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I'm proposing that a number of chromatophore stubtype stubs be merged into this as a more comprehensive article. A number of issues - translocation, development, integrative function - are better served by explanation together than in individual articles. Rockpocket (talk) 17:35, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
Ok, I have read the article on request of Rockpocket. I am truly impressed by the amount of data, the many references and the knowledge of the editor(s) who wrote this. I tink the general sructure is a good one, although I think I would add a seperate section with the general lightbreaking/absorption/etc mechanisms so that people have an idea when you start talking about specifics. Each type than can be describe in detail. In each section, I would very carefully try to build it up from the obvious and general interesing towards the specific and specialist interesting. I have the feeling that at current, this is often mixed, which is perfectly okay for a specialist audience of biologists and chemists, but not for the general public. I think that this is tha main weakness of the article, in that it is not really accessable to a lay-audience. This will unfortunately require a major effort to get right, but I am sure that if that works, this article cn become a worthy featured article candidate. In this line, I would also try to resturcture the sentences somewhat, some of them are quite complex. For nice prose, that is not a requirement, I personally would even say, to the contrary. For questions on specific sections, sentences and wording, please bother me. -- Kim van der Linde at venus 04:32, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
As stated in the heading, this is nitpicking. Thank you for drawing my attention to a beautiful article. -- vibo56 18:27, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Compliments for your work. The article has been improved a lot again since the last time I looked at it.19:44, 21 January 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Viridiflavus ( talk • contribs)
To the editors who have been changing, or plan to change, colour to color: the article is currently consistant in its use of colour, it should remain that way per WP:MOS#National_varieties_of_English. Also, i notice the inevitable edits regarding the plural of octopus have begun. As the article on the subject states:
This source is consistant with opinion in the cephalopd community [1]. Hopefully this should save us all some reverting over the next 24 hours, but i doubt it. Rockpocke t 02:52, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
How refreshing to see a well-researched (and referenced) article about a non-fiction topic in the "Featured" spot. Great work! -- Mikeblas 06:58, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
Yes, fine work done on this article. Very appreciative reader. Christian Roess 15:36, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
Some of the terms used and the explanations for colour production in biological systems puzzle me. Different authors seem to use the same term to mean different things. I am unsure about an "authoritative source" for some of the terms, and of how things "fit together".
Whence Chromatophore?: Chromatophore is said to be derived from "chromoforo", yet the term chromophore generally refers to the color producing part of a molecule in a cell, not a whole cell. In the phytochrome article it even says says "phytochrome is a protein with a bilin chromophore". Phew! When did "-at-" come to mean a cell; rather, does that "-at-" mean anything?
Iridescence: What makes an an iridophore an "irido"-phore? Iridescence is defined in WP as an optical phenomenon characterized as the property of surfaces in which hue changes according to the angle from which the surface is viewed. In which case Rayleigh scattering, producing a Tyndall effect, should not produce iridescence as I understand it (the sky is uniformly, non-iridescent blue, the classic example of the Tyndall effect). A diffraction grating mechanism seems a more likely explanation for the shimmer effect. But then, is an iridophore necessarily iridescent? I assume that is what the name means, but in this field I cannot be sure...
I also came across a dutch site which adresses the matter concerning the blue color of birds plumage. I suppose it is not readable for you, but it contains a list of english reference articles. PS I was using and translating your article as a basis for a dutch article about chromatophores, when I noticed this mistake. The article as a whole serves as a good basis however for an article. My primary interest is in fish and I am busy photographing a bit of fish iris, scales etc. Maybe when I think it makes sense and I am satisfied I will add some pictures to the dutch page, which is still not ready. Keep up the good work! Viridiflavus 12:16, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
Cell or organ (or both): I am similarly unsure about the why chromatophore is defined as a cell at the beginning of the article, and then used to refer to something else further on. In the different contexts the word seems to refer either to a cell, a group of cells, or an organ. So, when unqualified, to which one of these does the term chromatophore "correctly" refer? In this regard, I have come across the terms iridophores (as a type of chromatophore), iridocytes and iridosomes used in a hierachical sense, e.g. "iridophores made up of irodocytes containing iridosomes". [1] I infer from this "a collection of cells" with "individual cells" having "specific organelles" inside them. Or are the terms iridophore and iridocyte interchangable? In cephalopods "chromatophore" seems to be routinely used to describe an organised collection of cells, e.g. "The chromatophore organs of Lohgo are each composed of five types of cells." [2] Of these 5 types of cells only one seems actually to change colour. This seems to mean that chromatophores are not necessarily "pigment-containing and light-reflecting cells", but should be referred to as "structures", or "organs", or "collections of cells". Or should one explain that there is a difference in the use of the word, depending on what is being described, or what qualifying term is used - "cell" or "organ"?
