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Charity shop was the
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January 27,
2005. For details on improvements made to the article, see Past Collaborations and History |
I own a Thrift store and my family has been in the Thrift store business for about half a century now. Though we are a "for profit" store, we work hand in hand with a charity, and the charity makes the bulk of the profit. To say that the merchandise is free is not only ludicrous - it is a lie! All "for profit" stores that work with a charity must have a contract with that charity and buy the merchandise. It is not free. This business has a great deal of overhead, with around fifty employees in a store and five or six trucks picking up those "free" donations, all with drivers paid well over minimum wage to do so, so tell me again how is that "free"??? There is no such thing as a free lunch including, and perhaps especially in the Thrift Store business.
This entire article is full of misinformation and I would not know where to begin to correct it since someone wants to merge all of the different types of stores under one heading. If someone is thinking about opening a small business like a Thrift store, this certainly is not, at the current time, a reliable source of information. It is full of misleading, and false information, and in fact lies. ~L.P.
71.226.112.95 ( talk) 23:56, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
Not all thrift stores are charity shops. I have seen privately-run ones, though most others are for charity. Since not all are charitable, the broader term of thrift store should be used for this article. – radiojon 17:39, 2004 Sep 13 (UTC)
It's only broader if you've heard of it. The term is completely unknown in the UK, Ireland, Australia NZ etc. Plus the article is primarily concerned with charitty shops, perhaps the articles should not have been merged. Mintguy (T) 18:10, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)
For what it's worth, since I'm the one that merged the content, I have to say that I agreed with the request to merge -- the original thrift store article and charity shop article duplicated a great amount of content on the basics of how these organizations operate. At the time, it wasn't obvious which term would be better to use -- someone pointed out on the duplicate article page that "Charity shops" had only a very small lead in terms of Google hits, and both articles were very well written. So, I flipped a coin, and the new article used the term "Thrift store." The charity shop article seemed to go a bit more into the details of these establishments in the UK, while the thrift store article gave better general information and cultural signifigance, hence the reason why the merged article seemed to focus more on the specifics of charity shops. My thinking at the time was that someone with better knowledge of which US thrift stores are notable or not at a national level, or possibily the history of thrift stores in the US, would come along and hopefully add details as appropriate (I'm only familar with a few local ones).
Also note that, in quotes, Thrift Store gets a lot more hits that Charity Shop. The only thing I particularly object to is the term "Thrift store" has been placed in a parenthetical note in the opening sentence, and I'm changing this back. - RedWordSmith 03:07, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)
? WELL WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT PROMISE MADE BACK IN 2004?? I know the history of Thrift Stores in the U.S. as my family is a centerpiece in that history, but I will wait for the RedWordSmith to make good on a promise over four years old. ~L.P.
Playing Devil's Advocate here: I know that many small businesses and town/borough/city councils in the UK and beyond are appalled at the increase of numbers of charity shops. I thought that this transcript from evidence before a parliamentary committee (UK) might add some fuel to the article.
Gareth Hughes 20:33, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I agree that this is true, however this isn't the fault of the charity shops who only exist to make money for their cause. Charity shops in the UK pay full rent (very few landlords would give this for free for more than a short period). The UK Government chose to give rent rebates of 80% to charity shops and many would still be extremely profitable if this 'tax rebate' didn't exist. Charity shops that don't make a profit are closed so in a way the views of the small businesses are moot - they are competing against other profitable businesses, the difference being that these shops covenant 100% of their profits to another cause. You may also claim that charity shops have an unfair advantage as they are reliant on volunteers but nobody forces the volunteers to work in them.
