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Reviewer: Sarnold17 ( talk · contribs) 22:38, 30 September 2012 (UTC) Hello; I'll be picking up the review of this article. I've only skimmed it and read the lead so far; I'll be back with comments in a day or two. Sarnold17 ( talk) 22:38, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
The structure of the article looks great; well organised, nice image placement, well referenced with current material. I'm having difficulty with the prose, however, so will have a lot of comments and a lot of questions. If you feel that I am not a good person to be reviewing this, please let me know (nicely) so that we can get another reviewer. You will see from my questions that I have little knowledge of the topic, but I nevertheless find it interesting, and wish to learn about the subject. I'll save the lead for last, and begin with the main article.
"While the Picts and Scots away from Roman influence would have remained pagan, it is generally presumed that Christianity would have survived after the departure of the Romans among the Brythonic enclaves such as Strathclyde, but retreated as the pagan Anglo-Saxons advanced."
Done--
SabreBD (
talk)
10:40, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
Done I think we can say that.--
SabreBD (
talk)
10:40, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
"While British Christians continued to practice inhumation without grave goods, the pagan Anglo-Saxons are visible in the archaeological record for England from their practice of cremation and burial in urns, accompanied by extensive grave goods, perhaps designed to accompany the dead to the afterlife."
"In the sixth century missionaries from Ireland were operating on the British mainland. This movement is traditionally associated with the figures of St Ninian, St Kentigern and St Columba."
"The shadowy figure of Kentigern is recorded as dying in c. 614 and seems to have been active in support of Christianity in the Strathclyde region."
Ninian is now regarded as largely a construct of the Northumbrian church, after the Bernician takeover of Whithorn and conquest of southern Galloway.
"The name itself is a scribal corruption of Uinniau ('n's and 'u's look almost identical in early insular calligraphy), a saint of probable British extraction who is also known by the Gaelic equivalent of his name, Finnian.
"St Columba was probably a disciple of Uinniau. He left Ireland and founded the monastery at Iona off the West Coast of Scotland in 563 and from there carried out missions to the Scots of Dál Riata and the Picts."
"It seems likely that both the Scots and Picts had already begun to convert to Christianity before this period."
"Saint Patrick referred in a letter to "apostate Picts", suggesting that they had previously been Christian, while the poem Y Gododdin, set in the early sixth century does not remark on the Picts as pagans."
"One of the key indicators of Christianisation are long- cist cemeteries, which generally lie on an East-West orientation."
"Many of them are in the vicinity of a church or possess an early Christian inscription."
"These burials are found between the end of the Roman era and the twelfth century."
"They are concentrated strongly in eastern Scotland south of the Tay, in Angus, the Mearns, Lothian and the Borders."
"It is generally accepted among scholars that place-name element eccles-, from the Brythonic word for church, represents evidence of the British church of the Roman and immediate post-Roman period, most of which are located in the south-west, south and east."
"About a dozen inscribed stones of the 5th and 6th centuries, beginning with the so-called Latinus stone of Whithorn, dating to c. 450, indicate Christianity through their dedications and are spread across southern Scotland."
I hope I'm not being too picky, so tell me if I'm going way overboard. My thinking is that if things are clear in my mind, then the general reader will also have a better chance of understanding. I hope to get back to this tomorrow. Sarnold17 ( talk) 01:43, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
"The Celtic church is a term which is used by scholars both for the Gaelic church and for the religious establishment of northern Britain prior to the twelfth century, when new religious institutions and ideologies of (primarily French origin) began to take root in Scotland."
It had its origins in the conversion of Ireland from late Roman Britain associated with St. Patrick in the fifth century.
"Although there were few theological differences between Roman and Celtic Christianity there were differences over major issues of practice, including the method by which Easter was calculated, the form of tonsure, and minor differences in the rites of ordination, baptism and in the liturgy."
"The typical features of native Scottish Christianity that have been identified are relaxed ideas of clerical celibacy, intense secularization of ecclesiastical institutions, and the lack of a dioscesan structure, making abbots (or coarbs) more important offices of the native Scottish church above Bishops."
