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A fact from Catherine de Parthenay appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the Did you know column on 5 July 2023 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
Did you know... that Catherine de Parthenay(pictured), a 16th-century Huguenot leader, was a member of "a highly successful network of information" during the
French Wars of Religion?
Suspect this article is mid-high importance for WPWS as this reputation for brilliance probably originated from something significant, but my god it needs a tonne of work. Right now it talks mostly about her marriages - editors consider taking into account the
Finkbeiner test for writing biographies of women in science (and humanities) --
JBVaughan (
talk)
22:36, 1 January 2017 (UTC)reply
@
JBVaughan and
Kj cheetham:, This is an old post, but it's now a timely question. The article has been signifigantly expanded and I think that importance should be higher than low in this case. I added Kj cheetham because he recently rated the article and it would be good to get both of your opinions about the importance level... and anyone else that has an opinion.–
CaroleHenson (
talk)
01:34, 26 June 2023 (UTC)reply
CaroleHenson In this case I only rated the class, not the importance. My understanding was importance was assessed on a per-project basis, not simply per-article. The class rating reflects the current state of the article, but importance is the perceived importance to a project, which doesn't typically change unless the subject itself becomes more important somehow beyond Wikipedia. To quote
WP:BIOG/A for instance, the important rating is an "attempt to gauge the probability of the average reader of Wikipedia needing to look up the topic (and thus the immediate need to have a suitably well-written article on it)". -
Kj cheetham (
talk)
19:39, 27 June 2023 (UTC)reply
Kj cheetham, Ah, if it's based on readership, then right now the importance level should probably not be changed.
In expanding the article, though, it became clear that she was a significant force in France during her lifetime - and there are more articles that need to contain content about her.
I still have to add the content to other articles, including kings and queens, so that may drive readership up. It seems like it would be good to revisit importance in several months with the project(s).–
CaroleHenson (
talk)
19:53, 27 June 2023 (UTC)reply
Kj cheetham, I understand. What you said makes common sense to me. It wouldn't be a strong position to ask for an increase in importance right now. Thanks so much for your input.–
CaroleHenson (
talk)
20:03, 27 June 2023 (UTC)reply
Henri III
Hello again
CaroleHenson (
talk·contribs), as before a great appreciator of the work you're doing.
On this article I am a little confused by this section
"Her mother files a lawsuit against Quelennec before the court of Henry III of France and his mother Catherine de Medici. They took Quelennec's side, who had left for La Rochelle, but they would not have her detained. Aubeterre wrote to King Charles IX and the case went before the Grand Council on 11 September 1571,"
Henri III was not king until 1574, after Quelennec's death so I am a little puzzled why she was writing to his court in 1571. In 1571 he would have been the duke of Anjou, was she writing to him in that capacity?
sovietblobfish (
talk)
21:07, 23 June 2023 (UTC)reply
Sovietblobfish, I am so appreciative to have your knowledgeable and watchful eye!
I thought I said "future" for Henry III, but I just had it in the intro.
I wondered if "court" would be the right word, too. That's what is used in the source, but I shouldn't have used it. In that case, "lawsuit" doesn't make much sense. I made
these edits. How does that look?–
CaroleHenson (
talk)
21:19, 23 June 2023 (UTC)reply
Having now looked at the source, I think court is the right word, but the court it is referring to on page 206-207 is that of Charles IX. Her representatives are merely targeting the two strongest members of the immediate royal family (Catherine and Anjou) as opposed to the ineffectual Charles to push her position.
sovietblobfish (
talk)
21:32, 23 June 2023 (UTC)reply
Sovietblobfish I removed "lawsuit" and "court" and said that the mother was looking for guidance. For Charles, it's referred to as a "case". Does that work? Feel free to make edits that you think are right.
@
CaroleHenson: No worries, one final question before you take your well deserved break. This Castle in 'Breton'. Do you mean Bretagne? Or is there a specific town somewhere called Breton?
sovietblobfish (
talk)
21:45, 23 June 2023 (UTC)reply
Sovietblobfish I added the parenthetical
Brittany after the first use of Breton, which was what was used in the source.
Sovietblobfish, I have been adding some content that was cited in the
French article and have a couple of questions to run by you if you have the time.
I added the family tree that I had copied and modified from the article - feel free to move it toward the bottom of the article, like before references, or remove it entirely. I go back and forth about whether it's useful enough to take up territory on the page. (I was able to add the "hide" function, but could not find a "collapse" function.)
