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This is a brand new article, and I welcome ideas for improvement, links, resources, etc. Thanks! Nightngle 19:38, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
Who has deleted this interview? http://www.sinc.sunysb.edu/clubs/buddhism/dailylife/khong.html Please tell me why. Austerlitz 88.72.2.212 08:14, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
It's to be found following the link Number six. I put it again at link Number seven. I think it to be very important and that's why it should be given a title of its own. Austerlitz 88.72.2.212 08:43, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
Once Sister Chan Khong gave the following dharma teaching:
I guess I cannot insert it until I have not found some source in the internet or within a book. Right?
More ideas for improvement? Nightngle 14:29, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
Thich Nhat Hanh as well as Sister Chan Khong are part of this film One: The Movie (2005). Plot Summary says: "In a divided post 9-11 world, first-time filmmaker Ward Powers asks life's ultimate questions of world renowned spiritual leaders and ordinary people..." I think it is worth while watching. Can we add it to the mainpage, Nightngle?
Here she is [1].
which link to chose best for the mainpage of the article?
I tried to add some information which was repeatedly deleted. Here is an excerpt from my answer:
"This ordination (of Chan Khong) is invalid due to the Buddhist monastic code (Vinaya) which requires a bhikkhuni (nun) ordination to be done by a bhikkhuni community first if such a community exists; in the Dharmaguptaka Vinaya tradition a bhikkhuni community existed in 1988 e.g. in China." The source says what I have stated in the first part of the sentence:
"Together, these two rulings legislate for the two possible situations that could arise for bhikkhus in the matter of bhikkhunī ordination: 1.One possibility covered in the first prescription is that they have to carry out the higher ordination of females on their own, because no bhikkhunī community able to cooperate with them is in existence. 2.The other possibility covered in the second prescription is that they carry out such an ordination in cooperation with an existing bhikkhunī community, who will take care of the task of interrogating the candidate and ordain her first, as a precondition for her subsequent ordination by the bhikkhus."
As no ordination in the bhikkhuni community has been mentioned in Chan Khong's case - also such a community existed, see /info/en/?search=Bhikkhuni for the countries which have and had bhikkhuni - the only logical result is that here ordination by Thich Nhat Hanh is invalid due to the Vinaya.
But I am willing to rephrase it, as you should be willing to get reliable sources, which autobiographies alone are not, if you are responsible for the rest of the entry. I want to avoid a debate of where a conclusion starts and where not. It should in any case be appropiate to raise doubts in entries that read like marketing tools of religious sects, quoting from their own books almost solely.
This is my rephrased addition:
"However, correct ordination requires a nun to be ordained by a bhikkhuni (nun) community first [5]. These communities have existed for centuries in several Asian countries [6]." (The first reference leading to the same journal, the second to the Wiki-entry on "Bhikkhuni") Otaku00 ( talk) 16:48, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
1) I have rephrased. 2) I was never talking about "lineage" at all. 3) I am not extrapolating "for myself", as I have just given the argument in a peer reviewed journal about correct ordination. 4) In my rephrasing this is given as a contradiction to think about, there is no extrapolation. Users should see the contradiction, as the sources given here are from Chan Khong's books herself. 5) You have used the explanation "unsourced material" lately, although the material I used is sourced.
Therefore, and because you used the word "lineage" (and I didn't), I think we should have others look at it. I asked other editors for the bio section to comment, and requested mediation. Otaku00 ( talk) 04:24, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
If you consider this a personal view, how can the sentence about her ordination not be one? It has been "decided by herself", because the source is a biography from her own community. Thus it lacks a neutral viewpoint. Otaku00 ( talk) 19:07, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
I make another suggestion. How about this choice of words: "According to an essay on ordination in the Journal of Buddhist Ethics (link), bhikkhuni ordination has to be done by an existing bhikkhuni order first." This is just an information for the reader to keep close to a more neutral viewpoint. No conclusion, just the fact how an academic defines ordination. It is a primary source for the given topic (ordination). Okay? Otaku00 ( talk) 20:21, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
Due to the fact that this article cites almost solely books by Chan Khong herself, I see the requirement of a neutral viewpoint not fulfilled and have therefore flagged it. Otaku00 ( talk) 17:12, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
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This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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This is a brand new article, and I welcome ideas for improvement, links, resources, etc. Thanks! Nightngle 19:38, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
Who has deleted this interview? http://www.sinc.sunysb.edu/clubs/buddhism/dailylife/khong.html Please tell me why. Austerlitz 88.72.2.212 08:14, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
It's to be found following the link Number six. I put it again at link Number seven. I think it to be very important and that's why it should be given a title of its own. Austerlitz 88.72.2.212 08:43, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
Once Sister Chan Khong gave the following dharma teaching:
I guess I cannot insert it until I have not found some source in the internet or within a book. Right?
