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Copts united themselves with Protestants and Old Catholics to form this Church? What about the many doctrinal differences between each of the three doctrines? -- Damián A. Fernández Beanato ( talk) 22:58, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
Response: This refers to a union from 1897. At that time the Coptic Church was not involved in any way. The Church, the subject of this article, was instituted by the Syrain Orthodox Church but without being bound by its doctrines or traditions, to establish an indigenous Western Orthodox Church. How this aspiration might have been affected by the doctrines of the Old Catholic and Protestant Churches (if known) is no longer of any relevance as the Church has continued to pursue a fully Orthodox doctrinal position. The Celtic Orthodox Church is not an Oriental Orthodox Church. When the UK branch of the Church came under the Coptic Patriarchate in 1994 it became the British Orthodox Church, and that Church's further history can be found under /info/en/?search=British_Orthodox_Church. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Father Leonard ( talk • contribs) 06:40, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
@
Orthodxinveritas: you have already tried
to restore
the page
three times. Everytime you get reverted. From what I get from your tone, you try to
WP:POV-push... some opinion I have trouble understanding. You seem to want to state the
Ancient British Church, the
Catholicate of the West and the Celtic Orthodox Church are the same thing, contrarily to what reliable sources state. The sources you use to make your claims are a bit dubious.
You use sources by
Abba Seraphim, who is the head of the British Orthodox Church and whose books are published by the British Orthodox Church; you cannot use those sources as neither the author nor the publisher are - unless proven the contrary -
reliable sources on the topic of the article, and I believe those sources are also quite biased.
An introduction to The Celtic Orthodox Church is published by the author's own publishing house, i.e. he is the self-declared "Proprietor" of Lamorna Publications as can be seen
on the publisher's website. So, this source should be handled with care. Moreover, I do not know if the publisher is a RS on the topic.
Veverve (
talk)
11:08, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
@
Orthodxinveritas: Also,
Wikipedia is not a source. Please stop your POV-pushing and provide reliable sources for your claims.
Veverve (
talk)
10:44, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
Indeed I am not refusing to talk. I count myself as knowledgeable about the Celtic Orthodox Church but am hopelessly out of my depth with Wikipedia, so don't know how to discuss. Is this the right platform? I only seem to find this page when I receive a notification from you/WP. I don't consider myself to be promoting spurious claims. The consecration of Jules Ferrette and the inception of an autocephalous was witnessed by the British Consul and the full text is given in Abba Seraphim's book, Flesh of our Brethren, the original being, I believe, in the British Library. The fact that Abba Seraphim is self published does not alter the fact that he is a highly respected ecclesiastical scholar. Both the Celtic Orthodox Church and the British Orthodox Church hold documented evidence of a consecration succession from Ferrette to Abba Seraphim, after which point the two Churches separated. Also, both Churches hold copious journals of St Tugdual. This is my frustration: we (COC and BOC) know the truth (not Pearson's) but an independent source is difficult to find. Pearson is so near right but misses several key points which have led to the current WP article on the COC being woefully incorrect. If you wish me to, when I have time, I could guide you through Pearson's account pointing out the subtle errors which have got us into this confusion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orthodxinveritas ( talk • contribs) 13:12, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
Thank you, Veverve. I have further clarified the COC 'claim.'#### — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orthodxinveritas ( talk • contribs) 06:45, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Copts united themselves with Protestants and Old Catholics to form this Church? What about the many doctrinal differences between each of the three doctrines? -- Damián A. Fernández Beanato ( talk) 22:58, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
Response: This refers to a union from 1897. At that time the Coptic Church was not involved in any way. The Church, the subject of this article, was instituted by the Syrain Orthodox Church but without being bound by its doctrines or traditions, to establish an indigenous Western Orthodox Church. How this aspiration might have been affected by the doctrines of the Old Catholic and Protestant Churches (if known) is no longer of any relevance as the Church has continued to pursue a fully Orthodox doctrinal position. The Celtic Orthodox Church is not an Oriental Orthodox Church. When the UK branch of the Church came under the Coptic Patriarchate in 1994 it became the British Orthodox Church, and that Church's further history can be found under /info/en/?search=British_Orthodox_Church. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Father Leonard ( talk • contribs) 06:40, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
@
Orthodxinveritas: you have already tried
to restore
the page
three times. Everytime you get reverted. From what I get from your tone, you try to
WP:POV-push... some opinion I have trouble understanding. You seem to want to state the
Ancient British Church, the
Catholicate of the West and the Celtic Orthodox Church are the same thing, contrarily to what reliable sources state. The sources you use to make your claims are a bit dubious.
You use sources by
Abba Seraphim, who is the head of the British Orthodox Church and whose books are published by the British Orthodox Church; you cannot use those sources as neither the author nor the publisher are - unless proven the contrary -
reliable sources on the topic of the article, and I believe those sources are also quite biased.
An introduction to The Celtic Orthodox Church is published by the author's own publishing house, i.e. he is the self-declared "Proprietor" of Lamorna Publications as can be seen
on the publisher's website. So, this source should be handled with care. Moreover, I do not know if the publisher is a RS on the topic.
Veverve (
talk)
11:08, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
@
Orthodxinveritas: Also,
Wikipedia is not a source. Please stop your POV-pushing and provide reliable sources for your claims.
Veverve (
talk)
10:44, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
Indeed I am not refusing to talk. I count myself as knowledgeable about the Celtic Orthodox Church but am hopelessly out of my depth with Wikipedia, so don't know how to discuss. Is this the right platform? I only seem to find this page when I receive a notification from you/WP. I don't consider myself to be promoting spurious claims. The consecration of Jules Ferrette and the inception of an autocephalous was witnessed by the British Consul and the full text is given in Abba Seraphim's book, Flesh of our Brethren, the original being, I believe, in the British Library. The fact that Abba Seraphim is self published does not alter the fact that he is a highly respected ecclesiastical scholar. Both the Celtic Orthodox Church and the British Orthodox Church hold documented evidence of a consecration succession from Ferrette to Abba Seraphim, after which point the two Churches separated. Also, both Churches hold copious journals of St Tugdual. This is my frustration: we (COC and BOC) know the truth (not Pearson's) but an independent source is difficult to find. Pearson is so near right but misses several key points which have led to the current WP article on the COC being woefully incorrect. If you wish me to, when I have time, I could guide you through Pearson's account pointing out the subtle errors which have got us into this confusion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orthodxinveritas ( talk • contribs) 13:12, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
Thank you, Veverve. I have further clarified the COC 'claim.'#### — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orthodxinveritas ( talk • contribs) 06:45, 14 December 2021 (UTC)