I wonder whether it's worth the effort to add content from the French article sections (titles from the English version of the page):
Matrimonial strategies
The King's Death
Resumption of hostilities
La Rochelle, prison and end - adding anything new to the Siege of La Rochelle and Death sections
I thought it would be nice to find English versions of her key letters and works and add the links to the {{External media}} template in the Activities in the service of the war section. I haven't had luck yet finding published English versions of her works or letters. Much of her writing is really meaningful. Do you have any thoughts about how I might search for that?
As far as family trees go, I'm fairly neutral. I know some editors like to remove them from biographies of this era. I personally leave them around if they're present but don't go out of my way to add them if they're not.
Personally I think there's a lot of good stuff in the 'La Rochelle, prison et fin' section, 'La mort du roi' seems a little light on content and heavy on extracts from her work. I wouldn't bother with that one. 'Stratégies matrimoniales' looks like another moderately worthy section, and 'Reprise des hostilités' is the most invaluable as it bridges the current gap in this article between the 16th century and 1628.
I doubt I'd have any more luck than you finding English versions of her works, however I see no harm in including the French versions :)
Personally, I would also group her political/military exploits together separate from her epistolary, literary and translation efforts. Currently the siege of La Rochelle is stranded on the other side of the information concerning her cultural pursuits.
I'd either put those before or after the main narrative of her life, but that might just be me.
In summary @
CaroleHenson: though, my thanks for salvaging this article from the poor state it was in. Some day, I will come through here to do some content editing myself, and see what my book collection can offer about her. For the moment I am occupied in a large biography article on my draftspace however. I suspect sadly I will not be able to contribute nearly as much as you have, but at least one of the 70 books next to me must have material about her :)
sovietblobfish, Thanks so much for the feedback. I will leave the family tree in the article and look at the sections you recommended for additional content and to reorganize. Or, perhaps I need a clearer section heading than "Activities in service of the war". Hmmm. I will get to some copyediting myself. Good luck on your biography!–
CaroleHenson (
talk)
21:44, 24 June 2023 (UTC)reply
I think that I solved the issue with the sections by renaming the subsections to Encrypted war correspondence and War-themed works.–
CaroleHenson (
talk)
02:50, 25 June 2023 (UTC)reply
Checklist
To keep things straight in my mind, I am starting a checklist here. If anyone wants to jump in with comments, suggestions, or help, that would be wonderful!
Family tree - I am keeping the section, but moved it to the bottom of the article. — Done for now. If anyone feels strongly that it's not needed, feel free to remove it. It was really easy to copy from the French article, so not a big deal at all.–
CaroleHenson (
talk)
05:52, 25 June 2023 (UTC)reply
Finish pulling info from subsections of the French article as recommended
'Reprise des hostilités' is the most invaluable as it bridges the current gap in this article between the 16th century and 1628 — Done–
CaroleHenson (
talk)
16:43, 25 June 2023 (UTC)reply
Not done for now, based on readership (see above). Check back after content about Catherine is added to additional articles and see if there's a pattern of increased readership.–
CaroleHenson (
talk)
19:57, 27 June 2023 (UTC)reply
Consider DYK if article is now expanded 5x - Consider GA (or vice versa)
It looks like it's eligible for a DYK. Per DYK eligibility scan "Assuming article is at 5x now, expansion began 133 edits ago on June 23, 2023"–
CaroleHenson (
talk)
01:30, 26 June 2023 (UTC)reply
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
this nomination's talk page,
the article's talk page or
Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
... that Catherine de Parthenay(pictured), a 16th-century Huguenot leader, sent encrypted messages to other leaders? Source: Boucher d'Argis, Bibliothèque nationale, manuscrits Dupuy, vol. 743, études postérieures à Viète mais non récentes No. 16 et 17.La Porte, Joseph de; La Croix, Jean François (1769).
