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Its amazing there is zero mention of the American Revolution 1775–83 or other British colonies e.g. Canada, Austraila, Barbados etc. Did Charlotte have any captured thoughts or interactions with any of this history?
The whole section on Charlotte's ancestry sounds like someone arguing she must be white because I say so. It's not NPOV. It was, until I changed the source to say what it actually said then a bunch of racists came in and tried to argue her to be white and then discount the source, when they left it alone when they thought it argued she was white. But that's not the point of wikipedia. It's too hardline on the fact she was white, skipping over the fact that her doctor and her actual official painter, she PREFERRED thought she was part black. That's quite a miss there. Most of the citations pondering her race as white, also are quite after the fact after she died, not contemporary to her or had a personal relationship with her. This is worth fixing and mentioning. I would do it, but every time I fix this page and try to make it more NPOV, some racist comes along and tries to argue she's white and delete the NPOV-ness. Please reconsider. Also, I think it's worth changing her portrait to her preferred painter, not trying to make further arguments about how she was really white and all the sources about her thinking she was black MUST be wrong. The mentioned portrait as the reference point, I noticed was removed. The scrubbing on this page is coming off really racist, honestly. Putting more weight on non--contemporary scholars and putting down PoC scholars, really doesn't look good for wikipedia. Looks kinda like white supremacy. Keep it NPOV, not racist. If people of her time period and her since she kept that company caring for her were of the opinion she was black, then maybe, just maybe she thought she was? Is that such a terrible thing? Let people ponder and draw their own conclusions, not cram down an opinion. Deletion of information to argue a person's race is wrong.
Historians are split on this, BTW. It's not hardlined one way or the other. But people are using selective bias because they hate the idea.
-- KimYunmi ( talk) 00:35, 24 July 2021 (UTC)
I was thinking of adding this, but since it is a Good Article I'm now reluctant, since I'm not confident enough it is appropriate. That is, I wanted to write about how queen Charlotte has become popular in recent years due to the Bridgerton novels and tv series, including the series around her persona Queen Charlotte: A Bridgerton Story. Would this section make sense? Cozyenby ( talk) 16:49, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
The page has illustrations for her arms as queen consort in three stages, but do we know how her arms were displayed prior to marriage. Robin S. Taylor ( talk) 18:30, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
Someone is mad at me for lining up the article with what the sources actually say. Including moving the quotes to the correct location.
First of all, there were added weasel quotes that the cited thesis never used. The quotes were in the wrong location and attributed to the wrong author–somehow they drifted from Springer to Rogers. If the thesis didn't say it, and I couldn't find backing, then I changed it to neutral language.
By moving the Springer quotes to Rogers, it makes Rogers look like he's not Jamaican-American. Which is true. It's said in his own book, and in the thesis, which I also fact checked as I read it by adding the correct dates. "Mid-20th century" no. It's exactly 1929. And why cut the first person to claim it? Springer. Literally the first citation in that section of the thesis. The thesis doesn't say it appeared in the mid-20th century. (The thesis focuses mainly on the identity of Charlotte, the city, in relation to the identity of the Queen Charlotte and how both shifted over time in relation to mainly class and race secondary--it doesn't focus on the race issue as the central thesis. Someone is going to doubt I actually read it and then scrolled to page 27).
Then Rogers was made out to be a "writer" in this article but the thesis went out of its way to say the Rogers was an amateur historian who could not get a college education at the time and that he was discounted by the White community because he was Black. But because of him, the idea caught in the Black community. Downplaying both is disingenuous, so I went back and said what the thesis actually said, paraphrasing it.
Also, the Valdes article may have shown up in Huffpost in 1999, but the Frontline article specifically has been changed at the top to say that it was first published in 1997. They dont't cite it, but I changed the date based on Frontline's claim. Some sources falsely say that Valdes "teamed up" with Frontline, so I ignored that given the update.
There were added sources along the way that were attributing things they never said to them, or saying the article took an overall position of, which were not correct. So I changed it to what the article said or added specific attribution according to the article. If the article said nothing of the sort, I cut it entirely.
