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This is a good article, although it is obviously written from 'Romanian perspective'. In Ukraine it is generally believed that the northern Bukovyna (Chernivtsi region) is a part of Ukrainian historical territory, which in the interwar period was occupied by Romania. Another remark: there was no province named "Ruthenia" in the Austria-Hungary, the province was actually called Bukowina.
Andriyc 19:29, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Not sure who and why corrected this article claiming that Chernivtsi is historical Territory of Moldova. It's have been, ever! Before WWII, -if I recall correctly March 28th 1939 -, it used to be part of Romania. Before WWI, it used to belong to Austro-Hungarian Empire. At some point before that, it used to be part of Poland. And at some point before that it belonged to Otoman empire. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.83.234.26 ( talk) 03:55, 12 April 2014 (UTC) Get lost Romanian nationalist. Chernivtsi is UKRAINE! -- 24.0.240.16 ( talk) 02:39, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
Have a look at this two pictures:
Does somebody know if this buildings were constructed by the same architect? Or maybe if the timing of the construction is about the time Cernăuţi was part of Romania (or maybe at the the time it was part of Austria-Hungary?). If you know something about that post it here. -- Danutz
Here is the list of all the theatres in Europe built by architects Fellner & Helmer:
http://www.andreas-praefcke.de/carthalia/list_fellner_helmer.html
The closest architecturally to Chernovtsy theater was the one in a German town of Fürth:
http://www.stadttheater.de/das_haus/geschichte/index.shtml
-Sasha
The first fortress at the city terrains (preserved at the left shore of Prut river until 13 c. when it was destroyed by Tatars) was established by Galician king Yaroslav Osmomysl (1153-1187). After Tatar invasion the city was transfered to highr right side of the river.
These sentences said something about an ancient unnamed fortress at the left shore of Prut river. If you like to speak of "city terrains" on time of a King, there should be some titles of property, naming the city, or the "transfered" city, and the property. There is no mention that the King awarded or cares somehow the "city terrains". -- Vasile 15:37, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
A link was provided but this not good enough.
1) The first military stronghold, a city- fortress at the place of today's Chernivtsi (at the left shore of Prut river) was established by Galician king Yaroslav Osmomysl ( 1153- 1187) to strengthen the south border of Principality of Halych.
2) After the stronghold was destroyed by Tatar- Mongol hordes of Burundai in the first half of 13th century, the city was transfered (in 1259) to higher right side of the Prut river.
3) From 1359 Chernivtsi became a part of the Principality of Moldavia.
You can't say that precisely. There is no mention of Chernivitsi since 1408. -- Vasile 00:23, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
Vasile, I've got you. Any non-Romanian foundation of Chernivci is not acceptable for you. What can we do about it? Nothing. Only to study facts. It is not up to you or me to change history--
Bryndza
02:08, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
After multiple edits, I decided to clean the language up. No real fact-checking. I'll add some additional geography and history when I can.-- tufkaa 19:53, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
Since the article talks about the disappearing Romanian population, I decided to add a few words about the city's once vibrant but now almost non-existant Jewish community. (unsigned)
There is contradictory mention of Popovici, suggesting to Antonescu to raise the number of Jews to be deported, from 20000 to 200 - the contrary must be true! I recently read an article
by the president of the Filderman society, published in Cluj, where he expresses enthusisastical thanks to Popovici for having saved (if I remember well, about) 20000 Jewish lived. One
must mention, the author was clearly up to date with the most recent researchs on the subject... I believe this point must be reviewed! — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
PredaMi (
talk •
contribs)
18:40, 25 January 2014 (UTC)
Chernivtsi was once one of the great cities of Europe. As presently written the article does not cover that history adequately, merely noting a few factoids. Fred Bauder 14:27, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
BS"D
What happened here, it looks like someone copied from the Deutsch or Dutch Wiki. -- Shaul avrom 22:36, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
1. To say "Ukrainian sovereignty did not 'flourish'" sounds odd and is impenetrably vague. In English, "sovereignty" isn't normally said to be "flourishing" or "not flourishing" — in contrast to, for example, commerce flourishing. In context it sounds like a smokescreen for rival national claims on the ethnically mixed city.
2. The article notes that before WWII the city was about one-fifth German. It should be explained that these Czernowitzers were primarily the residue of the former Austrian (Austro-Hungarian) upper classes and officialdom. These German-speakers (during the Nazi period classified as Volksdeutsch) were resettled under terms of the Nazi-Soviet pact like those of the Baltic states — some to the so-called Wartheland in occupied Poland — under the slogan Heim ins Reich, whether they wanted to leave or not.
