![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | The route diagram template for this article can be found in Template:Chester to Manchester Line. |
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 14:17, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
Can I just point out that you cannot go from Manchester to Chester on that route map.-- Kitchen Knife ( talk) 11:28, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
![]() |
An image used in this article,
File:BSicon xKRWxl+xl.svg, has been nominated for speedy deletion at
Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Other speedy deletions
Don't panic; deletions can take a little longer at Commons than they do on Wikipedia. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion (although please review Commons guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page.
This notification is provided by a Bot -- CommonsNotificationBot ( talk) 13:12, 8 December 2011 (UTC) |
The 'Parkside' wikilink on the route diagram takes you to a 'Parkside' station on a Derbyshire narrow-gauge heritage line. This is obviously causing confusion as currently no wikipages exist for the northwestern 'Parkside' Paul Gaskell ( talk) 01:49, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
I was offering content, because I know a lot about this line, but fair enough. Gone.
Does this railway actually exist? ... I could go and take a look, but would that be original research? If I point to a map showing this as the northernmost point of the LNW/GW joint network, is that wrong too?
No wonder it just reads like a history-free trainspotter's page. Who is 'We', by the way? 5.81.29.34 ( talk) 10:21, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
Well, I contribute quite a lot to Wikipedia, so perhaps I am actually a member of the community on whose behalf you speak. It's just that I don't log in any more, or blow my own trumpet on a massive self-agrandising user page covered in medals and barnstars. So what should I do? I could quietly edit-in things about the history of this route which I know to be fact, but I tend to avoid pages that have an obvious self-appointed 'guardian', because then every second word gets plastered with 'Citation Required'. Maybe I'll just leave it as a train-spotters guide, because there is much more - and better - information about this route elsewhere on the web. ChrisRed 5.81.29.34 ( talk) 16:23, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: move all as proposed. The consensus from this conversation is to follow the convention for railway lines, in which the word "to" is avoided as it specifies only one direction, and en-dashes are used (without spaces) to connect the place names. Furthermore, there appears to be a consensus to avoid capitalizing the word "line". This consensus matches the original proposal, so we can move them all as proposed. ( non-admin closure) Bradv 01:57, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
– Per discussion at Talk:Settle-Carlisle_Line#Requested_move_12_October_2016, there seems to be broad agreement that connecting symmetric line endpoints by an en dash is preferable to using "to" which is a one-directional concept. And none of these are proper names, so "line" should not be capitalized (most have been fixed already, but not all). These are from Category:Railway lines in North West England; presumably the result will be propagated to other regions in England if accepted here. Dicklyon ( talk) 04:32, 2 November 2016 (UTC) --Relisting. Ebonelm ( talk) 20:57, 27 November 2016 (UTC)
In detail: The "to" in the current names is misleading, implying one-way travel and/or a hierarchical relationship between the cities (this also makes it a WP:NPOV problem). An en dash is the standardised usage for this sort of thing (regardless of topic), implying simply a relationship between distinct entities (like cities) without judging anything about the nature or direction of it. MoS has been stable and clear on this point for years. Use lower-case line because this usage of the word is a common noun, not a proper name. Do it also for consistency with other transportation articles (on other transit lines, on stations, on bus terminals, etc.) And as has been said in innumerable prior RMs and other discussions about transportation-related article titles. Do not mistake capitalisation on signage for a proper name The sign right next to that one probably says "MIND THE GAP", and the next one over may say "First Aid By Platform 10" (not making that up; I just looked at images of actual British railway signage, and that capital-B "By" isn't standard in any style, register, or dialect, it's just sloppy). This is capitalisation for emphasis, and it is the first thing that MOS:CAPS says never to do on Wikipedia. Also, avoid confusing proper names with officially preferred functional descriptions, which is what these are; the Chester–Manchester line is, quite literally the Chester–Manchester line, i.e. the line running between Chester and Manchester. If it were designated the Pink Line or the Princess Diana Line, either of those evocative appellations would be proper names, since they are not descriptions but arbitrarily symbolic (the railway line is neither pink in color nor has anything intrinsic to do with Diana Spencer). It's the same difference as that between Washingborough railway station (literally the railway station in/of/for/to/from/through/at Washingborough – a formal but merely descriptive appellation) versus Grand Central Station (an evocative, symbolic proper name that is not just descriptive/categorising). Another example: the Berkeley I-80 bridge, a description (albeit a semi-official one sometimes thought of as a name, like "Chester–Manchester line") versus Golden Gate Bridge (an imaginative, symbolic, non-descriptive proper name – it is not golden, isn't a "gate bridge", and doesn't have a "golden gate").