You really need to fact check and make sure this stays NPOV. Just because it doesn't line up with your POV, you should properly show what the sources say and not add things it doesn't say, don't downplay credentials just because you don't like the author. Also check the sources when new sources are added. That's the whole point of NPOV.
I try my best with people I disagree with to present their entire worldview. I don't agree with Freytag, but I'll still add things like he was a champion of the Lower and Middle Class, along side with his, "I want to genocide all Polish people."
I fact checked the diagram created for Freytag too... and then the Kishotenketsu diagram which some white person decided to make up out of the blue. So this isn't the first time people claim something a source says as true, but it turns out to be false because they are counting on people not fact checking.
I fact checked this article before with Valdes too, where someone said he claimed that Charlotte was White, which is exactly opposite of what he said. I didn't add the original citation, so, I lined it up, with the article and added quotes,(BTW, long, long before Bridgerton). People tried character assassination of Valdes, which is not NPOV. So was invalid. And again, when people added entire Portuguese books, but failed to add a page number or quotes, I asked for page numbers and quotes to back up the claim, so the books got deleted as counter proof. You can't make up what you think the source "should" say and instead should point out what it really said. And you shouldn't be falsely adding sources to the end of a line just because you want the claim to look better. All of these things are against basic academia, even ignoring Wikipedia rules. Present the spirit of the sources cited and let the reader judge on their own. 'cause if reader fact check as I did, then it looks bad, doesn't it? Are you counting on people not fact checking?
So don't get mad at me for fact checking and making sure the sources and article line up. Not my fault some people like to make up whatever they like and drift quotes to wrong attributions without checking if what's stated is true before pushing "Publish".-- KimYunmi ( talk) 12:49, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Charlotte of Mecklenburg-Strelitz article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2Auto-archiving period: 180 days |
Charlotte of Mecklenburg-Strelitz has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | |||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||
Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the " On this day..." column on November 17, 2018, November 17, 2021, and November 17, 2022. | |||||||||||||
Current status: Good article |
This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the
Top 25 Report 5 times. The weeks in which this happened:
|
There is a request, submitted by DDMS123 ( talk), for an audio version of this article to be created. For further information, see WikiProject Spoken Wikipedia. The rationale behind the request is: "Important". |
Its amazing there is zero mention of the American Revolution 1775–83 or other British colonies e.g. Canada, Austraila, Barbados etc. Did Charlotte have any captured thoughts or interactions with any of this history?
The whole section on Charlotte's ancestry sounds like someone arguing she must be white because I say so. It's not NPOV. It was, until I changed the source to say what it actually said then a bunch of racists came in and tried to argue her to be white and then discount the source, when they left it alone when they thought it argued she was white. But that's not the point of wikipedia. It's too hardline on the fact she was white, skipping over the fact that her doctor and her actual official painter, she PREFERRED thought she was part black. That's quite a miss there. Most of the citations pondering her race as white, also are quite after the fact after she died, not contemporary to her or had a personal relationship with her. This is worth fixing and mentioning. I would do it, but every time I fix this page and try to make it more NPOV, some racist comes along and tries to argue she's white and delete the NPOV-ness. Please reconsider. Also, I think it's worth changing her portrait to her preferred painter, not trying to make further arguments about how she was really white and all the sources about her thinking she was black MUST be wrong. The mentioned portrait as the reference point, I noticed was removed. The scrubbing on this page is coming off really racist, honestly. Putting more weight on non--contemporary scholars and putting down PoC scholars, really doesn't look good for wikipedia. Looks kinda like white supremacy. Keep it NPOV, not racist. If people of her time period and her since she kept that company caring for her were of the opinion she was black, then maybe, just maybe she thought she was? Is that such a terrible thing? Let people ponder and draw their own conclusions, not cram down an opinion. Deletion of information to argue a person's race is wrong.
Historians are split on this, BTW. It's not hardlined one way or the other. But people are using selective bias because they hate the idea.