"The part of southern Scotland dominated by the Anglians in this period had a Bishopric established at Abercorn in West Lothian, and it is presumed that it would have adopted the leadership of Rome after the Synod of Whitby in 663, until the Battle of Dunnichen in 685, when the Bishop and his followers were ejected."
"The Picts accepted the reforms of Rome under Nechtan mac Der-Ilei around 710."
"The followers of the Celtic traditions retreated to Iona and then to Innishbofin and the Western isles remained an outpost of Celtic practice for some time.(ref)Celtic Christianity continued to influence religion in England and across Europe into the late Middle Ages as part of the Hiberno-Scottish mission, spreading Christianity, monasteries, art and theological ideas across the continent."
"Scotland was untouched by continental forms of monasticism until the late eleventh century."
"Some early Scottish establishments are famous for their dynasties of abbots, who were often secular clergy with families, most famously at Dunkeld and Brechin; but these existed across Scotland north of the Forth, as at Portmahomack, Mortlach, and Abernethy.
"Perhaps in reaction to this secularisation of monasticism a reforming movement of monks called Céli Dé (lit. "vassals of God"), anglicised as culdees, spread to Scotland from Ireland in the late eighth and early ninth centuries. Some Céli Dé took vows of chastity and poverty and while some lived individually as hermits, others lived beside or within existing monasteries."
"Physically monasteries differed significantly from those on the continent, and were often an isolated collection of wooden huts surrounded by a wall."
"Scottish monasticism remained a vital force into the high Middle Ages, playing a part in the Hiberno-Scottish mission, where monasteries, often called Schottenklöster, were founded by Gaelic monks on the continent, and Scottish monks, such as St Cathróe of Metz, became..."
"In most cases, these monks were not replaced by new continental monks in the Norman period and the tradition continued until the thirteenth century."
As you can see by my above comments, I'm having a bit of difficulty with the language. I think the article should be completely understandable to the general reader without the reader having to click on a single wikilink. The reason for this is that at times the article will be printed out and then read, which means that clicking on links will not be an option. Therefore, the meaning of words in a sentence should be obtainable from context. I've mentioned the word Brythonic, which was a big stumbling block for me. Let the reader learn the gist of what it means from the context of the first sentence in which it appears. The next word that tripped me up was monasticism. I think the best way to handle this word is to talk about monasteries a time or two, and then make the connection with the word monasticism. Anytime the article mentions a location, let the reader know why that location is relevant to the article, or where it is, but I recommend that the reader not be forced to click on the link to discover the relevance to the article, because any train of thought developed in the reader's mind will then be lost, and the flow of the article broken. I don't have all the answers, but I'm offering some suggestions so that the article sounds less like a PHD dissertation and more like a place where my high school kids can go to research the topic of Christianity in medieval Scotland. Honestly, I'm not trying to overwhelm you with my comments; I'm trying to make this piece something that I can totally wrap my head around from beginning to end. Sarnold17 ( talk) 15:35, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
"There is evidence that Christianity made inroads into the Viking controlled Highland and Islands before the official conversion at the end of the tenth century."
"According to the Orkneyinga Saga the Northern Isles were Christianised by Olav Tryggvasson, king of Norway, in 995 when he stopped at South Walls on his way from Ireland to Norway."
The King summoned the jarl Sigurd the Stout and said "I order you and all your subjects to be baptised. If you refuse, I'll have you killed on the spot and I swear I will ravage every island with fire and steel".
"The introduction of the continental type of monasticism to Scotland is associated with Queen Margaret, the wife of Máel Coluim III, although her exact role is unclear. We know she was in communication with Lanfranc, Archbishop of Canterbury, and he provided a few monks for a new Benedictine abbey at Dunfermline (c. 1070)."
"The first Augustinian priory was established at Scone by Alexander I in 1115. By the early thirteenth century, Augustinians had settled alongside, taken-over or reformed Céli Dé establishments at St Andrews, St Serf's Inch, Inchcolm, Inchmahome, Inchaffray, Restenneth and Iona, and had created numerous new establishments, such as Holyrood Abbey."
