![]() | Christianization was nominated as a History good article, but it did not meet the good article criteria at the time (August 3, 2023, reviewed version). There are suggestions on the review page for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated. |
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Reviewer: Willbb234 ( talk · contribs) 20:00, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
Hello. I've read through a lot of the article and assessed some of the sources and have come to the conclusion that the article fails the criteria. Please be aware that I have taken plenty of time to consider my decision and it's a decision I have not taken lightly. Please allow me to explain.
The lede needs some quite significant work to meet the readability standards. The first sentence is written like a dictionary definition - this is not standard in an encyclopedia article. I don't see what was wrong with the first sentence in this version of the article?
Christianization (or Christianisation) was the conversion of societies to Christianity beginning in late antiquity in the Roman Empire and continuing through the Late Middle Ages in Europe.But conversion did not begin in late antique Rome, it began in the first century in Palestine, and it did not simply continue into Late Middle Ages in Europe, it continues into our present day around the world. I can say that if you prefer it and move the definition down into the body instead. I'll give that a go and you can see if you think it's better. Jenhawk777 ( talk) 23:26, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
For nations, this has historically been associated with missions and missionaries, and is therefore called the mission period, but I see no mention of a "mission period" in the cited source, at least not in p.57 as it is claimed.
The convert's way of life begins to transform.. The sources states that the way of life of the community changes (emphasis mine). It's important to make this distinction.
During this stage, Christianization establishes schools and spreads education, translates Christian writings to local languages, often developing a script to do so, thereby creating the first literature of what had been a pre-literate cultureI read through pages 87 and 88 of the cited source [1] and I encountered multiple issues:
In reality, Javanese people did not give much attention to the teachings of Christianityand so attempting to claim that this is part of a successful Christianisation process is difficult.
many scholars use the terms inculturation and acculturation instead, the source actually states
Frequently, instead of that concept, the terms inculturation and acculturation are employed. Nothing about 'scholars' or 'many' of them.
has led contemporary scholars to write that its traditional definition can only be used when both societies involved in exchange have some autonomyagain, the source does not mention 'contemporary scholars' in the referenced pages.
there were anti-sacrifice laws, but they were not enforced. Source doesn't talk about "anti-sacrifice laws".
According to archaeologist Anna Collar, when groups of people with different ways of life come into contact with each other, they naturally exchange ideas and practices.This sentence reads very strange. I wouldn't imagine that Anna Collar is the only person to hold this opinion, and so why is she singled out? It seems like a very generic statement.
Up to the time of Justin I and Justinian I (527 to 565), there was some toleration for all religions; there were anti-sacrifice laws, but they were not enforced. Thus, up into the sixth century, there still existed centers of paganism in Athens, Gaza, Alexandria, and elsewhereand now compare to the source:
up to the time of Justin I and Justinian, the Byzantine emperor practiced a policy of toleration for all religions and, although there were anti-pagan and anti-heretical laws, they were not always enforced. Thus, up to the sixth century, we still find centers of paganism in Athens, Gaza, Alexandria, and elsewhere.It's almost exactly the same content just with a few words switched around.
Christianization has never been a one-way processand
when groups of people with different ways of life come into contact with each other, they naturally exchange ideas and practicesbut later it is claimed that
In the case of missionaries and the American Indians, the process of acculturation was purposely one-sided.. Alternative definitions of acculturation are then offered, but this just seems to add to the confusion. There needs to be more clarity regarding definitions, or if sources don't help with clarity it needs to be presented in a better way to show that there are differing opinions here. It also doesn't help that this discussion is separated and so it feels disconnected.
The concentration of issues in this article is really concerning to me and so I must quick fail this article. I find the very close paraphrasing a real issue which steps into the region of copyright problems, something I think a GA needs to stay well clear of. The interpretation of sources is also a concern as outlined above. Kind regards, Willbb234 20:00, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
Willbb234. In response to all issues mentioned, the article has been revised and hopefully simplified, objectionable material has been removed, references checked and/or replaced, the copy-vio has been run, and hopefully, the article is improved because of your input. Thank you. If you agree, I would like to renominate. Unfortunately, you can't review since you have now had input into the article, but hopefully I will get someone just as good. Jenhawk777 ( talk) 19:10, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
@ Jenhawk777: just a few comments from me.
thrown off balanceis not encyclopedic language. If this is the language used in the source, then I would recommend placing this in quotation marks. In fact, the language used throughout the intial paragraph in Individual conversion seems too technical or 'fancy' for Wikipedia. The whole sentence
The normative form of Christian conversion begins with an experience of being thrown off balance through cognitive and psychological disequilibriumseems like it would belong in a paper, not on Wikipedia.
@ Jenhawk777: thanks for your reply. There's already a lot of articles that cover the Christianisation of various countries, regions or peoples, so I think it's fine to cut these down and just link to the main article.
