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Bob Dylan sang his 1964 song "
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This is NOT just a song-stub. The book by Marquesee is a fairly significant review of Dylan's early work and politics and should be easily traceable. What is gained by falsely particularising this to a song-stub? Linuxlad 10:08, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I don't see this new creation as a gain - sorry. Titles that long take ages to rediscover (espcially since you've got to get the Capitalisation right). But I leave it to others to sort out with some more appropriate redirects. When you've all settled down I'll see if there's anything I can usefully add (I have the book :-))
Linuxlad 10:13, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Image:AnotherSide.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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Why does the lead jump into who covered it? That's not as important as the song itself, and Dylan's original version. I have my doubts if whether or not should be in the lead at all. Perhaps just a blurb at the end of the article. It is totally trivializing how significant this song is by immediately talking about covers. -- Omarcheeseboro ( talk) 16:14, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
I have removed the "refimprove" tag from this article suggesting that it "needs additional citations for verification". This is because I have edited the article extensively and inserted multiple inline references to remedy this problem. Kohoutek1138 19:43, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
Since Allmusic have changed the syntax of their URLs, 1 link(s) used in the article do not work anymore and can't be migrated automatically. Please use the search option on http://www.allmusic.com to find the new location of the linked Allmusic article(s) and fix the link(s) accordingly, prefereably by using the {{ Allmusic}} template. If a new location cannot be found, the link(s) should be removed. This applies to the following external links:
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 22:16, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
I added this paragraph to the Bob Dylan's Version section:
'Dave Van Ronk gives this account of the song's origin: "Bob Dylan heard me fooling around with one of my grandmother's favorites, 'The Chimes of Trinity,' a sentimental ballad about Trinity Church, that went something like Tolling for the outcast, tolling for the gay/Tolling for the [something something], long since passed away/As we whiled away the hours, down on old Broadway/And we listened to the chimes of Trinity. He made me sing it for him a few times until he had the gist of it, then reworked it into 'Chimes of Freedom.' Her version was better." '
Van Ronk's preference for the earlier version is interesting but not of overwhelming significance, just as it's interesting but not of overwhelming significance that Dylan learned (according to this account) the original from Van Ronk: Dylan might just as well have learned the song from someone else. What does deserve greater emphasis in the article, however, is that "Chimes of Freedom" is essentially the same song as Michael J. Fitzpatrick's "Chimes of Trinity" of 1895, as you can easily verify for yourself by googling "Chimes of Trinity" and looking at the printed music or listening to it performed on Youtube. TheScotch ( talk) 09:48, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
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I can see a lot of effort has been placed into making the reception of the article. I'm just having a bit of trouble seeing some of its relevance. Maybe context is missing or I just need a clue-level adjustment. For example, when Ian Bell goes talking about those manuscripts, it's not even clear what the correlation to the song is. Those aren't lyrics to "Chimes" as far as I can tell. Second thing about him is that I'm not seeing much praise when he starts that actual review of the song, using words like "overburdened", "failed to ring", etc. Something within that first line should be fleshed out beyond "originality". Last line for Bell is also unsourced. I may have more to say later. dannymusiceditor oops 15:12, 4 August 2018 (UTC)
Hi all, I though we should have a dedicated section on this talk page to discuss the process of getting the article up to FA standard. I've done a little bit of copy editing to the lede and first section of the article today and plan to do more. Something that immediately jumps out at me is that some of the inline citations are in a less that perfect state, so I will attempt to tidy those up over the coming week. Also, there seems to be some confusion about when the road trip that Dylan composed all of, or part of, "Chimes of Freedom" on occurred. Paul Williams says that it was in late January 1964, before Dylan's appearance on Canadian TV on February 1st, but the article (as per Clinton Heylin's Revolution in the Air) says that Dylan's early February visit to Canada was before the road trip. Any suggestions about how we resolve this? -- Kohoutek1138 ( talk) 12:19, 17 February 2020 (UTC)
The "Lyric" section of this article is absurd, and it's absurd because it fails to take into account that Dylan arrived at his version of the lyric merely by distorting the lyric of Michael J. Fitzpatrick's 1895 song "The Chimes of Trinity". The refrain of the latter is "As we whiled away the time away/Down on old Broadway/And listened to the chimes of Trinity". The refrain of Dylan's version is "And we gazed upon the chimes of freedom flashing." Notice that in the original "we listened", whereas in Dylan's distortion "we gazed". That's because the function of chimes is to produce a sound, not a picture. Chimes don't "flash"; they ring. There isn't any deep meaning here; Dylan just didn't want to say "Trinity" (too old-fashioned, too churchy), and that was the best substitution he could come up with--and that best happens to be trivially nonsensical. I'm not claiming that my analysis or opinion belongs in the article. I am claiming that any attempt to exlain Dylan's version must reference the original and that any source that does not do this cannot be considered a valid source. TheScotch ( talk) 21:43, 24 June 2021 (UTC)
This is a robot response that anyone could have written in his sleep--anyone, that is, who neglected to read or couldn't comprehend the last two sentences of my comment above--, and it completely misses the point. We don't need a source to NOT include something in an article. TheScotch ( talk) 22:44, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Chimes of Freedom (song) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Chimes of Freedom (song) has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the "
Did you know?" column on