"The Cistercians achieved two important Scottish foundations, at Melrose (1136) and Dundrennan (1142), and the Tironensians achieved foundations at Selkirk, then Kelso, Arbroath, Lindores and Kilwinning."
" Cluniacs founded an abbey at Paisley, the Premonstratensians at Whithorn and the Valliscaulians at Pluscarden. The military orders entered Scotland under David, with the Knights Templer founding Balantrodoch in Midlothian and the Knights Hospitallers being given Torphichen, West Lothian."
"From this period local lay landholders, perhaps following the example of David I, began to adopt the continental practice of building churches on their land for the local population and endowing them with land and a priest, beginning in the south, spreading to the north-east and then the west, being almost universal by the first survey of the Scottish Church for papal taxation in 1274."
"The administration of these parishes was often given over to local monastic institutions in a process known as appropriation. By the time of the Reformation in the mid-sixteenth century 80 per cent of Scottish parishes were appropriated."
"The church in Scotland attained independent status after the Papal Bull of Celestine III ( Cum universi, 1192) by which all Scottish bishoprics except Galloway were formally independent of York and Canterbury."
"It was in practice run by special councils of made up of all the bishops, with the bishop of St Andrews emerging as the most important player."
"Like every other Christian country, one of the main features of Medieval Scottish Christianity was the Cult of Saints."
"The most important missionary saint was Columba, who emerged as a national figure in the combined Scottish and Pictish kingdom, with a new centre established in the east at Dunkeld by Kenneth I for part of his relics."
He remained a major figure into the fourteenth century and a new foundation was endowed by William I at Arbroath Abbey and the relics in the Monymusk Reliquary handed over to the Abbot's care.
"Regional saints remained important to local identities. In Strathclyde the most important saint was St Kentigern, in Lothian, St Cuthbert and after this martyrdom around 1115 a cult emerged in Orkney, Shetland and northern Scotland around Magnus Erlendsson, Earl of Orkney."
"The cult of St Andrew in Scotland was established on the Eastern coast by the Pictish kings as early as the eighth century."
"The shrine, which from the twelfth century was said to have contained the relics of the saint, brought to Scotland by Saint Regulus, began to attract pilgrims from Scotland, but also from England and further away."
"By the twelfth century the site at Kilrymont, had become known simply as St. Andrews and it became increasingly associated with Scottish national identity and the royal family."
"It was renewed as a focus for devotion with the patronage of Queen Margaret, who also became important after her canonisation in 1250 and the ceremonial transfer of her remains to Dunfermline Abbey, as one of most revered national saints."
"In the late Middle Ages the "international" cults, particularity those centred on the Virgin Mary and Christ, but also St Joseph, St. Anne, the Three Kings and the Apostles, would become more significant."
This concludes my comments on the high middle ages. Sarnold17 ( talk) 17:21, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
"In the Papal Schism (1378-1417)..."
"In 1383, Clement VII appointed for Scotland its first cardinal, Walter Wardlaw, Bishop of Glasgow."
"In the subsequent debates over Conciliarism and the authority of the pope, divisions mirrored political divisions in the country and church, with king James I and his chancellor John Cameron, Archbishop of Glasgow, becoming conciliarists and William Croyser, Archdeacon of Teviotdale, the leading opponent of Cameron, becoming a papalist."
"As elsewhere in Europe, the collapse of papal authority in the Papal Schism allowed the Scottish Crown to gain effective control of major ecclesiastical appointments within the kingdom, a position recognised by the Papacy in 1487."
" James IV used his pilgrimages to Tain and Whithorn to help bring Ross and Galloway under royal authority."
"Traditional Protestant historiography tended to stress the corruption and unpopularity of the late Medieval Scottish church, but more recent research has indicated the ways in which it met the spiritual needs of different social groups."
"Historians have discerned a decline of monasticism in this period, with many religious houses keeping smaller numbers of monks, and those remaining often abandoning communal living for a more individual and secular lifestyle."
"New monastic endowments from the nobility also declined in the fifteenth century. In contrast, the burghs saw the flourishing of mendicant orders of friars in the later fifteenth century, who placed an emphasis on preaching and ministering to the population."
