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From what edition is the text taken? There are huge textual issues over the "qualumcumque; quod, o patrona virgo"- check the critical apparatus in the editions. It might be mentioned as a source. Reynaert-ad 15:06, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
71.195.206.227 recently reverted a large number of my edits on this page; these edits are incorrect. Unfortunately this user is using an IP, not a username, so it is difficult to contact them. Hopefully, they will look here.
I have highlighted points that 71.195.206.227 appears to disagree with me over, and I will explain my decisions.
To whom do I give this new charming little book
Just now smoothed with dry pumice?
To you, Cornelius: For you were used to thinking
My trifles to amount to something,
For you alone dared to unravel
the entire history of the Italians in three scrolls,
learned, (by Jupiter!), and filled with labor.
Therefore have for yourself this something,
This little book, and whatever it is worth; and let it, oh patron maiden,
remain for more than one lasting age.
Hopefully, 71.195.206.227 will show up to respond to these arguments.-- WoodenTaco 18:41, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
I have removed the illustration from the article. The image, the author portrait from the Roman Vergil, is inappropriate for an article on a poem of Catullus, and the caption (A poem about a book of poems, given to a friend) is totally misleading. I have noticed that the Catullus template and most of the associated articles have inappropriate images. I have also noticed that several editors have mentioned that these images are both superfluous and unencyclopedic, yet the images remain. Perhaps it is time to revisit the topic. Aramgar ( talk) 21:23, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
I've just deleted the comment on the "italorum" in line 5. The comment said that "italorum" can be taken with "omne aevum." The "literal translation" and the English negenborn.net both take this reading as well. I find it very hard to swallow. Foremost is the fact that it is in the same line as "unus." I think the pull of the word order "unus italorum" is unavoidable. "Italorum/omne aevum" is difficult not merely because of the line break, but also because "omne aevum" is certainly a unit. From the workings of the poem, it seems to me that this is a hard reading. If this reading were supported by meaning as WoodenTaco suggests, it could be a possibility. But I think he certainly means "you who alone of the Italians dared to unfurl every age" rather than "you who alone dared to unfurl every age of the Italians." The crucial distinction here is: was Nepos unique in being a Roman writing in such a way or was Nepos unique in writing about Italy? We can quickly rule out the latter; Atticus, a friend of Nepos', wrote a Liber Annalis of Roman history. Furthermore it is hardly daring ("ausus es") to be a Roman writing on Rome. On the other hand, Nepos' Chronica, the "tricartite" work to which Catullus is referring, was unique in that it was the first Roman attempt at a comprehensive history; Nepos apparently had a Greek model (Apollodorus' Χρονικά), but it is always a major event when a Roman adapts a Greek tradition to Roman means (cf. Horace: "princeps Aeolium carmen ad Italos deduxisse modos"). Further reasons for the reading "unus Italorum" are given in compelling article by W. Marshall Johnstone, Jr. found here: [1]. So, for these reasons I've deleted the comment on "italorum," for I think the reading in the given translation is right. If someone wants to put it back, I think a discussion of both readings on the page itself would be necessary. 03:56, 20 December 2008 (UTC)Nathan —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.23.87.207 ( talk)
I offer my simple and admittedly crude transliteration. Perhaps an expert can elaborate. Personally, I feel the minimalist adn rather literal approach I have used (rather than interpret) the poem is satisfactorily true enough to the original meaning. Hope you enjoy. I am not a Latin nerd so please feel free to waffle on about grammatical minutiae- I will learn something. Starstylers ( talk) 20:59, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
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I love Catullus so I hate to be the one to do this, but I'm not sure this poem deserves its own article. If it does, then links to outside sources establishing its importance and influence are necessary. Finsternish ( talk) 21:18, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
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From what edition is the text taken? There are huge textual issues over the "qualumcumque; quod, o patrona virgo"- check the critical apparatus in the editions. It might be mentioned as a source. Reynaert-ad 15:06, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
71.195.206.227 recently reverted a large number of my edits on this page; these edits are incorrect. Unfortunately this user is using an IP, not a username, so it is difficult to contact them. Hopefully, they will look here.
I have highlighted points that 71.195.206.227 appears to disagree with me over, and I will explain my decisions.
To whom do I give this new charming little book
Just now smoothed with dry pumice?
To you, Cornelius: For you were used to thinking
My trifles to amount to something,
For you alone dared to unravel
the entire history of the Italians in three scrolls,
learned, (by Jupiter!), and filled with labor.
Therefore have for yourself this something,
This little book, and whatever it is worth; and let it, oh patron maiden,
remain for more than one lasting age.
Hopefully, 71.195.206.227 will show up to respond to these arguments.-- WoodenTaco 18:41, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
I have removed the illustration from the article. The image, the author portrait from the Roman Vergil, is inappropriate for an article on a poem of Catullus, and the caption (A poem about a book of poems, given to a friend) is totally misleading. I have noticed that the Catullus template and most of the associated articles have inappropriate images. I have also noticed that several editors have mentioned that these images are both superfluous and unencyclopedic, yet the images remain. Perhaps it is time to revisit the topic. Aramgar ( talk) 21:23, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
I've just deleted the comment on the "italorum" in line 5. The comment said that "italorum" can be taken with "omne aevum." The "literal translation" and the English negenborn.net both take this reading as well. I find it very hard to swallow. Foremost is the fact that it is in the same line as "unus." I think the pull of the word order "unus italorum" is unavoidable. "Italorum/omne aevum" is difficult not merely because of the line break, but also because "omne aevum" is certainly a unit. From the workings of the poem, it seems to me that this is a hard reading. If this reading were supported by meaning as WoodenTaco suggests, it could be a possibility. But I think he certainly means "you who alone of the Italians dared to unfurl every age" rather than "you who alone dared to unfurl every age of the Italians." The crucial distinction here is: was Nepos unique in being a Roman writing in such a way or was Nepos unique in writing about Italy? We can quickly rule out the latter; Atticus, a friend of Nepos', wrote a Liber Annalis of Roman history. Furthermore it is hardly daring ("ausus es") to be a Roman writing on Rome. On the other hand, Nepos' Chronica, the "tricartite" work to which Catullus is referring, was unique in that it was the first Roman attempt at a comprehensive history; Nepos apparently had a Greek model (Apollodorus' Χρονικά), but it is always a major event when a Roman adapts a Greek tradition to Roman means (cf. Horace: "princeps Aeolium carmen ad Italos deduxisse modos"). Further reasons for the reading "unus Italorum" are given in compelling article by W. Marshall Johnstone, Jr. found here: [1]. So, for these reasons I've deleted the comment on "italorum," for I think the reading in the given translation is right. If someone wants to put it back, I think a discussion of both readings on the page itself would be necessary. 03:56, 20 December 2008 (UTC)Nathan —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.23.87.207 ( talk)
I offer my simple and admittedly crude transliteration. Perhaps an expert can elaborate. Personally, I feel the minimalist adn rather literal approach I have used (rather than interpret) the poem is satisfactorily true enough to the original meaning. Hope you enjoy. I am not a Latin nerd so please feel free to waffle on about grammatical minutiae- I will learn something. Starstylers ( talk) 20:59, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Catullus 1. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 10:13, 1 August 2017 (UTC)
I love Catullus so I hate to be the one to do this, but I'm not sure this poem deserves its own article. If it does, then links to outside sources establishing its importance and influence are necessary. Finsternish ( talk) 21:18, 2 August 2018 (UTC)