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Not at all true. There was never any attempt by UCCLA to request a Holodomor gallery equal to the one for the Holocaust. No community's suffering should be elevated above all others in a taxpayer funded national museum. All of its galleries should be thematic, comparative and inclusive in content. That is what UCCLA has repeatedly said. Ms Chatterley mendaciously misrepresented our positions, repeatedly. She is entitled to her opinions, of course, but how that constitutes a biographical detail is debatable, particularly since she misrepresented our postcard campaign - the fact is that a majority of Canadians (over 60%) do not support the CMHR's allocation of preferential, permanent and privileged space to one community above all others, a fact that the CMHR's boosters find hard to cope with, save by name-callng. The postcard, by the way, was never withdrawn, so much for that allegation, and anyone who actually looks at the card, in toto, instead of cut & pasting portions of it in order to create a straw-man, will see that its point was to say simply that we object (see above) to ANY group (including our own) having its suffering elevated above all others, that we object to the balderdash that "all galleries are equal but some are more equal than others" and that we will not be bullied by name callers into silence. See the recent article by Dirk Moses in the Journal of Genocide Research for a trenchant analysis of the many failings of the CMHR, intellectually and in reality (he makes a few minor errors in fact, and one might argue in interpretation but these aren't really in reference to the points above). As for both sides being heard - we never indulged in ad hominem attacks, we never questioned the ethics or common sense of our opponents, we never called them Ukrainophobes; we just pointed out that we object, and still do, to a publicly funded national institution promoting one interpretation of history based on a debatable understanding of the human rights story.
Whether someone merits inclusion on Wikipedia is worth discussion; what is offensive about this entry are Ms Chaterley's misrepresentations about the legitimate objections many Canadians have tabled about the nature and contents of the taxpayer funded Canadian Museum for Human Rights. She is entitled to her opinions, however odious some may find them; she is not entitled to include such matter in what purports to be a biographical note. Her efforts to spread her views should be confined to her blog or "institute" (sic) - since they are often inaccurate, off point and mendacious and target other people and organizations they do not belong on Wikipedia, especially hidden in a biographical note. Polemics don't constitute fair content. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.193.142.54 ( talk) 17:26, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
Sticking the Holodomor into a "Mass Atrocity" gallery (with the 4 other genocides recognized officially by the Government of Canada, one of them the Shoah) would be fine if there wasn't another, separate, central, permanent, and privileged CMHR gallery space dedicated to elevating the suffering of one community above all others. Why can't a single CMHR gallery be dedicated to the concept of 'genocide' to therefore include the Shoah, Holodomor, the Armenian Genocide etc...why should one group be afforded pride of place in a taxpayer funded national museum, especially when a majority of Canadians object to any such preferential treatment?
The distinguished Holocaust scholar, Professor Michael Marrus, has challenged the ahistorical notion that the modern human rights story somehow began as a consequence of the Shoah; the Universal Declaration of Human Rights certainly was not simply an outgrowth of the understandable disgust that the civilized world came to share when the atrocities that befell the Jewish people (religious and otherwise) during the Second World War came to be better understood. Most certainly, human rights issues were already on the international agenda well before then, especially after the First World War at the League of Nations (ever heard of the Nansen Passport?). Even the father of the UN Genocide Convention, Dr Raphael Lemkin, objected that the Declaration, however admirable for its sentiments, was toothless. Saying that the Declaration was a result of the Shoah is not true and repeating that fiction won't change that fact.
The CHMR spokespeople have a deserved reputation for never answering a straight question with a straight answer. They continue to spin their replies on what the CMHR will include. See the article by Professor Dirk Moses in the Journal of Genocide Studies.
In discussing this so-called "biographical" entry we should be asking ourselves if obviously contentious and partisan views merit inclusion in what should be a simple biographical entry on who Ms Chaterley is, what she has written, where she teaches and the like. Giving online space to polemics, based on what we contend are inaccurate and provocative misrepresentations about what a legitimate Canadian Ukrainian organization has done or said, remains objectionable. Nothing of the sort would ever be countenanced in any real encyclopedia. That is precisely why Wikipedia continues to fall short of being credible. It's not really edited.
No one said you were connected to the CMHR. That said your editorial skills leave much to be desired: clearly you were sloppy for not knowing the difference between the UCC and UCCLA, which you admitted. As for the issues surrounding the CMHR you are likewise misinformed or negligent, i.e. you wrote that the postcard was withdrawn, which it wasn't. Where did you get that little tidbit of information?