3. If a famous personalities section is added, it should include Gregor von Rezzori, a novelist who wrote in German. His autobiographical Snows of Yesteryear (original title: Blumen in Schnee) provides a vivid picture of this region. Sca 22:57, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
A Fourth:
It is questionable that the Ukrainians saw the Romanians as unambiguous liberators. Sure, Soviet rule and its horrors would be ended, but clearly Romania did not have the liberation of Ukraine as an objective. Paul from Michigan ( talk) 14:08, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
The table below was brought by user:Olahus. Data sources are not provided. Numbers look questionable. There is already a more general table with historical population data in the article. -- Greggerr ( talk) 00:15, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
Chernivtsi (city) | Chernivtsi (suburbs) | |||
---|---|---|---|---|
Year | Romanians | Ukrainians | Romanians | Ukrainians |
1860 | 9.177 | 4.133 | 20.068 | 6.645 |
1870 | 5.999 citation needed | 5.831 | 28.315 | 35.011 |
1880 | 6.431 | 8.232 | 8.887 citation needed | 23.051 |
1890 | 7.624 | 10.385 | 11.433 | 34.067 |
1900 | 9.400 | 13.030 | 13.252 | 25.476 |
1910 | 13.440 | 15.254 | 18.060 | 22.351 |
I'd like to know what the people of the city do for a living - are there no important industries in Chernivtsi? Railway shops, chemicals plants, etc.? Tourism? Would be interesting! Maelli ( talk) 12:35, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
OK, Biruitorul, Livepuissa, can you two provide an reasonable explanation why you included this article into category named "Romanian communities in Ukraine"? Article states that 79.8% of population of this city are ethnic Ukrainians, so how exactly it could be described as "Romanian community"? Perhaps you do not speak English well, but term "Romanian community" in English could refer either to localities with Romanian ethnic majority either to "ethnic communities of Romanians" in certain localities. In the second case, category "Romanian communities" could be used for some article named "Romanians in Chernivtsi", but Chernivtsi city itself is an ethnic Ukrainian community, not Romanian one, and readers of this article would be misguided by such wrong categorization. As for revert made by Biruitorul with explanation "see the 1930 census", I do not see how you can categorize an geographical article in accordance with an historical data. This is the year 2012 and we have to classify geographical articles in accordance with current political and demographical situation. Following the logic which ignoring current situation and which glorify certain time periods, we could categorize this article under category "Cities in Romania" (if we like 1930 situation) or perhaps under category "Cities in Austria-Hungary" (if we like 1910 situation). But, this is ridiculous. Wikipedia is not an alternate history forum and we are obligated to have accurate categorization and not to misguide readers. And one additional important thing: 1930 census shows that city in that time was ethnically mixed, i.e. populated by multiple ethnicities, so we cannot say that this city was an "ethnic community" of any ethnic group in that year. PANONIAN 20:39, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
I do not want to go and have a look at Cluj. Or should I? Or even the name of Temeshwar, which should make no sense on the Wiki for the same reasons mentioned by PANONIAN - because Temeshburg is the correct german word, but the English having had no relations what so ever to the region, have no reason to adopt an old Hungarian name rather than the Romanian Timisoara - and they do so. Coming to Cernăuţi, it happens to have been a Romanian city it mots of its history, since 1400 to 1800, so there is a good reason to see there. It is correct to use the present Ucrainian name, but mention the romanian one too, since it appears any how in the history. This is more sensible than referring to the large table of names of cities, where Cernăuţi is not. Can we have some polite common sensic people around? PredaMi ( talk) 18:49, 25 January 2014 (UTC)
Please can we call a halt to edits to this for the time being. If anyone objects to the present version, please can they discuss their proposed changes here so we can arrive at a consensus.-- Toddy1 ( talk) 21:01, 16 October 2013 (UTC)
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some of the materials in education and architecture were taken from ukrainian wiki -- Sorrow3 ( talk) 12:17, 24 January 2020 (UTC)
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Chernivtsi's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "encyclopedia":
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 09:58, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 16:10, 23 September 2021 (UTC)
I don’t know if the city has been struck or not. Trying to get a translate tool to check local online news outlets.
Does Wikipedia allow foreign language citations? The two most common languages in Ukraine are Ukrainian followed by Russian.
Chesapeake77 ( talk) 16:17, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
As is customary for a major current event affecting a city-- I added a small section at the very bottom of the article. Should the details expand significantly, a second article will be created-- entitled "Attack on Chernitsvi during the 2022 Russian Invasion" (or something similar) and will be linked from this article, according to Wikipedia policy.
Two notable announcements made by the Mayor of Chernivsti today, about the preparation of city defenses against the Russian invasion, were added and cited.
I checked and Wikipedia DOES allow foreign language citations for it's articles. However the specific language of the source must be noted in the citation, in order to aid translation. Which was done.
A Chernivsti city newspaper (online) was cited, dated today.