Histoire littéraire des femmes françoises ou Lettres historiques et critiques (in French). Lacombe. p. 118.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women's History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Women's history and related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women's HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject Women's HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Women's HistoryWomen's History articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women scientists, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Women in science on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women scientistsWikipedia:WikiProject Women scientistsTemplate:WikiProject Women scientistsWomen scientists articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Mathematics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
mathematics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MathematicsWikipedia:WikiProject MathematicsTemplate:WikiProject Mathematicsmathematics articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject France, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
France on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FranceWikipedia:WikiProject FranceTemplate:WikiProject FranceFrance articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women writers, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
women writers on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women writersWikipedia:WikiProject Women writersTemplate:WikiProject Women writersWomen writers articles
A fact from Catherine de Parthenay appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the Did you know column on 5 July 2023 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
Did you know... that Catherine de Parthenay(pictured), a 16th-century Huguenot leader, was a member of "a highly successful network of information" during the
French Wars of Religion?
Suspect this article is mid-high importance for WPWS as this reputation for brilliance probably originated from something significant, but my god it needs a tonne of work. Right now it talks mostly about her marriages - editors consider taking into account the
Finkbeiner test for writing biographies of women in science (and humanities) --
JBVaughan (
talk)
22:36, 1 January 2017 (UTC)reply
@
JBVaughan and
Kj cheetham:, This is an old post, but it's now a timely question. The article has been signifigantly expanded and I think that importance should be higher than low in this case. I added Kj cheetham because he recently rated the article and it would be good to get both of your opinions about the importance level... and anyone else that has an opinion.–
CaroleHenson (
talk)
01:34, 26 June 2023 (UTC)reply
CaroleHenson In this case I only rated the class, not the importance. My understanding was importance was assessed on a per-project basis, not simply per-article. The class rating reflects the current state of the article, but importance is the perceived importance to a project, which doesn't typically change unless the subject itself becomes more important somehow beyond Wikipedia. To quote
WP:BIOG/A for instance, the important rating is an "attempt to gauge the probability of the average reader of Wikipedia needing to look up the topic (and thus the immediate need to have a suitably well-written article on it)". -
Kj cheetham (
talk)
19:39, 27 June 2023 (UTC)reply
Kj cheetham, Ah, if it's based on readership, then right now the importance level should probably not be changed.
In expanding the article, though, it became clear that she was a significant force in France during her lifetime - and there are more articles that need to contain content about her.
I still have to add the content to other articles, including kings and queens, so that may drive readership up. It seems like it would be good to revisit importance in several months with the project(s).–
CaroleHenson (
talk)
19:53, 27 June 2023 (UTC)reply
Kj cheetham, I understand. What you said makes common sense to me. It wouldn't be a strong position to ask for an increase in importance right now. Thanks so much for your input.–
CaroleHenson (
talk)
20:03, 27 June 2023 (UTC)reply
Henri III
Hello again
CaroleHenson (
talk·contribs), as before a great appreciator of the work you're doing.
On this article I am a little confused by this section
"Her mother files a lawsuit against Quelennec before the court of Henry III of France and his mother Catherine de Medici. They took Quelennec's side, who had left for La Rochelle, but they would not have her detained. Aubeterre wrote to King Charles IX and the case went before the Grand Council on 11 September 1571,"
Henri III was not king until 1574, after Quelennec's death so I am a little puzzled why she was writing to his court in 1571. In 1571 he would have been the duke of Anjou, was she writing to him in that capacity?
sovietblobfish (
talk)
21:07, 23 June 2023 (UTC)reply
Sovietblobfish, I am so appreciative to have your knowledgeable and watchful eye!
I thought I said "future" for Henry III, but I just had it in the intro.
I wondered if "court" would be the right word, too. That's what is used in the source, but I shouldn't have used it. In that case, "lawsuit" doesn't make much sense. I made
these edits. How does that look?–
CaroleHenson (
talk)
21:19, 23 June 2023 (UTC)reply
Having now looked at the source, I think court is the right word, but the court it is referring to on page 206-207 is that of Charles IX. Her representatives are merely targeting the two strongest members of the immediate royal family (Catherine and Anjou) as opposed to the ineffectual Charles to push her position.
sovietblobfish (
talk)
21:32, 23 June 2023 (UTC)reply
Sovietblobfish I removed "lawsuit" and "court" and said that the mother was looking for guidance. For Charles, it's referred to as a "case". Does that work? Feel free to make edits that you think are right.
@
CaroleHenson: No worries, one final question before you take your well deserved break. This Castle in 'Breton'. Do you mean Bretagne? Or is there a specific town somewhere called Breton?
sovietblobfish (
talk)
21:45, 23 June 2023 (UTC)reply
Sovietblobfish I added the parenthetical
Brittany after the first use of Breton, which was what was used in the source.
