumption should be that he would.
Obviously this is an offensive, slanderous, pointless statement which slanders three groups of people, as well as a living person, via the form of a back-handed "compliment". Further, there is no point (except bias) in characterizing the Patriot Movement as "far" right.
The other correction which you revised is a highly incomplete and innaccurate version of Chuck Missler's scientific case against evolution.
Missler's actual position is (very briefly, and vastly incomplete) position is summarized as follows:
Evolution is a violation of the second law of thermodynamics, the law of Entropy. Entropy states that things tend towards disorder. Examples: aging; the tendency of a clean house not to stay clean; the deterioration of new clothing into old clothing; the natural tendency of all machines, animals, batteries, solar systems, etc into disorder. In contrast to the laws of thermodynamics, evolution asserts that order will arise from disorder.
That evolutions depends on three innacurate assumptions: 1. Infinite. This number is a theoretical construct, and it does not exist in nature. Modern astrophysics (and notably Einstein) has determined that even space itself is finite.
2. Randomness. Again, this is a theorectical construct, as it does not exist in nature or reality. See Chaos Theory. "A billion monkeys with a billion typewriters will eventually produce the entire works of Shakespear (Evolution)" - Mash a keyboard for a while yourself. You will soon see that the result is indeed NOT random. Nor is the shape and structure in which salt crystals form - no matter how many times they form. Neither are the shape of bubbles and naturally occuring spheres random. Note: The attempt to try to generate truly random numbers is an ongoing and unconquered struggle for computer scientists.
3. Infinite time. Forever does not exist in the natural world. Modern science shows the world had a beginning (big bang), and that it will someday experience a "heat death". This validates the notion that the Universe has not been here "Forever". Further... Life on Earth, did NOT have an infinite amount of time to evolve. Assuming Earth is 6Bn years old, it is known that the first 2Bn years were sterile (the Earth was molten and had not cooled). Since that time, there have been only around 2.1 x 10^15 seconds in which terestrial life could have evolved. Missler then goes on to show the statistical probability of even a short one sentence line of text generated in morse code generating randomly (somewhere around one in 1.5x10^35). He expands this quite a bit as he shows the probability of a "random" string of base pairs (adenine (A) with thymine (T); guanine (G) with cytosine (C) in DNA; and thymine replaced by uracil (U) in RNA) is a multi-digit self-correcting digital code replicated millions of times over and over in rapid succession in even the simplest genetic string would be several billion orders of magnitude (of probability) greater than the afore mentioned 2.1 x 10^15 seconds timeframe in which evolutionists currently believe that life could conceivably have "randomly" formed.
Missler shows scientifically that there is no such thing as a "simple cell" (pre-requisite in modern evolution), and explains that evolution requires SPOTANEOUS evolution of hundreds of extremely complex inter-dependant systems without which an organism will die, and Missler shows also that it requires an automatic error-correcting manner of replicating a huge amount of data in fractions of a second in order to replicate. He also describes several animals and systems (the bombadier beetle which directs, produces, and controls a volatile controlled explosion is an excellent example) in which any evolutionary error in "natural selection" would have automatically resulted in the immediate death (and subsequent failure to reproduce - thereby denying the system any chance to perfect its system in the animal), and goes on to show how marvelously complex and biologically expensive systems such as the sonar of a dolphin offer absolutely zero genetic evolutionary advantages - and indeed are a significant burden - until the wholistically complete organ is at bare minimum rudimentarily functional. This tends to discount the notion of "trial and error" and mating/survival advantage being their source and cause.
Missler also goes on to show the FACT that many of the "Scientific" studies that evolution is based on are flawed. Ex: the study supposedly showing the generation of amino acids from lightening and naturally occuring hydrocarbons is manipulated by creating a protective atmosphere that did not and could not have existed. He also brings up the FACT that there are a great many intentional outright historic frauds in the search for "the missing link" http://www.google.com/search?q=Antropology%2C+anthropologic%2C+Frauds+&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=&oe= , many constructing an entire organism out of a single shard of solitary fragmented bone.
