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It states that centurias were grouped by pairs forming maniples. However, maniples no longer existed since the Marian reforms; and centurias came into existence since Marian reforms. Is there something wrong or I just don't know something? -- Windom 09:39, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
The current article states that the Centurion "held a flag". The standard bearer of the Roman Armies was the rank of aquilifer; I'm removing the part of the sentence indicating the Centurian was the standard bearer. Dean ( talk) 14:51, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
While there's nothing wrong with an article describing the process of an sort of thing passing thru a progression of forms in order to respond to changing needs, the collection together of different sorts of thing united not by function but by anology is a fundamental error and problem. The accompanying article needs at least to have the final sense of a function related merely by analogy and name split off as a Hatnote Dab linking to a stub page, perhaps worthy of expansion.
--
2601:199:C202:287E:5131:C9FB:CE00:7C0B (
talk)
Jerzy•
t, 07:29 & 09:54, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
Consensus on the Primus pilus page is that "first spear" is the accepted translation. There is no reason for it to be different here. The "first file" translation is only citable to forum posts and amateur theories. Unless you can cite grammarians making such arguments, amateur Latin grammar arguments in the notes to edits or in the talk page constitute independent research and are not acceptable on Wikipedia. Adding a "citation needed" tag does not change the fact that the theory cannot be cited. Discussions on Latin grammar are to be had in citable academic circles, not in the Wikipedia comments section. Dantai Amakiir ( talk) 10:28, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
Викидим ( talk) 17:54, 15 January 2024 (UTC)The maniple was arranged in two rows, each of which was properly called an ordo, and somewhat less properly, a centuria. The maniple of triarii was known simply as the pilus; while the words hastatus and princeps were applied as adjectives directly to the word manipulus as often as they were to the soldiers. In every cohort there was, therefore, a pilus, a manipulus princeps, a manipulus hastatus, and these divided into two ordines, a prior and a posterior ordo. The name primus pilus, then, denotes the first maniple of the first cohort, primus hastatus (manipulus), the second, etc. The name secundus pilus refers to the first maniple of the second cohort, and so on, till we reach the decimus hastatus, the third maniple of the tenth cohort. The centurions themselves might be known with their maniple in the genitive case after their title, viz., centurio primi pili, (?) centurio primi principis, etc. But they were most commonly known briefly by the name of their maniple, viz., the centurion of the second maniple of the sixth cohort would be called sixtus princeps. The senior captain (centurio prior) commanded the maniple, so that the phrase primum pilum ducere means exactly what it says. In all this, of course, there is no new doctrine, except that insufficient emphasis has generally been laid upon the fact that the basis of all these divisions and classifications is the maniple and that this word is to be understood with most of the descriptive adjectives
— Max Radin. The Promotion of Centurions in Caesar's Army in: The Classical Journal , Apr., 1915, Vol. 10, No. 7 (Apr., 1915), pp. 300-311, underlining is mine
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Centuria article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
It states that centurias were grouped by pairs forming maniples. However, maniples no longer existed since the Marian reforms; and centurias came into existence since Marian reforms. Is there something wrong or I just don't know something? -- Windom 09:39, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
The current article states that the Centurion "held a flag". The standard bearer of the Roman Armies was the rank of aquilifer; I'm removing the part of the sentence indicating the Centurian was the standard bearer. Dean ( talk) 14:51, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
While there's nothing wrong with an article describing the process of an sort of thing passing thru a progression of forms in order to respond to changing needs, the collection together of different sorts of thing united not by function but by anology is a fundamental error and problem. The accompanying article needs at least to have the final sense of a function related merely by analogy and name split off as a Hatnote Dab linking to a stub page, perhaps worthy of expansion.
--
2601:199:C202:287E:5131:C9FB:CE00:7C0B (
talk)
Jerzy•
t, 07:29 & 09:54, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
Consensus on the Primus pilus page is that "first spear" is the accepted translation. There is no reason for it to be different here. The "first file" translation is only citable to forum posts and amateur theories. Unless you can cite grammarians making such arguments, amateur Latin grammar arguments in the notes to edits or in the talk page constitute independent research and are not acceptable on Wikipedia. Adding a "citation needed" tag does not change the fact that the theory cannot be cited. Discussions on Latin grammar are to be had in citable academic circles, not in the Wikipedia comments section. Dantai Amakiir ( talk) 10:28, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
Викидим ( talk) 17:54, 15 January 2024 (UTC)The maniple was arranged in two rows, each of which was properly called an ordo, and somewhat less properly, a centuria. The maniple of triarii was known simply as the pilus; while the words hastatus and princeps were applied as adjectives directly to the word manipulus as often as they were to the soldiers. In every cohort there was, therefore, a pilus, a manipulus princeps, a manipulus hastatus, and these divided into two ordines, a prior and a posterior ordo. The name primus pilus, then, denotes the first maniple of the first cohort, primus hastatus (manipulus), the second, etc. The name secundus pilus refers to the first maniple of the second cohort, and so on, till we reach the decimus hastatus, the third maniple of the tenth cohort. The centurions themselves might be known with their maniple in the genitive case after their title, viz., centurio primi pili, (?) centurio primi principis, etc. But they were most commonly known briefly by the name of their maniple, viz., the centurion of the second maniple of the sixth cohort would be called sixtus princeps. The senior captain (centurio prior) commanded the maniple, so that the phrase primum pilum ducere means exactly what it says. In all this, of course, there is no new doctrine, except that insufficient emphasis has generally been laid upon the fact that the basis of all these divisions and classifications is the maniple and that this word is to be understood with most of the descriptive adjectives
— Max Radin. The Promotion of Centurions in Caesar's Army in: The Classical Journal , Apr., 1915, Vol. 10, No. 7 (Apr., 1915), pp. 300-311, underlining is mine