This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I'll add satellite photos illustrating the coastal Chinook (the sections I've just put in) when I can find them, copyright-free somewhere. Suggestions?
References also forthcoming for the Chinook-Wind First Nations story; the weatherman usage is common enough on the local airwaves to not be able to cite anything other than excerpts from newscasts, or some guy you knew on a pier or a ferry somewhere who used the word. Searching the newspaper archives is an option, but they charge for that these days.
PS I'll admit my style is a bit too casual or chatty (and sometimes verbose) but hopefully it's readable and not outside the desired neutralities of wikification etc. I'm working on writing wikifully more and more as I go on.
Skookum1 04:27, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
Okay, please stop the revert war on the photos. Since there are two options that are currently being selected, why don't we just have a quick poll as to which one people prefer? Please vote in the support section below your favourite option. --
JamesTeterenko 05:02, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
CalgaryWikifan and Elpoca both seem to have reverted each other's edits to their own versions. Please note that wikipedia has a Three-revert rule against excessive reverts. The policy states that an editor must not perform more than three reversions, in whole or in part, on a single Wikipedia article within a 24 hour period. Usually, when you can expect that somebody has not changed his or her mind about what should be in the article, you can expect that your revert will cause another revert of the other editor. The strategy to revert until the other one gets bored and goes away is not recommended. Are you satisfied with JamesTeterenko's approach? I'd prefer to hear your opinion before the voting. -- Fasten 6:02, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
I don't have a problem discarding the vote. So, I have actually deleted the voting sections above. Let's have a discussion about it to reach consensus. I should have started this way instead of initiating the vote. I do agree with you that Image:Chinook arch, Calgary, Canada.jpg does a better job conveying a chinook arch than the three current pictures. I am willing to listen other arguments to change my opinion. As for getting other people's opinions, that isn't too hard. We could post a notice on relevant Wikiprojects (e.g. WikiProject Ecology or even the Canadian wikipedians' notice board. There are a lot of people willing to toss in an opinion around here. -- JamesTeterenko 21:52, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
Come over here. This is getting unnecessarily personal. CalgaryWikifan: While Elpoca wasn't as calm as ve could have been your tone was more aggressive. Please refrain from personal attacks. You are not making any progress towards ending the dispute this way.
When Elpoca states that ve is willing to accept the decision of a mediator that is not in contradiction to the observation that ve may have a bias towards including vis pictures. You do appear to have the same bias towards including your picture and may accept the decision of a mediator anyway. -- Fasten 14:47, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
CalgaryWikifan : You repeatedly stated (e.g. here) that you believe intervention by administrators and your stated acceptance for the ruling of an administrator is related to mediation. This is not the case. Mediators do not have to be administrators and administrators do not have to be mediators.
I do agree that this matter is silly, but the solution was already offered to Elpoca, but Elpoca is trying to force it to ArbCom. *shrugs* CalgaryWikifan 02:51, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
CalgaryWikifan : You critized Elpoca at the fringe of making a personal attack for making a bold edit.
To quote WP:BOLD:
Please don't attack Elpoca for making a bold edit. The problem starts when somebody reverts, instead of discussing the issue, and does not anticipate a further revert by the other editor. You seem to have both reverted quickly. -- Fasten 18:35, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
Actually, this has gone on long enough. Although I honestly don't feel it would be in the best interests of the article, I'm willing to compromise. How about we simply reduce the images to three: photo 1, photo 2, and photo 3? Would this be an acceptable? Elpoca 04:06, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
There has been the sensible proposal of putting all the pictures on Wikimedia Commons and add a reference to the content on commons, e.g. with {{ Commons}}:
While you can do that this leaves open the question which pictures to include in the article. I do think the three pictures already look crammed and maybe we can try to reduce this to two pictures in this article?
Please add your reasons why any of the pictures is a candidate or why it is not a candidate to the individual pictures below and please sign your remarks. Dogbreathcanada: I hope you don't mind me reformatting your contribution to the debate. -- Fasten 14:48, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
There seems to be a preference for pictures #1 and #3 and the arguments for pictures #1 and #3 seem more conclusive.
Is anybody against selecting pictures #1 and #3 for inclusion into the article? -- Fasten 14:14, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
You don't seem to need mediation anymore. Case closed. -- Fasten 20:53, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
An additional image has been added to this article in the interim. To avoid another disagreement about which images are "best" (or about how many images are appropriate for this article) I've removed my image and will place it in Wikimedia Commons. In other words, I give up! Elpoca 19:48, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
This article is lacking references (one link to xmas snow statistics and one to an amateur website?). I am particularly skeptical of the claims regarding the tsh- pronunciation on the west coast. At least nowadays, I think that pronunciation has all but disappeared in favor of sh-. Pineapple Express, on the other hand, is a widely used term. heqs 11:02, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
It was me, actually, and although I speak French that wasn't why I put that in. I know First Nations/Native American users of the Jargon, where of course this word came from, and I come from "old country" up around Lillooet and in the Valley (Fraser Valley; Ruskin, British Columbia, went to Mission High); I'd always said the name of the language with the "church" sound, and it happens that the surviving creole form of the Jargon spoken in Grand Ronde, Oregon spells the name of the language out as Tshinuk-wawa; which is the original form of the pronunciation - the word migrated from the Lower Columbia to Alberta, and to here, with the fur trade, which of course was largely run by French-Canadian and Metis guys, even though the bosses were Scots and the occasional Englishman. When I've heard newspeople in BC use it (for either the fish or the wind) with the shinook pronunciation, I'd assumed it had been imported "back over the mountains" from the frenchified Albertan pronunciation; but I guess it's so entrenched in BC now - and even in Washington - by whatever reason, that the sh pronunciation is a given here now as well. I'll ask whatsisname that does the Global weather broadcasts what he uses; the CBC implicitly uses the shinook pronunciation, partly because of the francophone context of the Holy Mother Corp; I'm actually meeting with Mark Forsythe of CBC Almanac tomorrow about something else but I'll check with him. The "church" pronunciation is definitely the older one in BC/PacNW, though....(btw I've often noticed a French affectation in the US, notably in New York where French usages are popular in business names, and not just for restaurants; I always get a kick out of it because in some ways the Americans find French more fashionable to use (until freedom fries came along), or use/adapt it in a different context, than Canadians do; this indirectly applies to the shinook Seattle pronunciation; or I'm guessing it does. Back with more on this after some legwork Skookum1 17:34, 20 July 2006 (UTC) And re Khirad's comment on WA and OR, maybe the "church" pronuncation is decidedly Native American in flavour down there; it definitely is the "correct" pronunciation to Chinook Jargon linguists, that's for sure. Skookum1 17:36, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I've lived in the Puget Sound region for over 50 years and have NEVER heard anyone pronounce 'chinook'. It is ALWAYS 'shinook'. See also: Chinook Salmon. Chehalis River. Why does ONE person get to make the decision when several people here disagree with them? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:603:4A80:5870:D85E:40F1:23E0:ADFC ( talk) 19:08, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
I’ve lived my whole life in Victoria, British Columbia and am a regular fisherman. I have never once heard anyone, of either first nations or European ancestry, say the word chinook with the /ch/ in church. it would be stupid to pronounce it differently from the chinook salmon which is exclusively pronounced with /sh/. a dated reference book on on First Nations pronunciation cannot be used to say the Pacific Northwest speaks that way. the source provided is not even an English language pronunciation. and it’s incredibly obscure or non-existent throughout the entire coastal Pacific-Northwest. if you said it that way, people would assume you’re a foreigner and probably correct you. Definitelycarlschuette ( talk) 23:00, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
15 sections seems like a bit much for this article. Can some sections be combined? — Rob ( talk) 18:17, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
Amen, and good lord what a messed-up article.
