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This article is clearly not NPOV since it treats its subject with glowing praise. From my own point of view I have often wondered why such devoutly spiritual folk would blow huge amounts of money on an ostentatious edifice instead of giving it straight to the poor and hiring an old hall to preach in. Lee M 02:38, 18 Apr 2004 (UTC)
This is not very NPOV: In a sermon in spring 1991, shortly after the end of the Gulf War, the minister of the Crystal Cathedral, in a Sunday sermon, prayed to thank God that no one had been killed in that war. This prayer of thanks, interpreted as a statement of history, ignores, then, the demise of several tens of thousands of Iraqi military and perhaps 2,000 civilians, as well as, apparently, a few hundred U.S. and allied soldiers. -- Dd42 22:07, May 4, 2005 (UTC)
Not many can judge what goes on at the Crystal Cathedral, because only the people who have relationships with the people can know what really goes on and what the minsters really have a heart for, against what most of the public gossips about. Only one from experience and relationship can judge and truly evaluate what the Crystal Cathedral actually is should be writing anything on this page. Me, for example is the one that has a voice that should and will be heard. Dr. Schuller from personal experience, is a great person, and truly loves the Lord with all of his heart, the rest would make sense if someone knew his intentions. Nov. 13, 05 A Crystal Cathedral student.
"that's around US$ 100 million in 2005 dollars" - where does this data come from? I've found inflation and CPI data that indicates 17 million in 1980 would be less than 50 million in 2005; even calculating from 1977 would only bring that up to 55 million or so. Zhwj 15:36, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
All numbers and informations were quoted from the History Channel's program Building in the Name of God. I also believed that US$ 100 million was quite high, but I wanted to quote the History Channel. Please, correct the information then...
And I also believed that the total end cost of US$17 million was quite low for a project of that size, but Time Magazine backs up History Channel data. See the link:
Robert Schuller, 59, a bland-looking but calculatedly theatrical performer, presides over the vast, glittery Crystal Cathedral in Garden Grove, Calif. Finished in 1980 at a cost of $18 million http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101860217-143137,00.html Herbert Alves 02:46, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
Bit silly for such a big article to not even list the denomination / movement this church belongs to.-- 194.81.255.254 ( talk) 17:05, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
why is the same picture in the article twice? surely there must be another picture somewhere —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.162.84.125 ( talk) 19:55, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
No official word on a name of the future cathedral by the Diocese of Orange yet. Suggestion is to move parts pertaining to its former use to the new article Crystal Cathedral Ministries.
Rebel shadow 12:58, 18 November 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rebel shadow ( talk • contribs)
It will be appreciated if editors stop editing this article on the basis of what they think will become the situation in the future with this church. It is a matter of policy that articles only reflect the present situation and not the future regardless of how likely that may be. The facts are that this church will remain a Protestant one for the near future and that until the process is completed the church is not yet sold to the Diocese of Orange. Any edits that violate this policy will be removed or reverted. Anglicanus ( talk) 01:43, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
Pardon the question, but doesn’t it seem a bit heavy-handed and misleading for the sixth word and first adjective in the article to be Protestant when the article is about a building and that building is currently owned by a Roman Catholic diocese? Buildings rarely profess particular religious views and can often be used by multiple sects. When the character of a building is critically changed by the faith that worships there (for instance, the Salt Lake Tabernacle), fine, but even the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, St. Peter's Basilica and Cathedral of Christ the Saviour are satisfied with "church", eschewing even the "Christian" adjective; Canterbury Cathedral, the seat of the leader of Anglicanism worldwide, doesn’t mention the Church of England until the second paragraph. The facts that the Crystal Cathedral was built by and is currently used for worship by a Protestant denomination are important facts, but the current status makes the initial adjective inappropriate in context. I don’t want to enter this particular edit war, but rewording to "The Crystal Cathedral is a Christian church [1] in the city of Garden Grove, in Orange County, California, United States" seem like a sustainable plan in line with similar Wikipedia articles. I'd even lose Christian but I have a feeling I'd get flamed for the suggestion... Kevin/Last1in ( talk) 01:28, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