Since employees of the CMHR of "Friends of the CMHR" have obviously been editing that entry perhaps you can send them a note about "conflict of interest" as well.
A biographical entry is not the place for a description of a controversy, particularly when the latter was very much a problem fabricated by a person intent on misrepresenting the views of a legitimate Ukrainian Canadian organization. We are talking about the CC biographical entry, not the CMHR one (which is likewise biased in favour of the CMHR). A biographical entry may well describe an author's concerns or the issues that they have addressed but elaborating and peppering that kind of entry with falsehoods is hardly credible. As for the "reliable outside sources" being cited I would suggest that most are far from.
Conversation closed - your partiality only reconfirms why Wikipedia remains a very unreliable product. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.193.142.54 ( talk) 12:02, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
It's pretty obvious that this article was penned by Ms. Chatterley herself in an attempt to make herself more relevant than what she actually is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.129.178.44 ( talk) 21:24, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
I see the advertising fluff was added back with a rude note about me... lovely. Please remove it and find proper sourcing. -- Errant ( chat!) 21:27, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
Also; what does The president of the University of Winnipeg, Lloyd Axworthy, also addressed the one-sidedness of IAW, by ensuring that during the first appearance of IAW at that university campus, both sides of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict and of wider Middle East issues could be presented and debated in a series of dialogues and talks organized by the university administration. have to do with Chatterly's biography? That is content about IAW -- Errant ( chat!) 13:04, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
I fail to see the point in the last section. Another sentence or two describing subjects she often deals with would make sense, but a long section with long qoutes seems to be there simply to promote viewpoints. Beach drifter ( talk) 17:18, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
Is this matter now resolved given the fact that there is no further discussion for over one year? This individual clearly exceeds the requirements for notability, the entry has been edited and augmented by a variety of editors, and the initial complaint seems to be related to someone who is angry about the new museum in Winnipeg, which is only one thread of the content on the original page. Also, I wonder if Wikipedia should allow someone to accuse the subject of the page with misrepresentation (especially when other editors clearly see that this is false) when that could be construed as libelous and in violation of Wikipedia terms. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.45.18.194 ( talk) 14:43, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
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Not at all true. There was never any attempt by UCCLA to request a Holodomor gallery equal to the one for the Holocaust. No community's suffering should be elevated above all others in a taxpayer funded national museum. All of its galleries should be thematic, comparative and inclusive in content. That is what UCCLA has repeatedly said. Ms Chatterley mendaciously misrepresented our positions, repeatedly. She is entitled to her opinions, of course, but how that constitutes a biographical detail is debatable, particularly since she misrepresented our postcard campaign - the fact is that a majority of Canadians (over 60%) do not support the CMHR's allocation of preferential, permanent and privileged space to one community above all others, a fact that the CMHR's boosters find hard to cope with, save by name-callng. The postcard, by the way, was never withdrawn, so much for that allegation, and anyone who actually looks at the card, in toto, instead of cut & pasting portions of it in order to create a straw-man, will see that its point was to say simply that we object (see above) to ANY group (including our own) having its suffering elevated above all others, that we object to the balderdash that "all galleries are equal but some are more equal than others" and that we will not be bullied by name callers into silence. See the recent article by Dirk Moses in the Journal of Genocide Research for a trenchant analysis of the many failings of the CMHR, intellectually and in reality (he makes a few minor errors in fact, and one might argue in interpretation but these aren't really in reference to the points above). As for both sides being heard - we never indulged in ad hominem attacks, we never questioned the ethics or common sense of our opponents, we never called them Ukrainophobes; we just pointed out that we object, and still do, to a publicly funded national institution promoting one interpretation of history based on a debatable understanding of the human rights story.
Whether someone merits inclusion on Wikipedia is worth discussion; what is offensive about this entry are Ms Chaterley's misrepresentations about the legitimate objections many Canadians have tabled about the nature and contents of the taxpayer funded Canadian Museum for Human Rights. She is entitled to her opinions, however odious some may find them; she is not entitled to include such matter in what purports to be a biographical note. Her efforts to spread her views should be confined to her blog or "institute" (sic) - since they are often inaccurate, off point and mendacious and target other people and organizations they do not belong on Wikipedia, especially hidden in a biographical note. Polemics don't constitute fair content. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.193.142.54 ( talk) 17:26, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
Sticking the Holodomor into a "Mass Atrocity" gallery (with the 4 other genocides recognized officially by the Government of Canada, one of them the Shoah) would be fine if there wasn't another, separate, central, permanent, and privileged CMHR gallery space dedicated to elevating the suffering of one community above all others. Why can't a single CMHR gallery be dedicated to the concept of 'genocide' to therefore include the Shoah, Holodomor, the Armenian Genocide etc...why should one group be afforded pride of place in a taxpayer funded national museum, especially when a majority of Canadians object to any such preferential treatment?