Sovietblobfish, I have been adding some content that was cited in the
French article and have a couple of questions to run by you if you have the time.
I added the family tree that I had copied and modified from the article - feel free to move it toward the bottom of the article, like before references, or remove it entirely. I go back and forth about whether it's useful enough to take up territory on the page. (I was able to add the "hide" function, but could not find a "collapse" function.)
I wonder whether it's worth the effort to add content from the French article sections (titles from the English version of the page):
Matrimonial strategies
The King's Death
Resumption of hostilities
La Rochelle, prison and end - adding anything new to the Siege of La Rochelle and Death sections
I thought it would be nice to find English versions of her key letters and works and add the links to the {{External media}} template in the Activities in the service of the war section. I haven't had luck yet finding published English versions of her works or letters. Much of her writing is really meaningful. Do you have any thoughts about how I might search for that?
As far as family trees go, I'm fairly neutral. I know some editors like to remove them from biographies of this era. I personally leave them around if they're present but don't go out of my way to add them if they're not.
Personally I think there's a lot of good stuff in the 'La Rochelle, prison et fin' section, 'La mort du roi' seems a little light on content and heavy on extracts from her work. I wouldn't bother with that one. 'Stratégies matrimoniales' looks like another moderately worthy section, and 'Reprise des hostilités' is the most invaluable as it bridges the current gap in this article between the 16th century and 1628.
I doubt I'd have any more luck than you finding English versions of her works, however I see no harm in including the French versions :)
Personally, I would also group her political/military exploits together separate from her epistolary, literary and translation efforts. Currently the siege of La Rochelle is stranded on the other side of the information concerning her cultural pursuits.
I'd either put those before or after the main narrative of her life, but that might just be me.
In summary @
CaroleHenson: though, my thanks for salvaging this article from the poor state it was in. Some day, I will come through here to do some content editing myself, and see what my book collection can offer about her. For the moment I am occupied in a large biography article on my draftspace however. I suspect sadly I will not be able to contribute nearly as much as you have, but at least one of the 70 books next to me must have material about her :)
sovietblobfish, Thanks so much for the feedback. I will leave the family tree in the article and look at the sections you recommended for additional content and to reorganize. Or, perhaps I need a clearer section heading than "Activities in service of the war". Hmmm. I will get to some copyediting myself. Good luck on your biography!–
CaroleHenson (
talk)
21:44, 24 June 2023 (UTC)reply
I think that I solved the issue with the sections by renaming the subsections to Encrypted war correspondence and War-themed works.–
CaroleHenson (
talk)
02:50, 25 June 2023 (UTC)reply
Checklist
To keep things straight in my mind, I am starting a checklist here. If anyone wants to jump in with comments, suggestions, or help, that would be wonderful!
Family tree - I am keeping the section, but moved it to the bottom of the article. — Done for now. If anyone feels strongly that it's not needed, feel free to remove it. It was really easy to copy from the French article, so not a big deal at all.–
CaroleHenson (
talk)
05:52, 25 June 2023 (UTC)reply
Finish pulling info from subsections of the French article as recommended
'Reprise des hostilités' is the most invaluable as it bridges the current gap in this article between the 16th century and 1628 — Done–
CaroleHenson (
talk)
16:43, 25 June 2023 (UTC)reply
Not done for now, based on readership (see above). Check back after content about Catherine is added to additional articles and see if there's a pattern of increased readership.–
CaroleHenson (
talk)
19:57, 27 June 2023 (UTC)reply
Consider DYK if article is now expanded 5x - Consider GA (or vice versa)
It looks like it's eligible for a DYK. Per DYK eligibility scan "Assuming article is at 5x now, expansion began 133 edits ago on June 23, 2023"–
CaroleHenson (
talk)
01:30, 26 June 2023 (UTC)reply
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
this nomination's talk page,
the article's talk page or
Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
... that Catherine de Parthenay(pictured), a 16th-century Huguenot leader, sent encrypted messages to other leaders? Source: Boucher d'Argis, Bibliothèque nationale, manuscrits Dupuy, vol. 743, études postérieures à Viète mais non récentes No. 16 et 17.La Porte, Joseph de; La Croix, Jean François (1769).
Histoire littéraire des femmes françoises ou Lettres historiques et critiques (in French). Lacombe. p. 118.