More ideas for improvement? Nightngle 14:29, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
Thich Nhat Hanh as well as Sister Chan Khong are part of this film One: The Movie (2005). Plot Summary says: "In a divided post 9-11 world, first-time filmmaker Ward Powers asks life's ultimate questions of world renowned spiritual leaders and ordinary people..." I think it is worth while watching. Can we add it to the mainpage, Nightngle?
Here she is [1].
which link to chose best for the mainpage of the article?
I tried to add some information which was repeatedly deleted. Here is an excerpt from my answer:
"This ordination (of Chan Khong) is invalid due to the Buddhist monastic code (Vinaya) which requires a bhikkhuni (nun) ordination to be done by a bhikkhuni community first if such a community exists; in the Dharmaguptaka Vinaya tradition a bhikkhuni community existed in 1988 e.g. in China." The source says what I have stated in the first part of the sentence:
"Together, these two rulings legislate for the two possible situations that could arise for bhikkhus in the matter of bhikkhunī ordination: 1.One possibility covered in the first prescription is that they have to carry out the higher ordination of females on their own, because no bhikkhunī community able to cooperate with them is in existence. 2.The other possibility covered in the second prescription is that they carry out such an ordination in cooperation with an existing bhikkhunī community, who will take care of the task of interrogating the candidate and ordain her first, as a precondition for her subsequent ordination by the bhikkhus."
As no ordination in the bhikkhuni community has been mentioned in Chan Khong's case - also such a community existed, see /info/en/?search=Bhikkhuni for the countries which have and had bhikkhuni - the only logical result is that here ordination by Thich Nhat Hanh is invalid due to the Vinaya.
But I am willing to rephrase it, as you should be willing to get reliable sources, which autobiographies alone are not, if you are responsible for the rest of the entry. I want to avoid a debate of where a conclusion starts and where not. It should in any case be appropiate to raise doubts in entries that read like marketing tools of religious sects, quoting from their own books almost solely.
This is my rephrased addition:
"However, correct ordination requires a nun to be ordained by a bhikkhuni (nun) community first [5]. These communities have existed for centuries in several Asian countries [6]." (The first reference leading to the same journal, the second to the Wiki-entry on "Bhikkhuni") Otaku00 ( talk) 16:48, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
1) I have rephrased. 2) I was never talking about "lineage" at all. 3) I am not extrapolating "for myself", as I have just given the argument in a peer reviewed journal about correct ordination. 4) In my rephrasing this is given as a contradiction to think about, there is no extrapolation. Users should see the contradiction, as the sources given here are from Chan Khong's books herself. 5) You have used the explanation "unsourced material" lately, although the material I used is sourced.
Therefore, and because you used the word "lineage" (and I didn't), I think we should have others look at it. I asked other editors for the bio section to comment, and requested mediation. Otaku00 ( talk) 04:24, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
If you consider this a personal view, how can the sentence about her ordination not be one? It has been "decided by herself", because the source is a biography from her own community. Thus it lacks a neutral viewpoint. Otaku00 ( talk) 19:07, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
I make another suggestion. How about this choice of words: "According to an essay on ordination in the Journal of Buddhist Ethics (link), bhikkhuni ordination has to be done by an existing bhikkhuni order first." This is just an information for the reader to keep close to a more neutral viewpoint. No conclusion, just the fact how an academic defines ordination. It is a primary source for the given topic (ordination). Okay? Otaku00 ( talk) 20:21, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
Due to the fact that this article cites almost solely books by Chan Khong herself, I see the requirement of a neutral viewpoint not fulfilled and have therefore flagged it. Otaku00 ( talk) 17:12, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Chân Không. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 14:44, 7 August 2017 (UTC)