"The order of Observant Friars were organised as a Scottish province from 1467 and the older Franciscans and Dominicans were recognised as separate provinces in the 1480s."
"In most burghs, in contrast to English towns where churches tended to proliferate, there was usually only one parish church, but as the doctrine of Purgatory gained in importance in the period, the number of chapelries, priests and masses for the dead within them grew rapidly."
"The number of altars to saints also grew dramatically, with St. Mary's in Dundee having perhaps 48 and St Giles' in Edinburgh over 50, as did the number of saints celebrated in Scotland, with about 90 being added to the missal used in St Nicholas church in Aberdeen."
"New cults of devotion connected with Jesus and the Virgin Mary also began to reach Scotland in the fifteenth century, including The Five Wounds, The Holy Blood and The Holy Name of Jesus and new feasts including The Presentation, The Visitation and Mary of the Snows."
"In the early fourteenth century the Papacy managed to minimise the problem of clerical pluralism, but with relatively poor livings and a shortage of clergy, particularly after the Black Death, meant that in the fifteenth century the number of clerics holding two or more livings rapidly increased."
"Heresy, in the form of Lollardry, began to reach Scotland from England and Bohemia in the early fifteenth century, but despite evidence of a number of burnings of heretics and limited apparent support for its anti-sacramental elements, it probably remained a relatively small movement."
"Christianity is presumed to have survived among the Brythonic enclaves in the south of Scotland, but retreated as the pagan Anglo-Saxons advanced."
"Scotland was largely converted by Irish-Scots missions associated with figures such as St Columba from the fifth to the seventh centuries."
"These missions tended to found monastic institutions and collegiate churches that served large areas."
"Partly as a result of these factors, scholars have identified a distinctive form of Celtic Christianity, in which abbots were more significant than bishops, attitudes to clerical celibacy were more relaxed and there were significant differences in practice with Roman Christianity, particularly the form of tonsure and the method of calculating Easter, although most of these issues had been resolved by the mid-seventh century."
"After the reconversion of Scandinavian Scotland from the tenth century, Christianity under papal authority was the dominant religion of the kingdom."
"In the Norman period the Scottish church underwent a series of reforms and transformations. With royal and lay patronage, a clearer parochial structure based around local churches was developed."
"Large numbers of new foundations, which followed continental forms of reformed monasticism, began to predominate and the Scottish church established its independence from England, developed a clearer diocesan structure, becoming a "special daughter of the see of Rome", but lacking leadership in the form of Archbishops."
"In the late Middle Ages the problems of
schism in the Catholic Church allowed the Scottish Crown to gain greater influence over senior appointments and two archbishoprics had been established by the end of the fifteenth century."
"While some historians have discerned a decline of monasticism in the late Middle Ages, the mendicant orders of friars grew, particularly in the expanding burghs, to meet the spiritual needs of the population."
"Despite problems over the number and quality of clergy after the Black Death in the fourteenth century, and limited evidence of heresy in this period, the Church in Scotland remained relatively stable before the Reformation in the sixteenth century."
From the Wikipedia Manual of Style: "Captions should be succinct; more information about the image can be included on its description page, or in the main text." Anything more than a single sentence or sentence fragment, to my way of thinking, is not succinct, so should be trimmed out. Most of the captions are fine, but the images of the Kirkyard stone, tonsure, and Henry Wardlaw are too lengthy, and should be cut back. Sarnold17 ( talk) 01:33, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
Overall, the major aspects of this article are commendable, and it is in good position for nomination to GA status. Though the number of comments might appear overwhelming, I've quoted entire sentences from the article, and many of the fixes will be modest word changes. The major issue continues to be the language of the article, which needs to be brought down to an instructive level so that the article is understandable to the average person going to the encyclopedia for information. I've offered many recommendations, and will offer more as changes are made. Some of my comments I feel less passionate about as I've worked my way through the article, or as I better see the items in context. I'm going to put the article on hold for two weeks to allow for changes to be made. Sarnold17 ( talk) 01:09, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria
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Reviewer: Sarnold17 ( talk · contribs) 22:38, 30 September 2012 (UTC) Hello; I'll be picking up the review of this article. I've only skimmed it and read the lead so far; I'll be back with comments in a day or two. Sarnold17 ( talk) 22:38, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
The structure of the article looks great; well organised, nice image placement, well referenced with current material. I'm having difficulty with the prose, however, so will have a lot of comments and a lot of questions. If you feel that I am not a good person to be reviewing this, please let me know (nicely) so that we can get another reviewer. You will see from my questions that I have little knowledge of the topic, but I nevertheless find it interesting, and wish to learn about the subject. I'll save the lead for last, and begin with the main article.