Chinooks are not more common in Canada than in the United States; Montana, Wyoming, and Colorado are famous for their chinooks--often several a winter--and this weather phenomenon (and its benefits and detractions) is a major part of life west of the Great Divide in the U.S. West.
The map showing the chinook belt in Alberta shows WHERE CHINOOKS ARE THE MOST COMMON IN **CANADA**, not North America as a whole; this article is extremely biased.
The 'Pineapple Express' of Northern California, Oregon, Washington, and British Columbia is actually a "monsoonal flow" in meteorological terms, and Western North America in general is subject to monsoonal flows off the Pacific Ocean, bringing warm air into the inland West of the U.S. and rains to places like Yuma and Phoenix.
Perhaps to shorten this article, a disambiguation page can be made, and two 'chinook' articles written--one about the adiabatic winds (i.e. Foehn winds) that affect Alberta, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado... and one concerning the monsoonal flow winds--which are NOT primarily adiabatic unless they are secondarily accompanied by adiabatic warming/drying--that hit the Pacific Northwest.
I have never heard anybody in Oregon or Washington call the latter--the Pinapple Express monsoonal flow of warm/wet air a "chinoook." Ever. However, the word chinook and the phenomenon it refers to is commonplace and well-known in Colorado, Montana, and Wyoming... and extremely so. Not only Alberta gets chinooks! and not only Canada gets the most/strongest. This article is extremely biased. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.175.189.187 ( talk) 05:43, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
I have lived in the Pacific Northwest nearly all of my life, and have never heard of a "Chinook Wind" ... I've heard of "Pineapple Express." Further, I've asked my local friends and family in the Puget Sound region, and they -- as I -- think of the Chinook salmon when someone says "a Chinook." None thought of the wind (nor were any familiar with the 'pineapple express' wind being referred to as a 'Chinook wind.' -- Chibiabos 02:04, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
Well, it's definitely a modern Canadian media usage though not as common anymore as pineapple express has become; but I know I've heard it on KVOS-TV Bellingham, albeit that has a largely Canadian viewership and carries BC news content. Apparently there's a difference, technically, between a pineapple express and the classic coastal Chinook, but this last round of rains (the real wet stuff a week ago, not the intermittent stuff since) that came definitely out of Hawaii in a big stream, rather than across the Pacific as in the model in the wiki article on pineapple express. I don't know the provenance/origin of the term except that it was a reference to the wind coming from the direction of the country of the Chinooks (southwest, even from Vanc BC, at least in nautical terms if not compass-lines) as likewise its context in the Prairies/Great Plains, where it also named because it comes from the country of the Chinooks; I think the coastal usage is near invariably "a Chinook" as opposed to "Chinook wind" - "a Chinook" refers to the weather system, the volume of rain and where it's coming from; it's not a wind that's being described. Try it - out on some of the guys down on the fishboats as it may yet survive in maritime slang down there, i.e. what "chinook" means when it's weather that's being talked about vs. fish, as it certainly does on the BC Coast, even in the yacht-y set. And yes, when we're talking about fish if we say "Chinook", we mean a salmon too. Skookum1 02:39, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
Skookum1 21:53, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
I live in SW Washington. I have heard of both the fish and the wind, but I hadn't known what the wind was before I read the article. I had noticed that most of the high winds in the area bring warm weather. As for pronunciation, I have never heard Chinook with a hard "Ch." All the Chinooks, whether winds, fish, helicopters or Indian tribes are referred to with a "sh." A rather interesting turn of events, if the Fort Vancouver area used to pronounce it "correctly."
Oh, for sure, it's "tshinuk" in the aboriginal-original, and also quite often how it's pronounced up here (fish or wind or whatever). The creolized Chinook Jargon in Grand Ronde OR uses, for example "Tshinuk Wawa" to mean the Chinook Jargon. As for Fort Vancouver, and OR non-natives in general, it could very well be that the French influence there "hung on" in the new settlers, who picked up the Metis way of using local words, of which shinook is obviously French, given its native and definitely tshi- original form; that in and of itself is interesting if true - that American settlers picked up the French/company way of pronouncing the word, as opposed to the native way. Either that or the media inundation from Alberta/Eastern Canada of the frenchified shi- pronunciation somehow got transmitted south of the line...in BC people seem to use both; the tshi- sound, though, my guess, marks somebody from BC rather than somebody who encountered the word as part of the Canadian national mythology, i.e. as part of the Alberta landscape; few non-BC Canadians realize we have a different meaning for Chinook in the weather sense; they think it's about Alberta to the point where most people believe the myth that it's an aboriginal word for "snow eater" (even in the CBC style guide, it seems) No Peiganor Tsuu Tina that I've met has ever owned up to it, though.... Skookum1 18:31, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
Not a modern reference but see '
http://coastsalishmap.org/north_wind_and_storm_wind.htm this] for another aborignal usage, here clearly for a warm south wind. And as for polling 20 people, it's not like you should ask at hte mall or the starbuck's; go down to the fishing docks or a marina and ask the sailors/fishermen.
