Note all contributors: This article is overflowing with names with no verification they really "started out dancing in chorus lines", the actual claim we're making by including a name. I don't want to reduce the article to uselessness by removing all the names with no reference, so I'm giving this heads-up instead. CapnZapp ( talk) 17:39, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
@ CapnZapp I am starting my research on the names listed in the section. Might you weigh in on this distinction: some of the names are associated with being a "Chorus Girl" only; not starting out dancing in a "Chorus Line". To me, there is a difference; but I think I'd better get a consensus as to what this article is really about. A Chorus Line dancer "sometimes" sings. But that does not mean a girl who sings in the chorus is necessarily dancing in a "chorus line". Tallulah Bankead for instance was a chorus girl, but she never got her start dancing in a chorus line like Constance Bennett, Louise Alexander, June Allyson or Carroll Baker. I think if this article opens the door to anyone who sings in the chorus of a show, it will be pandemonium. Maineartists ( talk) 00:35, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
A chorus girl or chorine is a performer in a chorus line (i.e. the chorus of a theatrical production)(our article's definition) then you should consider splitting the articles (or at the very least exclude "chorus girls" from inclusion here). But if this distinction isn't really upheld by sources, you should probably not worry about it either. Myself I'm no expert but I think inclusion here should be reserved for "notable performers (i.e. people with wiki articles) who started their careers as chorines". Specifically this does not include "mere" singers. Obviously many actresses on this page could sing. If they weren't chorines, though, they should be mentioned someplace other than here. Or maybe I'm misinterpreting the distinction you're trying to make. I did read Tallulah Bankead's wiki article but that wasn't very clarifying: I could not find what performance the editor that added her name had in mind when including her here. Could it be a mix-up - she appears to have played a chorus girl in at least one play (The Gold Diggers 1926) CapnZapp ( talk) 08:00, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
The first two sentences state a specific role having to do with dancing, but then slip in the singing / chorus element. By the third line, it's a free-for-all of anyone not playing a lead. Practically anyone who has started in musical theatre can be defined and listed in this article under these terms. How does this article go from "A chorus line is a large group of dancers who together perform synchronized routines" to: "all supporting players in a stage production. These supporting players often also play minor characters, move set pieces, and support the production in other unique ways"?
WP already has Ensemble (musical theatre) which specifically details the definition and states where it descended: "The modern musical chorus descends from the chorus line. The chorus line was typically composed of women (dubbed chorus girls or chorines) performing synchronized dances in a line." Once again: dancing. This article should scale back and streamline its distinction to separate the understanding. Regardless, I am going to trim the section to only notable performers with WP articles who started their careers in a Chorus line as a dancer; and preface the section as such. Tallulah will not make the cut. Maineartists ( talk) 09:45, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
What is your rationale for adding this seemingly random collection of actresses, Wonderboy?
If you do not engage in discussion, I am afraid your additions won't stand. CapnZapp ( talk) 08:14, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
Because the article referenced other forms of theatrical terms not associated with a traditional dancing chorus line, names were included that did not fit the definition. These names were associated with having started out cast as an actual "chorus girl" in a film, a solo dancer in a night club or venue, part of a present day ensemble of a Broadway chorus (having nothing to do with a chorus line), etc. The names that are included now started their careers dancing in an actual "chorus line" as defined in this article. Either their articles states this or they are listed in other WP articles such as Ziegfeld girls, Goldwyn Girls, Gaiety Girls. Subsequently, terms and content have been moved from the lede into the article for better description, and misleading content / terms that are covered in other WP articles have been removed such as Ensemble cast (which is associated with cinema and television) which has lead to the inclusion of performer names that should not be included in this article. Maineartists ( talk) 16:33, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
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Note all contributors: This article is overflowing with names with no verification they really "started out dancing in chorus lines", the actual claim we're making by including a name. I don't want to reduce the article to uselessness by removing all the names with no reference, so I'm giving this heads-up instead. CapnZapp ( talk) 17:39, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
@ CapnZapp I am starting my research on the names listed in the section. Might you weigh in on this distinction: some of the names are associated with being a "Chorus Girl" only; not starting out dancing in a "Chorus Line". To me, there is a difference; but I think I'd better get a consensus as to what this article is really about. A Chorus Line dancer "sometimes" sings. But that does not mean a girl who sings in the chorus is necessarily dancing in a "chorus line". Tallulah Bankead for instance was a chorus girl, but she never got her start dancing in a chorus line like Constance Bennett, Louise Alexander, June Allyson or Carroll Baker. I think if this article opens the door to anyone who sings in the chorus of a show, it will be pandemonium. Maineartists ( talk) 00:35, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
A chorus girl or chorine is a performer in a chorus line (i.e. the chorus of a theatrical production)(our article's definition) then you should consider splitting the articles (or at the very least exclude "chorus girls" from inclusion here). But if this distinction isn't really upheld by sources, you should probably not worry about it either. Myself I'm no expert but I think inclusion here should be reserved for "notable performers (i.e. people with wiki articles) who started their careers as chorines". Specifically this does not include "mere" singers. Obviously many actresses on this page could sing. If they weren't chorines, though, they should be mentioned someplace other than here. Or maybe I'm misinterpreting the distinction you're trying to make. I did read Tallulah Bankead's wiki article but that wasn't very clarifying: I could not find what performance the editor that added her name had in mind when including her here. Could it be a mix-up - she appears to have played a chorus girl in at least one play (The Gold Diggers 1926) CapnZapp ( talk) 08:00, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
The first two sentences state a specific role having to do with dancing, but then slip in the singing / chorus element. By the third line, it's a free-for-all of anyone not playing a lead. Practically anyone who has started in musical theatre can be defined and listed in this article under these terms. How does this article go from "A chorus line is a large group of dancers who together perform synchronized routines" to: "all supporting players in a stage production. These supporting players often also play minor characters, move set pieces, and support the production in other unique ways"?
WP already has Ensemble (musical theatre) which specifically details the definition and states where it descended: "The modern musical chorus descends from the chorus line. The chorus line was typically composed of women (dubbed chorus girls or chorines) performing synchronized dances in a line." Once again: dancing. This article should scale back and streamline its distinction to separate the understanding. Regardless, I am going to trim the section to only notable performers with WP articles who started their careers in a Chorus line as a dancer; and preface the section as such. Tallulah will not make the cut. Maineartists ( talk) 09:45, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
What is your rationale for adding this seemingly random collection of actresses, Wonderboy?
If you do not engage in discussion, I am afraid your additions won't stand. CapnZapp ( talk) 08:14, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
Because the article referenced other forms of theatrical terms not associated with a traditional dancing chorus line, names were included that did not fit the definition. These names were associated with having started out cast as an actual "chorus girl" in a film, a solo dancer in a night club or venue, part of a present day ensemble of a Broadway chorus (having nothing to do with a chorus line), etc. The names that are included now started their careers dancing in an actual "chorus line" as defined in this article. Either their articles states this or they are listed in other WP articles such as Ziegfeld girls, Goldwyn Girls, Gaiety Girls. Subsequently, terms and content have been moved from the lede into the article for better description, and misleading content / terms that are covered in other WP articles have been removed such as Ensemble cast (which is associated with cinema and television) which has lead to the inclusion of performer names that should not be included in this article. Maineartists ( talk) 16:33, 11 May 2023 (UTC)