I'm incubating this reference here because it doesn't fit with the sentence it was supposed to reference, but I don't want to outright delete it as we might be able to use it elsewhere on the article: [4] — KuyaBriBri Talk 21:42, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
I removed the recently added new section on the Diocese of Orange as it was far too long and most of the details were not especially relevant. I am happy to discuss this but I think all that needs mentioning at present about the diocese's plans is already in the article. If and when it actually becomes a RC cathedral then some of this information may be more appropriate to include. Anglicanus ( talk) 07:55, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
Escrow closed on Feb. 3, 2012, and the Crystal Cathedral is now owned by the Roman Catholic Diocese of Orange ( see here). The article will need to be revised to reflect this. I will start but may miss some wording. Thanks, 72Dino ( talk) 18:08, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
It was announced that the Crystal Cathedral would be renamed Christ Cathedral. However, I don't see in the references when this name change will occur. That is the name that the Catholic Church has given the facility, but it appears that the current congregation will continue to meet there for another year (references state June 2013). I believe this article should remain Crystal Cathedral until Catholic services are held there, at which time Christ Cathedral would be appropriate. A redirect from Christ Cathedral to Crystal Cathedral would exist until congregations change, then the redirect can be reversed. I'm interested to hear what others think. 72Dino ( talk) 02:23, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
Hmm...complicated. So, is the cathedral getting bought out or something like that? I am leaning toward the site of making a new, separate article for Christ Cathedral, if it's going to be a fundamentally different building. If it's just a name change, that's one thing, but this seems to be more than that. Silver seren C 22:24, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
Sounds like there is a consensus here but for what it's worth I'll throw my hat in and say that I oppose a move until the name change actually occurs. — KuyaBriBri Talk 14:19, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
Time to rename the article. As of November 2013 the renaming has happened, interior alternations are underway, and the CCM has moved out with St. Callista moving in. Its owned by the Catholic Archdiocese now. I've tried to neutralize it to be focused on the building and its history. When Christ Catheral opens them its time for another update. I tried to remove all religious citations since there is now a separate page for the Schuller Ministries organization, whatever it will rename itself.
LA Times article: November 17, 2013 "Cathedrals renewal begins." Sorry if I broke anything. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.198.84.84 ( talk) 04:28, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
New York Times declares that the Cathedral has been renamed: [8] "It was later bought by the Roman Catholic Diocese of Orange County and renamed Christ Cathedral in 2012." jps ( talk) 18:26, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
References
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One of the contracts for construction in the interior was signed in May, 2017. It is now expected the reopening / dedication will take place in 2019.
http://www.latimes.com/socal/daily-pilot/news/tn-wknd-et-cathedral-construction-20170525-story.html
SlowJog ( talk) 00:10, 30 May 2017 (UTC)
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The article said the re-installation of the organ "neared completion by March 2019." But, the article cited ended with these two sentences:
The diocese has set a July 17 date for the dedication of the new sanctuary. But, Hazel’s time won’t come until January.
That article was published in March, 2019, so the "January" referenced must mean January, 2020. In addition, the Catholic Bishop of Orange County website ( https://dedication.rcbo.org/ ) has this:
Following the dedication events, the Cathedral will only be open for the Saturday Vigil Mass and Sunday Masses until the Hazel Wright Organ is fully installed and voiced. It is anticipated that the Cathedral will open daily in February 2020. Therefore, not until that time will regular scheduled tours be conducted.