Skookum1 (
talk) 21:56, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
here is a recipe you'll be needing. Skookum1 ( talk) 19:34, 14 February 2008 (UTC) No modern-era bits yet, still waiting to hear from certain weathermen. But one of the online sites I contacted, the Weather Doctor Keith Heidorn, got back to me with [ http://docs.lib.noaa.gov/rescue/mwr/016/mwr-016-01-0019.pdf this] from the January 1888 Monthly Weather Review; note in the section above the section on the Chinook Wind, also, the bit on Oregon weather in the left-hand column in the upper page; that's a usage showing a coastal context to the Chinook wind, and in the Chinook wind section the term's origin in the Columbia area is stated. This goes along with the previous mention about being winds on the Lower Columbia, and jibes with the non-Columbia usages from aboriginal stories on the Duwamish and Lillooet River areass. There'll be more, including modern cites; but there's now two non-aboriginal sources/usages and two aboriginal sources/usages attested to. Probably not enough for you, and the modern usage I'm talking about obviously isn't current enough to turn up readily, but it's out there..... Skookum1 ( talk) 19:03, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
This article states the pineapple brings welcome warmth in the winter, but this is not quite the case. The rain on snow quickly wipes out mountain snowpack, and if colder rains don't return, leads to a summer drout (very little rain in Seattle in summer.) In addition, in 1996, a pineapple express dumped huge amounts of rain on week-old snow and the weight on the rain-laden snow caused several roofs to collapse in the storm (including a school near Woodinville), not to mention street flooding due to ice-clogged storm drains.
Pineapple expresses are not usually a good thing as this article implies.
The www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum reference and teh aasociated as-if-factual claim that "Chinook is a Pacific Northwest Indian word meaning 'snow-eater'" I've removed as a-factual, and yet another demonstration that an allegedly reliable source is not necessariliy a good source; and as it's a forum that's coming from it's not WP:RS anyway; and note this disclaimed on the forum's main page:
'Nuff said. Skookum1 ( talk) 16:21, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
Right now, I feel as if the article gives too much reference to the Canadian/U.S. Northwest viewpoint. Would it be possible to incorporate Alaska and/or central European viewpoints into the article? Right now, it seems as if the European chinooks in particular are overlooked. JKBrooks85 ( talk) 12:19, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
I dispute the Anchorage AK/Cook Inlet description as mischaracterizing the wind the Pineapple Express does hit us, living inland, I rather hope it dumps on the coast and the intervening 15 or so miles of mountains dries and warms the air, producing surprisingly warm nights. The INLAND Chinook/Foehn wind is often caused by a southerly dip of the jet stream routing the tropical systems north, impacting the Gulf Coast and Panhandle. It doesn't have to be a Pineapple express (which, if makes it over, dumps a metric ton of snow) but is often caused by one. This leads to a local differentiation between them, where a tropic system causing mild conditions and heavy snow, very rarely rain, is called Pineapple Express. Contrasted to a system that does not carry it's moisture inland, instead causing a dry warming wind tied to the Chinook/Foehn wind process. So, windy, warm, light rain, no rain, major melts, no/mild night time temp drop, Chinook; mild - moderate temperature, lots of moisture (snow/rain) Pineapple Express. When the seaward side of the Chugach is having a blizzard, and the inland side is 50 degrees above normal, because of a tropical system, it is pretty impressive, especially because the distance may only be 10-20 miles between the extremes — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.137.244.239 ( talk) 07:02, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
One critical aspect of chinook formation is overlooked in the explanation given in the article. There is a lot of energy (latent heat) tied up in changing the phase of water from gas to liquid. This 'latent heat' is released as water condenses (liquid water has a lower energy state than gaeous water).
As wet masses of air are forced up the windward side of the mountains, they cool adiabatically and water vapor condenses, releasing the latent heat of evaporation of that water into the air. Thus the air that arrives at the top of the mountain has less water in it, but is warmer than one would expect from adiabatic cooling alone. As the air is forced back down the leeward side, the relative humidity drops (as the air warms), and the air is warmed. Without the extra heat from the water vapor, the air would not be warmer on the leeward side than on the windward side rather it would undergo the same amount of adiabatic warming as it did cooling and would be the same temperature. Bobcat167 ( talk) 15:37, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
I agree with Bobcat, the physical explanation is not well presented. I agree with the concepts described by Bobcat but I don't necessarily agree with the wording. I find the word adiabatic problematic. In referring to the the wet air, they "cool adiabatically", substituting for adiabatic, they cool without added heating or cooling. This sound redundant and unnecessary. When the moist air mass becomes cooled at higher elevations, the latent heat of the moisture is released. Simple and I argue correct. This latent heat results in a warm and dry air mass. I don't mind references to the absence of an energy gain or loss, but I don't feel this meaning is connoted by the word adiabatic. The release of latent heat is not specific to Chinook winds, all precipitation results in a release of the latent heat of vaporization. The difference is the mountains force the moist air to higher elevations and the down flow from the mountains carries this warm air down. Normally, the heat released during precipitation is released high in the atmosphere and is not felt by those on the ground. Petedskier ( talk) 14:39, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
Some good observations here. Ideally, "adiabatic" would describe a dry uniform gas undergoing isentropic compression or expansion. What is necessary for this effect is that there isn't any heat transfer out of or into the system. Heat tranfer within the system (the air mass) is complicated by a phase change (condesation) and the mass transfer with its sensible heat out of the system (precipitation).
The system (air mass) is not surrounded by a perfectly insulated barrier, but the air mass is so large that, in effect, there core of the air mass is where any adiabatic process would occur(??).
The heating of the air mass via isentropic compression under its own weight on the leeward side of the Mountains is probably much easier to desribe.
If I can find a concise reference or two, I'll get back.
Pete318 ( talk) 23:54, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
Also, the article starts by defining an obscure thing (chinook) in terms of an even lesser-known thing (foehn). Ridiculous. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.147.122.14 ( talk) 17:51, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
As someone who lives many hours north of Grande Prairie, I changed where the article had stated the northern boundaries of the chinook is. I live in the High Level region and we get at least one chinook wind annually, and this is several hundred kilometers north of Grande Prairie, the city initially named as the northernmost point of chinook. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.38.159.33 ( talk) 00:36, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
My mother, born 1926 in Vancouver, was taught by her mother and grandmother, plus in school, about the Chinook winds, named by the French fur traders in the 1600's or so. The winds generally have nothing to do with major air systems from far out in the Pacific, but mostly just from the usual coastal breezes common to so many large water bodies, including the great lakes.
