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Whoever suggested that cavers eat vegetable soup is dead wrong. I have never seen cavers eat anything other than New England Clam Chowder.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.2.38.107 ( talk) 14:31, 14 June 2005(UTC)
Clam Chowder?!? I have only seen cavers eat mars bars in cave.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.168.0.205 ( talk) 16:23, 27 June 2006(UTC)
False. At least in Europe (or in some parts of Europe including at least Italy, France and Ucraine). Ukraine Krubera teams are used to cook soups with fresh vegetables: they bring entire vegetables bag inside Krubera for long trips (5+ days). You can easily check on various documentaries, also on Youtube. Bag preparation is often well described. On relatively short trips (2+days) is quite common to use dried soups: take a simple at some exploration reports Ankylosaurus08 ( talk) 17:25, 31 August 2016 (UTC)
Isn't "spelunking" a american English word? - User:Olivier
It is, but I thinkthat is now fairly clear.
Cavers in America *NEVER* call themselves "spelunker". A spelunker is a flashlight wielding cave vandal that gets in an accident and has to be rescued by cavers. A spelunker is an idiot. If you call an American Caver a spelunker it's an insult and flaunts your ignorance. Maybe this should be clarified in the article. Senor Cuete ( talk) 19:18, 11 May 2008 (UTC)Senor Cuete
Very "American" oriented, what about internationally? And links to well known caves worldwide? FT2 17:40, Oct 30, 2004 (UTC)
Yes, I've just made a few changes to reduce the US bias, but there is clearly room for a lot more info on European (and other) caving nations, cave conditions, techniques and nomenclature. (Wookey, 2005-03-04)
I have added a more european approach in the History section. (Vincent, 2008-10-20) —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
128.32.117.17 (
talk) 01:04, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
Looking at the page in 2016, it's very American again. Probably lots of Americans editing it. Put in a few more international and British references. Is the "Wookey" upthread known otherwise as the "Mendip Beer Monster"? Haven't seen you for years since the Hill Inn. Aidan Karley ( talk) 13:10, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
Probably opening a can of worms, but I added some notable cave explorers. ? Perhaps it would be better to only include those who are dead --?-- though that's a little morbid. (19 May 2005)
Perhaps we could include the 'Cave Wars' of Kentucky in the 1920's? Or at least I think it was the 1920's...where people owned the stretch of caves in the Flint Ridge-Mammoth area, and violently competed for tourists...this was before they discovered that these caves were all one giiiinormous system. A famous caver called Floyd Collins was around this time, and he died in a tiny dangerous cave called Sand Cave.
Or perhaps we can improve the article Sarawak Chamber and put a reference here; being the largest cave chamber in the world, I think it's a little neglected. Lady BlahDeBlah 20:33, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
I deleted the list of notable cave exporers from the Caving page. To replace it I created a category
Category:Cavers and added all cavers in this list who had an article to the category. For any other notable caver who deserves mention on wikipedia, create a stub and add it to Category:Cavers, as suggested above. For reference I archived the list from the Caving page
here. —
Kymacpherson 17:29, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
There are some sections in the article that still need wikification (mostly more links). Also see WP:NOT — such a "guide" style as used in the last sections is unfortunately not encyclopedic. If anyone has time, they could take a look and rub the article a bit... — Pt (T) 21:10, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
I suspect a Figure-eight loop is the same as a Figure-of-eight loop? (Same for Figure-nine loop and Figure-of-nine loop.) Someone who knows for sure please correct this (or me). TowerDragon 17:36, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
I found that both Figure-of-eight loop and Figure-of-nine loop link back to Caving, so I did change the links. TowerDragon 18:11, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
The US section seems to be inordinately large, compared to the others. Could not the regional associations be deleted, or included in the NSS entry? I don't see other countries including their regional associations. Ian mckenzie 03:22, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
Elimination of links that go to the same site may be beneficial. Example: National Speleological Society (USA) Caving Forum http://forums.caves.org/, Cave Chat http://www.cavechat.org/
For the second time I have removed this listing from "Caving organizations:United States" :
Does the move The Cavern have anything to do with caving? I think not? Should it be removed form this page? Sonofmendip 21:37, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
I've changed the photos at the start of caving because I didn't think they really illustrated anything about the process of caving. The three I've added show the equipment used and the gritty side of it, lest anyone think that it is a glamorous sport...