"While the Picts and Scots away from Roman influence would have remained pagan, it is generally presumed that Christianity would have survived after the departure of the Romans among the Brythonic enclaves such as Strathclyde, but retreated as the pagan Anglo-Saxons advanced."
Done--
SabreBD (
talk)
10:40, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
Done I think we can say that.--
SabreBD (
talk)
10:40, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
"While British Christians continued to practice inhumation without grave goods, the pagan Anglo-Saxons are visible in the archaeological record for England from their practice of cremation and burial in urns, accompanied by extensive grave goods, perhaps designed to accompany the dead to the afterlife."
"In the sixth century missionaries from Ireland were operating on the British mainland. This movement is traditionally associated with the figures of St Ninian, St Kentigern and St Columba."
"The shadowy figure of Kentigern is recorded as dying in c. 614 and seems to have been active in support of Christianity in the Strathclyde region."
Ninian is now regarded as largely a construct of the Northumbrian church, after the Bernician takeover of Whithorn and conquest of southern Galloway.
"The name itself is a scribal corruption of Uinniau ('n's and 'u's look almost identical in early insular calligraphy), a saint of probable British extraction who is also known by the Gaelic equivalent of his name, Finnian.
"St Columba was probably a disciple of Uinniau. He left Ireland and founded the monastery at Iona off the West Coast of Scotland in 563 and from there carried out missions to the Scots of Dál Riata and the Picts."
"It seems likely that both the Scots and Picts had already begun to convert to Christianity before this period."
"Saint Patrick referred in a letter to "apostate Picts", suggesting that they had previously been Christian, while the poem Y Gododdin, set in the early sixth century does not remark on the Picts as pagans."
"One of the key indicators of Christianisation are long- cist cemeteries, which generally lie on an East-West orientation."
"Many of them are in the vicinity of a church or possess an early Christian inscription."
"These burials are found between the end of the Roman era and the twelfth century."
"They are concentrated strongly in eastern Scotland south of the Tay, in Angus, the Mearns, Lothian and the Borders."
"It is generally accepted among scholars that place-name element eccles-, from the Brythonic word for church, represents evidence of the British church of the Roman and immediate post-Roman period, most of which are located in the south-west, south and east."
"About a dozen inscribed stones of the 5th and 6th centuries, beginning with the so-called Latinus stone of Whithorn, dating to c. 450, indicate Christianity through their dedications and are spread across southern Scotland."
I hope I'm not being too picky, so tell me if I'm going way overboard. My thinking is that if things are clear in my mind, then the general reader will also have a better chance of understanding. I hope to get back to this tomorrow. Sarnold17 ( talk) 01:43, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
"The Celtic church is a term which is used by scholars both for the Gaelic church and for the religious establishment of northern Britain prior to the twelfth century, when new religious institutions and ideologies of (primarily French origin) began to take root in Scotland."
It had its origins in the conversion of Ireland from late Roman Britain associated with St. Patrick in the fifth century.
"Although there were few theological differences between Roman and Celtic Christianity there were differences over major issues of practice, including the method by which Easter was calculated, the form of tonsure, and minor differences in the rites of ordination, baptism and in the liturgy."
"The typical features of native Scottish Christianity that have been identified are relaxed ideas of clerical celibacy, intense secularization of ecclesiastical institutions, and the lack of a dioscesan structure, making abbots (or coarbs) more important offices of the native Scottish church above Bishops."