The NW Washington city of Bellingham and the city of Vancouver, BC, Canada across the border are on right on the coast, protected by a mass of islands, some rain forest ones. The two cities are in a fertile farming and dairy production mountain valley rising abruptly into the Cascade Range which is highlighted by the Mount Baker mile-high active volcano on the American side. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Baker As you get near the Cascade foothills, you frequently see clouds hovering close to the ground - strange sight.
This valley is the pathway to the ocean of the Fraser River, thus the Fraser River Valley. The warming moisture heavy winds gently and almost constantly, all through the year, travel up the valley, sweeping the horrible non-PC Vancouver smog up to Chilliwack where the smog pools up and becomes dense again as the wind sweeps up the mountain sides. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraser_River
I live near the border, nearly next to the Cascade foothills and mountains beyond. In the second week of March this year, we got quite a few days of drizzle, but the mountains accumulated ten feet of fresh snow - that is how much moisture can be lost during the winter from a wet enough weather system moving in. On the far side of the mountains, after the winds had lost their moisture and been warmed as a result, they, now dry, swooped down the eastern slopes creating the warming Chinooks of the prairie regions of the northern plains.
Now in that narrow section of this stretch of coastal region, the weather is very moist, high humidity, cloudy and rainy/misty nearly year round, but the temperatures are very mild, seldom below freezing, seldom snowing more than twice in a winter, usually above 40 during the winters, seldom over 80 in the summer, rarely more than 3 days over 90. This is a climate of the Northwest "socks and sandals", hoodies, windbreakers and billed caps (to keep the mist off your face) most the year round.
So you could say that the breezes bring a relative winter warmth of different kinds, wet to us, dry to the east of the mountains. In California, San Fransisco has similar weather. All along the California mountain coastline, there is rain as the wet air rises, then harsh desert as the moisture-stripped winds descend. Down there, the winds off the mountains is called the Diablo wind (devil wind) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diablo_wind
On the article page, there is some strange suggestion that the article be globalized. Nonsense. The winds are only called Chinook and Diablo in the Western North American continent. Now, the PHENOMENA is a recognized pattern found anywhere in the world where there are mountains and the prevailing winds dump moisture on the mountains and foster warm dry regions on the far sides. This type of weather pattern is known by many names the entire world over -- see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foehn_wind and click on Local examples http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foehn_wind#Local_examples
So the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foehn_wind provides the "universalizing" of the weather pattern concept. Any more would be in the weather section of Wikipedia covering how various weather systems are named which is possibly fairly constant and definitely scientifically descriptive.
Nice place to live, even if there was too much sun the past two summers and this winter has had way too many days below 40 degrees. 172.190.17.204 ( talk) 09:46, 28 March 2011 (UTC) 09:46, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
The "Chinook wind" seen in BC, WA, OR and CA is a completely different weather phenomenon that that on the eastern slopes of the Rockies, which has an alternate name, Pineapple Express. Because of this, we should make no mention of the Pineapple Express usage except for a hatnote at the top of the page (This article is about a weather phenomenon east of the Rocky Mountains. For the phenomenon on the US and Canadian Pacific coast, see Pineapple express). Who's with me? D O N D E groovily Talk to me 20:21, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
Many people who do not have a technical background are mystified, or at least ambiguous, in their understanding of the heat pump concept. Ironically they accept the concept of refrigeration almost intuitively. Yet saying that a heat pump is a referigerator in reverse does nothing to help the situation.
So I thought, is there an example of the heat pump effect in nature?
Best that I could to date is consider that there is a hidden ("latent" is too ambiguous) air standard cycle (Based on the Brayton/ Reverse Brayton cycle) action in a Chinook wind.
If dry air were to approach a mountain range during the night at atmospheric pressure and 20 degree C, cool by expansion to one half an atmosphere, to a temperature below ground temperature, then the heat content of that air mass should increase. Then if that air mass were to compress back to one atmosphere, over this ficticious mountain range, the temperature should be greater than the 20 degree starting temperature.
This can't be considered for the main article unless some citations can be located - no luck so far in either the Thermodynamic or meteorlogical pages??
Pete318 ( talk) 15:20, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
The "How Chinooks occur" section states that moist and dry air have different adibatic rates. That's not true. The real reason the temperature of air going over a mountain in a foen wind increases in temperature on the leeward side more than it decreases in temperature on the windward side is because condensation releases heat. Moist air that is not moist enough to condense will decrease in temperature from going over the mountain the same amount as completely dry air would. Blackbombchu ( talk) 14:37, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
Is this wind a hot and dry wind or is it tropical? The beginning of this article should be clear about things like that. I think that folk-etymology is less important. I suppose the question is answered, but I think it should be more direct instead of reading like an interesting piece of trivia. Sam Tomato ( talk) 05:10, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
The use of the word adiabatic throughout this entire article is not correct. The definition of an adiabatic process is one in which there is no heat transfer. Therefore, the term 'adiabatic heating' and 'adiabatic cooling' are not correct. I agree that the process is adiabatic and that the temperature does change, but 'temperature increase' is not the same as 'heating up' and a 'temperature decrease' is not the same as 'cooling down.' I would like to substantially edit the article to fix the wording and improve the overall explanation. Before I do that, however, I would like to hear from other editors for any major input (or potential objections). JCMPC ( talk) 01:39, 5 October 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on Chinook wind. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 01:47, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
I've lived in Calgary my entire life and have never heard of any of the folklore items said to be familiar to most Southern Albertans. I've asked around, and no one I know has heard these tales. They are likely popular among a specific family, social group, or smaller community at best. Tklow ( talk) 02:30, 4 January 2018 (UTC)tklow
Fohn wind 41.13.78.213 ( talk) 20:21, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
I don't know if this deserves inclusion, but there is a short story called "The Chinook" by Richard Broderick, pp. 3~11 in Where Past Meets Present: Modern Colorado Short Stories, edited by James B. Hemesath, University Press of Colorado: Niwot, Colorado, 1994; originally published in Night Sale, by Robert Broderick, 1982 ((New Rivers Press). 164.47.179.32 ( talk) 22:03, 27 June 2023 (UTC) 164.47.179.32 ( talk) 22:06, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I'll add satellite photos illustrating the coastal Chinook (the sections I've just put in) when I can find them, copyright-free somewhere. Suggestions?