Etc etc etc. The "Life doesn't generate in a peanut butter jar is a proof that evolution does not exist" IS a statement which was made by Missler, but it is BY FAR not a summation of his position.
When it is stated as the essential basis and summation of Missler's argument - as it is on this page - it is instead a straw man argument, either by a person completely unfamiliar with Missler's actual position, or as an intentionally malicious mischaracterization intended to discredit him. Either way, this deserves to be ammended.—Preceding unsigned comment added by ThomasNast ( talk • contribs) 15:38, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
As such, the ONLY issue is if Missler's views are being honestly, neutrally, and fairly characterized. As I have shown, through a proponderous (admitedly with perhaps an OVER propondance of evidence) clearly they have not. On this basis, I ask that my revision making this a more NEUTRAL (less controversial and less detailed) description of Missler's views be left as I originally revised it.
FYI,. I deleted a para about Missler believing in ancient astronauts to a mere footlink in Nephilim, in doing so I sidelined 3 sources attached which may or may not be WP:RS. If they belong anywhere it'd be here, but I'm not adding them to a BLP I know nothing about. In ictu oculi ( talk) 06:23, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
We need to add content about his education - where he did undergrad and grad work. 71.212.60.44 ( talk) 06:59, 5 February 2014 (UTC)
Death announced on official twitter feed for Koinonia House https://twitter.com/KoinoniaHouse/status/991091090911514624 Date not given, but assumed to be 30 April, or 1 May if it happened during the night. The Timestamp is not shown in New Zealand time, which is where he died.
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Sentence deleted from article without comment. I will add it back and look for discussion on talk page.
Can we add the below sentence to this article. We can use the writing or Richard Abanes for a start to support this. "Missler through his newsletters became a conduit between conservative evangelicals and the anti-government, militia activists, some of whom were white supremacist."
Rebellion, Racism, and Religion: AMERICAN MILITIAS Richard Abanes, 1996 pp. 199-202 |
Chuck Missler: Friend of Patriots Chuck Missler is the founder of Koinonia House, a conservative Christian ministry based in Coeur d’Alene, Idaho. He gained popularity with mainstream Christians primarily through his close affiliation with the California-based Calvary Chapel system of churches founded by evangelist Chuck Smith. Although Missler has had his own ministry for many years, he continues to teach regularly at Calvary Chapels nationwide. Missler is a major bridge between Christianity and the patriot/militia movement. His Personal Update newsletter has carried several articles promoting New - World Order conspiratorial theories. In the July 1995 issue of Personal Update, he suggests that the government blew up the Alfred P. Murrah building in Oklahoma City. He also condemns the government for launching “a highly orchestrated propaganda attack” against “talk radio, the pro-life movement, Constitutionalists, militias, pro-family groups, survivalists, and all forms of ‘politically incorrect’ views.” *’ Personal Update, like patriot publications, is brazenly anti-government. Missler believes America is no longer in a contest “between the Democrats and the Republicans but between the Constitutionalists who value our traditional heritage and the global socialists who are pursuing the dream of the New World Order. The conflict is between individual liberty and totalitarianism.” “Missler additionally contends that many of “the most knowledgeable” Bible commentators believe the Antichrist may be alive today. According to Missler, the demonic world leader will be even more deceitful “than the politicians who presently dominate the District of Corruption.” *’ This biting reference to Wash ington, D.C., officials is common among patriots. An article in Media Bypass, a popular patriot magazine, reads: “The mindset in the ‘District of Corruption’ appears appalled by the resentment of ‘we the people’ toward the federal government.” °° Patriot magazines are only one of the many sources from which Missler gleans his information. He claims to use “extensive contacts and private sources” to give a “behind-the-scenes perspective of the major issues.”°' Unfortunately, some of his sources are tied directly to the white supremacist movement. In the November 1995 issue of Personal Update, Missler not only quotes from but expresses thanks to and gives the address of the “American Patriot Fax Network. . . and ‘The Spotlight.’ ”* The American Patriot Fax Network (currently operated by Ken Varden of Las Vegas) was co-founded by Gary Hunt, a shadowy figure whose name first surfaced during the Davidian siege when he showed up in Waco claiming to hold Koresh’s power of attorney. He said he had observed an allegedly “ pre-arranged signal from the Branch Davidian leader—a jiggle of the compound's satellite dish.”°* Hunt was ignored by both law enforcement authorities and the courts. According to Linda Thompson, Hunt’s network began when he started faxing 200 American Militias information to her, Ken Varden and a Florida couple named Lynda Lyon and George Sibley.** The network soon became connected to numerous fax “news” services run by tax protesters, white supremacists and Christian Identity believers.°> It has since branched out to include non-racist patriots and Christians such as Missler. A steady stream of moderate to blatantly racist/anti-Semitic materials are regularly faxed to everyone on the network.It is noteworthy that approximately a year after Hunt’s network began, forty-five-year-old Lynda Lyon and fifty-one year-old George Sibley were arrested and subsequently convicted in the death of thirty-eight-year-old Alabama policeman Roger Motley. °’ The white supremacist couple shot and killed Motley in a shopping center parking lot when he approached their car.** After the shooting, Lyon and Sibley “led police on a high-speed chase and held law enforcement sharpshooters at bay for more than four hours before surrendering at a road block.”*’ Their vehicle contained three handguns, two semi-automatic rifles and an M-14 rifle. In the couple’s Orlando home, police found a large cache of weapons, ammunition and white supremacist literature. At their Georgia “safe house,” authorities seized an M-1 rifle that had been converted into a fully automatic weapon, a riot shotgun and 5,000 rounds of ammunition. The day after Motley was killed, Hunt sent out the following message over his fax network: Many of those in the Patriot Community fully expect that a state of war will exist in this country in a relatively short period of time. George and Lynda . . . felt that this state of war existed.°! For several weeks, Hunt used the network to send a series of faxes about the incident. His version of the killing perfectly illustrates the danger now facing non-patriots in this country, especially those in law enforcement: A cop comes up to the car and they know that they have a car full of guns. . . . Without time to contemplate a better solution, they reacted as the Branch Davidians should have reacted. I know that it is politically correct to condemn George and Lynda, but I cannot, and will not. I can only fear for them and fear for our country. . . . George had been sitting in his car. . . . Lynda was making a phone call. . . . The officer refused to listen to George explain that he was under no contract as a free Citizen of Florida, to have to produce a (drivers) license in Alabama. The officer then informed George . . . that he was under arrest. George got out of his car, and then began balking. The officer reached for his gun but George was a bit quicker. George and Lynda were defending their rights as guaranteed by the Constitution, and did not allow the officer to deny them their freedom. George and Lynda’s actions were to deny “law enforcement” from stealing your rights to travel freely in this country.” A 1995 Los Angeles Times investigation found that several racist organizations belong to the American Patriot Fax Network.” Members who supply and receive information through the network include: Arizona Patriots, a militant Christian Infiltration of Hate 201 Identity group; Guardians of American Liberty (GOAL), led by Stewart Webb, who from the mid-1980s and into the 1990s “made a series of threatening anti-Semitic phone calls” ;* and James Wickstrom, a Posse Comitatus leader, who in 1984 was convicted “on two counts of impersonating a public official and one count of bail jumping.” © Missler’s use of information from the Spotlight, and his recommendation of it as a news source, is even more disturbing. Besides being unreliable, Spotlight is notorious for its racist articles and advertisements. It would be difficult for Missler to not notice the blatant anti-Semitism that is regularly featured in its pages. A survey of Spotlight stories from January 1994 through June 1995 reveals that the paper’s main purpose is not only to propagate New World Order conspiracy theories, but also to link them to anti-Semitic ideas. The number of articles found on relevant topics are as follows:™ O New World Order: 75 Anti-Israel: 50 Concentration Camps, FEMA, black helicopters: 49 International Jewish bankers: 40 Anti-Black or Pro-Apartheid: 28 Pro-militia: 26 Foreign troops on U.S. soil: 24 Jewish holocaust denial: 13 It is odd that Missler, who professes to be pro-Israel, would read Spotlight, a publication of the quasi-Nazi Liberty Lobby founded by Willis Carto, whose history of anti-Semitism dates back as far as 1960 when he edited a publication “calling for voter support for the American Nazi Party.”