This
level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
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|
The route diagram template for this article can be found in Template:Chernivtsi – Berehomet line RDT. |
This is a good article, although it is obviously written from 'Romanian perspective'. In Ukraine it is generally believed that the northern Bukovyna (Chernivtsi region) is a part of Ukrainian historical territory, which in the interwar period was occupied by Romania. Another remark: there was no province named "Ruthenia" in the Austria-Hungary, the province was actually called Bukowina.
Andriyc 19:29, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Not sure who and why corrected this article claiming that Chernivtsi is historical Territory of Moldova. It's have been, ever! Before WWII, -if I recall correctly March 28th 1939 -, it used to be part of Romania. Before WWI, it used to belong to Austro-Hungarian Empire. At some point before that, it used to be part of Poland. And at some point before that it belonged to Otoman empire. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.83.234.26 ( talk) 03:55, 12 April 2014 (UTC) Get lost Romanian nationalist. Chernivtsi is UKRAINE! -- 24.0.240.16 ( talk) 02:39, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
Have a look at this two pictures:
Does somebody know if this buildings were constructed by the same architect? Or maybe if the timing of the construction is about the time Cernăuţi was part of Romania (or maybe at the the time it was part of Austria-Hungary?). If you know something about that post it here. -- Danutz
Here is the list of all the theatres in Europe built by architects Fellner & Helmer:
http://www.andreas-praefcke.de/carthalia/list_fellner_helmer.html
The closest architecturally to Chernovtsy theater was the one in a German town of Fürth:
http://www.stadttheater.de/das_haus/geschichte/index.shtml
-Sasha
The first fortress at the city terrains (preserved at the left shore of Prut river until 13 c. when it was destroyed by Tatars) was established by Galician king Yaroslav Osmomysl (1153-1187). After Tatar invasion the city was transfered to highr right side of the river.
These sentences said something about an ancient unnamed fortress at the left shore of Prut river. If you like to speak of "city terrains" on time of a King, there should be some titles of property, naming the city, or the "transfered" city, and the property. There is no mention that the King awarded or cares somehow the "city terrains". -- Vasile 15:37, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
A link was provided but this not good enough.
1) The first military stronghold, a city- fortress at the place of today's Chernivtsi (at the left shore of Prut river) was established by Galician king Yaroslav Osmomysl ( 1153- 1187) to strengthen the south border of Principality of Halych.
2) After the stronghold was destroyed by Tatar- Mongol hordes of Burundai in the first half of 13th century, the city was transfered (in 1259) to higher right side of the Prut river.
3) From 1359 Chernivtsi became a part of the Principality of Moldavia.
You can't say that precisely. There is no mention of Chernivitsi since 1408. -- Vasile 00:23, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
Vasile, I've got you. Any non-Romanian foundation of Chernivci is not acceptable for you. What can we do about it? Nothing. Only to study facts. It is not up to you or me to change history--
Bryndza
02:08, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
After multiple edits, I decided to clean the language up. No real fact-checking. I'll add some additional geography and history when I can.-- tufkaa 19:53, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
Since the article talks about the disappearing Romanian population, I decided to add a few words about the city's once vibrant but now almost non-existant Jewish community. (unsigned)
There is contradictory mention of Popovici, suggesting to Antonescu to raise the number of Jews to be deported, from 20000 to 200 - the contrary must be true! I recently read an article
by the president of the Filderman society, published in Cluj, where he expresses enthusisastical thanks to Popovici for having saved (if I remember well, about) 20000 Jewish lived. One
must mention, the author was clearly up to date with the most recent researchs on the subject... I believe this point must be reviewed! — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
PredaMi (
talk •
contribs)
18:40, 25 January 2014 (UTC)
Chernivtsi was once one of the great cities of Europe. As presently written the article does not cover that history adequately, merely noting a few factoids. Fred Bauder 14:27, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
BS"D
What happened here, it looks like someone copied from the Deutsch or Dutch Wiki. -- Shaul avrom 22:36, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
1. To say "Ukrainian sovereignty did not 'flourish'" sounds odd and is impenetrably vague. In English, "sovereignty" isn't normally said to be "flourishing" or "not flourishing" — in contrast to, for example, commerce flourishing. In context it sounds like a smokescreen for rival national claims on the ethnically mixed city.
2. The article notes that before WWII the city was about one-fifth German. It should be explained that these Czernowitzers were primarily the residue of the former Austrian (Austro-Hungarian) upper classes and officialdom. These German-speakers (during the Nazi period classified as Volksdeutsch) were resettled under terms of the Nazi-Soviet pact like those of the Baltic states — some to the so-called Wartheland in occupied Poland — under the slogan Heim ins Reich, whether they wanted to leave or not.