I don't think the photo from Stevens Gap illustrates much about caving per se, but it's a nice shot so I didn't mess with it.
-- Dave Bunnell 18:44, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
There is nothing competitive about spelunking/caving/whatever you want to call it, so I don't see how one could classify it as a sport. It is no more a sport than hiking through the woods or taking a walk in the park.
Well there are competitions for caving skills at many caving conventions too, but I hardly think that contributes to it being a sport or not. There's also considerable competition between cavers in some (crowded) countries. BTW, most people do consider hiking and backpacking as sporting endeavours, despite the lack of 'competition'. Ian mckenzie 18:34, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
Good. Let it stay divorced from sports. The last thing caves need are troupes of extreme sports fanatics traipsing around like the imbeciles they are. Cupbearer 08:17, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
In my experience gloves are needed not because of temperature, but to protect the hands; a cave formed by solution can have rocks with knife-sharp edges. They are also useful for inproving grip on rope. — Kymacpherson 01:46, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
A few recent modifications to this article were made from an IP address. These changes included some decidedly British spellings. I don't have time to research the Wikipedia policies on this as I am currently packing for a caving trip. But, my feelings are that this is not an article about British caving and should be more neutral. Am I wrong in my feelings? I attempted to make the point on one of the words but it was changed back with the argument that that was the original spelling from the article. The original argument doesn't hold much weight with me as there is very little of the original text that has not been modified in some way and for good reason. Should these British spellings appear here; specifically karabiner, or carabiner and faeces or feces? —Preceding unsigned comment added by WTucker ( talk • contribs) 17:55, 25 May 2007
Dave, that picture of Marion O. is TERRIBLE. The way you've tipped your camera so that the trees are leaning to the left is disorienting. You should either re-crop it so the horizon is horizontal or use something else. Senor Cuete ( talk) 01:16, 29 March 2008 (UTC)Senor Cuete
Should we really be showing a vertical caver not wearing gloves in the Safety Section? Does that provide a bad example? Wayne Harrison ( talk) 02:18, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
I have removed the Extreme Sport category, as most cavers do not consider their sport Extreme. It is only some noncavers who think it might be. Ian mckenzie ( talk) 15:30, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
Shall do. Ian mckenzie ( talk) 16:02, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
At the moment Doline redirects to sinkhole - which is not satisfactory. Does someone know enough about this to start a proper Doline article or is it OK if I botch it up? -- 5telios ( talk) 13:51, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
G4 Underground did a story on this, does this need to be quoted sited, or added to the article in any way? -- Tryx3 ( talk) 15:22, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
No object is aware of the title or credentials of the person touching it. Therefore, I removed the unsourced statement that only an archaeologist can touch artifacts in a cave without destroying them.-- Bodybagger ( talk) 17:12, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
Read title. —Preceding unsigned comment added by WindowsSeven ( talk • contribs) 10:36, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
Seeing as the article now has a cleanup tag... Just wondering is there a good reason for the longer overview to be separated from the short lead section? Reading through it it seems to be quite a comprehensive introduction to the subject... I propose subsuming the "Overview" text into the lead. Fattonyni ( talk) 01:25, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
"Using teams of several, preferably at least of four cavers." -- This practice is far from universal, and is not necessarily safer, depending on the nature of the trip. Especially when an expedition is exploring deep vertical caves, smaller teams can be better. E.g. OUCC expeditions to the Picos typically use teams of two, sometimes three cavers (almost never more than four). With a team of 4+, you tend to go slower. By 5 o'clock in the morning, you're significantly less safe than you were at midnight, because you haven't slept and you're knackered from climbing 600m of rope. Shorter trips are safer.