"The part of southern Scotland dominated by the Anglians in this period had a Bishopric established at Abercorn in West Lothian, and it is presumed that it would have adopted the leadership of Rome after the Synod of Whitby in 663, until the Battle of Dunnichen in 685, when the Bishop and his followers were ejected."
"The Picts accepted the reforms of Rome under Nechtan mac Der-Ilei around 710."
"The followers of the Celtic traditions retreated to Iona and then to Innishbofin and the Western isles remained an outpost of Celtic practice for some time.(ref)Celtic Christianity continued to influence religion in England and across Europe into the late Middle Ages as part of the Hiberno-Scottish mission, spreading Christianity, monasteries, art and theological ideas across the continent."
"Scotland was untouched by continental forms of monasticism until the late eleventh century."
"Some early Scottish establishments are famous for their dynasties of abbots, who were often secular clergy with families, most famously at Dunkeld and Brechin; but these existed across Scotland north of the Forth, as at Portmahomack, Mortlach, and Abernethy.
"Perhaps in reaction to this secularisation of monasticism a reforming movement of monks called Céli Dé (lit. "vassals of God"), anglicised as culdees, spread to Scotland from Ireland in the late eighth and early ninth centuries. Some Céli Dé took vows of chastity and poverty and while some lived individually as hermits, others lived beside or within existing monasteries."
"Physically monasteries differed significantly from those on the continent, and were often an isolated collection of wooden huts surrounded by a wall."
"Scottish monasticism remained a vital force into the high Middle Ages, playing a part in the Hiberno-Scottish mission, where monasteries, often called Schottenklöster, were founded by Gaelic monks on the continent, and Scottish monks, such as St Cathróe of Metz, became..."
"In most cases, these monks were not replaced by new continental monks in the Norman period and the tradition continued until the thirteenth century."
As you can see by my above comments, I'm having a bit of difficulty with the language. I think the article should be completely understandable to the general reader without the reader having to click on a single wikilink. The reason for this is that at times the article will be printed out and then read, which means that clicking on links will not be an option. Therefore, the meaning of words in a sentence should be obtainable from context. I've mentioned the word Brythonic, which was a big stumbling block for me. Let the reader learn the gist of what it means from the context of the first sentence in which it appears. The next word that tripped me up was monasticism. I think the best way to handle this word is to talk about monasteries a time or two, and then make the connection with the word monasticism. Anytime the article mentions a location, let the reader know why that location is relevant to the article, or where it is, but I recommend that the reader not be forced to click on the link to discover the relevance to the article, because any train of thought developed in the reader's mind will then be lost, and the flow of the article broken. I don't have all the answers, but I'm offering some suggestions so that the article sounds less like a PHD dissertation and more like a place where my high school kids can go to research the topic of Christianity in medieval Scotland. Honestly, I'm not trying to overwhelm you with my comments; I'm trying to make this piece something that I can totally wrap my head around from beginning to end. Sarnold17 ( talk) 15:35, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
"There is evidence that Christianity made inroads into the Viking controlled Highland and Islands before the official conversion at the end of the tenth century."
"According to the Orkneyinga Saga the Northern Isles were Christianised by Olav Tryggvasson, king of Norway, in 995 when he stopped at South Walls on his way from Ireland to Norway."
The King summoned the jarl Sigurd the Stout and said "I order you and all your subjects to be baptised. If you refuse, I'll have you killed on the spot and I swear I will ravage every island with fire and steel".
"The introduction of the continental type of monasticism to Scotland is associated with Queen Margaret, the wife of Máel Coluim III, although her exact role is unclear. We know she was in communication with Lanfranc, Archbishop of Canterbury, and he provided a few monks for a new Benedictine abbey at Dunfermline (c. 1070)."
"The first Augustinian priory was established at Scone by Alexander I in 1115. By the early thirteenth century, Augustinians had settled alongside, taken-over or reformed Céli Dé establishments at St Andrews, St Serf's Inch, Inchcolm, Inchmahome, Inchaffray, Restenneth and Iona, and had created numerous new establishments, such as Holyrood Abbey."