®’ According to a 1994 article in Covert Action Quarterly, a widely respected investigative magazine, Carto’s Liberty Lobby “is the major source of anti-Semitic propaganda in the United States.” : Missler seems to have fallen into a trap laid long ago by Carto. According to Louis T. Beyers, a former associate of Carto’s, the Liberty Lobby’s plan is to draw support from non-racists as a means of strengthening anti-government ranks: “Willis has talked to me about playing the role of a respectable conservative when his true feelings are those of a racist nationalist.”® Beyers also maintains that Carto’s ultimate aim is “to form a new power base ready to act when the country turned hard right.” ’ Carto has set up a number of front organizations to pull off ei Been ee his scheme: To draw the support of those whose political beliefs might not include hatred for Jews, it [Liberty Lobby] has established an array of front groups, surrogates, and publications. These enterprises have not so much expanded the Lobby’s influence as made it seem to represent a vast constituency. Among the groups sponsored by the Lobby over the past 30 years, have been (in no particular order): Americans for National Security, American Committee on Immigration 202 American Militias Policies, United Republicans of America, Committee for Religious Development, Friends of Rhodesian Independence, Action Associates, Youth for Wallace, National Youth Alliance, Save Our Schools, Emergency Committee to Support Victims of Political Persecution, National Taxation, Inc., and Council on Dangerous Drugs.” To understand the level of anti-Semitism being promoted by the Liberty Lobby and Spotlight, one need only look to the philosophy of Willis Carto. In a 1955 letter to Earnest Sevier Cox, Carto boldly identified America’s main enemy: Who is calling the shots? History supplies the answer. . . . History plainly tells us who our Enemy is. Our Enemy today is the same Enemy of 50 years ago and before—and that was before Communism. . . . The Jews came first and remain Public Enemy Number One. . . . Hitler’s defeat was the defeat of Europe. And America. How could we have been so blind?” Ina letter to the Aryan Nations, a new supporter of the racist organization expressed interest in learning more about the white supremacy movement based on a a neo-Nazi advertisement he had seen in Spotlight.” Now Spotlight is being advertised in Chuck Missler’s Personal Update. This is precisely how racist conspiracy theories are gaining acceptance in mainstream Christian circles. |
This link is to a video - supposedly of Missler - talking about spontaneous generation in peanut butter. Peanut Butter First, he is disputing evolution. Unfortunately for him, the origin of life is not addressed by the Theory of Natural Selection, which is what is generally meant by the word "evolution." Second, I don't believe that there are any theories on the origin of life that state that anything living can be synthesized from peanut butter whether you call it "Matter" or not. This is simply rubbish. It does not rise to the level of a point of view, neutral or not, because ignorance is just not a point of view. If it were, Wikipedia wouldn't have editors. b_calder 16:52, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
I don't agree. It's such a minor thing, a passing meme that will be forgotten in a couple of weeks. It didn't garner particularly wide notice, did it? (A mention on Pandagon doesn't really count in this context.) And it's not particularly in keeping with our policies to turn articles on guys like this into "look at this fundy nutter" fests. Grace Note 01:56, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
<undent> It's a redirect. Find verification of the subject's notability from reliable third party sources and you'll have sumething to build an article on. Preferably provide the sources for discussion here first. Allegations of fraud in a self-published source don't cut it. . 00:26, 19 January 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dave souza ( talk • contribs)
JamesMLane has reverted the redirect with the edit summary: "redirecting as nn is improper when the article has survived AfD". I would point out that:
Unless anybody can come up with a strong countervailing argument, it is my intention to restore the redirection.