Leucophores not Chromatophores?: This beautiful illustration, adapted from Cloney and Brocco [2] carries the comment: "The leucophore reflects whatever color of light illuminates it. There is no color discrimination and no effect on the color by the angle of illumination. Under white light the leucophores appear to be white. The leucophores, therefore, simply produce scattered reflection of ambient light." And, reading futher, it seems as if leucophores are not simply a sort/class of chromophore, but a different thing: "The leucophores sometimes occur in dense patches that appear as white spots on the cephalopod when seen under white light and when not obscured by chromatophores." So do I deduce that leucophores are not chromatophores? And then why aren't they called leuc-at-ophores, with xanthophores being called xanth-at-ophores - by analogy with chomophore / chromatophore?
Why still Rayleigh?: For non-iridescent colours, should one not, in discussing the production of different colours, mention coherent scattering by the mechanism of constructive interference [3] as an alternative explantion for colour production (vs Rayleigh / Tyndall, which seems these days to be less popular an explanation [4]) ? Though the work using Fourier analysis [5] is to date mostly with birds and mammals, it seems to be overturning much of the previous theory about structural colours - and chromatophores are being studied in this way.
-- Seejyb 21:32, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
Another possible concept problem for this article! In the eyes of many vertebrates, the choroid includes a reflective tissue layer that, as far as I can make out, consists of leucophores. The problem is that they are not called leucophores. In fact, they don't seem to have any specific name, getting by with "tapetal cell" etc. At present, the article says the leucophore, is found in some fish, particularly in the tapetum lucidum; well, if tapeta lucida have leucophores in a fish, then surely they have them also in the many other vertebrates with tapeta lucida. -- Una Smith ( talk) 05:23, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
The first sentence says chromatophores are organelles, but the rest of the article says they are cells. This should be checked. Also, in Italian the word proposed by Sangiovanni is spelled cromoforo (see the reference), not chromoforo.-- Miguelferig ( talk) 00:09, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
This is a 2006 promotion (which has finally come up at WP:URFA). To avoid a Featured article review and bring this article to current standards, inline citations are needed on many statements-- I don't want to deface the article with cn tags, so hopefully this can be done without the need for a FAR. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 19:42, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
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Chromatophore is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed. | ||||||||||||||||
This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on July 30, 2006. | ||||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
Current status: Former featured article |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I'm proposing that a number of chromatophore stubtype stubs be merged into this as a more comprehensive article. A number of issues - translocation, development, integrative function - are better served by explanation together than in individual articles. Rockpocket (talk) 17:35, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
Ok, I have read the article on request of Rockpocket. I am truly impressed by the amount of data, the many references and the knowledge of the editor(s) who wrote this. I tink the general sructure is a good one, although I think I would add a seperate section with the general lightbreaking/absorption/etc mechanisms so that people have an idea when you start talking about specifics. Each type than can be describe in detail. In each section, I would very carefully try to build it up from the obvious and general interesing towards the specific and specialist interesting. I have the feeling that at current, this is often mixed, which is perfectly okay for a specialist audience of biologists and chemists, but not for the general public. I think that this is tha main weakness of the article, in that it is not really accessable to a lay-audience. This will unfortunately require a major effort to get right, but I am sure that if that works, this article cn become a worthy featured article candidate. In this line, I would also try to resturcture the sentences somewhat, some of them are quite complex. For nice prose, that is not a requirement, I personally would even say, to the contrary. For questions on specific sections, sentences and wording, please bother me. -- Kim van der Linde at venus 04:32, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
As stated in the heading, this is nitpicking. Thank you for drawing my attention to a beautiful article. -- vibo56 18:27, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Compliments for your work. The article has been improved a lot again since the last time I looked at it.19:44, 21 January 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Viridiflavus ( talk • contribs)
To the editors who have been changing, or plan to change, colour to color: the article is currently consistant in its use of colour, it should remain that way per WP:MOS#National_varieties_of_English. Also, i notice the inevitable edits regarding the plural of octopus have begun. As the article on the subject states:
This source is consistant with opinion in the cephalopd community [1]. Hopefully this should save us all some reverting over the next 24 hours, but i doubt it. Rockpocke t 02:52, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
How refreshing to see a well-researched (and referenced) article about a non-fiction topic in the "Featured" spot. Great work! -- Mikeblas 06:58, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
Yes, fine work done on this article. Very appreciative reader. Christian Roess 15:36, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
Some of the terms used and the explanations for colour production in biological systems puzzle me. Different authors seem to use the same term to mean different things. I am unsure about an "authoritative source" for some of the terms, and of how things "fit together".