References also forthcoming for the Chinook-Wind First Nations story; the weatherman usage is common enough on the local airwaves to not be able to cite anything other than excerpts from newscasts, or some guy you knew on a pier or a ferry somewhere who used the word. Searching the newspaper archives is an option, but they charge for that these days.
PS I'll admit my style is a bit too casual or chatty (and sometimes verbose) but hopefully it's readable and not outside the desired neutralities of wikification etc. I'm working on writing wikifully more and more as I go on.
Skookum1 04:27, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
Okay, please stop the revert war on the photos. Since there are two options that are currently being selected, why don't we just have a quick poll as to which one people prefer? Please vote in the support section below your favourite option. --
JamesTeterenko 05:02, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
CalgaryWikifan and Elpoca both seem to have reverted each other's edits to their own versions. Please note that wikipedia has a Three-revert rule against excessive reverts. The policy states that an editor must not perform more than three reversions, in whole or in part, on a single Wikipedia article within a 24 hour period. Usually, when you can expect that somebody has not changed his or her mind about what should be in the article, you can expect that your revert will cause another revert of the other editor. The strategy to revert until the other one gets bored and goes away is not recommended. Are you satisfied with JamesTeterenko's approach? I'd prefer to hear your opinion before the voting. -- Fasten 6:02, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
I don't have a problem discarding the vote. So, I have actually deleted the voting sections above. Let's have a discussion about it to reach consensus. I should have started this way instead of initiating the vote. I do agree with you that Image:Chinook arch, Calgary, Canada.jpg does a better job conveying a chinook arch than the three current pictures. I am willing to listen other arguments to change my opinion. As for getting other people's opinions, that isn't too hard. We could post a notice on relevant Wikiprojects (e.g. WikiProject Ecology or even the Canadian wikipedians' notice board. There are a lot of people willing to toss in an opinion around here. -- JamesTeterenko 21:52, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
Come over here. This is getting unnecessarily personal. CalgaryWikifan: While Elpoca wasn't as calm as ve could have been your tone was more aggressive. Please refrain from personal attacks. You are not making any progress towards ending the dispute this way.
When Elpoca states that ve is willing to accept the decision of a mediator that is not in contradiction to the observation that ve may have a bias towards including vis pictures. You do appear to have the same bias towards including your picture and may accept the decision of a mediator anyway. -- Fasten 14:47, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
CalgaryWikifan : You repeatedly stated (e.g. here) that you believe intervention by administrators and your stated acceptance for the ruling of an administrator is related to mediation. This is not the case. Mediators do not have to be administrators and administrators do not have to be mediators.
I do agree that this matter is silly, but the solution was already offered to Elpoca, but Elpoca is trying to force it to ArbCom. *shrugs* CalgaryWikifan 02:51, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
CalgaryWikifan : You critized Elpoca at the fringe of making a personal attack for making a bold edit.
To quote WP:BOLD:
Please don't attack Elpoca for making a bold edit. The problem starts when somebody reverts, instead of discussing the issue, and does not anticipate a further revert by the other editor. You seem to have both reverted quickly. -- Fasten 18:35, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
Actually, this has gone on long enough. Although I honestly don't feel it would be in the best interests of the article, I'm willing to compromise. How about we simply reduce the images to three: photo 1, photo 2, and photo 3? Would this be an acceptable? Elpoca 04:06, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
There has been the sensible proposal of putting all the pictures on Wikimedia Commons and add a reference to the content on commons, e.g. with {{ Commons}}:
While you can do that this leaves open the question which pictures to include in the article. I do think the three pictures already look crammed and maybe we can try to reduce this to two pictures in this article?
Please add your reasons why any of the pictures is a candidate or why it is not a candidate to the individual pictures below and please sign your remarks. Dogbreathcanada: I hope you don't mind me reformatting your contribution to the debate. -- Fasten 14:48, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
There seems to be a preference for pictures #1 and #3 and the arguments for pictures #1 and #3 seem more conclusive.
Is anybody against selecting pictures #1 and #3 for inclusion into the article? -- Fasten 14:14, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
You don't seem to need mediation anymore. Case closed. -- Fasten 20:53, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
An additional image has been added to this article in the interim. To avoid another disagreement about which images are "best" (or about how many images are appropriate for this article) I've removed my image and will place it in Wikimedia Commons. In other words, I give up! Elpoca 19:48, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
This article is lacking references (one link to xmas snow statistics and one to an amateur website?). I am particularly skeptical of the claims regarding the tsh- pronunciation on the west coast. At least nowadays, I think that pronunciation has all but disappeared in favor of sh-. Pineapple Express, on the other hand, is a widely used term. heqs 11:02, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
It was me, actually, and although I speak French that wasn't why I put that in. I know First Nations/Native American users of the Jargon, where of course this word came from, and I come from "old country" up around Lillooet and in the Valley (Fraser Valley; Ruskin, British Columbia, went to Mission High); I'd always said the name of the language with the "church" sound, and it happens that the surviving creole form of the Jargon spoken in Grand Ronde, Oregon spells the name of the language out as Tshinuk-wawa; which is the original form of the pronunciation - the word migrated from the Lower Columbia to Alberta, and to here, with the fur trade, which of course was largely run by French-Canadian and Metis guys, even though the bosses were Scots and the occasional Englishman. When I've heard newspeople in BC use it (for either the fish or the wind) with the shinook pronunciation, I'd assumed it had been imported "back over the mountains" from the frenchified Albertan pronunciation; but I guess it's so entrenched in BC now - and even in Washington - by whatever reason, that the sh pronunciation is a given here now as well. I'll ask whatsisname that does the Global weather broadcasts what he uses; the CBC implicitly uses the shinook pronunciation, partly because of the francophone context of the Holy Mother Corp; I'm actually meeting with Mark Forsythe of CBC Almanac tomorrow about something else but I'll check with him. The "church" pronunciation is definitely the older one in BC/PacNW, though....(btw I've often noticed a French affectation in the US, notably in New York where French usages are popular in business names, and not just for restaurants; I always get a kick out of it because in some ways the Americans find French more fashionable to use (until freedom fries came along), or use/adapt it in a different context, than Canadians do; this indirectly applies to the shinook Seattle pronunciation; or I'm guessing it does. Back with more on this after some legwork Skookum1 17:34, 20 July 2006 (UTC) And re Khirad's comment on WA and OR, maybe the "church" pronuncation is decidedly Native American in flavour down there; it definitely is the "correct" pronunciation to Chinook Jargon linguists, that's for sure. Skookum1 17:36, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I've lived in the Puget Sound region for over 50 years and have NEVER heard anyone pronounce 'chinook'. It is ALWAYS 'shinook'. See also: Chinook Salmon. Chehalis River. Why does ONE person get to make the decision when several people here disagree with them? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:603:4A80:5870:D85E:40F1:23E0:ADFC ( talk) 19:08, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
I’ve lived my whole life in Victoria, British Columbia and am a regular fisherman. I have never once heard anyone, of either first nations or European ancestry, say the word chinook with the /ch/ in church. it would be stupid to pronounce it differently from the chinook salmon which is exclusively pronounced with /sh/. a dated reference book on on First Nations pronunciation cannot be used to say the Pacific Northwest speaks that way. the source provided is not even an English language pronunciation. and it’s incredibly obscure or non-existent throughout the entire coastal Pacific-Northwest. if you said it that way, people would assume you’re a foreigner and probably correct you. Definitelycarlschuette ( talk) 23:00, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
15 sections seems like a bit much for this article. Can some sections be combined? — Rob ( talk) 18:17, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
Amen, and good lord what a messed-up article.