Hrafn
Talk
Stalk
08:09, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
#"If you think Missler is nonnotable, you should list the article on AfD on that basis." No! An AfD is not required for a redirect. And, even when the consensus is for redirect, it is not uncommon for the closing admin to kick the issue back to article talk as a 'keep (as in not-delete), you settle the rest yourselves as it doesn't require Admin involvement'.
Hrafn
Talk
Stalk 10:15, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
I would further point out that the cited sources do not establish Missler's notability as "an author" (other than as a plagiarist), "conservative Bible teacher", "founder of the Koinonia House ministry", "former businessman", "minister" or "biblical fundamentalist". So unless we change the lead to read "Charles "Chuck" Missler is a plagiarist", there is no notability established here (
WP:ONEEVENT or not).
Hrafn
Talk
Stalk
10:31, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
#The guideline applying to redirects is
WP:REDIRECT. Please note that this guideline makes no mention of an AfD being needed.
Now that I have completely demolished your 'AfD first' argument, do you have any
WP:RSes demonstrating
WP:Notability beyond
WP:ONEEVENT? If not, then I'll return the redirect. If you still object to this, then I suggest that the appropriate forum is
WP:BLP/N (as
WP:ONEEVENT is part of
WP:BLP).
Hrafn
Talk
Stalk
12:25, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
"Do you have any other ideas?" Yes!
You can read the following passage which you have repeatedly failed to address from
WP:AFD:
For problems that do not require deletion, including duplicate articles, articles needing improvement, pages needing redirects, or POV problems, be bold and fix the problem or tag the article appropriately.
This is what I did. My actions therefore are NOT "contravening our established process". I was doing exactly what the relevant policy exhorts us to do as an "appropriate" and "efficient alternative" to listing the article as an AfD.
Hrafn
Talk
Stalk 11:07, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
I would further point out that throughout the above you have never cited a specific (page and section please) policy (or set of policies) that my initial redirect violated. You complaints have ubiquitously been based upon vague and nebulous claims about "established process" and similar -- without citing the policies that establish the specific "process" that I am purported to have violated. This will make it rather difficult for you to report me to
WP:AN/I -- as you have no policy basis for a complaint.
Hrafn
Talk
Stalk
11:52, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
#I have been ignoring much of what you have said because you have been raising unsubstantiated irrelevancies.
As
WP:AFD explicitly supports my position, I think this matter is closed. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Hrafn (
talk •
contribs) 17:35, 15 January 2009
[Material attempting to argue that an AfD is required for redirects, in direct contradiction to
WP:AFD which states "Consider making the page a useful redirect or proposing it be merged rather than deleted. Neither of these actions requires an AfD." It has therefore been userfied to
User talk:JamesMLane per
WP:TALK#Others' comments "Deleting material not relevant to improving the article".
Hrafn
Talk
Stalk
03:26, 18 January 2009 (UTC) ]
In that case, I'm striking my side of this discussion in its entirety and letting JamesMLane's vacuous "position" stand in lone opposition to this simple statement of policy:
Consider making the page a useful redirect or proposing it be merged rather than deleted. Neither of these actions requires an AfD.
— WP:AFD
Hrafn Talk Stalk 02:53, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
Reasons for deletion include ... Articles whose subject fails to meet the relevant notability guideline....
For problems that do not require deletion, including duplicate articles, articles needing improvement, pages needing redirects, or POV problems, be bold and fix the problem or tag the article appropriately.
— WP:AFD
All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players: they have their exits and their entrances; and one man in his time plays many parts...