It is not an excuse or a "precedent" that we have many other transit-related articles that need capitalisation cleanup, e.g. many of those in and around San Francisco: Fruitvale station (the station in Fruitvale, Oakland) is named correctly but Van Ness Station (the station at Van Ness Ave., SF) is not. It looks like BART articles have been cleaned up and Muni ones have not. — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼ 06:39, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
Please review to see if you can find status of either proper name status or even common use of the various names; I think you'll find that the route names are descriptive, not proper or standardized (and the en dash stands in well for "and", "to", "between" etc. symmetrically per en dash) (Note that the search terms are purposely not quoted, so that we get all variety of expressions mentioning the two endpoints in either order, and line, so we can judge the range of naming and styling variability in sources):
It seem overwhelmingly clear that with few exceptions, line is not capitalized; exceptions are a few "Main Line" cases, which nobody is proposing to change; those are treated as proper names by sources, so are treated as proper names in Wikipedia. The rest are not. Dicklyon ( talk) 02:58, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
@ Dicklyon, Andy M. Wang, SMcCandlish, Absolutelypuremilk, Lamberhurst, Randy Kryn, RGloucester, Rcsprinter123, Amakuru, David Biddulph, G-13114, and Tony1:
Please support or oppose SMcCandlish's modification for spaced endashes, in the parent section. I would expect Opposes from editors who oppose any move at all to be ignored by the closer—this is only about the modification—but I'm pinging them anyway as they may wish to modify their Oppose after reading SMcCandlish's essay.
"The en dash in a range is always unspaced, except when either or both elements of the range include at least one space."We surely don't really need to have a separate !voting section for this; it's simply a rule, and the closing-and-implementing admins will know to follow it. — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼ 07:28, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
If anybody has any news sources stating when pacers were withdrawn please could the future developments section be updated with this information. Maurice Oly ( talk) 14:33, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
I am wondering why the connection in this article is described as one line. The only source I could find where this name is used is a book about the route via Altrincham ( Mid-Cheshire line), an entirely different line. This article instead begins with the line between Chester and Warrington but then continues to describe a section which is part of the L&MR Liverpool–Manchester line. These are effectively two different lines built by two different companies. -- PhiH ( talk) 11:39, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
Can somebody add Template:Attached KML/Chester–Warrington line ? 92.71.60.62 ( talk) 15:25, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | The route diagram template for this article can be found in Template:Chester to Manchester Line. |
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 14:17, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
Can I just point out that you cannot go from Manchester to Chester on that route map.-- Kitchen Knife ( talk) 11:28, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
![]() |
An image used in this article,
File:BSicon xKRWxl+xl.svg, has been nominated for speedy deletion at
Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Other speedy deletions
Don't panic; deletions can take a little longer at Commons than they do on Wikipedia. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion (although please review Commons guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page.
This notification is provided by a Bot -- CommonsNotificationBot ( talk) 13:12, 8 December 2011 (UTC) |
The 'Parkside' wikilink on the route diagram takes you to a 'Parkside' station on a Derbyshire narrow-gauge heritage line. This is obviously causing confusion as currently no wikipages exist for the northwestern 'Parkside' Paul Gaskell ( talk) 01:49, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
I was offering content, because I know a lot about this line, but fair enough. Gone.
Does this railway actually exist? ... I could go and take a look, but would that be original research? If I point to a map showing this as the northernmost point of the LNW/GW joint network, is that wrong too?