-- KimYunmi ( talk) 00:35, 24 July 2021 (UTC)
I was thinking of adding this, but since it is a Good Article I'm now reluctant, since I'm not confident enough it is appropriate. That is, I wanted to write about how queen Charlotte has become popular in recent years due to the Bridgerton novels and tv series, including the series around her persona Queen Charlotte: A Bridgerton Story. Would this section make sense? Cozyenby ( talk) 16:49, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
The page has illustrations for her arms as queen consort in three stages, but do we know how her arms were displayed prior to marriage. Robin S. Taylor ( talk) 18:30, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
Someone is mad at me for lining up the article with what the sources actually say. Including moving the quotes to the correct location.
First of all, there were added weasel quotes that the cited thesis never used. The quotes were in the wrong location and attributed to the wrong author–somehow they drifted from Springer to Rogers. If the thesis didn't say it, and I couldn't find backing, then I changed it to neutral language.
By moving the Springer quotes to Rogers, it makes Rogers look like he's not Jamaican-American. Which is true. It's said in his own book, and in the thesis, which I also fact checked as I read it by adding the correct dates. "Mid-20th century" no. It's exactly 1929. And why cut the first person to claim it? Springer. Literally the first citation in that section of the thesis. The thesis doesn't say it appeared in the mid-20th century. (The thesis focuses mainly on the identity of Charlotte, the city, in relation to the identity of the Queen Charlotte and how both shifted over time in relation to mainly class and race secondary--it doesn't focus on the race issue as the central thesis. Someone is going to doubt I actually read it and then scrolled to page 27).
Then Rogers was made out to be a "writer" in this article but the thesis went out of its way to say the Rogers was an amateur historian who could not get a college education at the time and that he was discounted by the White community because he was Black. But because of him, the idea caught in the Black community. Downplaying both is disingenuous, so I went back and said what the thesis actually said, paraphrasing it.
Also, the Valdes article may have shown up in Huffpost in 1999, but the Frontline article specifically has been changed at the top to say that it was first published in 1997. They dont't cite it, but I changed the date based on Frontline's claim. Some sources falsely say that Valdes "teamed up" with Frontline, so I ignored that given the update.
There were added sources along the way that were attributing things they never said to them, or saying the article took an overall position of, which were not correct. So I changed it to what the article said or added specific attribution according to the article. If the article said nothing of the sort, I cut it entirely.
You really need to fact check and make sure this stays NPOV. Just because it doesn't line up with your POV, you should properly show what the sources say and not add things it doesn't say, don't downplay credentials just because you don't like the author. Also check the sources when new sources are added. That's the whole point of NPOV.
I try my best with people I disagree with to present their entire worldview. I don't agree with Freytag, but I'll still add things like he was a champion of the Lower and Middle Class, along side with his, "I want to genocide all Polish people."
I fact checked the diagram created for Freytag too... and then the Kishotenketsu diagram which some white person decided to make up out of the blue. So this isn't the first time people claim something a source says as true, but it turns out to be false because they are counting on people not fact checking.
I fact checked this article before with Valdes too, where someone said he claimed that Charlotte was White, which is exactly opposite of what he said. I didn't add the original citation, so, I lined it up, with the article and added quotes,(BTW, long, long before Bridgerton). People tried character assassination of Valdes, which is not NPOV. So was invalid. And again, when people added entire Portuguese books, but failed to add a page number or quotes, I asked for page numbers and quotes to back up the claim, so the books got deleted as counter proof. You can't make up what you think the source "should" say and instead should point out what it really said. And you shouldn't be falsely adding sources to the end of a line just because you want the claim to look better. All of these things are against basic academia, even ignoring Wikipedia rules. Present the spirit of the sources cited and let the reader judge on their own. 'cause if reader fact check as I did, then it looks bad, doesn't it? Are you counting on people not fact checking?
So don't get mad at me for fact checking and making sure the sources and article line up. Not my fault some people like to make up whatever they like and drift quotes to wrong attributions without checking if what's stated is true before pushing "Publish".-- KimYunmi ( talk) 12:49, 6 June 2023 (UTC)