The distinguished Holocaust scholar, Professor Michael Marrus, has challenged the ahistorical notion that the modern human rights story somehow began as a consequence of the Shoah; the Universal Declaration of Human Rights certainly was not simply an outgrowth of the understandable disgust that the civilized world came to share when the atrocities that befell the Jewish people (religious and otherwise) during the Second World War came to be better understood. Most certainly, human rights issues were already on the international agenda well before then, especially after the First World War at the League of Nations (ever heard of the Nansen Passport?). Even the father of the UN Genocide Convention, Dr Raphael Lemkin, objected that the Declaration, however admirable for its sentiments, was toothless. Saying that the Declaration was a result of the Shoah is not true and repeating that fiction won't change that fact.
The CHMR spokespeople have a deserved reputation for never answering a straight question with a straight answer. They continue to spin their replies on what the CMHR will include. See the article by Professor Dirk Moses in the Journal of Genocide Studies.
In discussing this so-called "biographical" entry we should be asking ourselves if obviously contentious and partisan views merit inclusion in what should be a simple biographical entry on who Ms Chaterley is, what she has written, where she teaches and the like. Giving online space to polemics, based on what we contend are inaccurate and provocative misrepresentations about what a legitimate Canadian Ukrainian organization has done or said, remains objectionable. Nothing of the sort would ever be countenanced in any real encyclopedia. That is precisely why Wikipedia continues to fall short of being credible. It's not really edited.
No one said you were connected to the CMHR. That said your editorial skills leave much to be desired: clearly you were sloppy for not knowing the difference between the UCC and UCCLA, which you admitted. As for the issues surrounding the CMHR you are likewise misinformed or negligent, i.e. you wrote that the postcard was withdrawn, which it wasn't. Where did you get that little tidbit of information?
Since employees of the CMHR of "Friends of the CMHR" have obviously been editing that entry perhaps you can send them a note about "conflict of interest" as well.
A biographical entry is not the place for a description of a controversy, particularly when the latter was very much a problem fabricated by a person intent on misrepresenting the views of a legitimate Ukrainian Canadian organization. We are talking about the CC biographical entry, not the CMHR one (which is likewise biased in favour of the CMHR). A biographical entry may well describe an author's concerns or the issues that they have addressed but elaborating and peppering that kind of entry with falsehoods is hardly credible. As for the "reliable outside sources" being cited I would suggest that most are far from.
Conversation closed - your partiality only reconfirms why Wikipedia remains a very unreliable product. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.193.142.54 ( talk) 12:02, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
It's pretty obvious that this article was penned by Ms. Chatterley herself in an attempt to make herself more relevant than what she actually is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.129.178.44 ( talk) 21:24, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
I see the advertising fluff was added back with a rude note about me... lovely. Please remove it and find proper sourcing. -- Errant ( chat!) 21:27, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
Also; what does The president of the University of Winnipeg, Lloyd Axworthy, also addressed the one-sidedness of IAW, by ensuring that during the first appearance of IAW at that university campus, both sides of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict and of wider Middle East issues could be presented and debated in a series of dialogues and talks organized by the university administration. have to do with Chatterly's biography? That is content about IAW -- Errant ( chat!) 13:04, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
I fail to see the point in the last section. Another sentence or two describing subjects she often deals with would make sense, but a long section with long qoutes seems to be there simply to promote viewpoints. Beach drifter ( talk) 17:18, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
Is this matter now resolved given the fact that there is no further discussion for over one year? This individual clearly exceeds the requirements for notability, the entry has been edited and augmented by a variety of editors, and the initial complaint seems to be related to someone who is angry about the new museum in Winnipeg, which is only one thread of the content on the original page. Also, I wonder if Wikipedia should allow someone to accuse the subject of the page with misrepresentation (especially when other editors clearly see that this is false) when that could be construed as libelous and in violation of Wikipedia terms. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.45.18.194 ( talk) 14:43, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
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