"The Cistercians achieved two important Scottish foundations, at Melrose (1136) and Dundrennan (1142), and the Tironensians achieved foundations at Selkirk, then Kelso, Arbroath, Lindores and Kilwinning."
" Cluniacs founded an abbey at Paisley, the Premonstratensians at Whithorn and the Valliscaulians at Pluscarden. The military orders entered Scotland under David, with the Knights Templer founding Balantrodoch in Midlothian and the Knights Hospitallers being given Torphichen, West Lothian."
"From this period local lay landholders, perhaps following the example of David I, began to adopt the continental practice of building churches on their land for the local population and endowing them with land and a priest, beginning in the south, spreading to the north-east and then the west, being almost universal by the first survey of the Scottish Church for papal taxation in 1274."
"The administration of these parishes was often given over to local monastic institutions in a process known as appropriation. By the time of the Reformation in the mid-sixteenth century 80 per cent of Scottish parishes were appropriated."
"The church in Scotland attained independent status after the Papal Bull of Celestine III ( Cum universi, 1192) by which all Scottish bishoprics except Galloway were formally independent of York and Canterbury."
"It was in practice run by special councils of made up of all the bishops, with the bishop of St Andrews emerging as the most important player."
"Like every other Christian country, one of the main features of Medieval Scottish Christianity was the Cult of Saints."
"The most important missionary saint was Columba, who emerged as a national figure in the combined Scottish and Pictish kingdom, with a new centre established in the east at Dunkeld by Kenneth I for part of his relics."
He remained a major figure into the fourteenth century and a new foundation was endowed by William I at Arbroath Abbey and the relics in the Monymusk Reliquary handed over to the Abbot's care.
"Regional saints remained important to local identities. In Strathclyde the most important saint was St Kentigern, in Lothian, St Cuthbert and after this martyrdom around 1115 a cult emerged in Orkney, Shetland and northern Scotland around Magnus Erlendsson, Earl of Orkney."
"The cult of St Andrew in Scotland was established on the Eastern coast by the Pictish kings as early as the eighth century."
"The shrine, which from the twelfth century was said to have contained the relics of the saint, brought to Scotland by Saint Regulus, began to attract pilgrims from Scotland, but also from England and further away."
"By the twelfth century the site at Kilrymont, had become known simply as St. Andrews and it became increasingly associated with Scottish national identity and the royal family."
"It was renewed as a focus for devotion with the patronage of Queen Margaret, who also became important after her canonisation in 1250 and the ceremonial transfer of her remains to Dunfermline Abbey, as one of most revered national saints."
"In the late Middle Ages the "international" cults, particularity those centred on the Virgin Mary and Christ, but also St Joseph, St. Anne, the Three Kings and the Apostles, would become more significant."
This concludes my comments on the high middle ages. Sarnold17 ( talk) 17:21, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
"In the Papal Schism (1378-1417)..."
"In 1383, Clement VII appointed for Scotland its first cardinal, Walter Wardlaw, Bishop of Glasgow."
"In the subsequent debates over Conciliarism and the authority of the pope, divisions mirrored political divisions in the country and church, with king James I and his chancellor John Cameron, Archbishop of Glasgow, becoming conciliarists and William Croyser, Archdeacon of Teviotdale, the leading opponent of Cameron, becoming a papalist."
"As elsewhere in Europe, the collapse of papal authority in the Papal Schism allowed the Scottish Crown to gain effective control of major ecclesiastical appointments within the kingdom, a position recognised by the Papacy in 1487."
" James IV used his pilgrimages to Tain and Whithorn to help bring Ross and Galloway under royal authority."
"Traditional Protestant historiography tended to stress the corruption and unpopularity of the late Medieval Scottish church, but more recent research has indicated the ways in which it met the spiritual needs of different social groups."
"Historians have discerned a decline of monasticism in this period, with many religious houses keeping smaller numbers of monks, and those remaining often abandoning communal living for a more individual and secular lifestyle."
"New monastic endowments from the nobility also declined in the fifteenth century. In contrast, the burghs saw the flourishing of mendicant orders of friars in the later fifteenth century, who placed an emphasis on preaching and ministering to the population."