The Charity Shops Association have an interesting counter paper to the Joint Committee of the Draft Charities bill but I can't find it! Maybe someone can post it if they happen to have a copy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.141.232.154 ( talk) 13:36, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
I note that an earlier editor changed the date to 1948. I've changed it back, on the basis both of Oxfam's own PDF (mentioned in the edit summary) and of a photo I took the other day, which can be found here and shows a plaque with the following text:
Loganberry ( Talk) 02:17, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
I'm from the U.S., and I was under the impression that the term "resale shop" was used for for-profit shops. People who run them usually go around to garage sales and even cheaper thrift shops and buy the nicer stuff to sell in their stores. Oh, actually, this is already mentioned in the thrifting article, with the same usage as I've detailed here. Anyone object to my removing the term from the intro? -- Galaxiaad 14:21, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
I am also from the U.S. and your impression is incorrect. "Resale Shop" means JUST THAT - it is being resold, for the seller who has a stake in the profit. "Resale shops" and "Consignment shops" are the same thing. Licensed Poet 09:17, 9 November 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by LP-LicensedPoet ( talk • contribs)
By no means all charity shops have any connection with Christianity. Not in the UK anyway - some have religious affiliations (YMCA, Salvation Army), but they are probably a minority. Check the list here: http://www.charityshops.org.uk/members.html I'm not at all sure that categroy belongs here. Any other views? ProfDEH ( talk) 14:13, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
The Salvation Army started Thrift Stores in the United States. The people who started them were Christians. Many of the people that own thrift stores in America today (the mass of the profitable ones) are, in fact, Christians. Helping the community and the charity is as much a part of their faith and moral fiber as it is their job. And that is in the "for profit" off-shoots of the Salvation Army. There are also many "Judas" types owning thrift stores, that stole company secrets, knowledge, and even more to start up their own store. Those thrift store owners almost without fail, end up going bottom up.~L.P. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.226.112.95 ( talk) 00:05, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
Any evidence for these interesting assertions? ProfDEH ( talk) 20:56, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
Evidence is easily obtained by talking to Bill Ellison, owner of most Savers and Value Village stores all over the United States. His son Tom Ellison was featured by Fortune Magazine and his entire family and their partners are the Christians I was referring to above.
Also, there is an important edit the opening statement about "for profit" stores getting everything "for free" because as an owner of a "for profit store" I can emphatically state that is a FALSE statement and needs to be removed. There truly is "no such thing as a free lunch" and while customers in "for profit" stores believe that the merchandise was free, they have NO IDEA the cost, and that a charity is always paid first, and upfront, and then the store is "for profit" after that, and after the overhead of usually 40 plus employees, five or so trucks, fuel expenses, maintenance, building, payroll taxes, insurance costs, and the list of costs could go on and on. For profit thrift stores pay MORE for their merchandise than most other stores because they have very generous contracts with their charities, for the most part, and if not they do not last. I can speak with authority on the stores that have contracts with the VVA in the Western U.S.. The Vietnam Veterans of America make more money than do the stores owners off of the merchandise in the store. Just because the store is "for profit" does not mean that it gets things for free. The stores that operate that way are the ones that are here today and gone tomorrow. If a store has been around more than five years (and in the case of my Thrift Store, I have owned and operated since 1990, the charity is always who makes the greatest profit. The same is in the case of all stores operated by "Greg and David" company and many others that are offshoots. Licensed Poet 09:34, 8 November 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by LP-LicensedPoet ( talk • contribs)
ProfDEH ( talk) 22:24, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
I don't think many people associate "second-hand shop" with a charity shop. Second-hand shops are more like "junk" or pawn shops in my opinion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.105.65.109 ( talk) 09:08, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
This whole article is mostly awful, a lot of it reads like extracts from a 'which is best, for profit or not for profit' thread - like "um, yeah, and you'd think for-profit stores would smell better, but they don't, they smell worse!" or vice versa et cetera. Scatterkeir ( talk) 09:40, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
unsigned comment added by 70.161.112.19 ( talk) 21:50, 16 November 2008 (UTC) This violates Wikipedia T.O.S. amongst other things, and comment should be deleted. There are no references cited, this is an obviously disgruntled ex-employee, or worker for the competition (which is great in the U.S. amongst Thrift Stores) and is full of lies. It is anonymous because it is unverifiable, misleading, biased, unauthorative, and a the author is liable for false accusations. I find it offensive, misleading, and biased, as is most of this entire article, being very pro-"charity shop" and anti capitalist. One can be a capatalist with good intentions, and make money while helping a charity and community, which is exactly what Thrift Stores like those run by Greg and David Co. do. LicensedPoet ( talk) 00:55, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
I kind of think this article would be better incorporated into a more substantial second-hand shop article - that would enable the differences between charity shops, thrift shops and secondhand shops to be explored more clearly, and also the differences between countries. All the articles linked to from the second-hand shop page are pretty minimal. An outline might be:
Any opinions? ohsimone ( talk) 08:33, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
sounds good. 87.246.103.137 ( talk) 16:39, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
Are there charity shops outside the English-speaking countries? Irrespective of whether the answer is yes or no, that is something that ought to be mentioned. Norvo ( talk) 01:35, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
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While a very informative article, it seems that some of the facts and data are missing reputable citations. The most apparent section in reference to this would be the 'History' section lacking outside sources for further information. Jblaniad ( talk) 00:55, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
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I've heard about the demand for VHS tapes increasing because of people buying them at thrift stores. MightyArms ( talk) 05:35, 19 April 2019 (UTC)
Discussion started by sockpuppet. The Wordsmith Talk to me 04:16, 6 March 2023 (UTC) |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Since the American word for it is much more widely used, it has 10 times more Google search results as compared to "charity shop". Also the American version of the word also includes for profit stores, so include that. -- 194.76.238.254 ( talk) 22:39, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
|
It says in the article that Oxfam has the highest number of shops in the UK. This is incorrect; it is actually the British Heart Foundation, with over 700 stores. I would edit the article myself to correct this, but I don't know how. 2A0A:EF40:653:B601:192:F1AF:8637:2930 ( talk) 19:10, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Charity shop article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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|
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This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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|
Charity shop was the
UK Collaboration of the Fortnight for the fortnight starting on
January 27,
2005. For details on improvements made to the article, see Past Collaborations and History |
I own a Thrift store and my family has been in the Thrift store business for about half a century now. Though we are a "for profit" store, we work hand in hand with a charity, and the charity makes the bulk of the profit. To say that the merchandise is free is not only ludicrous - it is a lie! All "for profit" stores that work with a charity must have a contract with that charity and buy the merchandise. It is not free. This business has a great deal of overhead, with around fifty employees in a store and five or six trucks picking up those "free" donations, all with drivers paid well over minimum wage to do so, so tell me again how is that "free"??? There is no such thing as a free lunch including, and perhaps especially in the Thrift Store business.
This entire article is full of misinformation and I would not know where to begin to correct it since someone wants to merge all of the different types of stores under one heading. If someone is thinking about opening a small business like a Thrift store, this certainly is not, at the current time, a reliable source of information. It is full of misleading, and false information, and in fact lies. ~L.P.
71.226.112.95 ( talk) 23:56, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
Not all thrift stores are charity shops. I have seen privately-run ones, though most others are for charity. Since not all are charitable, the broader term of thrift store should be used for this article. – radiojon 17:39, 2004 Sep 13 (UTC)
It's only broader if you've heard of it. The term is completely unknown in the UK, Ireland, Australia NZ etc. Plus the article is primarily concerned with charitty shops, perhaps the articles should not have been merged. Mintguy (T) 18:10, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)
For what it's worth, since I'm the one that merged the content, I have to say that I agreed with the request to merge -- the original thrift store article and charity shop article duplicated a great amount of content on the basics of how these organizations operate. At the time, it wasn't obvious which term would be better to use -- someone pointed out on the duplicate article page that "Charity shops" had only a very small lead in terms of Google hits, and both articles were very well written. So, I flipped a coin, and the new article used the term "Thrift store." The charity shop article seemed to go a bit more into the details of these establishments in the UK, while the thrift store article gave better general information and cultural signifigance, hence the reason why the merged article seemed to focus more on the specifics of charity shops. My thinking at the time was that someone with better knowledge of which US thrift stores are notable or not at a national level, or possibily the history of thrift stores in the US, would come along and hopefully add details as appropriate (I'm only familar with a few local ones).