Obviously this affects the rescue scenarios. With a team of four, you can send two cavers out together while one stays with the casualty; with three, the caver going out is on his own; with two, you must decide whether to stay with the casualty or raise the alarm earlier.
Nevertheless, small team sizes are common practice in deep expedition caving, at least in Europe: the benefits seem to outweigh the risks. What makes sense in the context of a casual weekend bimble doesn't always transfer well to an expedition setting. Mike Hopley ( talk) 23:06, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
Does the word "trip" need some special disambiguation in relation to its use in caving. (Particularly "through trip", "exchange trip", etc.) Martinevans123 ( talk) 22:53, 11 August 2013 (UTC)
Griff just referred to this, i can see why, sort of the same thing, but amongst the rocks rather than in a cave system .... does it need a mention ? Dave Rave ( talk) 20:55, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
In case the article would benefit from a discussion of death while caveing/spelunking, and the closure of a cave by sealing the entrance with cement: Nutty Putty Cave.
John Edward Jones earned a Darwin Award for the Nutty Putty Cave accident.
Jeffrey Walton ( talk) 20:06, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
Are we sure that we want to include Spelunking in this article. It sounds dirty and dopey, maybe if we remove any mentions of it and just push on as cave exploring or something more PC more people might be into exploring caves. Spelunking sounds like something I would threaten to do to your sister if we were having an argument. e.g. I Spelunked your sister last night
Jeffrey Walton (
talk) 04:20, 26 Nov 2021 (UTC) — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
104.174.4.161 (
talk)
"The base term caving comes from the Latin cavea or caverna, meaning simply, a cave."
Does it really? Is it not simply taken directly from the English word "cave"? Proteus (Talk) 13:15, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Whoever suggested that cavers eat vegetable soup is dead wrong. I have never seen cavers eat anything other than New England Clam Chowder.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.2.38.107 ( talk) 14:31, 14 June 2005(UTC)
Clam Chowder?!? I have only seen cavers eat mars bars in cave.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.168.0.205 ( talk) 16:23, 27 June 2006(UTC)
False. At least in Europe (or in some parts of Europe including at least Italy, France and Ucraine). Ukraine Krubera teams are used to cook soups with fresh vegetables: they bring entire vegetables bag inside Krubera for long trips (5+ days). You can easily check on various documentaries, also on Youtube. Bag preparation is often well described. On relatively short trips (2+days) is quite common to use dried soups: take a simple at some exploration reports Ankylosaurus08 ( talk) 17:25, 31 August 2016 (UTC)
Isn't "spelunking" a american English word? - User:Olivier
It is, but I thinkthat is now fairly clear.
Cavers in America *NEVER* call themselves "spelunker". A spelunker is a flashlight wielding cave vandal that gets in an accident and has to be rescued by cavers. A spelunker is an idiot. If you call an American Caver a spelunker it's an insult and flaunts your ignorance. Maybe this should be clarified in the article. Senor Cuete ( talk) 19:18, 11 May 2008 (UTC)Senor Cuete
Very "American" oriented, what about internationally? And links to well known caves worldwide? FT2 17:40, Oct 30, 2004 (UTC)
Yes, I've just made a few changes to reduce the US bias, but there is clearly room for a lot more info on European (and other) caving nations, cave conditions, techniques and nomenclature. (Wookey, 2005-03-04)
I have added a more european approach in the History section. (Vincent, 2008-10-20) —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
128.32.117.17 (
talk) 01:04, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
Looking at the page in 2016, it's very American again. Probably lots of Americans editing it. Put in a few more international and British references. Is the "Wookey" upthread known otherwise as the "Mendip Beer Monster"? Haven't seen you for years since the Hill Inn. Aidan Karley ( talk) 13:10, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
Probably opening a can of worms, but I added some notable cave explorers. ? Perhaps it would be better to only include those who are dead --?-- though that's a little morbid. (19 May 2005)
Perhaps we could include the 'Cave Wars' of Kentucky in the 1920's? Or at least I think it was the 1920's...where people owned the stretch of caves in the Flint Ridge-Mammoth area, and violently competed for tourists...this was before they discovered that these caves were all one giiiinormous system. A famous caver called Floyd Collins was around this time, and he died in a tiny dangerous cave called Sand Cave.