July 29, 2009. The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that
Bob Dylan sang his 1964 song "
Chimes of Freedom" at
Bill Clinton's 1993 presidential inauguration? |
This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This is NOT just a song-stub. The book by Marquesee is a fairly significant review of Dylan's early work and politics and should be easily traceable. What is gained by falsely particularising this to a song-stub? Linuxlad 10:08, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I don't see this new creation as a gain - sorry. Titles that long take ages to rediscover (espcially since you've got to get the Capitalisation right). But I leave it to others to sort out with some more appropriate redirects. When you've all settled down I'll see if there's anything I can usefully add (I have the book :-))
Linuxlad 10:13, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Image:AnotherSide.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. BetacommandBot 20:10, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
Why does the lead jump into who covered it? That's not as important as the song itself, and Dylan's original version. I have my doubts if whether or not should be in the lead at all. Perhaps just a blurb at the end of the article. It is totally trivializing how significant this song is by immediately talking about covers. -- Omarcheeseboro ( talk) 16:14, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
I have removed the "refimprove" tag from this article suggesting that it "needs additional citations for verification". This is because I have edited the article extensively and inserted multiple inline references to remedy this problem. Kohoutek1138 19:43, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
Since Allmusic have changed the syntax of their URLs, 1 link(s) used in the article do not work anymore and can't be migrated automatically. Please use the search option on http://www.allmusic.com to find the new location of the linked Allmusic article(s) and fix the link(s) accordingly, prefereably by using the {{ Allmusic}} template. If a new location cannot be found, the link(s) should be removed. This applies to the following external links:
-- CactusBot ( talk) 18:29, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 15:29, 9 January 2016 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 22:16, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
I added this paragraph to the Bob Dylan's Version section:
'Dave Van Ronk gives this account of the song's origin: "Bob Dylan heard me fooling around with one of my grandmother's favorites, 'The Chimes of Trinity,' a sentimental ballad about Trinity Church, that went something like Tolling for the outcast, tolling for the gay/Tolling for the [something something], long since passed away/As we whiled away the hours, down on old Broadway/And we listened to the chimes of Trinity. He made me sing it for him a few times until he had the gist of it, then reworked it into 'Chimes of Freedom.' Her version was better." '
Van Ronk's preference for the earlier version is interesting but not of overwhelming significance, just as it's interesting but not of overwhelming significance that Dylan learned (according to this account) the original from Van Ronk: Dylan might just as well have learned the song from someone else. What does deserve greater emphasis in the article, however, is that "Chimes of Freedom" is essentially the same song as Michael J. Fitzpatrick's "Chimes of Trinity" of 1895, as you can easily verify for yourself by googling "Chimes of Trinity" and looking at the printed music or listening to it performed on Youtube. TheScotch ( talk) 09:48, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
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I can see a lot of effort has been placed into making the reception of the article. I'm just having a bit of trouble seeing some of its relevance. Maybe context is missing or I just need a clue-level adjustment. For example, when Ian Bell goes talking about those manuscripts, it's not even clear what the correlation to the song is. Those aren't lyrics to "Chimes" as far as I can tell. Second thing about him is that I'm not seeing much praise when he starts that actual review of the song, using words like "overburdened", "failed to ring", etc. Something within that first line should be fleshed out beyond "originality". Last line for Bell is also unsourced. I may have more to say later. dannymusiceditor oops 15:12, 4 August 2018 (UTC)
Hi all, I though we should have a dedicated section on this talk page to discuss the process of getting the article up to FA standard. I've done a little bit of copy editing to the lede and first section of the article today and plan to do more. Something that immediately jumps out at me is that some of the inline citations are in a less that perfect state, so I will attempt to tidy those up over the coming week. Also, there seems to be some confusion about when the road trip that Dylan composed all of, or part of, "Chimes of Freedom" on occurred. Paul Williams says that it was in late January 1964, before Dylan's appearance on Canadian TV on February 1st, but the article (as per Clinton Heylin's Revolution in the Air) says that Dylan's early February visit to Canada was before the road trip. Any suggestions about how we resolve this? -- Kohoutek1138 ( talk) 12:19, 17 February 2020 (UTC)
The "Lyric" section of this article is absurd, and it's absurd because it fails to take into account that Dylan arrived at his version of the lyric merely by distorting the lyric of Michael J. Fitzpatrick's 1895 song "The Chimes of Trinity". The refrain of the latter is "As we whiled away the time away/Down on old Broadway/And listened to the chimes of Trinity". The refrain of Dylan's version is "And we gazed upon the chimes of freedom flashing." Notice that in the original "we listened", whereas in Dylan's distortion "we gazed". That's because the function of chimes is to produce a sound, not a picture. Chimes don't "flash"; they ring. There isn't any deep meaning here; Dylan just didn't want to say "Trinity" (too old-fashioned, too churchy), and that was the best substitution he could come up with--and that best happens to be trivially nonsensical. I'm not claiming that my analysis or opinion belongs in the article. I am claiming that any attempt to exlain Dylan's version must reference the original and that any source that does not do this cannot be considered a valid source. TheScotch ( talk) 21:43, 24 June 2021 (UTC)
This is a robot response that anyone could have written in his sleep--anyone, that is, who neglected to read or couldn't comprehend the last two sentences of my comment above--, and it completely misses the point. We don't need a source to NOT include something in an article. TheScotch ( talk) 22:44, 24 August 2021 (UTC)