Also note that, in quotes, Thrift Store gets a lot more hits that Charity Shop. The only thing I particularly object to is the term "Thrift store" has been placed in a parenthetical note in the opening sentence, and I'm changing this back. - RedWordSmith 03:07, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)
? WELL WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT PROMISE MADE BACK IN 2004?? I know the history of Thrift Stores in the U.S. as my family is a centerpiece in that history, but I will wait for the RedWordSmith to make good on a promise over four years old. ~L.P.
Playing Devil's Advocate here: I know that many small businesses and town/borough/city councils in the UK and beyond are appalled at the increase of numbers of charity shops. I thought that this transcript from evidence before a parliamentary committee (UK) might add some fuel to the article.
Gareth Hughes 20:33, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I agree that this is true, however this isn't the fault of the charity shops who only exist to make money for their cause. Charity shops in the UK pay full rent (very few landlords would give this for free for more than a short period). The UK Government chose to give rent rebates of 80% to charity shops and many would still be extremely profitable if this 'tax rebate' didn't exist. Charity shops that don't make a profit are closed so in a way the views of the small businesses are moot - they are competing against other profitable businesses, the difference being that these shops covenant 100% of their profits to another cause. You may also claim that charity shops have an unfair advantage as they are reliant on volunteers but nobody forces the volunteers to work in them.
The Charity Shops Association have an interesting counter paper to the Joint Committee of the Draft Charities bill but I can't find it! Maybe someone can post it if they happen to have a copy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.141.232.154 ( talk) 13:36, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
I note that an earlier editor changed the date to 1948. I've changed it back, on the basis both of Oxfam's own PDF (mentioned in the edit summary) and of a photo I took the other day, which can be found here and shows a plaque with the following text:
Loganberry ( Talk) 02:17, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
I'm from the U.S., and I was under the impression that the term "resale shop" was used for for-profit shops. People who run them usually go around to garage sales and even cheaper thrift shops and buy the nicer stuff to sell in their stores. Oh, actually, this is already mentioned in the thrifting article, with the same usage as I've detailed here. Anyone object to my removing the term from the intro? -- Galaxiaad 14:21, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
I am also from the U.S. and your impression is incorrect. "Resale Shop" means JUST THAT - it is being resold, for the seller who has a stake in the profit. "Resale shops" and "Consignment shops" are the same thing. Licensed Poet 09:17, 9 November 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by LP-LicensedPoet ( talk • contribs)
By no means all charity shops have any connection with Christianity. Not in the UK anyway - some have religious affiliations (YMCA, Salvation Army), but they are probably a minority. Check the list here: http://www.charityshops.org.uk/members.html I'm not at all sure that categroy belongs here. Any other views? ProfDEH ( talk) 14:13, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
The Salvation Army started Thrift Stores in the United States. The people who started them were Christians. Many of the people that own thrift stores in America today (the mass of the profitable ones) are, in fact, Christians. Helping the community and the charity is as much a part of their faith and moral fiber as it is their job. And that is in the "for profit" off-shoots of the Salvation Army. There are also many "Judas" types owning thrift stores, that stole company secrets, knowledge, and even more to start up their own store. Those thrift store owners almost without fail, end up going bottom up.~L.P. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.226.112.95 ( talk) 00:05, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
Any evidence for these interesting assertions? ProfDEH ( talk) 20:56, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
Evidence is easily obtained by talking to Bill Ellison, owner of most Savers and Value Village stores all over the United States. His son Tom Ellison was featured by Fortune Magazine and his entire family and their partners are the Christians I was referring to above.