Hope I'm making some sense and I think the article looks nice, so good work on that. Willbb234 13:42, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
Please participate even if you are not willing to take on the official role or a full review. Comment on any section or any aspect. All comments will be taken seriously. You can comment here or at Wikipedia:Peer review/Christianization/archive1. Thank you all! Jenhawk777 ( talk) 19:53, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
![]() | Christianization was nominated as a History good article, but it did not meet the good article criteria at the time (August 3, 2023, reviewed version). There are suggestions on the review page for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated. |
![]() | Christianization ( final version) received a peer review by Wikipedia editors, which on 19 September 2023 was archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article. |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Christianization article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
1Auto-archiving period: 28 days
![]() |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Reviewer: Willbb234 ( talk · contribs) 20:00, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
Hello. I've read through a lot of the article and assessed some of the sources and have come to the conclusion that the article fails the criteria. Please be aware that I have taken plenty of time to consider my decision and it's a decision I have not taken lightly. Please allow me to explain.
The lede needs some quite significant work to meet the readability standards. The first sentence is written like a dictionary definition - this is not standard in an encyclopedia article. I don't see what was wrong with the first sentence in this version of the article?
Christianization (or Christianisation) was the conversion of societies to Christianity beginning in late antiquity in the Roman Empire and continuing through the Late Middle Ages in Europe.But conversion did not begin in late antique Rome, it began in the first century in Palestine, and it did not simply continue into Late Middle Ages in Europe, it continues into our present day around the world. I can say that if you prefer it and move the definition down into the body instead. I'll give that a go and you can see if you think it's better. Jenhawk777 ( talk) 23:26, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
For nations, this has historically been associated with missions and missionaries, and is therefore called the mission period, but I see no mention of a "mission period" in the cited source, at least not in p.57 as it is claimed.
The convert's way of life begins to transform.. The sources states that the way of life of the community changes (emphasis mine). It's important to make this distinction.
During this stage, Christianization establishes schools and spreads education, translates Christian writings to local languages, often developing a script to do so, thereby creating the first literature of what had been a pre-literate cultureI read through pages 87 and 88 of the cited source [1] and I encountered multiple issues:
In reality, Javanese people did not give much attention to the teachings of Christianityand so attempting to claim that this is part of a successful Christianisation process is difficult.
many scholars use the terms inculturation and acculturation instead, the source actually states
Frequently, instead of that concept, the terms inculturation and acculturation are employed. Nothing about 'scholars' or 'many' of them.
has led contemporary scholars to write that its traditional definition can only be used when both societies involved in exchange have some autonomyagain, the source does not mention 'contemporary scholars' in the referenced pages.
there were anti-sacrifice laws, but they were not enforced. Source doesn't talk about "anti-sacrifice laws".
According to archaeologist Anna Collar, when groups of people with different ways of life come into contact with each other, they naturally exchange ideas and practices.This sentence reads very strange. I wouldn't imagine that Anna Collar is the only person to hold this opinion, and so why is she singled out? It seems like a very generic statement.
Up to the time of Justin I and Justinian I (527 to 565), there was some toleration for all religions; there were anti-sacrifice laws, but they were not enforced. Thus, up into the sixth century, there still existed centers of paganism in Athens, Gaza, Alexandria, and elsewhereand now compare to the source:
up to the time of Justin I and Justinian, the Byzantine emperor practiced a policy of toleration for all religions and, although there were anti-pagan and anti-heretical laws, they were not always enforced. Thus, up to the sixth century, we still find centers of paganism in Athens, Gaza, Alexandria, and elsewhere.It's almost exactly the same content just with a few words switched around.
Christianization has never been a one-way processand
when groups of people with different ways of life come into contact with each other, they naturally exchange ideas and practicesbut later it is claimed that
In the case of missionaries and the American Indians, the process of acculturation was purposely one-sided.. Alternative definitions of acculturation are then offered, but this just seems to add to the confusion. There needs to be more clarity regarding definitions, or if sources don't help with clarity it needs to be presented in a better way to show that there are differing opinions here. It also doesn't help that this discussion is separated and so it feels disconnected.
The concentration of issues in this article is really concerning to me and so I must quick fail this article. I find the very close paraphrasing a real issue which steps into the region of copyright problems, something I think a GA needs to stay well clear of. The interpretation of sources is also a concern as outlined above. Kind regards, Willbb234 20:00, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
Willbb234. In response to all issues mentioned, the article has been revised and hopefully simplified, objectionable material has been removed, references checked and/or replaced, the copy-vio has been run, and hopefully, the article is improved because of your input. Thank you. If you agree, I would like to renominate. Unfortunately, you can't review since you have now had input into the article, but hopefully I will get someone just as good. Jenhawk777 ( talk) 19:10, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
@ Jenhawk777: just a few comments from me.
thrown off balanceis not encyclopedic language. If this is the language used in the source, then I would recommend placing this in quotation marks. In fact, the language used throughout the intial paragraph in Individual conversion seems too technical or 'fancy' for Wikipedia. The whole sentence
The normative form of Christian conversion begins with an experience of being thrown off balance through cognitive and psychological disequilibriumseems like it would belong in a paper, not on Wikipedia.
@ Jenhawk777: thanks for your reply. There's already a lot of articles that cover the Christianisation of various countries, regions or peoples, so I think it's fine to cut these down and just link to the main article.
Hope I'm making some sense and I think the article looks nice, so good work on that. Willbb234 13:42, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
Please participate even if you are not willing to take on the official role or a full review. Comment on any section or any aspect. All comments will be taken seriously. You can comment here or at Wikipedia:Peer review/Christianization/archive1. Thank you all! Jenhawk777 ( talk) 19:53, 20 August 2023 (UTC)