— As You Like It, Act II, Scene 7, 139–42
Hi. I just happened by and thought I'd offer an opinion. First of all, Hrafn is correct that a page can be redirected without an AfD. Also, it is not entirely correct for JamesMLane to say that this page has "passed AfD". If you look at the above links to the two AfD discussions, the first one was a circus that was closed with no consensus, while the second was ruled "out of order" and closed early because it was initiated by a banned user. Secondly, the version that JamesMLane most recently tried to restore is a sorry excuse for a WP page (please excuse my language). It consists of an accusation of plagiarism and some lists of the subject's works. No way would that version pass AfD if it went there. But thirdly, digging more deeply, I see that the version that went through the previous AfD's and existed until December 2007 is this one, which has since been dismantled piece-by-piece by none other than Hrafn until reaching its current highly deletable status. That said, I can't say I actually disagree with Hrafn's actions along this line. The 2007 version of the article was very poorly sourced and quite questionable in its notability. There is no indication of any unrelated reliable source actually writing anything substantial about this subject, so it fails my WP:N test. Even the 2007 version might have failed AfD had it been sent there.
Overall, my conclusion is that I support the actions I have seen from Hrafn. -- BlueMoonlet ( t/ c) 05:54, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
As to JamesMLane's " this much content", I would point out that the vast majority of that "content" was unsourced and/or unreliably sourced. Hrafn Talk Stalk 03:12, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
Your "point"s are in fact utterly pointless. No doubt you will argumentum ad nauseam]] your WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT on this issue, as you did above on WP:AFD. To say I am neither interested nor impressed would be a massive understatement. Hrafn Talk Stalk 04:19, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
User:Hrafn's conduct at Chuck Missler and Talk:Chuck Missler is the subject of a request for assistance, posted at Wikipedia:Editor assistance/Requests#User:Hrafn. JamesMLane t c 22:54, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
<ri> JamesMLane, you appear to be confused. The article hasn't been deleted, a biographical stub which fails WP:V and WP:BLP has been made into a redirect. As B has pointed out above, there appear to be sources available to construct a proper article – if you'd put your effort into finding reliable sources and constructing a new article based on third party sources, you'd be there by now. . . dave souza, talk 09:10, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
Did anyone check out Google Scholar yet? Seems that lost in a sea of self-reference, there are a few (at least minor) third-party references. I'll maybe try to write a good article on him over the next week or so - I've rescued one good topic from the AfD dustbin, and I've had a soft spot for Chuck and his Nephilim theory for a couple years. AllGloryToTheHypnotoad ( talk) 21:03, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
I created this section to start listing potential sources for recreating the article from scratch. (Obviously, some of them, like his own book, don't establish notability, but they provide basic who what where facts that we can use to create an article.) Please add to it. Things that I think are important to cover - (1) more on his UFO views - the New York Times piece is just a "look at the funny UFOers" bit rather than a serious article on what he actually believes, (2) his Bible code views, (3) basic biographical facts like where and when he was born, dates for his various notable jobs, (4) something about K-House-- B ( talk) 01:15, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
The "Bought Western Digital" claim, if true, should be verifiable (only GoogleBooks sources are only for "former chairman of Western Digital Corporation" and are from the religion side, not the computer/corporate side). I think we should test such claims before accepting his autobiographical material as reliable. Hrafn Talk Stalk 03:57, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
As a source of sources, the Missler article on the "Calvary Chapel Wiki" might help by providing useful links. Despite its name, the wiki is not by Calvary Chapel, but appears to be the effort of an anonymous Christian critic of Calvary Chapel. JamesMLane t c 04:49, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
Just had a glance at Allies for Armageddon (which Dave just listed) on GoogleBooks -- Missler is mentioned in dozens of places, but the mentions are all maddeningly brief and/or oblique. Hrafn Talk Stalk 11:16, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
I've nominated the article for deletion again. The one source, besides the LA Times story, does not seem very notable to me for potentially harmful information on a living person. Steve Dufour ( talk) 19:23, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
Hrafn beat me to the revert, so I'll say here what I was going to say in my edit summary.