Or perhaps we can improve the article Sarawak Chamber and put a reference here; being the largest cave chamber in the world, I think it's a little neglected. Lady BlahDeBlah 20:33, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
I deleted the list of notable cave exporers from the Caving page. To replace it I created a category
Category:Cavers and added all cavers in this list who had an article to the category. For any other notable caver who deserves mention on wikipedia, create a stub and add it to Category:Cavers, as suggested above. For reference I archived the list from the Caving page
here. —
Kymacpherson 17:29, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
There are some sections in the article that still need wikification (mostly more links). Also see WP:NOT — such a "guide" style as used in the last sections is unfortunately not encyclopedic. If anyone has time, they could take a look and rub the article a bit... — Pt (T) 21:10, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
I suspect a Figure-eight loop is the same as a Figure-of-eight loop? (Same for Figure-nine loop and Figure-of-nine loop.) Someone who knows for sure please correct this (or me). TowerDragon 17:36, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
I found that both Figure-of-eight loop and Figure-of-nine loop link back to Caving, so I did change the links. TowerDragon 18:11, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
The US section seems to be inordinately large, compared to the others. Could not the regional associations be deleted, or included in the NSS entry? I don't see other countries including their regional associations. Ian mckenzie 03:22, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
Elimination of links that go to the same site may be beneficial. Example: National Speleological Society (USA) Caving Forum http://forums.caves.org/, Cave Chat http://www.cavechat.org/
For the second time I have removed this listing from "Caving organizations:United States" :
Does the move The Cavern have anything to do with caving? I think not? Should it be removed form this page? Sonofmendip 21:37, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
I've changed the photos at the start of caving because I didn't think they really illustrated anything about the process of caving. The three I've added show the equipment used and the gritty side of it, lest anyone think that it is a glamorous sport...
I don't think the photo from Stevens Gap illustrates much about caving per se, but it's a nice shot so I didn't mess with it.
-- Dave Bunnell 18:44, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
There is nothing competitive about spelunking/caving/whatever you want to call it, so I don't see how one could classify it as a sport. It is no more a sport than hiking through the woods or taking a walk in the park.