Chinooks are not more common in Canada than in the United States; Montana, Wyoming, and Colorado are famous for their chinooks--often several a winter--and this weather phenomenon (and its benefits and detractions) is a major part of life west of the Great Divide in the U.S. West.
The map showing the chinook belt in Alberta shows WHERE CHINOOKS ARE THE MOST COMMON IN **CANADA**, not North America as a whole; this article is extremely biased.
The 'Pineapple Express' of Northern California, Oregon, Washington, and British Columbia is actually a "monsoonal flow" in meteorological terms, and Western North America in general is subject to monsoonal flows off the Pacific Ocean, bringing warm air into the inland West of the U.S. and rains to places like Yuma and Phoenix.
Perhaps to shorten this article, a disambiguation page can be made, and two 'chinook' articles written--one about the adiabatic winds (i.e. Foehn winds) that affect Alberta, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado... and one concerning the monsoonal flow winds--which are NOT primarily adiabatic unless they are secondarily accompanied by adiabatic warming/drying--that hit the Pacific Northwest.
I have never heard anybody in Oregon or Washington call the latter--the Pinapple Express monsoonal flow of warm/wet air a "chinoook." Ever. However, the word chinook and the phenomenon it refers to is commonplace and well-known in Colorado, Montana, and Wyoming... and extremely so. Not only Alberta gets chinooks! and not only Canada gets the most/strongest. This article is extremely biased. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.175.189.187 ( talk) 05:43, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
I have lived in the Pacific Northwest nearly all of my life, and have never heard of a "Chinook Wind" ... I've heard of "Pineapple Express." Further, I've asked my local friends and family in the Puget Sound region, and they -- as I -- think of the Chinook salmon when someone says "a Chinook." None thought of the wind (nor were any familiar with the 'pineapple express' wind being referred to as a 'Chinook wind.' -- Chibiabos 02:04, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
Well, it's definitely a modern Canadian media usage though not as common anymore as pineapple express has become; but I know I've heard it on KVOS-TV Bellingham, albeit that has a largely Canadian viewership and carries BC news content. Apparently there's a difference, technically, between a pineapple express and the classic coastal Chinook, but this last round of rains (the real wet stuff a week ago, not the intermittent stuff since) that came definitely out of Hawaii in a big stream, rather than across the Pacific as in the model in the wiki article on pineapple express. I don't know the provenance/origin of the term except that it was a reference to the wind coming from the direction of the country of the Chinooks (southwest, even from Vanc BC, at least in nautical terms if not compass-lines) as likewise its context in the Prairies/Great Plains, where it also named because it comes from the country of the Chinooks; I think the coastal usage is near invariably "a Chinook" as opposed to "Chinook wind" - "a Chinook" refers to the weather system, the volume of rain and where it's coming from; it's not a wind that's being described. Try it - out on some of the guys down on the fishboats as it may yet survive in maritime slang down there, i.e. what "chinook" means when it's weather that's being talked about vs. fish, as it certainly does on the BC Coast, even in the yacht-y set. And yes, when we're talking about fish if we say "Chinook", we mean a salmon too. Skookum1 02:39, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
Skookum1 21:53, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
I live in SW Washington. I have heard of both the fish and the wind, but I hadn't known what the wind was before I read the article. I had noticed that most of the high winds in the area bring warm weather. As for pronunciation, I have never heard Chinook with a hard "Ch." All the Chinooks, whether winds, fish, helicopters or Indian tribes are referred to with a "sh." A rather interesting turn of events, if the Fort Vancouver area used to pronounce it "correctly."
Oh, for sure, it's "tshinuk" in the aboriginal-original, and also quite often how it's pronounced up here (fish or wind or whatever). The creolized Chinook Jargon in Grand Ronde OR uses, for example "Tshinuk Wawa" to mean the Chinook Jargon. As for Fort Vancouver, and OR non-natives in general, it could very well be that the French influence there "hung on" in the new settlers, who picked up the Metis way of using local words, of which shinook is obviously French, given its native and definitely tshi- original form; that in and of itself is interesting if true - that American settlers picked up the French/company way of pronouncing the word, as opposed to the native way. Either that or the media inundation from Alberta/Eastern Canada of the frenchified shi- pronunciation somehow got transmitted south of the line...in BC people seem to use both; the tshi- sound, though, my guess, marks somebody from BC rather than somebody who encountered the word as part of the Canadian national mythology, i.e. as part of the Alberta landscape; few non-BC Canadians realize we have a different meaning for Chinook in the weather sense; they think it's about Alberta to the point where most people believe the myth that it's an aboriginal word for "snow eater" (even in the CBC style guide, it seems) No Peiganor Tsuu Tina that I've met has ever owned up to it, though.... Skookum1 18:31, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
Not a modern reference but see '
http://coastsalishmap.org/north_wind_and_storm_wind.htm this] for another aborignal usage, here clearly for a warm south wind. And as for polling 20 people, it's not like you should ask at hte mall or the starbuck's; go down to the fishing docks or a marina and ask the sailors/fishermen.