Also, there is an important edit the opening statement about "for profit" stores getting everything "for free" because as an owner of a "for profit store" I can emphatically state that is a FALSE statement and needs to be removed. There truly is "no such thing as a free lunch" and while customers in "for profit" stores believe that the merchandise was free, they have NO IDEA the cost, and that a charity is always paid first, and upfront, and then the store is "for profit" after that, and after the overhead of usually 40 plus employees, five or so trucks, fuel expenses, maintenance, building, payroll taxes, insurance costs, and the list of costs could go on and on. For profit thrift stores pay MORE for their merchandise than most other stores because they have very generous contracts with their charities, for the most part, and if not they do not last. I can speak with authority on the stores that have contracts with the VVA in the Western U.S.. The Vietnam Veterans of America make more money than do the stores owners off of the merchandise in the store. Just because the store is "for profit" does not mean that it gets things for free. The stores that operate that way are the ones that are here today and gone tomorrow. If a store has been around more than five years (and in the case of my Thrift Store, I have owned and operated since 1990, the charity is always who makes the greatest profit. The same is in the case of all stores operated by "Greg and David" company and many others that are offshoots. Licensed Poet 09:34, 8 November 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by LP-LicensedPoet ( talk • contribs)
ProfDEH ( talk) 22:24, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
I don't think many people associate "second-hand shop" with a charity shop. Second-hand shops are more like "junk" or pawn shops in my opinion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.105.65.109 ( talk) 09:08, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
This whole article is mostly awful, a lot of it reads like extracts from a 'which is best, for profit or not for profit' thread - like "um, yeah, and you'd think for-profit stores would smell better, but they don't, they smell worse!" or vice versa et cetera. Scatterkeir ( talk) 09:40, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
unsigned comment added by 70.161.112.19 ( talk) 21:50, 16 November 2008 (UTC) This violates Wikipedia T.O.S. amongst other things, and comment should be deleted. There are no references cited, this is an obviously disgruntled ex-employee, or worker for the competition (which is great in the U.S. amongst Thrift Stores) and is full of lies. It is anonymous because it is unverifiable, misleading, biased, unauthorative, and a the author is liable for false accusations. I find it offensive, misleading, and biased, as is most of this entire article, being very pro-"charity shop" and anti capitalist. One can be a capatalist with good intentions, and make money while helping a charity and community, which is exactly what Thrift Stores like those run by Greg and David Co. do. LicensedPoet ( talk) 00:55, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
I kind of think this article would be better incorporated into a more substantial second-hand shop article - that would enable the differences between charity shops, thrift shops and secondhand shops to be explored more clearly, and also the differences between countries. All the articles linked to from the second-hand shop page are pretty minimal. An outline might be:
Any opinions? ohsimone ( talk) 08:33, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
sounds good. 87.246.103.137 ( talk) 16:39, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
Are there charity shops outside the English-speaking countries? Irrespective of whether the answer is yes or no, that is something that ought to be mentioned. Norvo ( talk) 01:35, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
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While a very informative article, it seems that some of the facts and data are missing reputable citations. The most apparent section in reference to this would be the 'History' section lacking outside sources for further information. Jblaniad ( talk) 00:55, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
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I've heard about the demand for VHS tapes increasing because of people buying them at thrift stores. MightyArms ( talk) 05:35, 19 April 2019 (UTC)
Discussion started by sockpuppet. The Wordsmith Talk to me 04:16, 6 March 2023 (UTC) |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Since the American word for it is much more widely used, it has 10 times more Google search results as compared to "charity shop". Also the American version of the word also includes for profit stores, so include that. -- 194.76.238.254 ( talk) 22:39, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
|
It says in the article that Oxfam has the highest number of shops in the UK. This is incorrect; it is actually the British Heart Foundation, with over 700 stores. I would edit the article myself to correct this, but I don't know how. 2A0A:EF40:653:B601:192:F1AF:8637:2930 ( talk) 19:10, 16 January 2024 (UTC)