Yes, the peanut butter video attacks "evolution" by name, when it is really addressing abiogenesis. Conflating the two is commonly done in creationist circles. While annoying, I think it is pretty clear that this is a rhetorical device and does not demonstrate ignorance. Attacking the subject on this point is semantics and not worth our time. -- BlueMoonlet ( t/ c) 18:43, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
Redirects are working as of today - Porjo ( talk) 05:54, 15 March 2018 (UTC)
Hello, can someone help clean-up the redirects?
As of now, you can only come across this article on Missler through the search "Charles Missler". The problem with this is that Chuck Missler (same person) does not, and has not used his formal name "Charles" in anything printed--websites, authored books, or otherwise. Therefore, when someone searches for this subject under the name he actually uses (Chuck), nothing is to be found--one must search for "Charles Missler" to find this article. Please make it so that when one searches for "Chuck Missler", they are brought directly to the appropriate page. Thank you. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Italomex (
talk •
contribs)
05:49, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
After the IP reverted the description of Missler as conservative, I took another look at this article and realised that there had been unexplained deletions and some stuff from the talk page not added. I've mentioned that he is a Christian Zionist (and a well known one among the movement) with links to the Patriot Movement. I think something should be added about his views on aliens given the NYTimes article and this [14]. Dougweller ( talk) 14:20, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
Dougweller,
The second pillar of Wikipedia's five pillars [ [15]]states:
"Wikipedia has a neutral point of view"
This is the reason that the Chuck Missler comment was revised.
"Missler is a prominent Christian Zionist[6] with ties to the far right Patriot movement although he is described as neither racist nor anti-Semitic.[7] [8]"
This makes three definitive, incorrect, unsubstantiated, and libelous statements:
1. Christian Zionists are racist and anti-Semitic.
2. The "Patriot Movement" is racist and anti-Semitic.
3. It contains the pre-supposition that Chuck Missler would normally and naturally be assumed to be a racist anti-Semitic person, and is equivalent to someone saying:
"Although "X" is a minority, he is neither a rapist nor a thief."
This is clearly a racist bias, and contains the a hateful pre-supposition, that although the "X" does not possess the "Natural" tendencies of the group, the natural assumption should be that he would.
Obviously this is an offensive, slanderous, pointless statement which slanders three groups of people, as well as a living person, via the form of a back-handed "compliment". Further, there is no point (except bias) in characterizing the Patriot Movement as "far" right.
The other correction which you revised is a highly incomplete and innaccurate version of Chuck Missler's scientific case against evolution.
Missler's actual position is (very briefly, and vastly incomplete) position is summarized as follows:
Evolution is a violation of the second law of thermodynamics, the law of Entropy. Entropy states that things tend towards disorder. Examples: aging; the tendency of a clean house not to stay clean; the deterioration of new clothing into old clothing; the natural tendency of all machines, animals, batteries, solar systems, etc into disorder. In contrast to the laws of thermodynamics, evolution asserts that order will arise from disorder.
That evolutions depends on three innacurate assumptions: 1. Infinite. This number is a theoretical construct, and it does not exist in nature. Modern astrophysics (and notably Einstein) has determined that even space itself is finite.
2. Randomness. Again, this is a theorectical construct, as it does not exist in nature or reality. See Chaos Theory. "A billion monkeys with a billion typewriters will eventually produce the entire works of Shakespear (Evolution)" - Mash a keyboard for a while yourself. You will soon see that the result is indeed NOT random. Nor is the shape and structure in which salt crystals form - no matter how many times they form. Neither are the shape of bubbles and naturally occuring spheres random. Note: The attempt to try to generate truly random numbers is an ongoing and unconquered struggle for computer scientists.