Well there are competitions for caving skills at many caving conventions too, but I hardly think that contributes to it being a sport or not. There's also considerable competition between cavers in some (crowded) countries. BTW, most people do consider hiking and backpacking as sporting endeavours, despite the lack of 'competition'. Ian mckenzie 18:34, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
Good. Let it stay divorced from sports. The last thing caves need are troupes of extreme sports fanatics traipsing around like the imbeciles they are. Cupbearer 08:17, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
In my experience gloves are needed not because of temperature, but to protect the hands; a cave formed by solution can have rocks with knife-sharp edges. They are also useful for inproving grip on rope. — Kymacpherson 01:46, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
A few recent modifications to this article were made from an IP address. These changes included some decidedly British spellings. I don't have time to research the Wikipedia policies on this as I am currently packing for a caving trip. But, my feelings are that this is not an article about British caving and should be more neutral. Am I wrong in my feelings? I attempted to make the point on one of the words but it was changed back with the argument that that was the original spelling from the article. The original argument doesn't hold much weight with me as there is very little of the original text that has not been modified in some way and for good reason. Should these British spellings appear here; specifically karabiner, or carabiner and faeces or feces? —Preceding unsigned comment added by WTucker ( talk • contribs) 17:55, 25 May 2007
Dave, that picture of Marion O. is TERRIBLE. The way you've tipped your camera so that the trees are leaning to the left is disorienting. You should either re-crop it so the horizon is horizontal or use something else. Senor Cuete ( talk) 01:16, 29 March 2008 (UTC)Senor Cuete
Should we really be showing a vertical caver not wearing gloves in the Safety Section? Does that provide a bad example? Wayne Harrison ( talk) 02:18, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
I have removed the Extreme Sport category, as most cavers do not consider their sport Extreme. It is only some noncavers who think it might be. Ian mckenzie ( talk) 15:30, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
Shall do. Ian mckenzie ( talk) 16:02, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
At the moment Doline redirects to sinkhole - which is not satisfactory. Does someone know enough about this to start a proper Doline article or is it OK if I botch it up? -- 5telios ( talk) 13:51, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
G4 Underground did a story on this, does this need to be quoted sited, or added to the article in any way? -- Tryx3 ( talk) 15:22, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
No object is aware of the title or credentials of the person touching it. Therefore, I removed the unsourced statement that only an archaeologist can touch artifacts in a cave without destroying them.-- Bodybagger ( talk) 17:12, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
Read title. —Preceding unsigned comment added by WindowsSeven ( talk • contribs) 10:36, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
Seeing as the article now has a cleanup tag... Just wondering is there a good reason for the longer overview to be separated from the short lead section? Reading through it it seems to be quite a comprehensive introduction to the subject... I propose subsuming the "Overview" text into the lead. Fattonyni ( talk) 01:25, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
"Using teams of several, preferably at least of four cavers." -- This practice is far from universal, and is not necessarily safer, depending on the nature of the trip. Especially when an expedition is exploring deep vertical caves, smaller teams can be better. E.g. OUCC expeditions to the Picos typically use teams of two, sometimes three cavers (almost never more than four). With a team of 4+, you tend to go slower. By 5 o'clock in the morning, you're significantly less safe than you were at midnight, because you haven't slept and you're knackered from climbing 600m of rope. Shorter trips are safer.
Obviously this affects the rescue scenarios. With a team of four, you can send two cavers out together while one stays with the casualty; with three, the caver going out is on his own; with two, you must decide whether to stay with the casualty or raise the alarm earlier.
Nevertheless, small team sizes are common practice in deep expedition caving, at least in Europe: the benefits seem to outweigh the risks. What makes sense in the context of a casual weekend bimble doesn't always transfer well to an expedition setting. Mike Hopley ( talk) 23:06, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
Does the word "trip" need some special disambiguation in relation to its use in caving. (Particularly "through trip", "exchange trip", etc.) Martinevans123 ( talk) 22:53, 11 August 2013 (UTC)
Griff just referred to this, i can see why, sort of the same thing, but amongst the rocks rather than in a cave system .... does it need a mention ? Dave Rave ( talk) 20:55, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
In case the article would benefit from a discussion of death while caveing/spelunking, and the closure of a cave by sealing the entrance with cement: Nutty Putty Cave.
John Edward Jones earned a Darwin Award for the Nutty Putty Cave accident.
Jeffrey Walton ( talk) 20:06, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
Are we sure that we want to include Spelunking in this article. It sounds dirty and dopey, maybe if we remove any mentions of it and just push on as cave exploring or something more PC more people might be into exploring caves. Spelunking sounds like something I would threaten to do to your sister if we were having an argument. e.g. I Spelunked your sister last night
Jeffrey Walton (
talk) 04:20, 26 Nov 2021 (UTC) — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
104.174.4.161 (
talk)
"The base term caving comes from the Latin cavea or caverna, meaning simply, a cave."
Does it really? Is it not simply taken directly from the English word "cave"? Proteus (Talk) 13:15, 11 June 2022 (UTC)