"The order of Observant Friars were organised as a Scottish province from 1467 and the older Franciscans and Dominicans were recognised as separate provinces in the 1480s."
"In most burghs, in contrast to English towns where churches tended to proliferate, there was usually only one parish church, but as the doctrine of Purgatory gained in importance in the period, the number of chapelries, priests and masses for the dead within them grew rapidly."
"The number of altars to saints also grew dramatically, with St. Mary's in Dundee having perhaps 48 and St Giles' in Edinburgh over 50, as did the number of saints celebrated in Scotland, with about 90 being added to the missal used in St Nicholas church in Aberdeen."
"New cults of devotion connected with Jesus and the Virgin Mary also began to reach Scotland in the fifteenth century, including The Five Wounds, The Holy Blood and The Holy Name of Jesus and new feasts including The Presentation, The Visitation and Mary of the Snows."
"In the early fourteenth century the Papacy managed to minimise the problem of clerical pluralism, but with relatively poor livings and a shortage of clergy, particularly after the Black Death, meant that in the fifteenth century the number of clerics holding two or more livings rapidly increased."
"Heresy, in the form of Lollardry, began to reach Scotland from England and Bohemia in the early fifteenth century, but despite evidence of a number of burnings of heretics and limited apparent support for its anti-sacramental elements, it probably remained a relatively small movement."
"Christianity is presumed to have survived among the Brythonic enclaves in the south of Scotland, but retreated as the pagan Anglo-Saxons advanced."
"Scotland was largely converted by Irish-Scots missions associated with figures such as St Columba from the fifth to the seventh centuries."
"These missions tended to found monastic institutions and collegiate churches that served large areas."
"Partly as a result of these factors, scholars have identified a distinctive form of Celtic Christianity, in which abbots were more significant than bishops, attitudes to clerical celibacy were more relaxed and there were significant differences in practice with Roman Christianity, particularly the form of tonsure and the method of calculating Easter, although most of these issues had been resolved by the mid-seventh century."
"After the reconversion of Scandinavian Scotland from the tenth century, Christianity under papal authority was the dominant religion of the kingdom."
"In the Norman period the Scottish church underwent a series of reforms and transformations. With royal and lay patronage, a clearer parochial structure based around local churches was developed."
"Large numbers of new foundations, which followed continental forms of reformed monasticism, began to predominate and the Scottish church established its independence from England, developed a clearer diocesan structure, becoming a "special daughter of the see of Rome", but lacking leadership in the form of Archbishops."
"In the late Middle Ages the problems of
schism in the Catholic Church allowed the Scottish Crown to gain greater influence over senior appointments and two archbishoprics had been established by the end of the fifteenth century."
"While some historians have discerned a decline of monasticism in the late Middle Ages, the mendicant orders of friars grew, particularly in the expanding burghs, to meet the spiritual needs of the population."
"Despite problems over the number and quality of clergy after the Black Death in the fourteenth century, and limited evidence of heresy in this period, the Church in Scotland remained relatively stable before the Reformation in the sixteenth century."
From the Wikipedia Manual of Style: "Captions should be succinct; more information about the image can be included on its description page, or in the main text." Anything more than a single sentence or sentence fragment, to my way of thinking, is not succinct, so should be trimmed out. Most of the captions are fine, but the images of the Kirkyard stone, tonsure, and Henry Wardlaw are too lengthy, and should be cut back. Sarnold17 ( talk) 01:33, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
Overall, the major aspects of this article are commendable, and it is in good position for nomination to GA status. Though the number of comments might appear overwhelming, I've quoted entire sentences from the article, and many of the fixes will be modest word changes. The major issue continues to be the language of the article, which needs to be brought down to an instructive level so that the article is understandable to the average person going to the encyclopedia for information. I've offered many recommendations, and will offer more as changes are made. Some of my comments I feel less passionate about as I've worked my way through the article, or as I better see the items in context. I'm going to put the article on hold for two weeks to allow for changes to be made. Sarnold17 ( talk) 01:09, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria