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Links to webpages that promote a book are almost always unacceptable per WP:EL. Book reviews that appear in a respected newspaper or magazine would usually be acceptable. See WP:V and WP:RS. -- Ronz ( talk) 18:47, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
I moved the following here for discussion: -- Ronz ( talk) 18:56, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
In 2006, after a bench trial before the honorable Judge I. Hansen, Heimerdinger was found guilty of misdemeanor criminal mischief, involving domestic violence. Heimerdinger was sentenced to 180 days in jail and fined $1,850.00. All of the 180 days was suspended and all but, $300.00 of the fine was suspended. In addition, Heimerdinger was placed on supervised probation for one year and ordered to take a 16 week domestic violence and anger management class, if ordered by Salt Lake County Probation Services. Also, Judge Hansen specifically ordered Heimerdinger, as part of the terms of his probation, to comply with all conditions of the restraining order issued in his divorce proceedings and to not possess any pornographic material. [1]
Yes, it is sourced, but I still think it's inappropriate per WP:BLP, especially WP:NPF. -- Ronz ( talk) 18:56, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
References
Of the three content tags, can the two be removed? 76.202.249.62 ( talk) 20:43, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
- "Early Life" 6 sentences.
- "Tennis Shoe Adventure Series" also just 6 sentences.
- "Film" 4 sentences.
Please do not use primary sources or Heimerdinger's own words as sole sources for sections or large amounts of information. Per WP:V, I'm removing unverified information and information dependent entirely on primary sources. -- Ronz ( talk) 20:46, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
I'm pretty busy atm or I'd do it myself:
See WP:CITE -- Ronz ( talk) 22:47, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
I was assuming that Heimerdinger would meet WP:BIO, but given the problems find any reliable sources at all about him, I think we need to be sure that it's clear we've met the notability critera and that we follow WP:NPF closely by including "only material relevant to their notability". -- Ronz ( talk) 23:46, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
Proposed: Merger of Tennis Shoes Adventure Series into this entry about the author. 76.202.249.62 ( talk) 00:16, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
Publishers are noted when discussing books and authors due to the reputations that they bring, it is akin to knowing which league or team they "play for". Here is a snippet from a paper discussing the concept that an imprint actually means something and that that knowledge of who the publisher is conveys information relevant to the work [1]:
Librarians affirm the importance of the publisher's reputation because they know how much the publisher can add to the quality of a published book, ...The reputation of the publisher serves as an indispensable shorthand in book selection. Rarely is there enough time to assess each monograph for quality or to wait for reviews to appear. Indeed, the publisher's name often provides the only known quantity that selectors have to use in making the decision. It is a necessary shorthand because selection book-inhand usually is not an option. Recent advances in Web technology now allow a selector to check the table of contents or to read a summary, but this is time-consuming. The author is, of course, another piece of information available to the selector, but the author's name may be completely unknown, as is the case with most first-time authors. One also can search to see whether the author has published other monographs, but the process soon becomes circular: with whom has he or she published, and what reputations do those publishers have?
Whether an author, or work, is published by Knopf, Ballantine Books or Little Brown is of importance and notable. There are even awards for publishers ( Batchelder Award)....17:49, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
(unindent) We're back to listing more and more publication information. [2]. What's the solution here? -- Ronz ( talk) 17:37, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
Tags are added to articles to attract other editors to help with specified problems: -- Ronz ( talk) 17:00, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
Some of this was previously discussed above -- Ronz ( talk) 23:21, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
Here's a copy of the current discussion from the section labeled "Content Tags" open above here. I tried to merge the two sections but Ronz reverted me. I'll just quote the ongoing discussion here:
Of the three content tags, can the two be removed? 76.202.249.62 ( talk) 20:43, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
- Not until we get them resolved. -- Ronz ( talk) 20:46, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
- Can you list what still needs to be resolved? Thanks 76.202.249.62 ( talk) 21:04, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
- I don't think anyone can address your concerns without you specifying what needs to be resolved. I'd love to help but I do need to know what you object to. 76.202.249.62 ( talk) 21:23, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
- Then read this talk page, get familiar with the policies and guidelines cited, and ask questions in response to the objections already given. Thanks! -- Ronz ( talk) 22:25, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
- I've read it all, and am familiar with the policies and guidelines and have already clearly indicated that I believe I've met them. I am unable to guess from here.
- There are only a few sentences in the entire article:
- "Early Life" 6 sentences.
- "Tennis Shoe Adventure Series" also just 6 sentences.
- "Film" 4 sentences.
- Which sentences do you feel are still in violation? Thanks. 76.202.249.62 ( talk) 23:02, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
- Is this your only objection? Format references to your standard and the tags can be removed? 76.202.249.62 ( talk) 00:01, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
I hope that helps, thanks 76.217.90.97 ( talk) 18:00, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
I intend to remove the tags on this article in 36 hours IF no one is willing or able to support the tags with specifics. It appears that all objections have been met - the article has been rewritten in it's entirety and whittled down to around 15+ sentences and 9 references.
If their are specific objections please note which tag, and the violating prose. All specific objections can and will be addressed. Thank you. 76.238.22.59 ( talk) 03:28, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
There is a discussion above on the tags. Please contribute to it. Thanks! -- Ronz ( talk) 03:40, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
- "Early Life" 6 sentences.
- "Books and Film" 11 sentences.
- "Novels" 1 sentence.
At this point, I'm more concerned that they'll be reintroduced since no one has yet indicated they even understand the problems we've had. Still, we've improved "Heimerdinger was active in high school theatre and drama and in competitive speech and oratory, where he excelled in Wyoming High School competitions for three years in the categories of Humor, Oratory, and Drama." but without access to the actual reference, it's hard to tell. I'm guessing the reference is actually a list of awards, which would mean that the wording is entirely WP:SYN. -- Ronz ( talk) 16:34, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
Can we now try to tackle the tag: Advertisement? Which text do you find that requires the tag? Thank you. 76.238.22.59 ( talk) 17:16, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
WP:EL, WP:SPAM, and WP:NOTLINK cover what are and are not considered as appropriate external links. -- Ronz ( talk) 18:02, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
I'm happy to see that so many people are currently involved with this article. In my opinion, the more Wikipedians involved in an article, the better the article will be.
I'm also happy this talk page has been cleaned up and reorganized. Frankly, I'm happy all my old comments are gone. It feels like a bold new world here now.
Just a couple comments then I'll let you get back to work.
1. Heimerdinger is undoubtedly notable. Wikipedia definitely needs an article about him.
2. I noticed, as I read through this page, that many of us are assuming other editors should know what we're talking about. It's wiser for me to assume that I'm being unclear, than that other people don't know how to read. Instead of saying I-already-said-that, try saying it again, more clearly this time.
3. I'm glad that changes (like removing the legal info) have been well discussed. I won't go into my reasons for why I think the legal info should be included because I'm satisfied that you all have hashed it out. No one Wikipedian's opinions are greater than the whole's.
I'm planning on leaving this article alone now. I think it is excellent that a new batch of people have taken it over and I think you're doing a great job. I'm going to go off and attend to some other part of the Wikiuniverse now. Because, frankly, I am sick of this one.
Keep up the good work! Thmazing ( talk) 23:57, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
The mention in this article of the Zarahemla movie seems intended to put the best possible spin on its importance. While BoxOfficeMojo may rank it as the 46th highest grossing Christian film, that amounts to a lifetime gross of about $292,000 according to that website. As movies go, that's not an impressive number. Perhaps we should include the actual number if it's going to be mentioned at all. There is also the problem that BoxOfficeMojo is unlikely to be a reliable source. If you check our own WP article on that site, you'll find that it is tagged for lacking sources itself. Presenting material in a balanced fashion is one of Wikipedia's virtues, and the rule should be followed here, I think. Unless coverage of the movie in reliable sources can be found, perhaps it should be omitted.
Since there probably aren't that many novelists that feature LDS themes in their work, this article has the potential to be interesting and keepable, but it should not overpromote the subject. EdJohnston ( talk) 02:46, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
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This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Chris Heimerdinger article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2 |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||
|
Links to webpages that promote a book are almost always unacceptable per WP:EL. Book reviews that appear in a respected newspaper or magazine would usually be acceptable. See WP:V and WP:RS. -- Ronz ( talk) 18:47, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
I moved the following here for discussion: -- Ronz ( talk) 18:56, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
In 2006, after a bench trial before the honorable Judge I. Hansen, Heimerdinger was found guilty of misdemeanor criminal mischief, involving domestic violence. Heimerdinger was sentenced to 180 days in jail and fined $1,850.00. All of the 180 days was suspended and all but, $300.00 of the fine was suspended. In addition, Heimerdinger was placed on supervised probation for one year and ordered to take a 16 week domestic violence and anger management class, if ordered by Salt Lake County Probation Services. Also, Judge Hansen specifically ordered Heimerdinger, as part of the terms of his probation, to comply with all conditions of the restraining order issued in his divorce proceedings and to not possess any pornographic material. [1]
Yes, it is sourced, but I still think it's inappropriate per WP:BLP, especially WP:NPF. -- Ronz ( talk) 18:56, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
References
Of the three content tags, can the two be removed? 76.202.249.62 ( talk) 20:43, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
- "Early Life" 6 sentences.
- "Tennis Shoe Adventure Series" also just 6 sentences.
- "Film" 4 sentences.
Please do not use primary sources or Heimerdinger's own words as sole sources for sections or large amounts of information. Per WP:V, I'm removing unverified information and information dependent entirely on primary sources. -- Ronz ( talk) 20:46, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
I'm pretty busy atm or I'd do it myself:
See WP:CITE -- Ronz ( talk) 22:47, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
I was assuming that Heimerdinger would meet WP:BIO, but given the problems find any reliable sources at all about him, I think we need to be sure that it's clear we've met the notability critera and that we follow WP:NPF closely by including "only material relevant to their notability". -- Ronz ( talk) 23:46, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
Proposed: Merger of Tennis Shoes Adventure Series into this entry about the author. 76.202.249.62 ( talk) 00:16, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
Publishers are noted when discussing books and authors due to the reputations that they bring, it is akin to knowing which league or team they "play for". Here is a snippet from a paper discussing the concept that an imprint actually means something and that that knowledge of who the publisher is conveys information relevant to the work [1]:
Librarians affirm the importance of the publisher's reputation because they know how much the publisher can add to the quality of a published book, ...The reputation of the publisher serves as an indispensable shorthand in book selection. Rarely is there enough time to assess each monograph for quality or to wait for reviews to appear. Indeed, the publisher's name often provides the only known quantity that selectors have to use in making the decision. It is a necessary shorthand because selection book-inhand usually is not an option. Recent advances in Web technology now allow a selector to check the table of contents or to read a summary, but this is time-consuming. The author is, of course, another piece of information available to the selector, but the author's name may be completely unknown, as is the case with most first-time authors. One also can search to see whether the author has published other monographs, but the process soon becomes circular: with whom has he or she published, and what reputations do those publishers have?
Whether an author, or work, is published by Knopf, Ballantine Books or Little Brown is of importance and notable. There are even awards for publishers ( Batchelder Award)....17:49, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
(unindent) We're back to listing more and more publication information. [2]. What's the solution here? -- Ronz ( talk) 17:37, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
Tags are added to articles to attract other editors to help with specified problems: -- Ronz ( talk) 17:00, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
Some of this was previously discussed above -- Ronz ( talk) 23:21, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
Here's a copy of the current discussion from the section labeled "Content Tags" open above here. I tried to merge the two sections but Ronz reverted me. I'll just quote the ongoing discussion here:
Of the three content tags, can the two be removed? 76.202.249.62 ( talk) 20:43, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
- Not until we get them resolved. -- Ronz ( talk) 20:46, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
- Can you list what still needs to be resolved? Thanks 76.202.249.62 ( talk) 21:04, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
- I don't think anyone can address your concerns without you specifying what needs to be resolved. I'd love to help but I do need to know what you object to. 76.202.249.62 ( talk) 21:23, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
- Then read this talk page, get familiar with the policies and guidelines cited, and ask questions in response to the objections already given. Thanks! -- Ronz ( talk) 22:25, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
- I've read it all, and am familiar with the policies and guidelines and have already clearly indicated that I believe I've met them. I am unable to guess from here.
- There are only a few sentences in the entire article:
- "Early Life" 6 sentences.
- "Tennis Shoe Adventure Series" also just 6 sentences.
- "Film" 4 sentences.
- Which sentences do you feel are still in violation? Thanks. 76.202.249.62 ( talk) 23:02, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
- Is this your only objection? Format references to your standard and the tags can be removed? 76.202.249.62 ( talk) 00:01, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
I hope that helps, thanks 76.217.90.97 ( talk) 18:00, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
I intend to remove the tags on this article in 36 hours IF no one is willing or able to support the tags with specifics. It appears that all objections have been met - the article has been rewritten in it's entirety and whittled down to around 15+ sentences and 9 references.
If their are specific objections please note which tag, and the violating prose. All specific objections can and will be addressed. Thank you. 76.238.22.59 ( talk) 03:28, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
There is a discussion above on the tags. Please contribute to it. Thanks! -- Ronz ( talk) 03:40, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
- "Early Life" 6 sentences.
- "Books and Film" 11 sentences.
- "Novels" 1 sentence.
At this point, I'm more concerned that they'll be reintroduced since no one has yet indicated they even understand the problems we've had. Still, we've improved "Heimerdinger was active in high school theatre and drama and in competitive speech and oratory, where he excelled in Wyoming High School competitions for three years in the categories of Humor, Oratory, and Drama." but without access to the actual reference, it's hard to tell. I'm guessing the reference is actually a list of awards, which would mean that the wording is entirely WP:SYN. -- Ronz ( talk) 16:34, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
Can we now try to tackle the tag: Advertisement? Which text do you find that requires the tag? Thank you. 76.238.22.59 ( talk) 17:16, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
WP:EL, WP:SPAM, and WP:NOTLINK cover what are and are not considered as appropriate external links. -- Ronz ( talk) 18:02, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
I'm happy to see that so many people are currently involved with this article. In my opinion, the more Wikipedians involved in an article, the better the article will be.
I'm also happy this talk page has been cleaned up and reorganized. Frankly, I'm happy all my old comments are gone. It feels like a bold new world here now.
Just a couple comments then I'll let you get back to work.
1. Heimerdinger is undoubtedly notable. Wikipedia definitely needs an article about him.
2. I noticed, as I read through this page, that many of us are assuming other editors should know what we're talking about. It's wiser for me to assume that I'm being unclear, than that other people don't know how to read. Instead of saying I-already-said-that, try saying it again, more clearly this time.
3. I'm glad that changes (like removing the legal info) have been well discussed. I won't go into my reasons for why I think the legal info should be included because I'm satisfied that you all have hashed it out. No one Wikipedian's opinions are greater than the whole's.
I'm planning on leaving this article alone now. I think it is excellent that a new batch of people have taken it over and I think you're doing a great job. I'm going to go off and attend to some other part of the Wikiuniverse now. Because, frankly, I am sick of this one.
Keep up the good work! Thmazing ( talk) 23:57, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
The mention in this article of the Zarahemla movie seems intended to put the best possible spin on its importance. While BoxOfficeMojo may rank it as the 46th highest grossing Christian film, that amounts to a lifetime gross of about $292,000 according to that website. As movies go, that's not an impressive number. Perhaps we should include the actual number if it's going to be mentioned at all. There is also the problem that BoxOfficeMojo is unlikely to be a reliable source. If you check our own WP article on that site, you'll find that it is tagged for lacking sources itself. Presenting material in a balanced fashion is one of Wikipedia's virtues, and the rule should be followed here, I think. Unless coverage of the movie in reliable sources can be found, perhaps it should be omitted.
Since there probably aren't that many novelists that feature LDS themes in their work, this article has the potential to be interesting and keepable, but it should not overpromote the subject. EdJohnston ( talk) 02:46, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 07:53, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
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I have just modified 2 external links on Chris Heimerdinger. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 03:46, 8 January 2018 (UTC)