No wonder it just reads like a history-free trainspotter's page. Who is 'We', by the way? 5.81.29.34 ( talk) 10:21, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
Well, I contribute quite a lot to Wikipedia, so perhaps I am actually a member of the community on whose behalf you speak. It's just that I don't log in any more, or blow my own trumpet on a massive self-agrandising user page covered in medals and barnstars. So what should I do? I could quietly edit-in things about the history of this route which I know to be fact, but I tend to avoid pages that have an obvious self-appointed 'guardian', because then every second word gets plastered with 'Citation Required'. Maybe I'll just leave it as a train-spotters guide, because there is much more - and better - information about this route elsewhere on the web. ChrisRed 5.81.29.34 ( talk) 16:23, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: move all as proposed. The consensus from this conversation is to follow the convention for railway lines, in which the word "to" is avoided as it specifies only one direction, and en-dashes are used (without spaces) to connect the place names. Furthermore, there appears to be a consensus to avoid capitalizing the word "line". This consensus matches the original proposal, so we can move them all as proposed. ( non-admin closure) Bradv 01:57, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
– Per discussion at Talk:Settle-Carlisle_Line#Requested_move_12_October_2016, there seems to be broad agreement that connecting symmetric line endpoints by an en dash is preferable to using "to" which is a one-directional concept. And none of these are proper names, so "line" should not be capitalized (most have been fixed already, but not all). These are from Category:Railway lines in North West England; presumably the result will be propagated to other regions in England if accepted here. Dicklyon ( talk) 04:32, 2 November 2016 (UTC) --Relisting. Ebonelm ( talk) 20:57, 27 November 2016 (UTC)
In detail: The "to" in the current names is misleading, implying one-way travel and/or a hierarchical relationship between the cities (this also makes it a WP:NPOV problem). An en dash is the standardised usage for this sort of thing (regardless of topic), implying simply a relationship between distinct entities (like cities) without judging anything about the nature or direction of it. MoS has been stable and clear on this point for years. Use lower-case line because this usage of the word is a common noun, not a proper name. Do it also for consistency with other transportation articles (on other transit lines, on stations, on bus terminals, etc.) And as has been said in innumerable prior RMs and other discussions about transportation-related article titles. Do not mistake capitalisation on signage for a proper name The sign right next to that one probably says "MIND THE GAP", and the next one over may say "First Aid By Platform 10" (not making that up; I just looked at images of actual British railway signage, and that capital-B "By" isn't standard in any style, register, or dialect, it's just sloppy). This is capitalisation for emphasis, and it is the first thing that MOS:CAPS says never to do on Wikipedia. Also, avoid confusing proper names with officially preferred functional descriptions, which is what these are; the Chester–Manchester line is, quite literally the Chester–Manchester line, i.e. the line running between Chester and Manchester. If it were designated the Pink Line or the Princess Diana Line, either of those evocative appellations would be proper names, since they are not descriptions but arbitrarily symbolic (the railway line is neither pink in color nor has anything intrinsic to do with Diana Spencer). It's the same difference as that between Washingborough railway station (literally the railway station in/of/for/to/from/through/at Washingborough – a formal but merely descriptive appellation) versus Grand Central Station (an evocative, symbolic proper name that is not just descriptive/categorising). Another example: the Berkeley I-80 bridge, a description (albeit a semi-official one sometimes thought of as a name, like "Chester–Manchester line") versus Golden Gate Bridge (an imaginative, symbolic, non-descriptive proper name – it is not golden, isn't a "gate bridge", and doesn't have a "golden gate").
It is not an excuse or a "precedent" that we have many other transit-related articles that need capitalisation cleanup, e.g. many of those in and around San Francisco: Fruitvale station (the station in Fruitvale, Oakland) is named correctly but Van Ness Station (the station at Van Ness Ave., SF) is not. It looks like BART articles have been cleaned up and Muni ones have not. — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼ 06:39, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
Please review to see if you can find status of either proper name status or even common use of the various names; I think you'll find that the route names are descriptive, not proper or standardized (and the en dash stands in well for "and", "to", "between" etc. symmetrically per en dash) (Note that the search terms are purposely not quoted, so that we get all variety of expressions mentioning the two endpoints in either order, and line, so we can judge the range of naming and styling variability in sources):
It seem overwhelmingly clear that with few exceptions, line is not capitalized; exceptions are a few "Main Line" cases, which nobody is proposing to change; those are treated as proper names by sources, so are treated as proper names in Wikipedia. The rest are not. Dicklyon ( talk) 02:58, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
@ Dicklyon, Andy M. Wang, SMcCandlish, Absolutelypuremilk, Lamberhurst, Randy Kryn, RGloucester, Rcsprinter123, Amakuru, David Biddulph, G-13114, and Tony1:
Please support or oppose SMcCandlish's modification for spaced endashes, in the parent section. I would expect Opposes from editors who oppose any move at all to be ignored by the closer—this is only about the modification—but I'm pinging them anyway as they may wish to modify their Oppose after reading SMcCandlish's essay.
"The en dash in a range is always unspaced, except when either or both elements of the range include at least one space."We surely don't really need to have a separate !voting section for this; it's simply a rule, and the closing-and-implementing admins will know to follow it. — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼ 07:28, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
If anybody has any news sources stating when pacers were withdrawn please could the future developments section be updated with this information. Maurice Oly ( talk) 14:33, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
I am wondering why the connection in this article is described as one line. The only source I could find where this name is used is a book about the route via Altrincham ( Mid-Cheshire line), an entirely different line. This article instead begins with the line between Chester and Warrington but then continues to describe a section which is part of the L&MR Liverpool–Manchester line. These are effectively two different lines built by two different companies. -- PhiH ( talk) 11:39, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
Can somebody add Template:Attached KML/Chester–Warrington line ? 92.71.60.62 ( talk) 15:25, 19 July 2023 (UTC)