3. Infinite time. Forever does not exist in the natural world. Modern science shows the world had a beginning (big bang), and that it will someday experience a "heat death". This validates the notion that the Universe has not been here "Forever". Further... Life on Earth, did NOT have an infinite amount of time to evolve. Assuming Earth is 6Bn years old, it is known that the first 2Bn years were sterile (the Earth was molten and had not cooled). Since that time, there have been only around 2.1 x 10^15 seconds in which terestrial life could have evolved. Missler then goes on to show the statistical probability of even a short one sentence line of text generated in morse code generating randomly (somewhere around one in 1.5x10^35). He expands this quite a bit as he shows the probability of a "random" string of base pairs (adenine (A) with thymine (T); guanine (G) with cytosine (C) in DNA; and thymine replaced by uracil (U) in RNA) is a multi-digit self-correcting digital code replicated millions of times over and over in rapid succession in even the simplest genetic string would be several billion orders of magnitude (of probability) greater than the afore mentioned 2.1 x 10^15 seconds timeframe in which evolutionists currently believe that life could conceivably have "randomly" formed.
Missler shows scientifically that there is no such thing as a "simple cell" (pre-requisite in modern evolution), and explains that evolution requires SPOTANEOUS evolution of hundreds of extremely complex inter-dependant systems without which an organism will die, and Missler shows also that it requires an automatic error-correcting manner of replicating a huge amount of data in fractions of a second in order to replicate. He also describes several animals and systems (the bombadier beetle which directs, produces, and controls a volatile controlled explosion is an excellent example) in which any evolutionary error in "natural selection" would have automatically resulted in the immediate death (and subsequent failure to reproduce - thereby denying the system any chance to perfect its system in the animal), and goes on to show how marvelously complex and biologically expensive systems such as the sonar of a dolphin offer absolutely zero genetic evolutionary advantages - and indeed are a significant burden - until the wholistically complete organ is at bare minimum rudimentarily functional. This tends to discount the notion of "trial and error" and mating/survival advantage being their source and cause.
Missler also goes on to show the FACT that many of the "Scientific" studies that evolution is based on are flawed. Ex: the study supposedly showing the generation of amino acids from lightening and naturally occuring hydrocarbons is manipulated by creating a protective atmosphere that did not and could not have existed. He also brings up the FACT that there are a great many intentional outright historic frauds in the search for "the missing link" http://www.google.com/search?q=Antropology%2C+anthropologic%2C+Frauds+&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=&oe= , many constructing an entire organism out of a single shard of solitary fragmented bone.
Etc etc etc. The "Life doesn't generate in a peanut butter jar is a proof that evolution does not exist" IS a statement which was made by Missler, but it is BY FAR not a summation of his position.
When it is stated as the essential basis and summation of Missler's argument - as it is on this page - it is instead a straw man argument, either by a person completely unfamiliar with Missler's actual position, or as an intentionally malicious mischaracterization intended to discredit him. Either way, this deserves to be ammended.—Preceding unsigned comment added by ThomasNast ( talk • contribs) 15:38, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
As such, the ONLY issue is if Missler's views are being honestly, neutrally, and fairly characterized. As I have shown, through a proponderous (admitedly with perhaps an OVER propondance of evidence) clearly they have not. On this basis, I ask that my revision making this a more NEUTRAL (less controversial and less detailed) description of Missler's views be left as I originally revised it.
FYI,. I deleted a para about Missler believing in ancient astronauts to a mere footlink in Nephilim, in doing so I sidelined 3 sources attached which may or may not be WP:RS. If they belong anywhere it'd be here, but I'm not adding them to a BLP I know nothing about. In ictu oculi ( talk) 06:23, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
We need to add content about his education - where he did undergrad and grad work. 71.212.60.44 ( talk) 06:59, 5 February 2014 (UTC)
Death announced on official twitter feed for Koinonia House https://twitter.com/KoinoniaHouse/status/991091090911514624 Date not given, but assumed to be 30 April, or 1 May if it happened during the night. The Timestamp is not shown in New Zealand time, which is where he died.