Skookum1 (
talk) 21:56, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
here is a recipe you'll be needing. Skookum1 ( talk) 19:34, 14 February 2008 (UTC) No modern-era bits yet, still waiting to hear from certain weathermen. But one of the online sites I contacted, the Weather Doctor Keith Heidorn, got back to me with [ http://docs.lib.noaa.gov/rescue/mwr/016/mwr-016-01-0019.pdf this] from the January 1888 Monthly Weather Review; note in the section above the section on the Chinook Wind, also, the bit on Oregon weather in the left-hand column in the upper page; that's a usage showing a coastal context to the Chinook wind, and in the Chinook wind section the term's origin in the Columbia area is stated. This goes along with the previous mention about being winds on the Lower Columbia, and jibes with the non-Columbia usages from aboriginal stories on the Duwamish and Lillooet River areass. There'll be more, including modern cites; but there's now two non-aboriginal sources/usages and two aboriginal sources/usages attested to. Probably not enough for you, and the modern usage I'm talking about obviously isn't current enough to turn up readily, but it's out there..... Skookum1 ( talk) 19:03, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
This article states the pineapple brings welcome warmth in the winter, but this is not quite the case. The rain on snow quickly wipes out mountain snowpack, and if colder rains don't return, leads to a summer drout (very little rain in Seattle in summer.) In addition, in 1996, a pineapple express dumped huge amounts of rain on week-old snow and the weight on the rain-laden snow caused several roofs to collapse in the storm (including a school near Woodinville), not to mention street flooding due to ice-clogged storm drains.
Pineapple expresses are not usually a good thing as this article implies.
The www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum reference and teh aasociated as-if-factual claim that "Chinook is a Pacific Northwest Indian word meaning 'snow-eater'" I've removed as a-factual, and yet another demonstration that an allegedly reliable source is not necessariliy a good source; and as it's a forum that's coming from it's not WP:RS anyway; and note this disclaimed on the forum's main page:
'Nuff said. Skookum1 ( talk) 16:21, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
Right now, I feel as if the article gives too much reference to the Canadian/U.S. Northwest viewpoint. Would it be possible to incorporate Alaska and/or central European viewpoints into the article? Right now, it seems as if the European chinooks in particular are overlooked. JKBrooks85 ( talk) 12:19, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
I dispute the Anchorage AK/Cook Inlet description as mischaracterizing the wind the Pineapple Express does hit us, living inland, I rather hope it dumps on the coast and the intervening 15 or so miles of mountains dries and warms the air, producing surprisingly warm nights. The INLAND Chinook/Foehn wind is often caused by a southerly dip of the jet stream routing the tropical systems north, impacting the Gulf Coast and Panhandle. It doesn't have to be a Pineapple express (which, if makes it over, dumps a metric ton of snow) but is often caused by one. This leads to a local differentiation between them, where a tropic system causing mild conditions and heavy snow, very rarely rain, is called Pineapple Express. Contrasted to a system that does not carry it's moisture inland, instead causing a dry warming wind tied to the Chinook/Foehn wind process. So, windy, warm, light rain, no rain, major melts, no/mild night time temp drop, Chinook; mild - moderate temperature, lots of moisture (snow/rain) Pineapple Express. When the seaward side of the Chugach is having a blizzard, and the inland side is 50 degrees above normal, because of a tropical system, it is pretty impressive, especially because the distance may only be 10-20 miles between the extremes — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.137.244.239 ( talk) 07:02, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
One critical aspect of chinook formation is overlooked in the explanation given in the article. There is a lot of energy (latent heat) tied up in changing the phase of water from gas to liquid. This 'latent heat' is released as water condenses (liquid water has a lower energy state than gaeous water).
As wet masses of air are forced up the windward side of the mountains, they cool adiabatically and water vapor condenses, releasing the latent heat of evaporation of that water into the air. Thus the air that arrives at the top of the mountain has less water in it, but is warmer than one would expect from adiabatic cooling alone. As the air is forced back down the leeward side, the relative humidity drops (as the air warms), and the air is warmed. Without the extra heat from the water vapor, the air would not be warmer on the leeward side than on the windward side rather it would undergo the same amount of adiabatic warming as it did cooling and would be the same temperature. Bobcat167 ( talk) 15:37, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
I agree with Bobcat, the physical explanation is not well presented. I agree with the concepts described by Bobcat but I don't necessarily agree with the wording. I find the word adiabatic problematic. In referring to the the wet air, they "cool adiabatically", substituting for adiabatic, they cool without added heating or cooling. This sound redundant and unnecessary. When the moist air mass becomes cooled at higher elevations, the latent heat of the moisture is released. Simple and I argue correct. This latent heat results in a warm and dry air mass. I don't mind references to the absence of an energy gain or loss, but I don't feel this meaning is connoted by the word adiabatic. The release of latent heat is not specific to Chinook winds, all precipitation results in a release of the latent heat of vaporization. The difference is the mountains force the moist air to higher elevations and the down flow from the mountains carries this warm air down. Normally, the heat released during precipitation is released high in the atmosphere and is not felt by those on the ground. Petedskier ( talk) 14:39, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
Some good observations here. Ideally, "adiabatic" would describe a dry uniform gas undergoing isentropic compression or expansion. What is necessary for this effect is that there isn't any heat transfer out of or into the system. Heat tranfer within the system (the air mass) is complicated by a phase change (condesation) and the mass transfer with its sensible heat out of the system (precipitation).
The system (air mass) is not surrounded by a perfectly insulated barrier, but the air mass is so large that, in effect, there core of the air mass is where any adiabatic process would occur(??).
The heating of the air mass via isentropic compression under its own weight on the leeward side of the Mountains is probably much easier to desribe.
If I can find a concise reference or two, I'll get back.
Pete318 ( talk) 23:54, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
Also, the article starts by defining an obscure thing (chinook) in terms of an even lesser-known thing (foehn). Ridiculous. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.147.122.14 ( talk) 17:51, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
As someone who lives many hours north of Grande Prairie, I changed where the article had stated the northern boundaries of the chinook is. I live in the High Level region and we get at least one chinook wind annually, and this is several hundred kilometers north of Grande Prairie, the city initially named as the northernmost point of chinook. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.38.159.33 ( talk) 00:36, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
My mother, born 1926 in Vancouver, was taught by her mother and grandmother, plus in school, about the Chinook winds, named by the French fur traders in the 1600's or so. The winds generally have nothing to do with major air systems from far out in the Pacific, but mostly just from the usual coastal breezes common to so many large water bodies, including the great lakes.