SlowJog ( talk) 23:34, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 17:37, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
There is a second organ on the campus worthy of mention: the Frederick Swann Organ in the Arboretum. It is an organ that Swann rescued from another church that had been destroyed by an earthquake. — Preceding unsigned comment added by A.T.S. in Texas ( talk • contribs) 01:54, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Text and/or other creative content from this version of Crystal Cathedral was copied or moved into Crystal Cathedral Ministries with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
This article is clearly not NPOV since it treats its subject with glowing praise. From my own point of view I have often wondered why such devoutly spiritual folk would blow huge amounts of money on an ostentatious edifice instead of giving it straight to the poor and hiring an old hall to preach in. Lee M 02:38, 18 Apr 2004 (UTC)
This is not very NPOV: In a sermon in spring 1991, shortly after the end of the Gulf War, the minister of the Crystal Cathedral, in a Sunday sermon, prayed to thank God that no one had been killed in that war. This prayer of thanks, interpreted as a statement of history, ignores, then, the demise of several tens of thousands of Iraqi military and perhaps 2,000 civilians, as well as, apparently, a few hundred U.S. and allied soldiers. -- Dd42 22:07, May 4, 2005 (UTC)
Not many can judge what goes on at the Crystal Cathedral, because only the people who have relationships with the people can know what really goes on and what the minsters really have a heart for, against what most of the public gossips about. Only one from experience and relationship can judge and truly evaluate what the Crystal Cathedral actually is should be writing anything on this page. Me, for example is the one that has a voice that should and will be heard. Dr. Schuller from personal experience, is a great person, and truly loves the Lord with all of his heart, the rest would make sense if someone knew his intentions. Nov. 13, 05 A Crystal Cathedral student.
"that's around US$ 100 million in 2005 dollars" - where does this data come from? I've found inflation and CPI data that indicates 17 million in 1980 would be less than 50 million in 2005; even calculating from 1977 would only bring that up to 55 million or so. Zhwj 15:36, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
All numbers and informations were quoted from the History Channel's program Building in the Name of God. I also believed that US$ 100 million was quite high, but I wanted to quote the History Channel. Please, correct the information then...
And I also believed that the total end cost of US$17 million was quite low for a project of that size, but Time Magazine backs up History Channel data. See the link:
Robert Schuller, 59, a bland-looking but calculatedly theatrical performer, presides over the vast, glittery Crystal Cathedral in Garden Grove, Calif. Finished in 1980 at a cost of $18 million http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101860217-143137,00.html Herbert Alves 02:46, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
Bit silly for such a big article to not even list the denomination / movement this church belongs to.-- 194.81.255.254 ( talk) 17:05, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
why is the same picture in the article twice? surely there must be another picture somewhere —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.162.84.125 ( talk) 19:55, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
No official word on a name of the future cathedral by the Diocese of Orange yet. Suggestion is to move parts pertaining to its former use to the new article Crystal Cathedral Ministries.
Rebel shadow 12:58, 18 November 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rebel shadow ( talk • contribs)
It will be appreciated if editors stop editing this article on the basis of what they think will become the situation in the future with this church. It is a matter of policy that articles only reflect the present situation and not the future regardless of how likely that may be. The facts are that this church will remain a Protestant one for the near future and that until the process is completed the church is not yet sold to the Diocese of Orange. Any edits that violate this policy will be removed or reverted. Anglicanus ( talk) 01:43, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
Pardon the question, but doesn’t it seem a bit heavy-handed and misleading for the sixth word and first adjective in the article to be Protestant when the article is about a building and that building is currently owned by a Roman Catholic diocese? Buildings rarely profess particular religious views and can often be used by multiple sects. When the character of a building is critically changed by the faith that worships there (for instance, the Salt Lake Tabernacle), fine, but even the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, St. Peter's Basilica and Cathedral of Christ the Saviour are satisfied with "church", eschewing even the "Christian" adjective; Canterbury Cathedral, the seat of the leader of Anglicanism worldwide, doesn’t mention the Church of England until the second paragraph. The facts that the Crystal Cathedral was built by and is currently used for worship by a Protestant denomination are important facts, but the current status makes the initial adjective inappropriate in context. I don’t want to enter this particular edit war, but rewording to "The Crystal Cathedral is a Christian church [1] in the city of Garden Grove, in Orange County, California, United States" seem like a sustainable plan in line with similar Wikipedia articles. I'd even lose Christian but I have a feeling I'd get flamed for the suggestion... Kevin/Last1in ( talk) 01:28, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
