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The following has been merged from previously separate sections to keep this discussion in one place.
Sticking a template onto an article without discussing it first is not really on! Non-standard pronunciation - is it just the name, or are there other instances? If just the name, how hard would it have been to put in the IPA pronunciation yourself, or to ask an Irish speaker if you're not one yourself?
Scolaire
14:43, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
I've done it now. It was intended as much as a reminder to myself as to anyone else who had the time. Would it have taken you longer to add IPA than leaving me that friendly message did?-- Dub8lad1 21:27, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
I've flagged Ó Dálaigh's name for IPA cleanup. It had been given as IPA:
['caɾˠwaɫ̪ o: 'dˠa:ɫ̪i] but his first name is more like "karool". Can someone fix this? Thanks.
Ian Cheese (
talk)
23:22, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
The fact is that there is no "official" pronunciation of any Irish name. It varies from one province to another in a way that English names in Britain or America do not. An Irish speaker would often not even take account of how a public figure pronounces his own name, but would just pronounce it his way. So, for instance, I would say "karool" while others would say "carroll"; I would say "o dawly" while others would say "o dawla" or even "o dahla". Any IPA you put up will probably be correct, but don't be too shocked if somebody changes it again down the line. Scolaire ( talk) 07:24, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
In the case of personal names only the person's own pronunciation is normally used in those Wikipedia articles e.g. George Everest, who gave his name to Mount Everest, pronounced his name eev-rist as opposed to ev-rist or ever-ist as the mountain is known nowadays. However I learned from this discussion page that Irish names do not have an official pronunciation which is a similar case to some English place names e.g. Salisbury and Newcastle Upon Tyne. In the articles to those places the official (if there is one) or local pronunciation is used first followed by other common pronunciations. If Ó Dálaigh's pronunciation of his own name is known maybe that should be used in the article. In the video from Irish language TV station TG4, Uachtaráin,5,Cearbhall Ó Dálaigh, President of Ireland, Stair na hÉireann,TG4, I found on You Tube when I tried to learn how pronounce the name the pronunciation ka-rule oh daw-lə is heard about 40 seconds into the video. If this is different to Ó Dálaigh's own pronunciation maybe this can be used second followed by other common pronunciations if it is appropriate to use more than one pronunciation to avoid confusing readers unfamiliar with the dispute. Does anyone have any ideas on this? Tk420 ( talk) 20:57, 29 September 2015 (UTC)
Also to appear to insinuate that the President was responsible for the decision of the Provos to murder Garda Clerkin is frankly despicable. Generalissimo1 11:56, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
The text says he was born in Bray, but the infobox says Dublin. Which is correct? Stifle ( talk) 20:09, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
I think that overall this article is rather poor and lacks sources. But being a foreigner I know very little about Irish politics so there is little that I can do. But I do feel that almost all of the Death and assessment section should be removed. It contains a lot of unsourced claims that makes Cearbhall Ó Dálaigh look like a fool. Throwing in accusations about him being "a radical maverick" and "politically naïve" sounds not NPOV.
I feel tempted to go ahead and do it immediately but others should of course have a chance to express their views about the subject. Does anybody have any suggestions? J-C V ( talk) 02:46, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
More Naïvete and mixing of languages in this section. I have taken it out as unsourced. I have also edited the account of the "thundering disgrace" incident: firstly, a diatribe by journalist Jim Duffy is not a reliable source; secondly, "recent documents" did not indicate it was "rather about the actions of the president" - that was a gloss by the far from impartial Paddy Cooney on television thirty years later - the Minister's words were "in my opinion he is a thundering disgrace"; and finally, there was a good deal that was plain irrelevant. Scolaire ( talk) 12:59, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
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This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Cearbhall Ó Dálaigh article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The following has been merged from previously separate sections to keep this discussion in one place.
Sticking a template onto an article without discussing it first is not really on! Non-standard pronunciation - is it just the name, or are there other instances? If just the name, how hard would it have been to put in the IPA pronunciation yourself, or to ask an Irish speaker if you're not one yourself?
Scolaire
14:43, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
I've done it now. It was intended as much as a reminder to myself as to anyone else who had the time. Would it have taken you longer to add IPA than leaving me that friendly message did?-- Dub8lad1 21:27, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
I've flagged Ó Dálaigh's name for IPA cleanup. It had been given as IPA:
['caɾˠwaɫ̪ o: 'dˠa:ɫ̪i] but his first name is more like "karool". Can someone fix this? Thanks.
Ian Cheese (
talk)
23:22, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
The fact is that there is no "official" pronunciation of any Irish name. It varies from one province to another in a way that English names in Britain or America do not. An Irish speaker would often not even take account of how a public figure pronounces his own name, but would just pronounce it his way. So, for instance, I would say "karool" while others would say "carroll"; I would say "o dawly" while others would say "o dawla" or even "o dahla". Any IPA you put up will probably be correct, but don't be too shocked if somebody changes it again down the line. Scolaire ( talk) 07:24, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
In the case of personal names only the person's own pronunciation is normally used in those Wikipedia articles e.g. George Everest, who gave his name to Mount Everest, pronounced his name eev-rist as opposed to ev-rist or ever-ist as the mountain is known nowadays. However I learned from this discussion page that Irish names do not have an official pronunciation which is a similar case to some English place names e.g. Salisbury and Newcastle Upon Tyne. In the articles to those places the official (if there is one) or local pronunciation is used first followed by other common pronunciations. If Ó Dálaigh's pronunciation of his own name is known maybe that should be used in the article. In the video from Irish language TV station TG4, Uachtaráin,5,Cearbhall Ó Dálaigh, President of Ireland, Stair na hÉireann,TG4, I found on You Tube when I tried to learn how pronounce the name the pronunciation ka-rule oh daw-lə is heard about 40 seconds into the video. If this is different to Ó Dálaigh's own pronunciation maybe this can be used second followed by other common pronunciations if it is appropriate to use more than one pronunciation to avoid confusing readers unfamiliar with the dispute. Does anyone have any ideas on this? Tk420 ( talk) 20:57, 29 September 2015 (UTC)
Also to appear to insinuate that the President was responsible for the decision of the Provos to murder Garda Clerkin is frankly despicable. Generalissimo1 11:56, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
The text says he was born in Bray, but the infobox says Dublin. Which is correct? Stifle ( talk) 20:09, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
I think that overall this article is rather poor and lacks sources. But being a foreigner I know very little about Irish politics so there is little that I can do. But I do feel that almost all of the Death and assessment section should be removed. It contains a lot of unsourced claims that makes Cearbhall Ó Dálaigh look like a fool. Throwing in accusations about him being "a radical maverick" and "politically naïve" sounds not NPOV.
I feel tempted to go ahead and do it immediately but others should of course have a chance to express their views about the subject. Does anybody have any suggestions? J-C V ( talk) 02:46, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
More Naïvete and mixing of languages in this section. I have taken it out as unsourced. I have also edited the account of the "thundering disgrace" incident: firstly, a diatribe by journalist Jim Duffy is not a reliable source; secondly, "recent documents" did not indicate it was "rather about the actions of the president" - that was a gloss by the far from impartial Paddy Cooney on television thirty years later - the Minister's words were "in my opinion he is a thundering disgrace"; and finally, there was a good deal that was plain irrelevant. Scolaire ( talk) 12:59, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on Cearbhall Ó Dálaigh. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 15:29, 4 May 2017 (UTC)