The NW Washington city of Bellingham and the city of Vancouver, BC, Canada across the border are on right on the coast, protected by a mass of islands, some rain forest ones. The two cities are in a fertile farming and dairy production mountain valley rising abruptly into the Cascade Range which is highlighted by the Mount Baker mile-high active volcano on the American side. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Baker As you get near the Cascade foothills, you frequently see clouds hovering close to the ground - strange sight.
This valley is the pathway to the ocean of the Fraser River, thus the Fraser River Valley. The warming moisture heavy winds gently and almost constantly, all through the year, travel up the valley, sweeping the horrible non-PC Vancouver smog up to Chilliwack where the smog pools up and becomes dense again as the wind sweeps up the mountain sides. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraser_River
I live near the border, nearly next to the Cascade foothills and mountains beyond. In the second week of March this year, we got quite a few days of drizzle, but the mountains accumulated ten feet of fresh snow - that is how much moisture can be lost during the winter from a wet enough weather system moving in. On the far side of the mountains, after the winds had lost their moisture and been warmed as a result, they, now dry, swooped down the eastern slopes creating the warming Chinooks of the prairie regions of the northern plains.
Now in that narrow section of this stretch of coastal region, the weather is very moist, high humidity, cloudy and rainy/misty nearly year round, but the temperatures are very mild, seldom below freezing, seldom snowing more than twice in a winter, usually above 40 during the winters, seldom over 80 in the summer, rarely more than 3 days over 90. This is a climate of the Northwest "socks and sandals", hoodies, windbreakers and billed caps (to keep the mist off your face) most the year round.
So you could say that the breezes bring a relative winter warmth of different kinds, wet to us, dry to the east of the mountains. In California, San Fransisco has similar weather. All along the California mountain coastline, there is rain as the wet air rises, then harsh desert as the moisture-stripped winds descend. Down there, the winds off the mountains is called the Diablo wind (devil wind) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diablo_wind
On the article page, there is some strange suggestion that the article be globalized. Nonsense. The winds are only called Chinook and Diablo in the Western North American continent. Now, the PHENOMENA is a recognized pattern found anywhere in the world where there are mountains and the prevailing winds dump moisture on the mountains and foster warm dry regions on the far sides. This type of weather pattern is known by many names the entire world over -- see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foehn_wind and click on Local examples http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foehn_wind#Local_examples
So the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foehn_wind provides the "universalizing" of the weather pattern concept. Any more would be in the weather section of Wikipedia covering how various weather systems are named which is possibly fairly constant and definitely scientifically descriptive.
Nice place to live, even if there was too much sun the past two summers and this winter has had way too many days below 40 degrees. 172.190.17.204 ( talk) 09:46, 28 March 2011 (UTC) 09:46, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
The "Chinook wind" seen in BC, WA, OR and CA is a completely different weather phenomenon that that on the eastern slopes of the Rockies, which has an alternate name, Pineapple Express. Because of this, we should make no mention of the Pineapple Express usage except for a hatnote at the top of the page (This article is about a weather phenomenon east of the Rocky Mountains. For the phenomenon on the US and Canadian Pacific coast, see Pineapple express). Who's with me? D O N D E groovily Talk to me 20:21, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
Many people who do not have a technical background are mystified, or at least ambiguous, in their understanding of the heat pump concept. Ironically they accept the concept of refrigeration almost intuitively. Yet saying that a heat pump is a referigerator in reverse does nothing to help the situation.
So I thought, is there an example of the heat pump effect in nature?
Best that I could to date is consider that there is a hidden ("latent" is too ambiguous) air standard cycle (Based on the Brayton/ Reverse Brayton cycle) action in a Chinook wind.
If dry air were to approach a mountain range during the night at atmospheric pressure and 20 degree C, cool by expansion to one half an atmosphere, to a temperature below ground temperature, then the heat content of that air mass should increase. Then if that air mass were to compress back to one atmosphere, over this ficticious mountain range, the temperature should be greater than the 20 degree starting temperature.
This can't be considered for the main article unless some citations can be located - no luck so far in either the Thermodynamic or meteorlogical pages??
Pete318 ( talk) 15:20, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
The "How Chinooks occur" section states that moist and dry air have different adibatic rates. That's not true. The real reason the temperature of air going over a mountain in a foen wind increases in temperature on the leeward side more than it decreases in temperature on the windward side is because condensation releases heat. Moist air that is not moist enough to condense will decrease in temperature from going over the mountain the same amount as completely dry air would. Blackbombchu ( talk) 14:37, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
Is this wind a hot and dry wind or is it tropical? The beginning of this article should be clear about things like that. I think that folk-etymology is less important. I suppose the question is answered, but I think it should be more direct instead of reading like an interesting piece of trivia. Sam Tomato ( talk) 05:10, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
The use of the word adiabatic throughout this entire article is not correct. The definition of an adiabatic process is one in which there is no heat transfer. Therefore, the term 'adiabatic heating' and 'adiabatic cooling' are not correct. I agree that the process is adiabatic and that the temperature does change, but 'temperature increase' is not the same as 'heating up' and a 'temperature decrease' is not the same as 'cooling down.' I would like to substantially edit the article to fix the wording and improve the overall explanation. Before I do that, however, I would like to hear from other editors for any major input (or potential objections). JCMPC ( talk) 01:39, 5 October 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on Chinook wind. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 01:47, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
I've lived in Calgary my entire life and have never heard of any of the folklore items said to be familiar to most Southern Albertans. I've asked around, and no one I know has heard these tales. They are likely popular among a specific family, social group, or smaller community at best. Tklow ( talk) 02:30, 4 January 2018 (UTC)tklow
Fohn wind 41.13.78.213 ( talk) 20:21, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
I don't know if this deserves inclusion, but there is a short story called "The Chinook" by Richard Broderick, pp. 3~11 in Where Past Meets Present: Modern Colorado Short Stories, edited by James B. Hemesath, University Press of Colorado: Niwot, Colorado, 1994; originally published in Night Sale, by Robert Broderick, 1982 ((New Rivers Press). 164.47.179.32 ( talk) 22:03, 27 June 2023 (UTC) 164.47.179.32 ( talk) 22:06, 27 June 2023 (UTC)