I'm incubating this reference here because it doesn't fit with the sentence it was supposed to reference, but I don't want to outright delete it as we might be able to use it elsewhere on the article: [4] — KuyaBriBri Talk 21:42, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
I removed the recently added new section on the Diocese of Orange as it was far too long and most of the details were not especially relevant. I am happy to discuss this but I think all that needs mentioning at present about the diocese's plans is already in the article. If and when it actually becomes a RC cathedral then some of this information may be more appropriate to include. Anglicanus ( talk) 07:55, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
Escrow closed on Feb. 3, 2012, and the Crystal Cathedral is now owned by the Roman Catholic Diocese of Orange ( see here). The article will need to be revised to reflect this. I will start but may miss some wording. Thanks, 72Dino ( talk) 18:08, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
It was announced that the Crystal Cathedral would be renamed Christ Cathedral. However, I don't see in the references when this name change will occur. That is the name that the Catholic Church has given the facility, but it appears that the current congregation will continue to meet there for another year (references state June 2013). I believe this article should remain Crystal Cathedral until Catholic services are held there, at which time Christ Cathedral would be appropriate. A redirect from Christ Cathedral to Crystal Cathedral would exist until congregations change, then the redirect can be reversed. I'm interested to hear what others think. 72Dino ( talk) 02:23, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
Hmm...complicated. So, is the cathedral getting bought out or something like that? I am leaning toward the site of making a new, separate article for Christ Cathedral, if it's going to be a fundamentally different building. If it's just a name change, that's one thing, but this seems to be more than that. Silver seren C 22:24, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
Sounds like there is a consensus here but for what it's worth I'll throw my hat in and say that I oppose a move until the name change actually occurs. — KuyaBriBri Talk 14:19, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
Time to rename the article. As of November 2013 the renaming has happened, interior alternations are underway, and the CCM has moved out with St. Callista moving in. Its owned by the Catholic Archdiocese now. I've tried to neutralize it to be focused on the building and its history. When Christ Catheral opens them its time for another update. I tried to remove all religious citations since there is now a separate page for the Schuller Ministries organization, whatever it will rename itself.
LA Times article: November 17, 2013 "Cathedrals renewal begins." Sorry if I broke anything. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.198.84.84 ( talk) 04:28, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
New York Times declares that the Cathedral has been renamed: [8] "It was later bought by the Roman Catholic Diocese of Orange County and renamed Christ Cathedral in 2012." jps ( talk) 18:26, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
References
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 09:45, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
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One of the contracts for construction in the interior was signed in May, 2017. It is now expected the reopening / dedication will take place in 2019.
http://www.latimes.com/socal/daily-pilot/news/tn-wknd-et-cathedral-construction-20170525-story.html
SlowJog ( talk) 00:10, 30 May 2017 (UTC)
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The article said the re-installation of the organ "neared completion by March 2019." But, the article cited ended with these two sentences:
The diocese has set a July 17 date for the dedication of the new sanctuary. But, Hazel’s time won’t come until January.
That article was published in March, 2019, so the "January" referenced must mean January, 2020. In addition, the Catholic Bishop of Orange County website ( https://dedication.rcbo.org/ ) has this:
Following the dedication events, the Cathedral will only be open for the Saturday Vigil Mass and Sunday Masses until the Hazel Wright Organ is fully installed and voiced. It is anticipated that the Cathedral will open daily in February 2020. Therefore, not until that time will regular scheduled tours be conducted.
SlowJog ( talk) 23:34, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 17:37, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
There is a second organ on the campus worthy of mention: the Frederick Swann Organ in the Arboretum. It is an organ that Swann rescued from another church that had been destroyed by an earthquake. — Preceding unsigned comment added by A.T.S. in Texas ( talk • contribs) 01:54, 27 December 2020 (UTC)