3. If a famous personalities section is added, it should include Gregor von Rezzori, a novelist who wrote in German. His autobiographical Snows of Yesteryear (original title: Blumen in Schnee) provides a vivid picture of this region. Sca 22:57, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
A Fourth:
It is questionable that the Ukrainians saw the Romanians as unambiguous liberators. Sure, Soviet rule and its horrors would be ended, but clearly Romania did not have the liberation of Ukraine as an objective. Paul from Michigan ( talk) 14:08, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
The table below was brought by user:Olahus. Data sources are not provided. Numbers look questionable. There is already a more general table with historical population data in the article. -- Greggerr ( talk) 00:15, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
Chernivtsi (city) | Chernivtsi (suburbs) | |||
---|---|---|---|---|
Year | Romanians | Ukrainians | Romanians | Ukrainians |
1860 | 9.177 | 4.133 | 20.068 | 6.645 |
1870 | 5.999 citation needed | 5.831 | 28.315 | 35.011 |
1880 | 6.431 | 8.232 | 8.887 citation needed | 23.051 |
1890 | 7.624 | 10.385 | 11.433 | 34.067 |
1900 | 9.400 | 13.030 | 13.252 | 25.476 |
1910 | 13.440 | 15.254 | 18.060 | 22.351 |
I'd like to know what the people of the city do for a living - are there no important industries in Chernivtsi? Railway shops, chemicals plants, etc.? Tourism? Would be interesting! Maelli ( talk) 12:35, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
OK, Biruitorul, Livepuissa, can you two provide an reasonable explanation why you included this article into category named "Romanian communities in Ukraine"? Article states that 79.8% of population of this city are ethnic Ukrainians, so how exactly it could be described as "Romanian community"? Perhaps you do not speak English well, but term "Romanian community" in English could refer either to localities with Romanian ethnic majority either to "ethnic communities of Romanians" in certain localities. In the second case, category "Romanian communities" could be used for some article named "Romanians in Chernivtsi", but Chernivtsi city itself is an ethnic Ukrainian community, not Romanian one, and readers of this article would be misguided by such wrong categorization. As for revert made by Biruitorul with explanation "see the 1930 census", I do not see how you can categorize an geographical article in accordance with an historical data. This is the year 2012 and we have to classify geographical articles in accordance with current political and demographical situation. Following the logic which ignoring current situation and which glorify certain time periods, we could categorize this article under category "Cities in Romania" (if we like 1930 situation) or perhaps under category "Cities in Austria-Hungary" (if we like 1910 situation). But, this is ridiculous. Wikipedia is not an alternate history forum and we are obligated to have accurate categorization and not to misguide readers. And one additional important thing: 1930 census shows that city in that time was ethnically mixed, i.e. populated by multiple ethnicities, so we cannot say that this city was an "ethnic community" of any ethnic group in that year. PANONIAN 20:39, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
I do not want to go and have a look at Cluj. Or should I? Or even the name of Temeshwar, which should make no sense on the Wiki for the same reasons mentioned by PANONIAN - because Temeshburg is the correct german word, but the English having had no relations what so ever to the region, have no reason to adopt an old Hungarian name rather than the Romanian Timisoara - and they do so. Coming to Cernăuţi, it happens to have been a Romanian city it mots of its history, since 1400 to 1800, so there is a good reason to see there. It is correct to use the present Ucrainian name, but mention the romanian one too, since it appears any how in the history. This is more sensible than referring to the large table of names of cities, where Cernăuţi is not. Can we have some polite common sensic people around? PredaMi ( talk) 18:49, 25 January 2014 (UTC)
Please can we call a halt to edits to this for the time being. If anyone objects to the present version, please can they discuss their proposed changes here so we can arrive at a consensus.-- Toddy1 ( talk) 21:01, 16 October 2013 (UTC)
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some of the materials in education and architecture were taken from ukrainian wiki -- Sorrow3 ( talk) 12:17, 24 January 2020 (UTC)
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Chernivtsi's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "encyclopedia":
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 09:58, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 16:10, 23 September 2021 (UTC)
I don’t know if the city has been struck or not. Trying to get a translate tool to check local online news outlets.
Does Wikipedia allow foreign language citations? The two most common languages in Ukraine are Ukrainian followed by Russian.
Chesapeake77 ( talk) 16:17, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
As is customary for a major current event affecting a city-- I added a small section at the very bottom of the article. Should the details expand significantly, a second article will be created-- entitled "Attack on Chernitsvi during the 2022 Russian Invasion" (or something similar) and will be linked from this article, according to Wikipedia policy.
Two notable announcements made by the Mayor of Chernivsti today, about the preparation of city defenses against the Russian invasion, were added and cited.
I checked and Wikipedia DOES allow foreign language citations for it's articles. However the specific language of the source must be noted in the citation, in order to aid translation. Which was done.
A Chernivsti city newspaper (online) was cited, dated today.