Whence Chromatophore?: Chromatophore is said to be derived from "chromoforo", yet the term chromophore generally refers to the color producing part of a molecule in a cell, not a whole cell. In the phytochrome article it even says says "phytochrome is a protein with a bilin chromophore". Phew! When did "-at-" come to mean a cell; rather, does that "-at-" mean anything?
Iridescence: What makes an an iridophore an "irido"-phore? Iridescence is defined in WP as an optical phenomenon characterized as the property of surfaces in which hue changes according to the angle from which the surface is viewed. In which case Rayleigh scattering, producing a Tyndall effect, should not produce iridescence as I understand it (the sky is uniformly, non-iridescent blue, the classic example of the Tyndall effect). A diffraction grating mechanism seems a more likely explanation for the shimmer effect. But then, is an iridophore necessarily iridescent? I assume that is what the name means, but in this field I cannot be sure...
I also came across a dutch site which adresses the matter concerning the blue color of birds plumage. I suppose it is not readable for you, but it contains a list of english reference articles. PS I was using and translating your article as a basis for a dutch article about chromatophores, when I noticed this mistake. The article as a whole serves as a good basis however for an article. My primary interest is in fish and I am busy photographing a bit of fish iris, scales etc. Maybe when I think it makes sense and I am satisfied I will add some pictures to the dutch page, which is still not ready. Keep up the good work! Viridiflavus 12:16, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
Cell or organ (or both): I am similarly unsure about the why chromatophore is defined as a cell at the beginning of the article, and then used to refer to something else further on. In the different contexts the word seems to refer either to a cell, a group of cells, or an organ. So, when unqualified, to which one of these does the term chromatophore "correctly" refer? In this regard, I have come across the terms iridophores (as a type of chromatophore), iridocytes and iridosomes used in a hierachical sense, e.g. "iridophores made up of irodocytes containing iridosomes". [1] I infer from this "a collection of cells" with "individual cells" having "specific organelles" inside them. Or are the terms iridophore and iridocyte interchangable? In cephalopods "chromatophore" seems to be routinely used to describe an organised collection of cells, e.g. "The chromatophore organs of Lohgo are each composed of five types of cells." [2] Of these 5 types of cells only one seems actually to change colour. This seems to mean that chromatophores are not necessarily "pigment-containing and light-reflecting cells", but should be referred to as "structures", or "organs", or "collections of cells". Or should one explain that there is a difference in the use of the word, depending on what is being described, or what qualifying term is used - "cell" or "organ"?
Leucophores not Chromatophores?: This beautiful illustration, adapted from Cloney and Brocco [2] carries the comment: "The leucophore reflects whatever color of light illuminates it. There is no color discrimination and no effect on the color by the angle of illumination. Under white light the leucophores appear to be white. The leucophores, therefore, simply produce scattered reflection of ambient light." And, reading futher, it seems as if leucophores are not simply a sort/class of chromophore, but a different thing: "The leucophores sometimes occur in dense patches that appear as white spots on the cephalopod when seen under white light and when not obscured by chromatophores." So do I deduce that leucophores are not chromatophores? And then why aren't they called leuc-at-ophores, with xanthophores being called xanth-at-ophores - by analogy with chomophore / chromatophore?
Why still Rayleigh?: For non-iridescent colours, should one not, in discussing the production of different colours, mention coherent scattering by the mechanism of constructive interference [3] as an alternative explantion for colour production (vs Rayleigh / Tyndall, which seems these days to be less popular an explanation [4]) ? Though the work using Fourier analysis [5] is to date mostly with birds and mammals, it seems to be overturning much of the previous theory about structural colours - and chromatophores are being studied in this way.
-- Seejyb 21:32, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
Another possible concept problem for this article! In the eyes of many vertebrates, the choroid includes a reflective tissue layer that, as far as I can make out, consists of leucophores. The problem is that they are not called leucophores. In fact, they don't seem to have any specific name, getting by with "tapetal cell" etc. At present, the article says the leucophore, is found in some fish, particularly in the tapetum lucidum; well, if tapeta lucida have leucophores in a fish, then surely they have them also in the many other vertebrates with tapeta lucida. -- Una Smith ( talk) 05:23, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
The first sentence says chromatophores are organelles, but the rest of the article says they are cells. This should be checked. Also, in Italian the word proposed by Sangiovanni is spelled cromoforo (see the reference), not chromoforo.-- Miguelferig ( talk) 00:09, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
This is a 2006 promotion (which has finally come up at WP:URFA). To avoid a Featured article review and bring this article to current standards, inline citations are needed on many statements-- I don't want to deface the article with cn tags, so hopefully this can be done without the need for a FAR. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 19:42, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
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